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Amanda's got a blog. If blogs could talk, it'd ask you to read it. It might even say "please."

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Author Topic: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.  (Read 14190 times)

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Amanda Palmer

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gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« on: December 18, 2009, 03:55:06 AM »

i was going to write a whole blog...i even had a draft that i wrote down in florida.

but this was better: i made a song.
if i never post that blog, i'll throw it onto the gaga thread i know is kicking around here somewhere.

ArrrrrrrrrrrrrRT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dxDREaCyjE

lyrics (more or less)


she's a part of the music continuum she's a part of this difficult world and she wears outfits made of aluminium
she is a 23 she is a 23 she is a 23 and a half old girl

i am part of the music continuum i am part of this difficult world
i'm sometimes naked and play the accordioni am a 33 i am a 33 i am a 33 and half year old girl

she is a part of the music continuum she is a part of this difficult world
she was the first one to often have no clothes on
she is not 53 she's only 50 but i used her anyway cause she fits well in this song

art is great that way you can do anything you can make dance music you can paint ducks but once you make art you are subject to criticism
and if you're a pop artist and you're a woman then its much more  likey that people will say your art sucks

making pop music isn't for everyone -well actually that's wrong it techinically is
thats why it's pop music now i've confused myself -i'm going to start a new verse and i;ll say it like this
 
some artists focus on love and simplicity -some artists focus on fashion and fame
then sometimes some artists try to do everything
which is impossible i think those people are brave

art is so simple just ask andy warholif he weren't dead he would tell you truth
call it a masterpiece call it a urinal it does not matter it's art so there's nothing to prove
im not sure what the point of this song was
and-i Know this song doesn't actually have to
have any point at all or even good rhymes in it
like lady gaga and also madonna i'm just trying to entertain people, make a living,
pay my rent without having to have a job i hate and  hopefully find an audience who will love & accept me and not think i'm a narcissist for wanting to be 
a performer and find true inner peace and thats all.

now a question to further our diologue
is all art real art and pop art art?
and if someone talented wants to make pop music
why should we worry when there's so much other shit wrong?

this song took less time to write and record
and post straight onto youtube than writing a blog
i think it's possible i will do more of these
please send your comments especially if you think i'm wrong








 


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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 04:10:46 AM »

All art is art. It comes down to the individual whether they like it or not. Just because millions of individuals all like something does not mean it is any less arty than something appreciated by only a few.

(Still can't stand Gaga - Pokerface is one of the most irritating songs I have ever heard.)
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2009, 04:19:25 AM »

art is strife
art is life
art is the passing of a kitchen knife

art is food
art is rude
art is the wearing of a nylon hoood!
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2009, 04:41:32 AM »

Basically I agree. Amanda Palmer is often naked…

But seriously, I do agree with the song…

I like the vlog. Good if it cuts down the labouring. I still like blogs more but I think that replacing a few with vlogs would be a good kind of variation.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2009, 05:04:28 AM »

The problem for me is when 'art' becomes carefully devised, cash-cow product.

A true artist should not be concerned with monetary wealth in my opinion.
They should seek to display their art but not become so full of their themselves and their monetary successes surrounded by sycophants that their work is not challenged or pushed further.

An artist can only be truly creative when faced with hardship.

quick music example - U2, early album: 'War' compared to the last 15 years worth of poop they've shipped out.

music lifecycle: early work first tour, gather fanbase and hopefully signed, exposure to mass media, tour, album, tour, album, tour, experimental album, stale failure 3 years of uninspired albums, rehab, staleness and re releases/reality tv shows, death

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2009, 05:50:29 AM »

The problem for me is when 'art' becomes carefully devised, cash-cow product.
I was responding to this line but I think you added to it...

Ah. I can sort of see that. If you can except the “I see, I like, I buy” line of thinking it’s less of a problem, but I can also see that it is possible to use art  (like all things) as a sort-of guilt-tripping tool. I.e. People want to behave consistently and want to show support for someone/something they like and they will buy stuff to maintain this idea about themselves. The problem is that this happens even when the purchaser genuinely likes the art. Those who do not see the subjective appeal might perceive the arrangement to be a manipulation.

In the long term it’s probably better to learn to have awareness about when you are susceptible to this psychological effect. People ultimately have to take responsibility for their own decisions.   

A true artist should not be concerned with monetary wealth in my opinion.
They should seek to display their art but not become so full of their themselves and their monetary successes surrounded by sycophants that their work is not challenged or pushed further.

An artist can only be truly creative when faced with hardship.
I suppose you could ask the question, “does monetary concern show in the art?” The answer is, yes sometimes, but can you prove a negative? If something has the appearance of not being motivated by monetary concerns + is also a good work of art, would that mean that it was under no circumstances motivated by money?

I also think that it’s possible to experience other types of hardship, some of which the artist’s audience will relate to more than others. If your life has a lot of stuff going on in it that your audience can’t relate to, they are not going to think much of the art that is inspired by it.
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insignifikunt

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2009, 06:23:11 AM »

Love the vlog idea and I love the song and it's sentiment but I will never find any appeal in GaGa. Don't get my wrong I love some pop music, it's a guilty pleasure of mine, maybe if I listened to a full album if hers I would like it, but what I have heard doesn't sound like "art" to me, it sounds completely manufactured without much more behind it than the desire to make money.

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2009, 06:37:00 AM »

this song is so kimya dawson
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009, 07:10:05 AM »

That was the best possible way to start a day ever.

But yes.
In my view all art is art.
And some stuff that isn't art is art too.
We don't get to decide.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2009, 08:40:26 AM »

this was the best thing to wake up to. thank you, afp!
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2009, 08:51:37 AM »

so awesome.  i like the idea of an occasional video song blog, because that was fun.

A true artist should not be concerned with monetary wealth in my opinion.

i see where you're coming from, and do agree that a lot of good art can come from hardship, however, it's just not realistic to find someone, no matter how simply they live, who isn't at least a little concerned with monetary wealth.

everybody's gotta live, you know?  and that isn't free.  so if you want to be an artist as your career, you need to make sure you'll make money for it.

Yes, I agree, maybe I should elaborate with some more blahing.
An artist who follows the money primarily will produce soulless work
sure it might be catchy and designed to appeal to the masses but in the end it is throwaway.
However an artist who does it out of love and the desire to give something of lasting worth to others=WIN in my opinion.

Now while I am sure Amanda isn't living off the Tesco beans yet (or American equivalent)
she does need money to tour/release Albums etc.
[misquote removed]
GAGA on the other hand does not seem to have these concerns

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2009, 08:58:15 AM »

I DIDN'T SAY THAT STOP TWISTING MY WORDS OR I'LL BARRICADE THE DOORS SHUT AND YOU WONT BE ABLE TO GET INTO YOUR OWN HOUSE AND YOU'LL HAVE TO STAY OUT IN THE COLD I AM REALLY THAT TIRED OF IT.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2009, 09:02:26 AM »

I DIDN'T SAY THAT STOP TWISTING MY WORDS OR I'LL BARRICADE THE DOORS SHUT AND YOU WONT BE ABLE TO GET INTO YOUR OWN HOUSE AND YOU'LL HAVE TO STAY OUT IN THE COLD I AM REALLY THAT TIRED OF IT.

If I have misquoted you I apologise

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2009, 09:07:08 AM »

Apology accepted.
*moves on with life*
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2009, 09:55:42 AM »

I think the term “disposable” might be a bit of a misnomer or a half-truth. Music might get shoved aside for new things, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is entirely disposed of. I’ve got a few friends that like pop and I’ll periodically catch them listening to stuff that others (years before) dubbed disposable. It still interests them and is of some worth to their lives.

As for the soul of music: Could that just be a prejudicial term we ascribe to the types of music we value? The music I like lacks the qualities that people look for in pop. People have said to me; “where are the beats? I can’t dance to this. This is too discordant” and so on. My favourite music tends not to have "the feel" they want and so from their perspective it is lacking something.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2009, 10:16:37 AM »

I disagree that financial hardship and eschewing money are necessary for the making of powerful art.

now a question to further our diologue
is all art real art and is pop art art?
and if someone talented wants to make pop music
why should we worry when there's so much other shit wrong?

Art is real art if it touches/connects with at least one other person, or if it helps the artist to function in "this difficult world".
Pop art... is art. I like to say I grew up in the church of Andy Warhol (my mom connected with him on some level, and she passed that on to her two daughters). I didn't always like or understand pop art. I'm not sure I understand exactly what Andy was doing with his work, even now. What I do get is that pop art is real art, and is a reflection of our culture.

A related question I have: is entertainment art?
"like lady gaga and also madonna i'm just trying to entertain people"
Is art entertainment?

I give Lady Gaga a thumbs up for inspiring such a mixed reaction in so many of the people I talk to about her. What she's doing makes people think about deeper questions than whether or not he can read her poker face.

Lastly, I like the vlog. I love the songs you write in 20 minutes, Amanda. This tune is particularly catchy, and the whole presentation is really adorable. I have trouble following the comments on youtube, however, and will be less likely to go through all several-hundred of them there.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2009, 10:50:31 AM »

Oh yes Amanda! More of these. VLOGSONGING IS THE FUTURE!!!

