THESHADOWBOX.NET

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Amanda is making Art with your support on Patreon. Join become a patron and help AFP make ALL THE THINGS.

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  All   Go Down

Author Topic: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.  (Read 14187 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

peppamintdynamo

  • hatmister
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 342
  • suddenly I'm miss beehive 1963
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2009, 03:29:42 AM »

It bugs me when people get down on Lady Gaga for being a pop artist. She is a very talented musician, as one can see from her early stuff and acoustic covers of her songs. She has an amazing voice and a wonderful handle on the piano. And she decided she wanted to make pop music. Good for her. I think real art is what the artist makes of it. True, she has become very mainstream, but it's all her own creation. Rather than saying she's sold out, I think that she's actually working the system in a way. The fact that she clearly could, and has in the past, make music that isn't "pop music," suggests that she knows this, and is either writing something she loves the sound of and is great dance music, or is writing this music knowing that she can make a shitload of money off of it. Either way, I can respect that. I think that people get way to wrapped up in the idea of mainstream and popular music. Just because a lot of people think its fantastic, doesn't mean that you need to think its shit. If you do, then you should have other reasons for doing so, that aren't related to how popular this artist is. That makes you just as bad as the people who like her just because she is popular.

She's an artist, she's making money. She's not killing puppies or anything. I think people should just give her a break.

Why does her music exist except to make her into a celebrity? Why does anyone like it except for it's unsubtle gratuitous sex appeal?

If you argue that it's just entertainment for entertainments sake then I have to be honest, you and I have very different definitions of entertainment.

I'm a theatre major, I don't really believe in entertainment for entertainments sake.

You'll have to excuse me, I'm about to fall asleep. Anyway, I like her because honestly, I think she is sending a message. Paparazzi for example, is clearly a commentary on how fame-obsessed our society is. Im not saying that there isn't self-reflexion there as well, but I wouldnt say it's only got unsubtle gratuitous sex appeal. This is pretty clear from the performance piece she put together for the VMAs.

I'm not going to say that every one of her songs has a message. Maybe they do, but I don't hear them. Some of them are just examples of good dance music. But still, I think especially when you watch the videos that go with her songs, you can see she's definitely trying to convey a message. I think a big problem people come up against is they only listen to her, and they don't see the videos. She's a performer. Her videos clearly reflect this. Bad Romance is a good example of a kick ass music video.

Now, I shall go to sleep. Hopefully this wasn't too incoherent.


Logged

Ryan James

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 457
    • FaceBook
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2009, 04:52:38 AM »

I actually don't hear Lady GaGa get talked about all the much. The only time I see her mentioned is on here, or on some trashy gossip website. But when I do here anything about her, it's not about her music at all, it's debating whether or not she has a penis, or her complete lack of clothing, etc.
If you go by the logic of "how talented you are = the amount of people that talk about you", Paris Hilton is one of the most talented people in the world.

I think Lady GaGa is a smart woman. Her music is no different to any other pop star going around, but she's getting her name out there. She is the new Marilyn Manson, and fucking kudos to both of them for being able to pull it off

I'd agree with you, and in the same way I think Manson is an artist, simply because Brian Warner is NOT Marilyn Manson, and Stefani Germanotta is NOT Lady Gaga. They've created characters, just like actors do - just like Amanda did with The 8 Foot Bride. Now I'm not saying we should compare her to Amanda, and obviously she's not Daniel Day Lewis - there isn't a comparison to be made there. I'm simply saying, that she's done something that most people would consider to be an artistic venture . . . if it were outside the realm of pop, but because she's decided to make it something mainstream everyone has decided that now that negates her worth, and personally I think that's a load of shit. She's obviously a creative person, why tool on that?

