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Author Topic: Harry Potter  (Read 32554 times)

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KittKat

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2007, 08:25:38 PM »

what's camp?


camp, as in, 10 year old kids in the middle of nowhere singing songs, eating sloppy joes, and going for kayak adventures?

Marie, marry me, kk?

And yes. That's exactly what camp is :)

What is the big deal?  As Stephen King once noted, the Harry Potter books "are pure story."  And the story is good  and gets better the further you read, and in fact, becomes less and less a children's story and more complex.

That's EXACTLY the reason why I think they are garbage.

Now, I don't know about anyone else here---although, I may be able to guess which way the crowd in this thread leans---but I prefer stories (books, movies, television, etc.) that are character driven as opposed to plot driven. As I've learned in my personal experience and by what a great deal of my writing teachers have said, stories based purely in plot use gimmicks and twists in attempt to mask poor writing. These types of stories lack depth, meaning, and  tangible human interplay. Think of a plot driven movie---one with lots of secret spies and explosions and conspiracy theories---versus a movie where the outcome is driven entirely by the characters---how their personalities and tastes fuel their motivations and the paths they choose, how the relationships between several characters make you uncomfortable because they embody your quirks and foibles.

I know I will get the backlash from Potterfanzzz, but let me explain.

Harry Potter never fuels his outcome. Rather, it is mandated from the beginning of his journey, from the underbelly of the seedy magical world he occupies. The world around Harry Potter is not a product of his person; he is, instead, a product of his surroundings and the events which take place in his vicinity. The people he meets are never by chance; they come to him through carefully calculated plot devices and neccesities---not unlike, say, James Bond needing Q for special gadgets. The depths which the Potter series reach never push further than very superficial, contrived themes and symbols, the lot of which are standard hat from very plot-based storytelling---good vs. evil, destiny, trying to outrun fate, etc. Rarely does Rowling attempt to push beyond such overused themes to try and explore the territory of real human interaction, of pushing the limits of her characters, of trying to incorporate more complex ideas into her arsenal of cliched morals. The characters of "Harry Potter" are---dare I say?---static and flat, changing with the regularity of stone. Their transformations---if they arguably occur at all---are only slightly noticible at best. Sure, Harry Potter grows older, but does he ever outtrun his stubborn nature, his need to be the center of attention, his desire to alter or discover his fate? Truly great characters change. They grow wiser with time, they grow intellectually, morally, emotionally to ultimately bring about a radical change in their persona by time's end. As far as I know about the last six books in the Potter series (through my reading of 1-4 and my sister constantly telling me about 5 and 6) I can tell that little about Harry and Co. has changed. Everyone is still ESSENTIALLY the same as they were upon boarding the train to Hogwarts in book one. (Notice that I said "essentially"; there was MINIMAL change, but none which rivals the change in character-based stories.)

I openly admit to being a pretentious person, and I am perfectly okay with this fact. Lots of people I know hate this quality about me, but whatever. It's a part of who I am. And honestly? People should have more discriminatory tastes instead of following the bandwagon.

Please, bring on the hate. I like this.
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my_bad_habit08

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #91 on: July 22, 2007, 08:48:43 PM »

I don't know why people would hate you for your opinion. It's true that the characters don't really change, and the theme is used a lot, but a lot of people like to read for entertainment; if you want to read something with more depth, then do so.  Let people waste their time reading "cliche" books, or whatever, if they want to...
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caddy

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #92 on: July 22, 2007, 09:02:56 PM »

ahh, the death of Hedwig, that stupid owl-thing of Harry's. i kinda wanna read the book just to be mean.

and the language and other crap may evolve, but still...it's a children's book. i see 30 somethings reading this swill on the bus, and i'm just like...ugh. yet another distraction from the issues within our own society. no wonder we voted in Bush. EVERYBODY WAS BUSY READING ABOUT HARRY MASTURBATING MALFOY.
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caddy

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #93 on: July 22, 2007, 09:04:03 PM »

I started by reading the chapter titles and that intrigued me.

From there I was quite pleased by the passages from Aeschylus’ The Libation Bearers and William Penn’s More Fruits of Solitude.

I also got a notebook to take notes of my impressions:

Is anyone surprised that Lucius would have a white peacock roaming around his manor?

At the Malfoy Manor, when everyone was gathered around the table, I read the word ‘Illumination’ as ‘Illuminati’.

