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Author Topic: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?  (Read 6908 times)

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Morpheus Laughing

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Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« on: November 23, 2009, 09:41:36 AM »

The University of Oxford’s George McGavin suggests the disappearance of bees poses a greater threat to humanity than a global warming.

In summary: Bee’s pollinate the majority of flowering plants. About ¾ of the 80 major food-crops are pollinated by bees.

Habitat loss and pesticides are contributing to a massive reduction of the bee population. 80 of the most commonly used pesticides are highly toxic to bees. Bee populations are shrinking in all countries and compared to 50 years ago there has been a 30% - 50% decline globally. In some places, people have to manually fertilise plants with paintbrushes because bee numbers are so low.

If things continue to develop as they have been, in 50 years, bee numbers will be so low that there will be a serious decline in flowering plants, which will result in food shortage and pestilence.

Any thoughts? Do you think people will start keeping bees in their gardens?  Are we Screwed?
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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 03:13:10 PM »

According to Doctor Who it is a very bad sign.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 05:16:07 PM »

Old news.....

Hive collapse is caused by mites and a mite-transmitted bug, and it seems to affect mostly
commercial hives.....  Still a problem, but probably not the end of the world as we know it...

...and I feel fiiiiine...  ;D



(Oh, and yes, if you have a garden, you should totally get a hive or two.)
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 07:04:53 PM »

Fair enough...

I’ve heard bits about it before but sometimes things move on from there or get forgotten. I wasn’t sure if the return of interest towards bee population decline meant that the problem had upped a notch. Global warming, for instance, suddenly became important after years of being sidelined. 

The Varroa mite: I’ve had a look into it... The UK doesn’t have a substantial commercial beekeeping sector and depends mostly on Amateur enthusiasts. Year on year collapses in the colonies (caused by varroa and other ailments) are currently too fierce for bee populations to recover from:

“Given the honey bee’s dependence on beekeepers for their survival there are few if any wild honey bee colonies left, due to the ravages of varroa and the inability of beekeepers to treat feral colonies.” http://www.britishbee.org.uk/files/bbka-research-concepts.pdf Page 7.

Obviously this is referring to UK Wild Bee populations but, if it is true that these wild bee’s have become dependent on human intervention, there might be similar problems elsewhere.

According to Doctor Who it is a very bad sign.

I see. And you trust this Doctor? ;D
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 07:34:17 PM »


According to Doctor Who it is a very bad sign.

I see. And you trust this Doctor? ;D


Implicitly.
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Tiervexx

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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 11:10:33 PM »

Old news.....

Hive collapse is caused by mites and a mite-transmitted bug, and it seems to affect mostly
commercial hives.....  Still a problem, but probably not the end of the world as we know it...

...and I feel fiiiiine...  ;D



(Oh, and yes, if you have a garden, you should totally get a hive or two.)

Your information is a little out of date.

I remember reading in Scientific American (or maybe it was Discover) that the mite problem has largely run it's course but there was another problem with a new pesticide hurting them.

Basically, new pesticides have been carefully designed to not be toxic to humans but they did not coincide the effect on bees.

I really don't see this or global warming as a major threat though.  The bee problem can be fixed now that they know to test future pesticides for their effect on bees and we won't be using fossil fuels long enough for global warming to become a major threat.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2009, 02:12:41 PM »

Old news.....

Hive collapse is caused by mites and a mite-transmitted bug, and it seems to affect mostly
commercial hives.....  Still a problem, but probably not the end of the world as we know it...

...and I feel fiiiiine...  ;D

(Oh, and yes, if you have a garden, you should totally get a hive or two.)

Your information is a little out of date.

I remember reading in Scientific American (or maybe it was Discover) that the mite problem has largely run it's course but there was another problem with a new pesticide hurting them.

Basically, new pesticides have been carefully designed to not be toxic to humans but they did not coincide the effect on bees.

I really don't see this or global warming as a major threat though.  The bee problem can be fixed now that they know to test future pesticides for their effect on bees ...
[/quote]

if the industry really does this testing,
or the governments involve force them to.