OKAY - seriously - I need to shut the fuck up about Lady Gaga now.
Logged

MeAndMyCharms

  • Apologizing in advance
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 265
  • you don't Nomi
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2009, 06:00:45 AM »

I'm simply saying, that she's done something that most people would consider to be an artistic venture . . . if it were outside the realm of pop, but because she's decided to make it something mainstream everyone has decided that now that negates her worth, and personally I think that's a load of shit. She's obviously a creative person, why tool on that?
There definitely are a lot of people out there who are complete snobs and think anything mainstream is so below them, or will accuse anybody who starts making money when once they were a struggling artist as a total sellout. I find those kinds of attitudes to be extremely irritating. That whole "holier than thou" thing is a real turn off.

But, I guess what I'm really trying to work out is, what makes Lady GaGa so worthy of all this attention. Why so many Lady GaGa topics? Why would Amanda write a song about her? But, most of all, what is it that she's done that's so different (music wise) to other pop stars like Christina Aguilera, or Pink, or The Veronica's that gives her so much more respect?
Why doesn't Bette Midler get a ukulele song, damn it!







It's the penis thing, isn't it?
Logged
riding the cotton camel

MeAndMyCharms

  • Apologizing in advance
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 265
  • you don't Nomi
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2009, 06:44:23 AM »

PS. In regard to the great art debate, and just pushing Lady GaGa to the side for a minute, I wanted to throw my two cents in


I don't think anybody has the authority to decide what is art and what isn't. Art is like beauty. Everybody has a different opinion on what makes something perfect or beautiful.
Some people think the blonde, big titted bimbo look is beautiful, but I think it's bland and boring.
I happen to think Amanda is beautiful, others think she's a frightening, hairy bull dyke.


Who's right?
Logged
riding the cotton camel

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2009, 07:27:31 AM »

I'm simply saying, that she's done something that most people would consider to be an artistic venture . . . if it were outside the realm of pop, but because she's decided to make it something mainstream everyone has decided that now that negates her worth, and personally I think that's a load of shit. She's obviously a creative person, why tool on that?
There definitely are a lot of people out there who are complete snobs and think anything mainstream is so below them, or will accuse anybody who starts making money when once they were a struggling artist as a total sellout. I find those kinds of attitudes to be extremely irritating. That whole "holier than thou" thing is a real turn off.

But, I guess what I'm really trying to work out is, what makes Lady GaGa so worthy of all this attention. Why so many Lady GaGa topics? Why would Amanda write a song about her? But, most of all, what is it that she's done that's so different (music wise) to other pop stars like Christina Aguilera, or Pink, or The Veronica's that gives her so much more respect?
Why doesn't Bette Midler get a ukulele song, damn it!







It's the penis thing, isn't it?

Bwuahahahahaha! I think it is the penis thing.

I think we should lobby Amanda for a Bette Midler cover! The Rose FTW!
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2009, 07:35:07 AM »

PS. In regard to the great art debate, and just pushing Lady GaGa to the side for a minute, I wanted to throw my two cents in


I don't think anybody has the authority to decide what is art and what isn't. Art is like beauty. Everybody has a different opinion on what makes something perfect or beautiful.
Some people think the blonde, big titted bimbo look is beautiful, but I think it's bland and boring.
I happen to think Amanda is beautiful, others think she's a frightening, hairy bull dyke.


Who's right?

I also have to say I agree with this 100%. No one has a right to say what's art and what isn't, what's beautiful and what's ugly. I think the majority of my friends wouldn't give Amanda Palmer the time of day but they probably all have Lady GaGa on their iPods. Doesn't mean Amanda Palmer isn't awesome, they just don't actually search for music, they are happy being spoon fed. Next week GaGa may be out and someone new with brilliant marketing/packaging campaign will be on everyone's lips.

The fact I don't like Lady GaGa doesn't mean she isn't awesome (to other people) and can't be considered an artist/musician/songwriter.