The negative reaction to Lady GaGa seems to mainly come from a place of over-hype and over-exposure. I rail against her because I'm just tired of seeing her everywhere, and how she is being marketed as a new thing (and I'm sorry, Dale Bozzio beat her to the ultra-blonde-foil-wearing-weirdo act by decades, and The Missing Persons actually had interesting songs). The anger seems to come from the fact that once an artist reaches her level, you can't ignore her. She is on every station, every channel and on every magazine cover. I see all of this, and my only reaction is "WHY???" I have listened to her music, and it does nothing for me. She has managed to bring out the music snob in me. I know in my rational mind that opinions are like assholes, but my heart is screaming "THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!!!" Even some of my buddies seem to be digging her, and I can't help but feeling they have been duped. They let the market forces shove something down their throats, and instead of spitting it out and saying yuck, they are saying "give me some more daddy!"

I know feeling this way is WRONG. I know all the people loving on the GaGa are not idiots and sell-outs. She is talented, and pretty fresh compared to the other shit on the pop charts. Who the fuck am I to tell her not to take the money and run, and to tell fans that their opinions suck? If I want really challenging pop music, I can shut off the TV, radio or whatever and put on my Bjork CDs. I guess the anger comes from turning the radio off, and then hearing her music blaring from afar or coming on the TV set. She is a FAME MONSTER STALKING ME!!!! :)
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2009, 11:11:38 AM »

Oh yes Amanda! More of these. VLOGSONGING IS THE FUTURE!!!

The negative reaction to Lady GaGa seems to mainly come from a place of over-hype and over-exposure. I rail against her because I'm just tired of seeing her everywhere, and how she is being marketed as a new thing (and I'm sorry, Dale Bozzio beat her to the ultra-blonde-foil-wearing-weirdo act by decades, and The Missing Persons actually had interesting songs). some more daddy!"


Missing persons win :D
Mental Hopskotch Tinfoil poppery from the 80s >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjnW3Fku75w

oh and the sad sideeffect of Pop Art and Fine Art these days is that they have left the doors open for
charlatans shitheels who are quite frankly are lazy heartless motherfuckers that are just taking the piss.
Trust me  O0 I work at an art college and have met several self professed fakers.

PS. Terry Bozzio has similar energy to Viggie

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2009, 11:28:04 AM »



Missing persons win :D
Mental Hopskotch Tinfoil poppery from the 80s >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjnW3Fku75w

oh and the sad sideeffect of Pop Art and Fine Art these days is that they have left the doors open for
charlatans shitheels who are quite frankly are lazy heartless motherfuckers that are just taking the piss.
Trust me  O0 I work at an art college and have met several self professed fakers.

PS. Terry Bozzio has similar energy to Viggie


Wow, right on about the Terry/Viggie vibe. They even make a lot of the same faces when they play.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2009, 11:37:41 AM »



Missing persons win :D
Mental Hopskotch Tinfoil poppery from the 80s >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjnW3Fku75w

oh and the sad sideeffect of Pop Art and Fine Art these days is that they have left the doors open for
charlatans shitheels who are quite frankly are lazy heartless motherfuckers that are just taking the piss.
Trust me  O0 I work at an art college and have met several self professed fakers.

PS. Terry Bozzio has similar energy to Viggie


Wow, right on about the Terry/Viggie vibe. They even make a lot of the same faces when they play.

I thought that a year ago when I stumbled on the video.
My old drumming teacher who had a similar approach to viggie was a huge Terry Bozzio Fan

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2009, 11:41:01 AM »

In fact, watch this video. Listen to the song, see the images, and please tell me what is so new and fresh about Lady GaGa. It is like she based her whole style on this video alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj4ZqutTTQs
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2009, 11:47:19 AM »

In fact, watch this video. Listen to the song, see the images, and please tell me what is so new and fresh about Lady GaGa. It is like she based her whole style on this video alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj4ZqutTTQs

I really love 80s music videos because the medium was just developing.
They weren't polished and some were just so strange and interesting.

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2009, 01:57:02 PM »

It bugs me when people get down on Lady Gaga for being a pop artist. She is a very talented musician, as one can see from her early stuff and acoustic covers of her songs. She has an amazing voice and a wonderful handle on the piano. And she decided she wanted to make pop music. Good for her. I think real art is what the artist makes of it. True, she has become very mainstream, but it's all her own creation. Rather than saying she's sold out, I think that she's actually working the system in a way. The fact that she clearly could, and has in the past, make music that isn't "pop music," suggests that she knows this, and is either writing something she loves the sound of and is great dance music, or is writing this music knowing that she can make a shitload of money off of it. Either way, I can respect that. I think that people get way to wrapped up in the idea of mainstream and popular music. Just because a lot of people think its fantastic, doesn't mean that you need to think its shit. If you do, then you should have other reasons for doing so, that aren't related to how popular this artist is. That makes you just as bad as the people who like her just because she is popular.

She's an artist, she's making money. She's not killing puppies or anything. I think people should just give her a break.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2009, 02:01:34 PM »

...or is writing this music knowing that she can make a shitload of money off of it. Either way, I can respect that.
I think that second possibility is what a lot of people can't respect.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2009, 02:22:32 PM »

I think that art is art if it changes the way you were feeling.
If it has an effect on your life in any way - happiness, sadness, even anger.

If I feel indifferent about something. I cannot personally consider it art.

I can appreciate the talent involved and maybe even understand why other people love it. However, I feel that experiencing art is so highly subjective that it is impossible for two people to be affected in the same way.

The only reason we feel the need to put down on these 'pop' genres is because we want to feel like we belong. So we do what everyone else is doing.
I do it myself. It's human nature.

[anyone fancy converting gaga, palmer, madonna into mp3 for us to enjoy aurally? i know some of my friends, who are sans interweb, would love it!]
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2009, 02:34:17 PM »

and if you're a pop artist and you're a woman then its much more likely that people will say your art sucks

What difference does it make? You can't please everyone.

The point being, you create something that does more than entertain, which I feel all art mediums should do, although I think it's fine for someone to create art because it's pretty to look at.

There's a moment for people like you, there's always a moment, when you choose to sell out or you choose to do more than entertain.

I think that you're lucky, while you have the support of fans and fellow musicians and "artists", you do not, at the end of the day, need them to create. It's better, I'm sure, to have an audience, to have a point to it all, but I don't think your gifts are completely dependent on other people. You will explode music whether you opt to or not.  

I find that in the world of directing, I was more heavily criticized than my male colleagues. Criticized for being overly emotional, extremely picky, and very attached to my cast and crew.

Fuck em!

If I had listened to the aged male professor who told me in my first year of graduate school that I should have never been accepted to the program, I wouldn't have gotten very far.

I didn't necessarily feel the need to prove him wrong, although I knew he was. And I did prove him wrong, however unintentionally.

I cannot bring myself to direct or to be involved with projects that do nothing for the 'greater good', even if it as simple as provoking someone to read the original story of the parody I'm working on. I certainly prefer to spark thought and emotion in my audiences.

But I think that comes out of my needing to feel "useful", which means that I don't feel terribly useful, and when I feel the least useful of all is when I try to define and judge the poignancy of my art and of myself. The further I can get from agonizing over who will say my art sucks and who will be completely transformed by it, the better off I am.

And as I'm writing this, there are few examples of art, particularly music, that dont' "do more", that "don't go further". There will always be someone there at the end of the day to tell you that your art sucks, and for me it's usually...well...me. If I can beat other people to the criticizing punch, I'm safer somehow.

I'm a huge Lady Gaga fan. Why? Because she makes me want to dance. I find her clever and attractive and better than a cup of coffee in the morning.

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2009, 04:02:22 PM »

GREATEST SONG EVAR!
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overratedtoejam

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2009, 04:07:03 PM »

yes, do more of these. that was great.




and here's an update on an image i made for a different thread (+ pointy bra):

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2009, 05:13:45 PM »

^ that image is awesome
and the song is awesome  :D it made my day
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2009, 04:21:54 AM »

After all this GaGa talk lately I thought I should give her another go because in all honesty, despite the fact she is extremely over exposed, I haven't had much exposure to her because I don't listen to commercial radio. So I watched a clip on youtube posted by someone on twitter of her performing at the royal variety show.

I have to admit I didn't hate the song... BUT being on youtube, it's virtually impossible to watch one song and be on my way so I checkout out another couple and my original opinion remains the same.

I think she is capable of writing really great music and there is no doubt that she has a great voice, BUT what she is doing now is nothing special, it's no different from the Britney's and the Jessica Simpson's out there. All she has done differently is the packaging! She dresses unusually and all that. So it's the same manufactured pop music, which there is nothing wrong with, like I said before, I love some pop music, but it's nothing ground breaking and amazing as some people including Lady GaGa herself seem to think it is. I feel like it's souless and created solely for financial benefits.

Personally I think the whole "odd persona" and clothing is to mask the fact that she is just like every out pop star that has ever been in the charts...

She is definitely not original at all.
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Helena Prezio

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2009, 10:07:13 AM »

I love some pop music, but it's nothing ground breaking and amazing as some people including Lady GaGa herself seem to think it is. I feel like it's souless and created solely for financial benefits.