... and we won't be using fossil fuels long enough for global warming to become a major threat.

false.

irrepairable damage has already been done to the planet
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2009, 07:09:43 PM »

Old news.....

Hive collapse is caused by mites and a mite-transmitted bug, and it seems to affect mostly
commercial hives.....  Still a problem, but probably not the end of the world as we know it...

...and I feel fiiiiine...  ;D

(Oh, and yes, if you have a garden, you should totally get a hive or two.)

Your information is a little out of date.

I remember reading in Scientific American (or maybe it was Discover) that the mite problem has largely run it's course but there was another problem with a new pesticide hurting them.

Basically, new pesticides have been carefully designed to not be toxic to humans but they did not coincide the effect on bees.

I really don't see this or global warming as a major threat though.  The bee problem can be fixed now that they know to test future pesticides for their effect on bees ...

if the industry really does this testing,
or the governments involve force them to.

... and we won't be using fossil fuels long enough for global warming to become a major threat.

false.

irrepairable damage has already been done to the planet
[/quote]

not too much damage has been done to the planet with fossil fuels; we are just running out of them (at least at the source we've been getting them).  i agree that the ecosystem that supports humans has slightly changed (probably not by humans though), but, i consider global warming is a myth.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2009, 08:12:19 PM »

not too much damage has been done to the planet with fossil fuels; we are just running out of them (at least at the source we've been getting them).  i agree that the ecosystem that supports humans has slightly changed (probably not by humans though), but, i consider global warming is a myth.

i also think global warming is a myth, that it's just the Earth's natural cycle. i don't believe that in the last 50 years, people have fucked up the Earth more than people in the millions of years before us. Little vain, don't you think?
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2009, 08:19:45 PM »

not too much damage has been done to the planet with fossil fuels; we are just running out of them (at least at the source we've been getting them).  i agree that the ecosystem that supports humans has slightly changed (probably not by humans though), but, i consider global warming is a myth.

i also think global warming is a myth, that it's just the Earth's natural cycle. i don't believe that in the last 50 years, people have fucked up the Earth more than people in the millions of years before us. Little vain, don't you think?

about as vain as thinking we are the only life in the universe, yeah.  besides....even if the atmosphere got blown off the planet with a solar flare or asteroid, as possibly happened with mars, it wouldn't damage the earth itself any, just all of the ecosystems on it.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2009, 08:23:20 PM »

not too much damage has been done to the planet with fossil fuels; we are just running out of them (at least at the source we've been getting them).  i agree that the ecosystem that supports humans has slightly changed (probably not by humans though), but, i consider global warming is a myth.

i also think global warming is a myth, that it's just the Earth's natural cycle. i don't believe that in the last 50 years, people have fucked up the Earth more than people in the millions of years before us. Little vain, don't you think?

Perhaps, except that there are significantly more of us, and have been for the last century. Also, more the entire world population can afford cars than ever before, which is a huge factor. If we just consider the US, the number of cows, whose gas has a great effect on the ozone layer, is ridiculous compared to what it used to be. Those are just a few things, and I don't want to support global warming from the ground up because you can just watch an inconvienent truth, or look at the mass of evidence scientists have produced, but I think that global warming is pretty clearly happening.
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Rob

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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2009, 12:41:29 PM »

Yeah...Global warming is very real.  The belief that its cause is largely anthropogenic is a myth.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2009, 03:36:04 PM »

Global warming is real, no doubt about it. As for the human caused component, it could be bigger or smaller than estimated. Even if it is a very tiny part, it certainly makes sense to do something about the human element…Hypothetically, let us say we are heading for a global disaster with collapsing eco-systems and land becoming increasingly unsuitable for human use. If it happens slower, it is easier for both human and non-human’s to adapt to the challenges.  Far fewer erratic variables will arise and it should be easier (although still tricky) to make informed decisions.