I think the Amanda Palmer's of the world are far more sustainable in their careers than the pop stars. Sure she makes a fraction of the amount of money and fame that the pop stars have, but her fans are likely to stick around a great deal longer. This may not apply for GaGa, maybe she does have a sustainable career ahead of her purely for the fact she is considered a performance artist along with a singer songwriter, but I'd put my money on 100 Amanda Palmer's before any Lady GaGa's. .... Still doesn't mean what the GaGa's create isn't art...
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3454
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2009, 09:49:27 AM »

I'm pretty sure if Mandy Moore had the Dolls listed as one of her influences on her Myspace page, there would be another 29 page thread discussing weather Amanda should throw in a cover of "Candy" at her NYE show.

Ke$ha lists the Dolls, AND Regina, AND Neutral Milk Hotel among others as her influences.
Logged
Quote
I do not want to live to archive my own life.
I see it everywhere around me, especially with the popularity of web diaries, forums, and cell phones that take pictures.
I do not want to fall into the subtle trap of truly believing I Blog Therefore I Am.
amanda, 2005-04-15

Musings

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3011
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2009, 12:10:35 PM »

Art is in the space somewhere between the intent of the creator and the intent of the observer, in my eyes.  This allows for a lot of ambiguities to exist -- for me to look at Lady Gaga's videos and absorb it as art at times, by appreciating the lighting, costuming, movement; for someone else to look at Lady Gaga, only hear dumb lyrics and flash and see it as artificial and preposterous; for me to go back to that same video and see it as silly, fun, something to get drunk to.

For those of you who are concerned that Lady Gaga primarily uses her talents to generate excesses of income (a claim I disagree with), do you consider something like this (or if you don't like this, something better executed) art?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OLSsswr6z9Y" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/OLSsswr6z9Y</a>

Can advertisements never be considered art?

To the question, why does her music exist except to make her a celebrity, WE ONLY KNOW ABOUT HER BECAUSE SHE IS A CELEBRITY (unless you went to NYU, were examining NYU pop-dance clubs).  Perhaps, before she broke through, she was looking for the means to make the very same grand statements of fashion and song that she does now.  And all of her music does have subtle messages, you're just not looking hard enough -- she's claimed Pokerface is about her bisexuality, Speechless is about asking her father to get surgery... etc, etc.  She's abstract in her lyrics.

To, an artist can only be creative when faced with hardship?  First of all, that's assuming that just because Lady Gaga isn't in current financial hardship, she's just floating by without angst... which no one knows.  There are a lot of assumptions made about her intentions and feelings that goes beyond what she says in interviews.  Why?  Why do people not trust her, but do trust a smaller artist?  Just because she's big?  What do we define hardship as? 

If the lyrics are soooo hard to swallow, consider: "I am a plagiarist/Apologist/A walrus, gecko, lizard- oh oh!"  (if that is in fact what that says)
or It runs in the family I come by it honestly do what you want 'cause who knows it might fill me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Fill me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up/Me up".  There are a lot of lyrics of Amanda's that upon a first listen, and a second listen, and a third, cause a lot of head scratching -- and we take the time to figure out the references because we're big fans.  Just because Gaga's lyrics don't make sense to us, doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't some reference she's throwing in there that we're not getting.

Also:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mVWesp6De_E" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mVWesp6De_E</a>
Logged
www.upstreamofconsciousness.blogspot.com

"Just dance, gonna be OK, just dance." - Lady Gaga, inspired by Rainer Maria Rilke

JohnnyDBBUK

  • Proud custodian of the Neville sisters souls
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4358
  • Where in time is Brian Viglione?
    • ~Gaslight Cabaret Club~
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2009, 12:29:34 PM »

Methinks it boild down to the Arts and Crafts debate:
Art exists primarily to speak to its receiver through various media forming a personal connection.
Crafts exist primarily to be sold, be it a cd, a ring, a book, a woven rug or handmade paper.

Though music can connect to people in the same way that Art does the majority of musicians are out their to sell their music/tour etc first and foremost.
It's easy to spot the ones who want the $£ in the Music Industry and who just want to be able to play their songs and live as comfortable as say.. rent/food/shelter

Musings

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3011
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2009, 12:39:36 PM »

Or.... musicians who want their music to reach as many ears as possible, that's also a possibility.  Wanting exposure and wanting to be recognized.  Wanting fame isn't necessarily synonymous with wanting money.  People search for power, recognition, self-worth, and happiness (AND creating happiness in the world and for others) in many ways.