I find it interesting that Snape was seated at Voldemort’s right. The phrase, “it is better to rule at the right hand of the devil” so on and so forth came to mind.

I really liked this line on page 7: “I have been careless, and so have been thwarted by luck and chance, those wreckers of all but the best-laid plants.”

Voldemort compared his wand’s length to Lucius’ on page 8 – yes, I giggled like a maniac. Voldemort completely pwned his ass, if you know what I mean. ^_~ I rather liked it.

I found it interesting that the first glimpse of Harry we see in this book, he cuts his hand on that piece of mirror from Sirius. Almost as if the pain, the spilling of blood, is a reminder of past hurts and deaths. However, the scene was written so awkwardly with the broken teacup that I wondered what in the nine hells Harry cut himself on.

Rita Skeeter = ACK!!!! -_- All the mention of her was really unnecessary.

Awwww!!!!!!! - Dudley!!!!

Hedwig!!! Noooooo!!!!

That entire sequence in the sky with the motor bike, skeletal creatures, and brooms was rather thrilling. I think I nearly dropped the book when Hagrid fell.

I was amused at George’s sense of humor after having his ear ripped off. Saintlike and holey *snerk*. It was funny the first time, didn’t need it repeated.

And Mad Eye!!!!! NO!! I felt this was rather abrupt and though I was saddened that he was gone…I don’t know. To use Rowling’s word, it was a bit ‘perfunctory.’

I was hit harder when Hedwig died (that bird stuck with Harry). Later though when Harry got Mad Eye’s eye out of the ministry and buried it somewhere proper, I appreciated that.

Fleur talking - *twitch*

I was intrigued by Harry’s wand seemingly acting on its own accord.

The hints of the wand makers, such as Ollivander and Harry seeing them through Voldemort’s eyes was interesting. Though, there were an awful lot of those scenes…

I liked the line on page 95: “I forgot we’ll be hunting down Voldemort in a mobile library.”

I liked that Hermione and Ron took measures to protect their families (I rather like Hermione’s tecnhnique).

I liked Ron’s birthday present to Harry on page 113, the 12 Fail-safe Ways to Charm Witches. Fred and George are so thoughtful to recommend books. I like the way Ron also said, “You’d be surprised. It’s not all about wandwork either.”

*yes, is bad* *thought about masturbation and erm…other things*

This line on page 118 had me burst out laughing: “It provided a distraction, watching Mrs. Weasley force Charlie into a chair, raise her wand threateningly, and announce that he was about to get a proper haircut.”

Poor Lupin was all moody. Then again….he had good reason. ^^;;;;;

Anyway, Lupin OOC (out-of-character in most of this book).

…Norberta. *giggles* Glad to hear the dragon’s doing well.

Dumbledore’s Will was interesting.

Xenophilius Lovegood when you first meet him wasn’t as ‘out there’ as I expected. Luna I loved – especially with the gnome bite. Though sucking on her finger dreamily afterwards made me go, lol! & bwuh???

Okay, the story of Uncle Bilius Weasley pulling flowers out of his *ahem* at parties was amusing.

When Luna danced, I had the song “Dancing with myself” stuck in my head.

Bill and Fleur’s wedding, the description of it on 145 after their vows were made had me cracking up! Especially at the mention of Birds of Paradise!!! Bwhuahahaha!!! If there were some wizarding birds – those would certainly be it! Have you SEEN their mating rituals and habits??? 0_0 *giggles* But the descriptions of everything kind of made me twitch.

Auntie Muriel - *twitch* Effective, but *twitch*

I found it interesting that a Patronus charm can be used to deliver messages.

On page 180 I rather enjoyed the letter to Sirius (Padfoot) from Lily.

Muggle-born Registration on page 205. *twitch* That’s where I just KNEW it was gonna get bad!!

Reminds me of what preceded such acts as the Holocaust (not of pure Aryan blood in the case of the Nazis) and a bit of the Japanese Internment camps in the U.S., with the registration of those different heritages.

Page 212 – Tonks Pregnant. 0_0 (Poor Remus, SiriusxRemus OTP!! Yeah yeah, I know…I’ll be quiet now).

Ack!!!! Umbridge!!! *TWITCH* It just figures that SHE would have the locket!!! And her being the Head of the Muggle-Born registration commission – YIKES!!

Snape as head master – go Snape!! I mean, ‘uh oh.’