As for the extent of the human factor, it is difficult to pin down. Most ecosystems are delicate and some are extremely delicate. All ecosystems are complex. It wouldn’t take much to tip a system out of balance and for us to remain oblivious to how much of a catalyst human activity really was. What we can see is human activity correlating with changes in conditions known to coincide with the periods of past global warming. Correlation does not imply causation but it is worth taking seriously even if a lot of factors appear to be beyond human blame.   
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2009, 04:38:40 PM »

Yeah...Global warming is very real.  The belief that its cause is largely anthropogenic is a myth.

rob:

please offer an alternative explanation for
the steady rise in co2 and methane levels in the atmosphere. 
preferably backed by reputable scientific research

it's very clear to me that they are caused by our species.
are responsible for both global warming,
and the rise in oceanic acidity.
from all the research i've reviewed for the last 50 years
(yes, i've followed this since before i was 10)
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2009, 04:43:49 PM »

Global warming is real, no doubt about it. As for the human caused component, it could be bigger or smaller than estimated. Even if it is a very tiny part, it certainly makes sense to do something about the human element…Hypothetically, let us say we are heading for a global disaster with collapsing eco-systems and land becoming increasingly unsuitable for human use. If it happens slower, it is easier for both human and non-human’s to adapt to the challenges.  Far fewer erratic variables will arise and it should be easier (although still tricky) to make informed decisions.

As for the extent of the human factor, it is difficult to pin down. Most ecosystems are delicate and some are extremely delicate. All ecosystems are complex. It wouldn’t take much to tip a system out of balance and for us to remain oblivious to how much of a catalyst human activity really was. What we can see is human activity correlating with changes in conditions known to coincide with the periods of past global warming. Correlation does not imply causation but it is worth taking seriously even if a lot of factors appear to be beyond human blame.   

Definitely.  There is no doubt that if we continued to speed up the quantities of CO2 that we dump into the atmosphere it would eventually have an effect but the attempts at claiming that we have already done so much or that it will just take a few years more are very suspicious.

I remember one ridiculous report that has since been debunked that tried to claim that the temperature of the Earth remained almost perfectly constant than suddenly shot up since the industrial revolution.  When this one was investigated it was found that he basically made up his data than did a lot of bad math with it.  Everyone that ever studied the dinosaur age knows that the Earth was much warmer back then.  Volcano's actually destroy human output of greenhouse gasses right now.

Also... I've often wondered something about global warming... All the CO2 that we can possibly release from fossil fuels was once in the atmosphere before being trapped by plants that eventually became coal, gas, or oil right?

EDIT:  Let me be clear that when I'm talking about greenhouse gasses from volcano's I'm not just talking about CO2.  That's not the only greenhouse gas or even the strongest despite what many armchair global warming advocates seem to think.

Yeah...Global warming is very real.  The belief that its cause is largely anthropogenic is a myth.

rob:

please offer an alternative explanation for
the steady rise in co2 and methane levels in the atmosphere. 
preferably backed by reputable scientific research

it's very clear to me that they are caused by our species.
are responsible for both global warming,
and the rise in oceanic acidity.
from all the research i've reviewed for the last 50 years
(yes, i've followed this since before i was 10)


Yes, we are doing that but big fluctuations in temperature happened long before us so more proof is needed to show that that is all that's going on.

This recent year has been far colder than climate models predicted so obviously there is a problem with their method.  This fact does not totally refute the theory but does prove that their current model is not complete.

Once again, I don't doubt that global warming is real, just that I think it is much less urgent than alarmists say.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2009, 05:15:27 PM »

before investing time and money into maintaining an apiary, check with your local zoning laws regarding apiaries.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2009, 05:19:55 PM »

CO2 levels fluctuate.  there has been evidence found in re-forming of ice caps that CO2 levels were higher at times than they are now before the industrial revolution, and periodically through time.  

the fact that the earth is livable for us now is probably a good prompt for us to start researching how to adapt in colonies off it.  that way, should a catastrophic event or global shift occur, we have more of a chance of surviving on the planet when the atmosphere decides to arbitrarily fuck off.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2009, 06:25:52 PM »

I keep bees in my garden becacuse of this. It's scary, dangerous as fuck, but overall pretty rewarding. You get to know for a fact that all of your plants are pollinated, and then when it's all over you get a few pounds of honey out of the deal. Awesome hobby. I recommend it to anyone who's not allergic to bees.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2009, 06:46:29 PM »

There is another discussion about global warming around here somewhere.  Let's not clutter this one up, lest someone gets a bee in their bonnet.