Like I've said before, an artist who is an attention seeker is not a bad thing.

The only way to pinpoint who wants money and who just wants to be able to play their songs and be "comfortable" is the difference between who has broken through and who hasn't... Regina Spektor, in some ways has reached, "pop" status and she can sell out with the best of them, but many consider her art worthwhile.  The Beatles.  Frank Sinatra.   Just because they were famous and made tons of money and had tons of fame doesn't negate the lasting quality of their music and the way they continue to inspire.  And I think it's the mainstream consumer's fault, not necessarily the artist's that someone of that quality hasn't exploded all over MTV yet.

And maybe the indie consumer who says that a good artist is the one who doesn't market themselves and doesn't try to make themselves into a superstar, but rather, just "play their songs".
Logged
www.upstreamofconsciousness.blogspot.com

"Just dance, gonna be OK, just dance." - Lady Gaga, inspired by Rainer Maria Rilke

Chloe

  • Cosmic Dancer.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1129
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2009, 12:44:11 PM »

Logged
Just because your mom slept with her doesn't make her a lesbian.

peppamintdynamo

  • hatmister
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 342
  • suddenly I'm miss beehive 1963
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2009, 12:55:57 PM »

Methinks it boild down to the Arts and Crafts debate:
Art exists primarily to speak to its receiver through various media forming a personal connection.
Crafts exist primarily to be sold, be it a cd, a ring, a book, a woven rug or handmade paper.

Though music can connect to people in the same way that Art does the majority of musicians are out their to sell their music/tour etc first and foremost.
It's easy to spot the ones who want the $£ in the Music Industry and who just want to be able to play their songs and live as comfortable as say.. rent/food/shelter

What are your thoughts on Andy Warhol?
Logged

JohnnyDBBUK

  • Proud custodian of the Neville sisters souls
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4358
  • Where in time is Brian Viglione?
    • ~Gaslight Cabaret Club~
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2009, 01:11:17 PM »

Methinks it boild down to the Arts and Crafts debate:
Art exists primarily to speak to its receiver through various media forming a personal connection.
Crafts exist primarily to be sold, be it a cd, a ring, a book, a woven rug or handmade paper.

Though music can connect to people in the same way that Art does the majority of musicians are out their to sell their music/tour etc first and foremost.
It's easy to spot the ones who want the $£ in the Music Industry and who just want to be able to play their songs and live as comfortable as say.. rent/food/shelter

What are your thoughts on Andy Warhol?

It's a great David Bowie song

Rob

  • Now I must go, Sean Hannity is on.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2154
  • Harmless
    • My Yahoo!
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2009, 01:18:34 PM »

Yes it is!
Logged
Everybody dies
Frustrated and sad
And that is beautiful

MeAndMyCharms

  • Apologizing in advance
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 265
  • you don't Nomi
Re: gaga, palmer, madonna - a uke vlog.
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2009, 03:29:06 PM »

Ke$ha lists the Dolls, AND Regina, AND Neutral Milk Hotel among others as her influences.

I've got no idea who that is. I'm guessing she's not in the same league of fame as Lady GaGa, or Britney Spears, or Many Moore etc. Having said that though, if somebody started a thread about how much she loves the Dolls, it's very likely people would start forming an opinion on her and listening to her music more.

I'm not quite sure the relevance of pointing out Regina and Neutral Milk Hotel as her influences though. I am aware that Amanda loves them both, but....what?


My whole point is, people are going to feel more inclined to like a person once they find they share a love of something.

"Oh my god, 'insert name here' loves the Dresden Dolls! Me too! Maybe she's not as horrible as I originally thought..."

It's the same as how people who love Amanda are going to start listening to the same music as her. It makes them feel connected to her in some way. It's gives them something to have in common with an artist that they love.
It happens
Logged
riding the cotton camel
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  All   Go Up