*was amused at the German language in the book*

On page 252, on Harry’s UNDESIRABLE NO. 1 poster at the ministry, “A little pink note was stuck to it with a picture of a kitten in the corner. Harry moved across to read it and saw that Umbridge had written, “To be punished.”

That made me shudder!!!

Awww!!! Kreacher!!!! I like the frying pan part with Mundungus. Tee hee.

On page 344, I found it interesting to see Voldemort’s POV of the night Harry’s parents died.

*random* SNAKE!

Broken wand…pity.

Ack, Ron! But then, yay!

Gods the amount of being pissy and angst angst angst in the book.

The symbol of the Deathly Hallows, the meaning of it especially reminds me of the swastika, how that particular symbol actually means something different being that it is originally a Tibetan/Indian symbol. It was taken and twisted.

On page 415, I was amused by “Wands are only as powerful as the wizards who use them. Some wizards just like to boast that theirs are bigger and better than other people’s.”

I completely twisted You-Know-Who’s line….into a Whose Line is it Anyway? Harry Potter Improv cast.

The radio program, while amusing, seemed awfully convenient. *snicker* Rapier.

Dobby!!! But…he’s not annoying! Yay! *STABBITY STAB* Oh bloody hell, just when I may have started liking him. Ah well. DOBBY’S DEAD!!! (thank gods)

Harry is the godfather of Ted Lupin, named after Teddy Tonks (don’t both of them sound like a marketable teddy bear or plushie line that changes fur color or something??)

Aberforth!!!! Well, there’s a surprise. Figured blue eyes was of the Dumbledore line or Frank Sinatra.

The last sequences at Hogwarts = ROCKS FALL EVERYBODY DIES!!

Okay okay, so things were getting blown up and rocks fell, but not everyone died.

Poor Fred, Remus, and Tonks!!!! WTF?? It happened so suddenly. Fred! (R.I.P. PG 637) *wails* “ghost of his last laugh still etched on his face.” That line could have been utilized so much better.

Remus!! (pg 661) Just figured Ted Lupin would end up an orphan. What’s up with dudes with black hair ending up as godfathers over orphans?

McGonnigal rocks my world!!! Go her, Flitwick, and Sprout!

As an aside, I like the Ravenclaw’s method of entering their common room, via a riddle and not a password. ^__^

Harry & Draco on a broom. The room with the flames on the search for the Ravenclaw diadem was intriguing, a bit too convenient, but intriguing.

Bye bye Crabbe.

Trelawney with her crystal balls was amusing.

SNAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He really was good!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him. I KNEW IT! Then again, his death was not unexpected. Intriguing way that he had to go though in Voldy’s mindset. Snape’s patronus was a silver doe. ^___^

(awww!!! To little Lily and Severus)

Lucius was a Prefect when Snape entered Hogwarts – interesting.

…figured Harry was a Horcrux.

Harry accepting Death was an interesting concept. That little talk with Dumbledore and the history behind his family dragged on a lot longer than it should have. 0_0

Go Neville with the sword! He rocks toward the end!

Mrs. Weasley swore!!!! 0_0

HP vs. Voldemort = Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny , playing in my head

Figured Voldemort would get a rebounded spell.

I like that Harry repaired his wand with the Elder Wand.

The epilogue = fanfiction.

Harry x Ginny, Hermione x Ron – makes them around 36ish years old.

Come on: Albus Severus Potter -_-;; the only boy with Harry’s eyes *falls over*

And the names!!! Scorpius Malfoy?? James and Lily? (big surprise) Hugo and Rose.

Professor Longbottom – ^___^ (of course, little mention of anyone else).

The ending seemed rushed. There were some good action sequences and some climactic scenes, but everything seemed rushed in some parts while others dragged on.

I also counted up how many characters make an appearance/you have to keep track of approximately 120. In THIS BOOK ALONE. It’s ALL the characters had to come back and that are added in this book. 0_0 I’m sure there are more too...

Mind you, this is not counting random Ministry peons, other Hogwarts students, Deatheaters, and a host of others (I counted the important animals and people in flashbacks).

No wonder my brain hurts!!!!!
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my_bad_habit08

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #94 on: July 22, 2007, 09:25:58 PM »

Come on people! We won't condemn you for hating Harry, just as you should not condemn us for liking it. It is all good. Just let people live the life they want to. i know dressing up is stupid, but who will judge us, not I.