Anyway, in that other discussion, there is plenty of real science to indicate that global warming is more a component of natural climatic systems than a result of human interferance. 

Research has indicated that spikes in Co2 follow rather than preceed rises in long term average temperatures.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2009, 06:52:58 PM »

Searched a little, didn't find it.  Maybe it's over at VV. 

Historical co2 levels and relative temperatures. 




Seems we go through this every 150,000 years or so.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2009, 10:16:31 PM »

Searched a little, didn't find it.  Maybe it's over at VV. 

Historical co2 levels and relative temperatures. 




Seems we go through this every 150,000 years or so.
...and it's kinda pointless to try and describe a cause/effect relationship here.  There's no way of saying with
any certainty which caused the other, if in fact they aren't both effects of some undefined cause...



before investing time and money into maintaining an apiary, check with your local zoning laws regarding apiaries.
I know it's illegal in NYC...  I also know there's an underground (or not so underground)
bee-keeping movement there.  The way I see it, if bees are outlawed, only outlaws will
have honey....
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2009, 10:33:25 PM »

Beekeeping's illegal in my area, too. Protip: put the hive in rows of corn. No one will notice, and those that are smart enough to notice, don't care, because they know that beekeeping shouldn't be illegal.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2009, 02:13:44 PM »

Global warming is real, no doubt about it. As for the human caused component, it could be bigger or smaller than estimated. Even if it is a very tiny part, it certainly makes sense to do something about the human element…Hypothetically, let us say we are heading for a global disaster with collapsing eco-systems and land becoming increasingly unsuitable for human use. If it happens slower, it is easier for both human and non-human’s to adapt to the challenges.  Far fewer erratic variables will arise and it should be easier (although still tricky) to make informed decisions.

As for the extent of the human factor, it is difficult to pin down. Most ecosystems are delicate and some are extremely delicate. All ecosystems are complex. It wouldn’t take much to tip a system out of balance and for us to remain oblivious to how much of a catalyst human activity really was. What we can see is human activity correlating with changes in conditions known to coincide with the periods of past global warming. Correlation does not imply causation but it is worth taking seriously even if a lot of factors appear to be beyond human blame.   

Definitely.  There is no doubt that if we continued to speed up the quantities of CO2 that we dump into the atmosphere it would eventually have an effect but the attempts at claiming that we have already done so much or that it will just take a few years more are very suspicious.

The reason why irreparable damage has quickly become a matter of years rather than decades or centuries has a lot do with the inclusion of new factors in the models used for estimations. There are factors that are yet to be introduced to the models that will shed some new light on the situation but the forecast is still a negative one.

The factors involved in global warming (man induced or other) are often exponential so it doesn't seem unreasonable that a comprehensive model would reveal an acceleration in the deterioration of conditions that would be hard to curtail in a matter of years. It’s a bit of a Wheat and chessboard problem in that respect. A classic example (not necessarily the best) is the reflective quality of the ice sheets. The more the ice melts the less heat is reflected away from the earth and the quicker the ice melts. It’s a type of acceleration that has also been noted in deteriorating ecosystems.
Also... I've often wondered something about global warming... All the CO2 that we can possibly release from fossil fuels was once in the atmosphere before being trapped by plants that eventually became coal, gas, or oil right?

I'm not sure if this is what you were getting at but...When these gases were abundant in the atmosphere, conditions would have been fine for the life forms of the time. The trapping of Co2 and other problem gases would have bought about conditions that allowed other life forms to emerge. The reintroduction of these gases would once again make conditions very unfavourable to life that has thrived in the relatively stable conditions of recent years.

"This recent year has been far colder than climate models predicted so obviously there is a problem with their method.  This fact does not totally refute the theory but does prove that their current model is not complete."

This is the Len part of the post... where could I read about that?
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2009, 01:08:29 AM »


"This recent year has been far colder than climate models predicted so obviously there is a problem with their method.  This fact does not totally refute the theory but does prove that their current model is not complete."