That may or may not be the case, but because she is so "over exposed" and on every radio station in the country, she's reaching people that perhaps the artists with "souls" may not be able to reach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1QYXHzgRw4

I personally don't care if she has a soul or not. I do not feel that I'm in a position in my life to judge anyone else. I enjoy her music. I also have a soft spot for early Brittany Spears.

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2009, 11:53:22 AM »

Yes, I agree, maybe I should elaborate with some more blahing.
An artist who follows the money primarily will produce soulless work
sure it might be catchy and designed to appeal to the masses but in the end it is throwaway.
I wish this were true, but it isn't: Mozart followed the money all his life. All of Conan-Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories were written in order to be serialised in magazines. Many Motown classics were written to deadlines in a lyrical production line environment. If you can fake sincerity, as the saying goes...
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2009, 12:16:19 PM »

I do not consider the majority of musicians to be 'Artists' but all to be 'musicians'
however music with art elements/concepts and themes incorporated into the music/stageshow
makes those that create such works an artist/musician hybrid in my opinion.

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2009, 03:02:14 PM »

I love this thread and vlog. 

I'm reminded of the other day when I had an argument with my kid over pop music not being 'art'... That yes, it is fun and catchy but created by a bunch of people just trying to make a buck, blah blah blah blah commercialism /noise.  Her response was, "But mom, I like it.  Why are you trying to ruin it for me."  Wholly crap!  Why was I?  I've always figured art being something that evoked an emotion, good-bad... whatever.  If it is making her happy and others, then why am I being a hater about it?  I blame art school... ruined my perspective.  Heh... btw, I apologized and told her she was right.  And plus, I love Lady Gaga. 

In response to the lyrics... I do however think Amanda is a bit of a narcissist.  I don't think that is such a bad thing though.  I don't see how you can be an entertainer and not be narcissistic .  I may be wrong.   But it takes confidence and self love to get up there in front of so many people.  Is that a bad thing?  I've always thought Amanda embraces her narcissism in a positive way.  Its  not the first time she has brought it up in a blog... It's ok to be rad and know it.  She is still humble and human.  I think that it is refreshing.
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2009, 03:52:30 PM »

Most people have narcissistic traits and this sort-of becomes a base line we acclimatise to. The type of narcissism you picked up on is certainly not bad to have in moderation, but given that narcissism is taboo (because we only tend to notice it in cases of the extreme), it is understandable that people would want to recast the traits in positive light and leave the term "narcissism" for the vulgar cases of those traits.


A related question I have: is entertainment art?

Just remembered this comment after briefly catching a glimpse of a book-marked interview entitled “Literature Is Entertainment or It Is Nothing.” Art is a form of entertainment, but not all entertainment is art. Entertainment can be very mundane and I don’t think art can really be as unobtrusive as -say- some simple ways of passing time. Once something is designated as art it has stepped up a notch. For instance, looking at the shapes in clouds on a bus ride home is a form of entertainment. I’m not sure it would be possible to call it art unless some other factor was introduced.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2009, 08:17:47 PM »

An artist can only be truly creative when faced with hardship.

quick music example - U2, early album: 'War' compared to the last 15 years worth of poop they've shipped out.


as a) the 'Box's resident U2 fanatic and b) old enough to remember when War was released, I can tell you that there were many, many shouts and accusations of "sellout" aimed U2's way when War came out.

just thought I'd drop that in there.

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2009, 08:48:19 PM »

this song is so kimya dawson
I'm feeling that too.

Buttt I LOVE this song!!
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2009, 10:33:55 PM »

An artist can only be truly creative when faced with hardship.

quick music example - U2, early album: 'War' compared to the last 15 years worth of poop they've shipped out.


as a) the 'Box's resident U2 fanatic and b) old enough to remember when War was released, I can tell you that there were many, many shouts and accusations of "sellout" aimed U2's way when War came out.

just thought I'd drop that in there.

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2009, 11:38:26 PM »

Good lord.
There is so much Lady GaGa on this forum at the moment that it's making my face hurt.

I don't get it. She's just a pop star who doesn't like to wear pants. I don't hate her, and I don't bag out on other people for liking her. She just.....is.


In conclusion, I would like to say, Lady GaGa's publicist deserves a massive christmas bonus this year!

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2009, 11:47:00 PM »

I think that the fact so many people seem to be discussing her... not just here, but in general... and her merits, means something. I mean... if she were just a hack, why would we be talking about if she is/isn't talented so much?

Just a thought.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2009, 12:00:29 AM »

I think that the fact so many people seem to be discussing her... not just here, but in general... and her merits, means something. I mean... if she were just a hack, why would we be talking about if she is/isn't talented so much?

Just a thought.

EXACTLY!!!
i feel like people are failing to realize that THIS is what the beauty of all this discussion is....the fact that there are so many people pulling their hair out over her, not being able to make up their minds. she is making people THINK.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2009, 12:21:16 AM »

But, and this is just my opinion, it didn't seem that GaGa was really discussed on this forum until there was a Dresden Dolls/Amanda Palmer link. Then pretty much everyone had an opinion how talented or awful they thought she was.
I'm pretty sure if Mandy Moore had the Dolls listed as one of her influences on her Myspace page, there would be another 29 page thread discussing weather Amanda should throw in a cover of "Candy" at her NYE show.

I think more people are likely to start forming an opinion on somebody once they know there is common link between them, and something else they love
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2009, 12:30:57 AM »

But, and this is just my opinion, it didn't seem that GaGa was really discussed on this forum until there was a Dresden Dolls/Amanda Palmer link. Then pretty much everyone had an opinion how talented or awful they thought she was.
I'm pretty sure if Mandy Moore had the Dolls listed as one of her influences on her Myspace page, there would be another 29 page thread discussing weather Amanda should throw in a cover of "Candy" at her NYE show.

I think more people are likely to start forming an opinion on somebody once they know there is common link between them, and something else they love

I would agree, except that I was referring to the world at large. I have heard the "is Lady Gaga talented/worth listening to/interesting" discussion among different groups of friends, and have even heard complete strangers discussing it. Sure, Amanda ultimately struck up the discussion here.... but, this is a DD/AFP forum, so of course she'd probably have influence over the fact that we're discussing Gaga. I just wanted to clear up what I meant.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2009, 02:23:36 AM »

I actually don't hear Lady GaGa get talked about all that much. The only time I see her mentioned is on here, or on some trashy gossip website. But when I do here anything about her, it's not about her music at all, it's debating whether or not she has a penis, or her complete lack of clothing, etc.
If you go by the logic of "how talented you are = the amount of people that talk about you", Paris Hilton is one of the most talented people in the world.

I think Lady GaGa is a smart woman. Her music is no different to any other pop star going around, but she's getting her name out there. She is the new Marilyn Manson, and fucking kudos to both of them for being able to pull it off
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2009, 03:14:29 AM »

It bugs me when people get down on Lady Gaga for being a pop artist. She is a very talented musician, as one can see from her early stuff and acoustic covers of her songs. She has an amazing voice and a wonderful handle on the piano. And she decided she wanted to make pop music. Good for her. I think real art is what the artist makes of it. True, she has become very mainstream, but it's all her own creation. Rather than saying she's sold out, I think that she's actually working the system in a way. The fact that she clearly could, and has in the past, make music that isn't "pop music," suggests that she knows this, and is either writing something she loves the sound of and is great dance music, or is writing this music knowing that she can make a shitload of money off of it. Either way, I can respect that. I think that people get way to wrapped up in the idea of mainstream and popular music. Just because a lot of people think its fantastic, doesn't mean that you need to think its shit. If you do, then you should have other reasons for doing so, that aren't related to how popular this artist is. That makes you just as bad as the people who like her just because she is popular.

She's an artist, she's making money. She's not killing puppies or anything. I think people should just give her a break.

Why does her music exist except to make her into a celebrity? Why does anyone like it except for it's unsubtle gratuitous sex appeal?

If you argue that it's just entertainment for entertainments sake then I have to be honest, you and I have very different definitions of entertainment.
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peppamintdynamo

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2009, 03:29:42 AM »

It bugs me when people get down on Lady Gaga for being a pop artist. She is a very talented musician, as one can see from her early stuff and acoustic covers of her songs. She has an amazing voice and a wonderful handle on the piano. And she decided she wanted to make pop music. Good for her. I think real art is what the artist makes of it. True, she has become very mainstream, but it's all her own creation. Rather than saying she's sold out, I think that she's actually working the system in a way. The fact that she clearly could, and has in the past, make music that isn't "pop music," suggests that she knows this, and is either writing something she loves the sound of and is great dance music, or is writing this music knowing that she can make a shitload of money off of it. Either way, I can respect that. I think that people get way to wrapped up in the idea of mainstream and popular music. Just because a lot of people think its fantastic, doesn't mean that you need to think its shit. If you do, then you should have other reasons for doing so, that aren't related to how popular this artist is. That makes you just as bad as the people who like her just because she is popular.

She's an artist, she's making money. She's not killing puppies or anything. I think people should just give her a break.

Why does her music exist except to make her into a celebrity? Why does anyone like it except for it's unsubtle gratuitous sex appeal?