What about Lord of the Rings? That is not a children's book, yet it drove people to obsessive behaviors, and people take their kids to see it, and that is not right. What are you going to do? Be happy, and stop getting yourselves all worked up.  :happy11:

I agree with you completely!
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Jarboe

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2007, 09:32:54 PM »

I really think that by the 5th book it is, indeed, character driven. Sigh.
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caddy

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2007, 09:34:49 PM »

Come on people! We won't condemn you for hating Harry, just as you should not condemn us for liking it. It is all good. Just let people live the life they want to. i know dressing up is stupid, but who will judge us, not I.

What about Lord of the Rings? That is not a children's book, yet it drove people to obsessive behaviors, and people take their kids to see it, and that is not right. What are you going to do? Be happy, and stop getting yourselves all worked up.  :happy11:

I agree with you completely!

LotR spawned idiots. fanfic writing, emo-Trekkie, Star Wars obsessed idiots. there are some redeemable personalities that digested LotR with a positive outlook, and those people didn't shit themselves for the rest of their lives in obsession. they enjoyed it, and moved on. what a concept.
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Not a frog

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2007, 10:15:43 PM »

As Jarboe said, it becomes more character-driven in the later books, but yes, Polly, the series does feed on plot mechanics to push it through, which is not a characteristic of great literature.  You're spot-on.  But no one confuses Harry Potter with great literature and no one is reading Harry Potter to educate themselves.  Harry Potter is, more than anything else, fun.  It's imaginative, suspenseful, and quick, and for better or worse, it breaks every writing rule in the book  - many of the transgressions I find rather annoying myself.  The story, however, makes me all but forgive Rowling's writing technique and some days it's quite nice to take a break from things like Proust or Oates or  Rushdie and submerse oneself in such a book for a bit. 

One can have discriminating tastes and still enjoy a little sugar once in a while.


And I don't mean to disappoint you but I don't think what you said is particularly pretentious, and, by the way, no one is hating.

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caddy

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2007, 11:59:02 PM »

i'm hating!

>_>'

i'm hating Harry Potter with a livelihood paralleled only by that of men during their mid-life crisis! <3
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largebadgers

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #99 on: July 23, 2007, 12:38:21 AM »

I just finished the book and I'm pleased with it.
That is all.
Carry on.
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Hobbes

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #100 on: July 23, 2007, 02:27:46 AM »

Harry Potter is for wuzzies.


No no - he's not, but I just learned that lovely word, and this seemed the first appropriate place to use it. Feel free to gnore me.  :)
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Niels

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #101 on: July 23, 2007, 03:11:00 AM »

If people don't like this book, that's perfectly fine (if everyone had the same tastes, I think I'd die of boredom) but people saying they 'hate' it, or think it's horrible, that's a bit sad... just say you don't like it and move on, don't stay and annoy those who do like it. that just makes you look a lot more childish than those who actually read the books.

Katrina, I really respect your opinion. But I also think you should try to state it as your opinion, instead of fact. this is the only thing that makes you sound pretentious. And sure, character-driven great literature can be amazing too, but I personally like a bit of a balance. And the only thing I can't figure out about you, is if your opinions are the way they are because you actually like that kind of literature, or if you think that's the cool and smart thing to say.

one last thing, whatever you might have to say about Rowling and her books, one think you can't deny: she has more money than any of you will. probably ever have.
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caddy

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #102 on: July 23, 2007, 03:17:04 AM »

nah, i'm not childish. i just know what i like, and wish would die. i work right next to Barnes and Noble, in a kid-friendly mall, with lots of customers/idiots roaming around. i've come to a boiling point where i just hate the damn trend with a fiery passion, and wish people would choke on the pages of their books.

it's not sad, it's my opinion, and forums are made for opinions. i hate the books. if these people don't want someone like me issuing my opinions, they shouldn't create topics of this nature.

oops, oh well. <3
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$ethie

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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #103 on: July 23, 2007, 03:42:38 AM »

With all the harry potter obsessiveness here and there, I feel the need to state my opinion on the matter:

I would buy one of these books only if there was a severe shortage of toilet paper.

that is all.
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Re: Harry Potter
« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2007, 04:15:56 AM »

I've been reading since the first came out, and I've read each in a matter of 24 hours since starting it each time. Loved, loved, loved the seventh, even in the slow parts. I've had a fascination with Rowling's storytelling ability, the way in which she can reveal things and force you to believe one thing before throwing another down your throat.

I think the story ended perfectly, though, I could've used for a few more people dying, preferably not Lupin. I loved that guy.
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