This is the Len part of the post... where could I read about that?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2008/040408_cools_off.htm

This page gives sources and you can find plenty of other sources on searches about it being relatively cold this year. I just picked one.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2009, 10:51:51 AM »

I don't believe in bees: it's all a socialist conspiracy.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2009, 03:39:04 AM »


"This recent year has been far colder than climate models predicted so obviously there is a problem with their method.  This fact does not totally refute the theory but does prove that their current model is not complete."

This is the Len part of the post... where could I read about that?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2008/040408_cools_off.htm

This page gives sources and you can find plenty of other sources on searches about it being relatively cold this year. I just picked one.

Thanks. I've had a look at this and I've included a link that provides an explanation. Here is part of it: 

"There are any number of factors that cause global temperatures to rise and fall. Solar activity is one –- as the sun goes through its 11-year sunspot cycle, solar radiation goes up and down causing global temperatures to fluctuate up and down. El Nino and La Nina oscillations in the South Pacific Ocean also lead to relatively warm years (El Nino) and cool years (La Nina)."

http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/globalwarmingsince1998

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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2009, 09:34:19 AM »

lot's of partial truths above
and bad science quoted

i'll comment on them as i have time

---

you'll only convince me by good science
e.g. articles from reputable peer-reviewed journals
e.g Science or Nature
e.g. reporting on such research from reputable media
e.g. the New York Times

such science has convinced me that global warming is real,
and is one of the largest challenges and disasters we face
as a species

... I've included a link that provides an explanation. Here is part of it: 

"There are any number of factors that cause global temperatures to rise and fall. Solar activity is one –- as the sun goes through its 11-year sunspot cycle, solar radiation goes up and down causing global temperatures to fluctuate up and down. ..."

the global warming trend is well documented for over a century
and beyond doubt for the last half-century

so these 11 year solar cycles are not relevant to whether it is happening or not
nor to what we should do about it

"... El Nino and La Nina oscillations in the South Pacific Ocean also lead to relatively warm years (El Nino) and cool years (La Nina)."

http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/globalwarmingsince1998

this is a very poorly written sentence

what happens during El Nino and La Nina is that regional temperatures and precipitation change
(mostly in the western hemisphere)

some regions get warmer
some regions get colder

some regions get more precipitation
some regions get less precipitation

the average temperature and precipitation across
the planet is not changed by either El Nino or La Nina
(significantly -
 there is some change,
 but it very small,
 and is due to changes in regional
 cloud coverage,
 which causes more or less sun-light to
 be reflected back into space
)
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2009, 06:56:02 PM »

The impression I got from the article was that a number of factors, negligible by themselves create minor fluctuations. The author of the article is actually saying that the 11-year solar activity is irrelevant to global warming but that to the laymen it will superficially obscure the upward trend. When these factors are accounted for (i.e. factored out) the trend of global warming becomes clear.  I picked out the article because it was the first thing that covered points that I remember reading about a few years ago. Unfortunately, I choose this particular article for brevity and its directness at addressing a link mentioned earlier in the thread. This is not great if you want a complete picture, but on a general level it addresses the question of why some people will look at a graph and conclude that global warming isn’t happening or that fluctuations in some ways suggest that scientists are not taking everything into account. You are quite right about peer-reviewed journals, ideally these would be the first port of call. It’s a shame that I encounter so many obstacles when it comes to accessing the documents. 
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2009, 11:12:54 PM »


"This recent year has been far colder than climate models predicted so obviously there is a problem with their method.  This fact does not totally refute the theory but does prove that their current model is not complete."

This is the Len part of the post... where could I read about that?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2008/040408_cools_off.htm

This page gives sources and you can find plenty of other sources on searches about it being relatively cold this year. I just picked one.

Thanks. I've had a look at this and I've included a link that provides an explanation. Here is part of it: 

"There are any number of factors that cause global temperatures to rise and fall. Solar activity is one –- as the sun goes through its 11-year sunspot cycle, solar radiation goes up and down causing global temperatures to fluctuate up and down. El Nino and La Nina oscillations in the South Pacific Ocean also lead to relatively warm years (El Nino) and cool years (La Nina)."

http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/globalwarmingsince1998



I do not dispute that global warming happens and that human actions contribute to it but I'm not nearly convinced that we already shot ourselves in the foot that badly.