If you argue that it's just entertainment for entertainments sake then I have to be honest, you and I have very different definitions of entertainment.

I'm a theatre major, I don't really believe in entertainment for entertainments sake.

You'll have to excuse me, I'm about to fall asleep. Anyway, I like her because honestly, I think she is sending a message. Paparazzi for example, is clearly a commentary on how fame-obsessed our society is. Im not saying that there isn't self-reflexion there as well, but I wouldnt say it's only got unsubtle gratuitous sex appeal. This is pretty clear from the performance piece she put together for the VMAs.

I'm not going to say that every one of her songs has a message. Maybe they do, but I don't hear them. Some of them are just examples of good dance music. But still, I think especially when you watch the videos that go with her songs, you can see she's definitely trying to convey a message. I think a big problem people come up against is they only listen to her, and they don't see the videos. She's a performer. Her videos clearly reflect this. Bad Romance is a good example of a kick ass music video.

Now, I shall go to sleep. Hopefully this wasn't too incoherent.


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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2009, 04:52:38 AM »

I actually don't hear Lady GaGa get talked about all the much. The only time I see her mentioned is on here, or on some trashy gossip website. But when I do here anything about her, it's not about her music at all, it's debating whether or not she has a penis, or her complete lack of clothing, etc.
If you go by the logic of "how talented you are = the amount of people that talk about you", Paris Hilton is one of the most talented people in the world.

I think Lady GaGa is a smart woman. Her music is no different to any other pop star going around, but she's getting her name out there. She is the new Marilyn Manson, and fucking kudos to both of them for being able to pull it off

I'd agree with you, and in the same way I think Manson is an artist, simply because Brian Warner is NOT Marilyn Manson, and Stefani Germanotta is NOT Lady Gaga. They've created characters, just like actors do - just like Amanda did with The 8 Foot Bride. Now I'm not saying we should compare her to Amanda, and obviously she's not Daniel Day Lewis - there isn't a comparison to be made there. I'm simply saying, that she's done something that most people would consider to be an artistic venture . . . if it were outside the realm of pop, but because she's decided to make it something mainstream everyone has decided that now that negates her worth, and personally I think that's a load of shit. She's obviously a creative person, why tool on that?

OKAY - seriously - I need to shut the fuck up about Lady Gaga now.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2009, 06:00:45 AM »

I'm simply saying, that she's done something that most people would consider to be an artistic venture . . . if it were outside the realm of pop, but because she's decided to make it something mainstream everyone has decided that now that negates her worth, and personally I think that's a load of shit. She's obviously a creative person, why tool on that?
There definitely are a lot of people out there who are complete snobs and think anything mainstream is so below them, or will accuse anybody who starts making money when once they were a struggling artist as a total sellout. I find those kinds of attitudes to be extremely irritating. That whole "holier than thou" thing is a real turn off.

But, I guess what I'm really trying to work out is, what makes Lady GaGa so worthy of all this attention. Why so many Lady GaGa topics? Why would Amanda write a song about her? But, most of all, what is it that she's done that's so different (music wise) to other pop stars like Christina Aguilera, or Pink, or The Veronica's that gives her so much more respect?
Why doesn't Bette Midler get a ukulele song, damn it!







It's the penis thing, isn't it?
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2009, 06:44:23 AM »

PS. In regard to the great art debate, and just pushing Lady GaGa to the side for a minute, I wanted to throw my two cents in


I don't think anybody has the authority to decide what is art and what isn't. Art is like beauty. Everybody has a different opinion on what makes something perfect or beautiful.
Some people think the blonde, big titted bimbo look is beautiful, but I think it's bland and boring.
I happen to think Amanda is beautiful, others think she's a frightening, hairy bull dyke.


Who's right?
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insignifikunt

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2009, 07:27:31 AM »

I'm simply saying, that she's done something that most people would consider to be an artistic venture . . . if it were outside the realm of pop, but because she's decided to make it something mainstream everyone has decided that now that negates her worth, and personally I think that's a load of shit. She's obviously a creative person, why tool on that?
There definitely are a lot of people out there who are complete snobs and think anything mainstream is so below them, or will accuse anybody who starts making money when once they were a struggling artist as a total sellout. I find those kinds of attitudes to be extremely irritating. That whole "holier than thou" thing is a real turn off.

But, I guess what I'm really trying to work out is, what makes Lady GaGa so worthy of all this attention. Why so many Lady GaGa topics? Why would Amanda write a song about her? But, most of all, what is it that she's done that's so different (music wise) to other pop stars like Christina Aguilera, or Pink, or The Veronica's that gives her so much more respect?
Why doesn't Bette Midler get a ukulele song, damn it!







It's the penis thing, isn't it?

Bwuahahahahaha! I think it is the penis thing.

I think we should lobby Amanda for a Bette Midler cover! The Rose FTW!
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insignifikunt

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2009, 07:35:07 AM »

PS. In regard to the great art debate, and just pushing Lady GaGa to the side for a minute, I wanted to throw my two cents in


I don't think anybody has the authority to decide what is art and what isn't. Art is like beauty. Everybody has a different opinion on what makes something perfect or beautiful.
Some people think the blonde, big titted bimbo look is beautiful, but I think it's bland and boring.
I happen to think Amanda is beautiful, others think she's a frightening, hairy bull dyke.


Who's right?

I also have to say I agree with this 100%. No one has a right to say what's art and what isn't, what's beautiful and what's ugly. I think the majority of my friends wouldn't give Amanda Palmer the time of day but they probably all have Lady GaGa on their iPods. Doesn't mean Amanda Palmer isn't awesome, they just don't actually search for music, they are happy being spoon fed. Next week GaGa may be out and someone new with brilliant marketing/packaging campaign will be on everyone's lips.

The fact I don't like Lady GaGa doesn't mean she isn't awesome (to other people) and can't be considered an artist/musician/songwriter.

I think the Amanda Palmer's of the world are far more sustainable in their careers than the pop stars. Sure she makes a fraction of the amount of money and fame that the pop stars have, but her fans are likely to stick around a great deal longer. This may not apply for GaGa, maybe she does have a sustainable career ahead of her purely for the fact she is considered a performance artist along with a singer songwriter, but I'd put my money on 100 Amanda Palmer's before any Lady GaGa's. .... Still doesn't mean what the GaGa's create isn't art...
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2009, 09:49:27 AM »

I'm pretty sure if Mandy Moore had the Dolls listed as one of her influences on her Myspace page, there would be another 29 page thread discussing weather Amanda should throw in a cover of "Candy" at her NYE show.

Ke$ha lists the Dolls, AND Regina, AND Neutral Milk Hotel among others as her influences.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2009, 12:10:35 PM »

Art is in the space somewhere between the intent of the creator and the intent of the observer, in my eyes.  This allows for a lot of ambiguities to exist -- for me to look at Lady Gaga's videos and absorb it as art at times, by appreciating the lighting, costuming, movement; for someone else to look at Lady Gaga, only hear dumb lyrics and flash and see it as artificial and preposterous; for me to go back to that same video and see it as silly, fun, something to get drunk to.

For those of you who are concerned that Lady Gaga primarily uses her talents to generate excesses of income (a claim I disagree with), do you consider something like this (or if you don't like this, something better executed) art?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OLSsswr6z9Y" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/OLSsswr6z9Y</a>

Can advertisements never be considered art?

To the question, why does her music exist except to make her a celebrity, WE ONLY KNOW ABOUT HER BECAUSE SHE IS A CELEBRITY (unless you went to NYU, were examining NYU pop-dance clubs).  Perhaps, before she broke through, she was looking for the means to make the very same grand statements of fashion and song that she does now.  And all of her music does have subtle messages, you're just not looking hard enough -- she's claimed Pokerface is about her bisexuality, Speechless is about asking her father to get surgery... etc, etc.  She's abstract in her lyrics.

To, an artist can only be creative when faced with hardship?  First of all, that's assuming that just because Lady Gaga isn't in current financial hardship, she's just floating by without angst... which no one knows.  There are a lot of assumptions made about her intentions and feelings that goes beyond what she says in interviews.  Why?  Why do people not trust her, but do trust a smaller artist?  Just because she's big?  What do we define hardship as? 

If the lyrics are soooo hard to swallow, consider: "I am a plagiarist/Apologist/A walrus, gecko, lizard- oh oh!"  (if that is in fact what that says)
or It runs in the family I come by it honestly do what you want 'cause who knows it might fill me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Fill me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up".  There are a lot of lyrics of Amanda's that upon a first listen, and a second listen, and a third, cause a lot of head scratching -- and we take the time to figure out the references because we're big fans.  Just because Gaga's lyrics don't make sense to us, doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't some reference she's throwing in there that we're not getting.

Also:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mVWesp6De_E" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mVWesp6De_E</a>
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2009, 12:29:34 PM »

Methinks it boild down to the Arts and Crafts debate:
Art exists primarily to speak to its receiver through various media forming a personal connection.
Crafts exist primarily to be sold, be it a cd, a ring, a book, a woven rug or handmade paper.

Though music can connect to people in the same way that Art does the majority of musicians are out their to sell their music/tour etc first and foremost.
It's easy to spot the ones who want the $£ in the Music Industry and who just want to be able to play their songs and live as comfortable as say.. rent/food/shelter

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2009, 12:39:36 PM »

Or.... musicians who want their music to reach as many ears as possible, that's also a possibility.  Wanting exposure and wanting to be recognized.  Wanting fame isn't necessarily synonymous with wanting money.  People search for power, recognition, self-worth, and happiness (AND creating happiness in the world and for others) in many ways.

Like I've said before, an artist who is an attention seeker is not a bad thing.

The only way to pinpoint who wants money and who just wants to be able to play their songs and be "comfortable" is the difference between who has broken through and who hasn't... Regina Spektor, in some ways has reached, "pop" status and she can sell out with the best of them, but many consider her art worthwhile.  The Beatles.  Frank Sinatra.   Just because they were famous and made tons of money and had tons of fame doesn't negate the lasting quality of their music and the way they continue to inspire.  And I think it's the mainstream consumer's fault, not necessarily the artist's that someone of that quality hasn't exploded all over MTV yet.

And maybe the indie consumer who says that a good artist is the one who doesn't market themselves and doesn't try to make themselves into a superstar, but rather, just "play their songs".
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2009, 12:44:11 PM »

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2009, 12:55:57 PM »

Methinks it boild down to the Arts and Crafts debate:
Art exists primarily to speak to its receiver through various media forming a personal connection.
Crafts exist primarily to be sold, be it a cd, a ring, a book, a woven rug or handmade paper.

Though music can connect to people in the same way that Art does the majority of musicians are out their to sell their music/tour etc first and foremost.
It's easy to spot the ones who want the $£ in the Music Industry and who just want to be able to play their songs and live as comfortable as say.. rent/food/shelter

What are your thoughts on Andy Warhol?
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2009, 01:11:17 PM »

Methinks it boild down to the Arts and Crafts debate:
Art exists primarily to speak to its receiver through various media forming a personal connection.
Crafts exist primarily to be sold, be it a cd, a ring, a book, a woven rug or handmade paper.

Though music can connect to people in the same way that Art does the majority of musicians are out their to sell their music/tour etc first and foremost.
It's easy to spot the ones who want the $£ in the Music Industry and who just want to be able to play their songs and live as comfortable as say.. rent/food/shelter

What are your thoughts on Andy Warhol?

It's a great David Bowie song

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2009, 01:18:34 PM »

Yes it is!
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2009, 03:29:06 PM »

Ke$ha lists the Dolls, AND Regina, AND Neutral Milk Hotel among others as her influences.

I've got no idea who that is. I'm guessing she's not in the same league of fame as Lady GaGa, or Britney Spears, or Many Moore etc. Having said that though, if somebody started a thread about how much she loves the Dolls, it's very likely people would start forming an opinion on her and listening to her music more.

I'm not quite sure the relevance of pointing out Regina and Neutral Milk Hotel as her influences though. I am aware that Amanda loves them both, but....what?


My whole point is, people are going to feel more inclined to like a person once they find they share a love of something.

"Oh my god, 'insert name here' loves the Dresden Dolls! Me too! Maybe she's not as horrible as I originally thought..."

It's the same as how people who love Amanda are going to start listening to the same music as her. It makes them feel connected to her in some way. It's gives them something to have in common with an artist that they love.
It happens
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2009, 06:06:56 PM »

Ke$ha lists the Dolls, AND Regina, AND Neutral Milk Hotel among others as her influences.

I've got no idea who that is. I'm guessing she's not in the same league of fame as Lady GaGa, or Britney Spears, or Many Moore etc. Having said that though, if somebody started a thread about how much she loves the Dolls, it's very likely people would start forming an opinion on her and listening to her music more.

I'm not quite sure the relevance of pointing out Regina and Neutral Milk Hotel as her influences though. I am aware that Amanda loves them both, but....what?


My whole point is, people are going to feel more inclined to like a person once they find they share a love of something.

"Oh my god, 'insert name here' loves the Dresden Dolls! Me too! Maybe she's not as horrible as I originally thought..."

It's the same as how people who love Amanda are going to start listening to the same music as her. It makes them feel connected to her in some way. It's gives them something to have in common with an artist that they love.
It happens

i don't think the fact that lady gaga likes the dresden dolls will make anyone HERE more inclined to like her than if she didn't like the dolls. people here are opinionated and smart, they're not just going to like Gaga for a silly reason like that. there are obviously still many people on the box who cant stand Gaga at all, even knowing that she's a fan of the dolls. they dont seem quite inclined to like her though they share a common love with her.

Ke$ha is breaking through on the scene. i've never liked her, and i still don't after finding out she likes the dolls or regina or NMH.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2009, 01:57:44 AM »

i don't think the fact that lady gaga likes the dresden dolls will make anyone HERE more inclined to like her than if she didn't like the dolls. people here are opinionated and smart, they're not just going to like Gaga for a silly reason like that. there are obviously still many people on the box who cant stand Gaga at all, even knowing that she's a fan of the dolls. they dont seem quite inclined to like her though they share a common love with her.

Ke$ha is breaking through on the scene. i've never liked her, and i still don't after finding out she likes the dolls or regina or NMH.
That's not what I said. What I said was

Quote
it didn't seem that GaGa was really discussed on this forum until there was a Dresden Dolls/Amanda Palmer link. Then pretty much everyone had an opinion how talented or awful they thought she was.

and

Quote
if somebody started a thread about how much she loves the Dolls, it's very likely people would start forming an opinion on her

It's very clear that there are many people on this board that do not like Lady GaGa's music, but pretty much everybody has weighed in on the conversation. What I was trying to point out was this whole massive explosion of GaGa all over the board started because there was a thread started about her liking the Dolls. If it wasn't for that thread, none of this would even be spoken about. There wouldn't be a song with Amanda on the ukulele singing about her, and yet another thread re-writing Poker Face.

But, contrary to what you might believe, people do form opinions on others based on a shared love of something. Have you ever seen somebody wearing a Dolls shirt and felt a bit of a connection with them? Before you've even spoken to them it's in your head that they must be a pretty cool person. It's just human nature. Being that way doesn't make anybody "less smart"
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2009, 02:17:55 AM »

i don't think the fact that lady gaga likes the dresden dolls will make anyone HERE more inclined to like her than if she didn't like the dolls. people here are opinionated and smart, they're not just going to like Gaga for a silly reason like that. there are obviously still many people on the box who cant stand Gaga at all, even knowing that she's a fan of the dolls. they dont seem quite inclined to like her though they share a common love with her.

Ke$ha is breaking through on the scene. i've never liked her, and i still don't after finding out she likes the dolls or regina or NMH.
That's not what I said. What I said was

Quote
it didn't seem that GaGa was really discussed on this forum until there was a Dresden Dolls/Amanda Palmer link. Then pretty much everyone had an opinion how talented or awful they thought she was.

and

Quote
if somebody started a thread about how much she loves the Dolls, it's very likely people would start forming an opinion on her

It's very clear that there are many people on this board that do not like Lady GaGa's music, but pretty much everybody has weighed in on the conversation. What I was trying to point out was this whole massive explosion of GaGa all over the board started because there was a thread started about her liking the Dolls. If it wasn't for that thread, none of this would even be spoken about. There wouldn't be a song with Amanda on the ukulele singing about her, and yet another thread re-writing Poker Face.

But, contrary to what you might believe, people do form opinions on others based on a shared love of something. Have you ever seen somebody wearing a Dolls shirt and felt a bit of a connection with them? Before you've even spoken to them it's in your head that they must be a pretty cool person. It's just human nature. Being that way doesn't make anybody "less smart"


i agree with you when you say people form opinions on others based on common interests or things, i'm just saying that i dont think anyone HERE will be inclined to like gaga more just because she likes the dresden dolls.

but what is the relevance in saying that if it werent for certain threads then she wouldnt be being talked about? what does this have to do with gaga herself? i still think somewhere on this board, even if it hadnt been for the dolls mentioned under her influences, someone would have started a thread about her. amanda herself hasnt even mentioned the fact that gaga is a fan of the dolls, which is why i dont think that this "explosion" occured over the whole dolls thing. amanda is interested in the controversy surrounding gaga's intentions on art/music/performance.

i've got myself completely confused now.
i think it's because when you said "My whole point is, people are going to feel more inclined to like a person once they find they share a love of something" i thought you were implying that people on the board have taken an automatic liking to lady gaga just because she likes the dolls, and thats what i was trying to defend.

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2009, 02:46:48 AM »

i agree with you when you say people form opinions on others based on common interests or things, i'm just saying that i dont think anyone HERE will be inclined to like gaga more just because she likes the dresden dolls.

but what is the relevance in saying that if it werent for certain threads then she wouldnt be being talked about? what does this have to do with gaga herself? i still think somewhere on this board, even if it hadnt been for the dolls mentioned under her influences, someone would have started a thread about her. amanda herself hasnt even mentioned the fact that gaga is a fan of the dolls, which is why i dont think that this "explosion" occured over the whole dolls thing. amanda is interested in the controversy surrounding gaga's intentions on art/music/performance.

i've got myself completely confused now.
i think it's because when you said "My whole point is, people are going to feel more inclined to like a person once they find they share a love of something" i thought you were implying that people on the board have taken an automatic liking to lady gaga just because she likes the dolls, and thats what i was trying to defend.