If it takes another 50 years for "greener" energy sources to take over the planet will be a little warmer but life will go on.  It's nothing the planet has not already gone through.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2009, 08:38:57 AM »

thanx for the summary of the article

i haven't had a chance to look at it

and others might not

The impression I got from the article was that a number of factors, negligible by themselves create minor fluctuations. The author of the article is actually saying that the 11-year solar activity is irrelevant to global warming but that to the laymen it will superficially obscure the upward trend. When these factors are accounted for (i.e. factored out) the trend of global warming becomes clear.  I picked out the article because it was the first thing that covered points that I remember reading about a few years ago. Unfortunately, I choose this particular article for brevity and its directness at addressing a link mentioned earlier in the thread. This is not great if you want a complete picture, but on a general level it addresses the question of why some people will look at a graph and conclude that global warming isn’t happening or that fluctuations in some ways suggest that scientists are not taking everything into account. You are quite right about peer-reviewed journals, ideally these would be the first port of call. It’s a shame that I encounter so many obstacles when it comes to accessing the documents. 
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2009, 10:52:33 AM »


"This recent year has been far colder than climate models predicted so obviously there is a problem with their method.  This fact does not totally refute the theory but does prove that their current model is not complete."

This is the Len part of the post... where could I read about that?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2008/040408_cools_off.htm

This page gives sources and you can find plenty of other sources on searches about it being relatively cold this year. I just picked one.

Thanks. I've had a look at this and I've included a link that provides an explanation. Here is part of it: 

"There are any number of factors that cause global temperatures to rise and fall. Solar activity is one –- as the sun goes through its 11-year sunspot cycle, solar radiation goes up and down causing global temperatures to fluctuate up and down. El Nino and La Nina oscillations in the South Pacific Ocean also lead to relatively warm years (El Nino) and cool years (La Nina)."

http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/globalwarmingsince1998



I do not dispute that global warming happens and that human actions contribute to it but I'm not nearly convinced that we already shot ourselves in the foot that badly.

My point was that cooler years are already reasonably well accounted for. I did not mean to suggest anything different about your viewpoint beyond that.

If it takes another 50 years for "greener" energy sources to take over the planet will be a little warmer but life will go on.  It's nothing the planet has not already gone through.

Life does go on, but what kind of life? 50 years is enough time (by most estimates)to cause changes that will bring about at least some scarcity and probably quite a bit of migration. Both of these are factors that are known to bring about social tensions. The world goes through all kinds of changes that would not fair us well.

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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2009, 06:03:35 PM »

The director of the embattled Climatic Research Unit in the United Kingdom is stepping down pending an investigation into allegations that he overstated the case for man-made climate change.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,578486,00.html
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2010, 05:43:44 PM »

this article explains why the northern hemisphere is having colder winters,
because of global warming
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/opinion/26cohen.html
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2010, 10:55:37 AM »

GDI! Global Warming is a farce. The phrase. In this case, words have power and "Global Warming", while a nice buzzphrase, is so incorrect as to be completely unrepresentative of the actual issue. Global Climate Change is much more accurate. Weather will become more volatile. More volatile as in "Hot weather is more hot and cold weather is more cold." More volatile as in "Gosh that storm seemed more intense than storms in the past."

More volatile, not just warmer.
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Re: Bee decline more of a threat than global warming?
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2010, 10:23:59 PM »

GDI! Global Warming is a farce. The phrase. In this case, words have power and "Global Warming", while a nice buzzphrase, is so incorrect as to be completely unrepresentative of the actual issue. Global Climate Change is much more accurate. Weather will become more volatile. More volatile as in "Hot weather is more hot and cold weather is more cold." More volatile as in "Gosh that storm seemed more intense than storms in the past."

More volatile, not just warmer.
....or if you live, say, here...  where Winters are plenty cold enough, but there's rarely any
atmospheric moisture, it'll be a shade warmer, but really snowy....
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