I'm not trying to pin point anybody with any of the things I've been saying. It's just a general statement.

Quote
but what is the relevance in saying that if it werent for certain threads then she wouldnt be being talked about?
It was in response to this:

I think that the fact so many people seem to be discussing her... not just here, but in general... and her merits, means something. I mean... if she were just a hack, why would we be talking about if she is/isn't talented so much?

I was just pointing out why I thought so many people on this board were talking about her

Quote
which is why i dont think that this "explosion" occured over the whole dolls thing. amanda is interested in the controversy surrounding gaga's intentions on art/music/performance.

I reckon that's what it's all about now, sure, but I get the feeling that Amanda first started to take notice because of that thread, and things just grew from there
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2009, 03:03:15 AM »

I think, the way you express yourself is a real art  :)

If i thought something about Lady Gaga, my words would be rhymless and out of turn.I might talk and discuss about it and then suddenly I'd forget it all.
I think the way the people express themselves,decides if they're artist or not. Simply,you have chosen to write a song and express your thoughts with us via music.And the song started to turn in my head and made me think about it.
I think the person who can say anything in a unique and attractive way, can be counted as an artist. Though some pop chicks confuse saying something in a pleasant/attractive way with looking attractive :)
I'm checking my wmp playlist and can't see any musician who is just famous for his/her good looks. They may be good looking or sexy,but their physical appearences never interfere with what they try to say. I don't think i would love Tori Amos again,if she tried to shake her ass and danced and whatever with a huge group of dancers, while she was singing her song. Then nobody wouldn't be interested in what she said. The real art bewitches the eyes by itself,not by the way its creator looks like. So i don't think Lady Gaga does something so important to listen to her carefully,neither does Katy Perry. That's why they try to look prettier, because that's the only way for them to have more attention and earn some easier money.


(I know I'm not good enough to talk on such issues because English is not my native language.)
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2009, 05:38:44 AM »

I think, the way you express yourself is a real art  :)

If i thought something about Lady Gaga, my words would be rhymless and out of turn.I might talk and discuss about it and then suddenly I'd forget it all.
I think the way the people express themselves,decides if they're artist or not. Simply,you have chosen to write a song and express your thoughts with us via music.And the song started to turn in my head and made me think about it.
I think the person who can say anything in a unique and attractive way, can be counted as an artist. Though some pop chicks confuse saying something in a pleasant/attractive way with looking attractive :)
I'm checking my wmp playlist and can't see any musician who is just famous for his/her good looks. They may be good looking or sexy,but their physical appearences never interfere with what they try to say. I don't think i would love Tori Amos again,if she tried to shake her ass and danced and whatever with a huge group of dancers, while she was singing her song. Then nobody wouldn't be interested in what she said. The real art bewitches the eyes by itself,not by the way its creator looks like. So i don't think Lady Gaga does something so important to listen to her carefully,neither does Katy Perry. That's why they try to look prettier, because that's the only way for them to have more attention and earn some easier money.


(I know I'm not good enough to talk on such issues because English is not my native language.)
But can't creating a persona be part of the art form? I think that Gaga is a character - that's what makes her intriguing.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2009, 05:57:39 AM »

Ive probably reiterated a lot of the points and ideas already said, but i havent really said anything previous to this, soooo!

I think we all have the same ideas about expression being art - even if the reasoning behind it/expression isnt understood personally. Just think, Stravinsky's Rite Of Spring caused a riot because of its apparent controversy when it was performed at the premier - it took time for him to be accepted and his ideas understood. He presented his music in the opposite way of the traditions of romanticism. These non-pretty ideas of love, duty and self expression were his vision of humanity. Im not saying Gaga is like Stravinsky (at all), but i believe she has her own artistic ideas that we may not understand yet. She has a vision, is creative, composes, and entertains - which is a form of art whether we personally like it or not. Sometimes taking a trip into the unknown is the first step before we can gain an insight. I personally think her early work is a lot better than the new stuff, there's a good video on youtube from the Cutting Room in 2006 which is worth watching - listen to 'Fever' its the 2nd song on the video. The reasoning behind her rather drastic change could be her obsession with fame, as well as Bowie and 70s glam (the contributions to her bizarre outfits). Her reinvention has clearly been successful though, whether we love or hate her.

What we need to keep in mind is that not everything will always appeal to us, but that doesnt mean its terrible or invalid. Think of a couple of the ideas of the 20th century, dadaism, futurism, surrealism - some people thought/think these were pointless, others believe the opposite.  Either way art is still art if it provokes a reaction - even if it isnt the desired reaction of the artist. Something to keep in mind:

'If something is boring after two minutes, try it for four. If it is still boring, try it for eight, sixteen, thirty two, and so on. Eventually one discovers that it is not boring at all but very interesting' (John Cage)
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2009, 06:52:11 AM »

I think my issue with GaGa is she is talented, she can write and play music and she has an incredible voice but she wastes it making music that sounds like everything else on top 40 radio. Maybe she does have a message, maybe she wants stardom to get that message across, but I feel like she has sacrificed something along the way. Honestly you can't really say her music sounds any different to anything else you are going to hear when you turn on any commercial radio station. The ONLY reason she is such a celebrity is because of her unsual image which brings me to my next point.

I think she relies too much on sex appeal to sell music as well. I know a bunch of you are going to come back at me and say that's part of the package but it doesn't need to be. There are a lot of people out there who write great pop music and don't have to dance around half naked to sell it. I just think that when people start dancing around half naked, more often than not it means the music is not strong enough to stand on it's own.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2009, 08:00:30 AM »

For what its worth, I'm definitely in the Lady Gaga big yellow balloon. I think she's completely reinvigorated an otherwise lifeless pop spectrum, and some of the tracks on her album demonstrate a great love for the history of pop and a lovely sense of humour about the whole thing.

Plus, when I put on my art bore hat, I really dig the techno-fetished, Gary Numan man/machine stuff that litters her videos.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2009, 08:27:49 AM »

I think my issue with GaGa is she is talented, she can write and play music and she has an incredible voice but she wastes it making music that sounds like everything else on top 40 radio. Maybe she does have a message, maybe she wants stardom to get that message across, but I feel like she has sacrificed something along the way. Honestly you can't really say her music sounds any different to anything else you are going to hear when you turn on any commercial radio station. The ONLY reason she is such a celebrity is because of her unsual image which brings me to my next point.

I completely agree - she's sacrificed her best bits along the way to be famous, which is why im not particularly keen on her music now. But then again that was her dream, and the majority of people (who enjoy the top 40) would most likely say her music now is better than it was when she was known as Stefani Germanotta, because her music appeals to that audience. However i do occasionally find myself listening to her stuff to try and pick out what it is about her that is so strangely addictive - most likely, as Ryan James said, its her character, because she's quite quirky and fun. Despite my lovehate for her music I do think she's pretty darn fabulous! - especially when its just her and a piano.

This is her older stuff that is lovely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8CUn2VsgzU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN5f50_4cl0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b5mgPmw2zw

i wish she stayed like this.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2009, 12:15:09 PM »

I think my issue with GaGa is she is talented, she can write and play music and she has an incredible voice but she wastes it making music that sounds like everything else on top 40 radio. Maybe she does have a message, maybe she wants stardom to get that message across, but I feel like she has sacrificed something along the way. Honestly you can't really say her music sounds any different to anything else you are going to hear when you turn on any commercial radio station. The ONLY reason she is such a celebrity is because of her unsual image which brings me to my next point.

I completely agree - she's sacrificed her best bits along the way to be famous, which is why im not particularly keen on her music now. But then again that was her dream, and the majority of people (who enjoy the top 40) would most likely say her music now is better than it was when she was known as Stefani Germanotta, because her music appeals to that audience. However i do occasionally find myself listening to her stuff to try and pick out what it is about her that is so strangely addictive - most likely, as Ryan James said, its her character, because she's quite quirky and fun. Despite my lovehate for her music I do think she's pretty darn fabulous! - especially when its just her and a piano.

This is her older stuff that is lovely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8CUn2VsgzU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN5f50_4cl0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b5mgPmw2zw

i wish she stayed like this.

The last one is especially fantastic.

It is sad that she's changed as an artist, but I  have to respect the fact that she clearly made that choice. Though I agree her earlier stuff is way better, she clearly has a lot of merit as an artist. As for being over sexual, I think it has a lot to do with her influences, among other things. Plus, isn't that a bit of a statement about todays society?
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2009, 03:11:31 PM »

I think, the way you express yourself is a real art  :)

If i thought something about Lady Gaga, my words would be rhymless and out of turn.I might talk and discuss about it and then suddenly I'd forget it all.
I think the way the people express themselves,decides if they're artist or not. Simply,you have chosen to write a song and express your thoughts with us via music.And the song started to turn in my head and made me think about it.
I think the person who can say anything in a unique and attractive way, can be counted as an artist. Though some pop chicks confuse saying something in a pleasant/attractive way with looking attractive :)
I'm checking my wmp playlist and can't see any musician who is just famous for his/her good looks. They may be good looking or sexy,but their physical appearences never interfere with what they try to say. I don't think i would love Tori Amos again,if she tried to shake her ass and danced and whatever with a huge group of dancers, while she was singing her song. Then nobody wouldn't be interested in what she said. The real art bewitches the eyes by itself,not by the way its creator looks like. So i don't think Lady Gaga does something so important to listen to her carefully,neither does Katy Perry. That's why they try to look prettier, because that's the only way for them to have more attention and earn some easier money.


(I know I'm not good enough to talk on such issues because English is not my native language.)
But can't creating a persona be part of the art form? I think that Gaga is a character - that's what makes her intriguing.

of course it's a way of expressing herself too, but i don't think it's completely about the art. all of us try to leave a good expression into the minds of the others. but as i told before, the piece of art is always more important for me than who has created it. i'm not used to judge a person by his/her physical appearence. i have written my license thesis on the poetess Sylvia Plath, as you know she has passed away of suicidal in 1963.it was impossible to see her face alive or on tv, there were only blurred old pictures of her. though, just by reading her poems, i thought she was a lovely beautiful young lady. besides even if she was a messy ugly housewife, her poems and novel wouldn't be less impressive. i think when people think what they say or make might be ineffectual, they try to take more attention to their appearences.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2009, 09:34:50 PM »

i agree with you when you say people form opinions on others based on common interests or things, i'm just saying that i dont think anyone HERE will be inclined to like gaga more just because she likes the dresden dolls.

but what is the relevance in saying that if it werent for certain threads then she wouldnt be being talked about? what does this have to do with gaga herself? i still think somewhere on this board, even if it hadnt been for the dolls mentioned under her influences, someone would have started a thread about her. amanda herself hasnt even mentioned the fact that gaga is a fan of the dolls, which is why i dont think that this "explosion" occured over the whole dolls thing. amanda is interested in the controversy surrounding gaga's intentions on art/music/performance.

i've got myself completely confused now.
i think it's because when you said "My whole point is, people are going to feel more inclined to like a person once they find they share a love of something" i thought you were implying that people on the board have taken an automatic liking to lady gaga just because she likes the dolls, and thats what i was trying to defend.


I'm not trying to pin point anybody with any of the things I've been saying. It's just a general statement.

Quote
but what is the relevance in saying that if it werent for certain threads then she wouldnt be being talked about?
It was in response to this:

I think that the fact so many people seem to be discussing her... not just here, but in general... and her merits, means something. I mean... if she were just a hack, why would we be talking about if she is/isn't talented so much?

I was just pointing out why I thought so many people on this board were talking about her

Quote
which is why i dont think that this "explosion" occured over the whole dolls thing. amanda is interested in the controversy surrounding gaga's intentions on art/music/performance.

I reckon that's what it's all about now, sure, but I get the feeling that Amanda first started to take notice because of that thread, and things just grew from there

I'm referring to things like this: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/musical/2009/04/27/090427crmu_music_frerejones

Clearly, this woman is making people talk.
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Amanda Palmer

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #73 on: December 22, 2009, 12:44:43 AM »

my friend sasha (who i knew from playing bass guitar in king missile) emailed in:

I saw your song blog and while I loved the song, I can't agree entirely
with the sentiment.

Yes, there is a music continuum, and yes, I don't think it's really part
of the artist's job to figure out where they fall on it or how their work
measures up. That's for fans, critics and posterity to decide. Madonna,
Palmer and Gaga should all do their work and not worry about whether it's
art or product, durable or disposable. Just try and make the best work you
can.

BUT that doesn't mean the work is all of the same artistic quality and
value. And in the same way that I wouldn't call a Twinkie a great pastry,
I wouldn't call a Madonna or Gaga song a work of art. To my soul, ear and
heart, that kind of post-modern pop music- with all the vocal processing
(can we please lay off the Vocoder for a while, people?), mind-numbingly
familiar melodic and rhythmic conventions and superficial S/M veneer- is
the Happy Meal of musical experiences: millions (even billions!) of people
may love it, but that don't make it good. Or art.

I think there is a sort of backlash going on these days, where we've swung
from a pre-modern idea of art (art is produced by masters who have
rigorously subjected themselves to study and practice along a very strict
set of parameters) to a post-modern one (it's art if we say so,
nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah). While on the one hand, it's bad to have an
academy that's too rigid (case in point: Sandman- comic book AND literary
masterpiece. They said it couldn't be done!), I think it's also a mistake
to throw out the academy all together, because as a society we need
limitations, standards and ideals in order to knock down the next set of
barriers that keep us alienated, thwarted and confused. Work that feels
like art to me doesn't just make me smile, or shake my ass. It validates a
deep sense of identity, creates possibilities in my mind and sets off a
shitstorm of inspiration and hope. The funny thing is that I get that
feeling from, say, Bill Frisell's cover of Madonna's "Have a Little Faith"
but not from the original version. Or from "Girl Anachronism" but not from
"Bad Romance".

To me (and maybe this is because I'm super-old) Lady Gaga is just a
Leigh-Bowery-via-Vegas ripoff, which infuriates me because the really
fabulous, transgressive performers who pioneered the styles that Gaga
claims are completely original to her are pretty much all dead now. They
died of the Plague, mostly, and we lost some of the wittiest, most
creative souls who ever wore a corset, a molded plastic dress or a pair of
sky-high fetish heels. We have all been deprived of the beautiful,
twisted, glamorous works they would be making right now if they had lived.

Obviously, when you sell 2 million records in 2009, you can say what you
want about yourself and people will lap it up and spit it right back out.
But personally I'm tired of hearing 110-lb usual suspect masochist blonds
talk about how they're breaking down the beauty standard, and challenging
the status quo, and creating amazingly transgressive, original art.
They're not.

But you are.

xxx
Sasha
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #74 on: December 22, 2009, 01:47:41 AM »

i agree with you when you say people form opinions on others based on common interests or things, i'm just saying that i dont think anyone HERE will be inclined to like gaga more just because she likes the dresden dolls.

but what is the relevance in saying that if it werent for certain threads then she wouldnt be being talked about? what does this have to do with gaga herself? i still think somewhere on this board, even if it hadnt been for the dolls mentioned under her influences, someone would have started a thread about her. amanda herself hasnt even mentioned the fact that gaga is a fan of the dolls, which is why i dont think that this "explosion" occured over the whole dolls thing. amanda is interested in the controversy surrounding gaga's intentions on art/music/performance.

i've got myself completely confused now.
i think it's because when you said "My whole point is, people are going to feel more inclined to like a person once they find they share a love of something" i thought you were implying that people on the board have taken an automatic liking to lady gaga just because she likes the dolls, and thats what i was trying to defend.


I'm not trying to pin point anybody with any of the things I've been saying. It's just a general statement.

Quote
but what is the relevance in saying that if it werent for certain threads then she wouldnt be being talked about?
It was in response to this:

I think that the fact so many people seem to be discussing her... not just here, but in general... and her merits, means something. I mean... if she were just a hack, why would we be talking about if she is/isn't talented so much?

I was just pointing out why I thought so many people on this board were talking about her

Quote
which is why i dont think that this "explosion" occured over the whole dolls thing. amanda is interested in the controversy surrounding gaga's intentions on art/music/performance.

I reckon that's what it's all about now, sure, but I get the feeling that Amanda first started to take notice because of that thread, and things just grew from there

alright, gotcha  O0

i wuz confozd
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Ryan James

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2009, 05:58:20 AM »

and now for your enjoyment and scrutiny - some quotes from Mr. Andy Warhol, whose works are housed in such places as The Art Institute of Chicago, The Guggenhein (NYC, and Spain), The Metropolitan Museum of Art, MFA Boston, MFA Houston, Museum of Modern Art NYC, National Gallery D.C., San Francisco Museum of Art, Yale Art Gallery, and hundreds more fine galleries and museums internationally.

An artist is somebody who produces things that people don't need to have

Being good in business is the most fascinating kind of art. Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art.

Don't pay any attention to what they write about you. Just measure it in inches.

I am a deeply superficial person.

I like boring things.

I love Los Angeles. I love Hollywood. They're beautiful. Everybody's plastic, but I love plastic. I want to be plastic.

I'd asked around 10 or 15 people for suggestions. Finally one lady friend asked the right question, 'Well, what do you love most?' That's how I started painting money.

If you want to know all about Andy Warhol, just look at the surface of my paintings and films and me, and there I am. There's nothing behind it.

Once you 'got' Pop, you could never see a sign again the same way again. And once you thought Pop, you could never see America the same way again.

My idea of a good picture is one that's in focus and of a famous person

ironically, and for the sake of fairness and recognition, he also said this:
I've decided something; Commercial things really do stink. As soon as it becomes commercial for a mass market it really stinks.
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Paul Jon

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2009, 10:51:53 AM »

“Class is part of the meaninglessness of art,” says Lyotard. But the futility, and some would say the collapse, of subdialectic modern theory depicted in Ampersand is also evident in Astronaut, although in a more mythopoetical sense. An abundance of narratives concerning the futility of postdeconstructivist sexual identity exist.

Thus, the main theme of the works of Amanda Palmer is a self-justifying totality. Sontag promotes the use of Lacanist obscurity to attack and read class.

Therefore, if subdialectic modern theory holds, the works of Amanda Palmer are not postmodern. Sartre uses the term ‘textual structuralism’ to denote the role of the observer as artist.

It could be said that Foucault uses the term ‘textual objectivism’ to denote not narrative, as Sartre would have it, but prenarrative. The subject is contextualised into a Batailleist `powerful communication’ that includes narrativity as a reality. Thus, textual objectivism implies that the goal of the artist is significant form. La Tournier suggests that we have to choose between submaterialist discourse and Foucaultist power relations, but a number of theories concerning Batailleist `powerful communication’ may be revealed. The subject is interpolated into a textual objectivism that includes consciousness as a whole.

However, if Batailleist `powerful communication’ holds, the works of Lady Gaga are an example of self-fulfilling rationalism. The subject is contextualised into a textual objectivism that includes art as a reality.
http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/
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Hayley Fiasco!

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2009, 11:01:47 PM »

re: Sasha's email to Amanda:

Brav-fucking-o.
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #78 on: December 23, 2009, 02:09:30 AM »


To me (and maybe this is because I'm super-old) Lady Gaga is just a
Leigh-Bowery-via-Vegas ripoff, which infuriates me because the really
fabulous, transgressive performers who pioneered the styles that Gaga
claims are completely original to her are pretty much all dead now. They
died of the Plague, mostly, and we lost some of the wittiest, most
creative souls who ever wore a corset, a molded plastic dress or a pair of
sky-high fetish heels. We have all been deprived of the beautiful,
twisted, glamorous works they would be making right now if they had lived.

Obviously, when you sell 2 million records in 2009, you can say what you
want about yourself and people will lap it up and spit it right back out.
But personally I'm tired of hearing 110-lb usual suspect masochist blonds
talk about how they're breaking down the beauty standard, and challenging
the status quo, and creating amazingly transgressive, original art.
They're not.

But you are.

xxx
Sasha

These last two paragraphs kill me. Just....yes

I think I love Sasha
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #79 on: December 23, 2009, 11:20:41 PM »

To people who say Lady Gaga doesn't cite her influences and claims to be totally original... have they paid attention when she... um... cites her influences?

On MySpace:    Yoko Ono, Elvis, David Bowie, Morrissey, Queen, Robert Smith, Robert Plant, Freddy Mercury, Prince, Rod Stewart, Thomas Dolby, Depeche Mode, The Faint, Radiohead, Beck, Franz Ferdinand, The Cure, Nine Inch Nails, Grace Slick & Jefferson Airplane, Queen, Led Zep, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Talking Heads,The Scissor Sisters, The Dresden Dolls, Mika, She Wants Revenge, Janis Joplin, Jenny Lewis, Joy Division, New Order, The Killers, Justin Warfield, Chuck Berry, BuckCherry, Billy Idol, White Stripes, Strokes, Blondie, Pat Benetar, Rilo Kiley, Elton John, Jerry-Lee Lewis, John Lennon, The Beatles. Drag queens in general. Jimmy Choo. Hot Groupie chicks. Hairspray *not the musical. Black Eyeliner. Strippers. Sequins. D-I-S-C-O

We talked about The Dresden Dolls as an influence.

She has admitted before that she has been heavily influenced, in particular, by Queen and David Bowie's performance styles, and in her Ellen interview, how she wanted to dress as a kid how she felt on the inside... which was like David Bowie.

Also interesting to me, just be the striking similarities to some of Amanda Palmer's history, is her bio on her website.  http://www.ladygaga.com/bio/  (parts bolded for emphasis):

When Lady Gaga was a little girl, she would sing along on her mini plastic tape recorder to Michael Jackson and Cyndi Lauper hits and get twirled in the air in daddy’s arms to the sounds of the Rolling Stones and the Beatles. The precocious child would dance around the table at fancy Upper West Side restaurants using the breadsticks as a baton. And, she would innocently greet a new babysitter in nothing but her birthday suit.

It’s no wonder that little girl from a good Italian New York family, turned into the exhibitionist, multi-talented singer-songwriter with a flair for theatrics that she is today: Lady Gaga.

“I was always an entertainer. I was a ham as a little girl and I’m a ham today,” says Lady Gaga, 23, who made a name for herself on the Lower East Side club scene with the infectious dance-pop party song “Beautiful Dirty Rich,” and wild, theatrical, and often tongue-in-cheek “shock art” performances where Gaga – who designs and makes many of her stage outfits -- would strip down to her hand-crafted hot pants and bikini top, light cans of hairspray on fire, and strike a pose as a disco ball lowered from the ceiling to the orchestral sounds of A Clockwork Orange.

“I always loved rock and pop and theater. When I discovered Queen and David Bowie is when it really came together for me and I realized I could do all three,” says Gaga, who nicked her name from Queen’s song “Radio Gaga” and who cites rock star girlfriends, Peggy Bundy, and Donatella Versace as her fashion icons. “I look at those artists as icons in art. It’s not just about the music. It’s about the performance, the attitude, the look; it’s everything. And, that is where I live as an artist and that is what I want to accomplish.”

That goal might seem lofty, but consider the artist: Gaga is the girl who at age 4 learned piano by ear. By age 13, she had written her first piano ballad. At 14, she played open mike nights at clubs such as New York’s the Bitter End by night and was teased for her quirky, eccentric style by her Convent of the Sacred Heart School (the Manhattan private school Nicky and Paris Hilton attended) classmates by day. At age 17, she became was one of 20 kids in the world to get early admission to Tisch School of the Arts at NYU. Signed by her 20th birthday and writing songs for other artists (such as the Pussycat Dolls, and has been asked to write for a series of Interscope artists) before her debut album was even released, Lady Gaga has earned the right to reach for the sky.

“My goal as an artist is to funnel a pop record to a world in a very interesting way,” says Gaga, who wrote all of her lyrics, all of her melodies, and played most of the synth work on her album, The Fame (Streamline/KonLive/Cherrytree/Interscope). “I almost want to trick people into hanging with something that is really cool with a pop song. It’s almost like the spoonful of sugar and I’m the medicine.”

On The Fame, it’s as if Gaga took two parts dance-pop, one part electro-pop, and one part rock with a splash of disco and burlesque and generously poured it into the figurative martini glasses of the world in an effort to get everyone drunk with her Fame. “The Fame is about how anyone can feel famous,” she explains. “Pop culture is art. It doesn’t make you cool to hate pop culture, so I embraced it and you hear it all over The Fame. But, it’s a sharable fame. I want to invite you all to the party. I want people to feel a part of this lifestyle.”

The CD’s opener and first single, “Just Dance,” gets the dance floor rocking with it’s “fun, L.A., celebratory vibe.” As for the equally catchy, “Boys Boys Boys,” Gaga doesn’t mind wearing her influences on her sleeve. “I wanted to write the female version of Motley Crue’s ‘Girls Girls Girls,’ but with my own twist. I wanted to write a pop song that rockers would like.”

“Beautiful Dirty Rich” sums up her time of self-discovery, living in the Lower East Side and dabbling in drugs and the party scene. “That time, and that song, was just me trying to figure things out,” says Gaga. “Once I grabbed the reigns of my artistry, I fell in love with that more than I did with the party life.” On first listen, “Paparazzi” might come off as a love song to cameras, and in all honestly, Gaga jokes “on one level it IS about wooing the paparazzi and wanting fame. But, it’s not to be taken completely seriously. It’s about everyone’s obsession with that idea. But, it’s also about wanting a guy to love you and the struggle of whether you can have success or love or both.”

Gaga shows her passion for love songs on such softer tracks as the Queen-influenced “Brown Eyes” and the sweet kiss-off break-up song “Nothing I can Say (eh eh).” “‘Brown Eyes’ is the most vulnerable song on the album,” she explains. “‘Eh Eh’ is my simple pop song about finding someone new and breaking up with the old boyfriend.”

For the new tour for this album, fans will be treated to a more polished version of what they saw (and loved) at her critically acclaimed Lollapalooza show in August 2007 and Winter Music Conference performance in March 2008. “This new show is the couture version of my handmade downtown performance of the past few years. It’s more fine-tuned, but some of my favorite elements to my past shows – the disco balls, hot pants, sequin, and stilettos – will still be there. Just more fierce and more of a conceptual show with a vision for pop performance art.”

It’s been a while since a new pop artist has made her way in the music industry the old-fashioned/grass roots way by paying her dues with seedy club gigs and self-promotion. This is one rising pop star who hasn’t been plucked from a model casting call, born into a famous family, won a reality TV singing contest, or emerged from a teen cable TV sitcom. “I did this the way you are supposed to. I played every club in New York City and I bombed in every club and then killed it in every club and I found myself as an artist. I learned how to survive as an artist, get real, and how to fail and then figure out who I was as singer and performer. And, I worked hard.”

Gaga adds with a wink in her eye, “And, now, I’m just trying to change the world one sequin at a time.”


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"Just dance, gonna be OK, just dance." - Lady Gaga, inspired by Rainer Maria Rilke

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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2009, 07:33:21 AM »

re: Sasha's email to Amanda:

Brav-fucking-o.

ditto!
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Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2012, 03:31:41 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ToQnu34QygU#!" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ToQnu34QygU#!</a>


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