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[GirlInsomniac]

maybe if they want to have kids w eachother and dont want an unstable home so commit to eachother for ever..
..we see how well that works out..

or they want someone who will love them forever...security...

[dangerpants]

Taxes, to make my mom happy, and to prove to my fiancé that regardless of how his family was, we can have a stable happy and loving family.
Also because I want to make babies.

[J_Beck]

Health Insurance/benefits are important for us self employed folks.

[N.U.]

I wish I knew. Almost been married twice now. Never actually got there. and they always end up marrying the next person they date. I'm like the set-up man in baseball. No accolades, no awards, but the Closer can't close unless I've done my job.

[J_Beck]

I wish I knew. Almost been married twice now. Never actually got there. and they always end up marrying the next person they date. I'm like the set-up man in baseball. No accolades, no awards, but the Closer can't close unless I've done my job.

Good luck Chuck?

[Cheddars Cousin]

The wedding fluffer...

[N.U.]

LOL, something like that.

[caddy]

People get married when they give up.

[Indja]

I've been on the pop, so please excuse me if I start making NO sense but....

y'all are so fucking cynical! Is there srsly no positive reason to get married that we can see here? Is the fact that, in a religious ceremony, you're binding two souls together as one forever really meaningless? Can people really not see the power and the impact of saying, "This is someone I feel so strongly about that I am prepared to vow never to fall in love with another person again" ?  I can't believe that, even if it's only in jest, people on this board are so hardened to the idea of marriage as a really excellent, powerful way of expressing your love and commitment to another person. I can't get my head round it.

Marriage is not an outdated, archaic concept - it's not something to be mocked and ridiculed on principle. It's a way for people to express certain emotions and certain commitments that they can't find another outlet for, and there's NOTHING wrong with that. I find it quite heartbreaking to see people's answers to the question voiced in this thread, as it seems like no matter how much we preach tolerance and acceptance we simply can't find it in ourselves to accept that marriage remains a valuable institution and not something to be taken lightly. It's almost like we think "that's not cool" and thus "that's retarded", and I just don't think that's fair.

[caddy]

I dislike the religious connotations of marriage.  I also extremely dislike getting told that I need to marry my honey simply because I live with him.  I think most people dislike the idea of marriage, purely because others request it for them, rather than they request it for themselves.  Hell, we've already had one girl on here say that she feels like she HAS to marry someone of her same religion, due to the guilt it has imposed upon her.  You shouldn't need to feel that way, but a high volume of people still do.

Not to mention that sometimes you just do NOT want to marry into your partner's family.  I'm sorry, but regardless of how much I like them, doesn't mean I want in-laws that probably won't ever accept me.

Here's another issue besides religious affiliation.  Race.  Most people just don't want to get married, due to them marrying into a family that is never going to accept them, due to their race.  My honey's family is almost pure white Irish, and extremely proud of their lineage.  I am not white, nor Irish.  Marriages, especially where you have families of that nature, also encourage child rearing, and it's hard to want to rear your mixed child around a bunch of people who are going to hate them, purely due to their mixed blood.  Therefore, if you abstain from marriage, you're usually rid of the stigma of children that goes along with it.

Another good reason to abhor marriage.  Finances.  Getting married is expensive, and it's not even FOR you.  If a wedding ceremony was truly for those getting married, then their friends and family would all chip in and pay for it for them.  In richer families, yes, the parents pay for the wedding for them.  In middle class families, people save up, sometimes for years, before them have their "dream wedding" with that super expensive dress that THEY WILL NEVER, EVER WEAR AGAIN.  You pay all that money, you feed these jerks, and they give you a toaster as a wedding gift.  Lol wut?

Not to mention having to bind your names to legal documents.  Yes, there are people who are fighting like mad to achieve this status, and have their woes, and this is why I fully support gay marriage.  It's not fair that they can't experience the same hell that married couples seem to go through.

I know this last one seems harsh, but it's very, very true.  Especially if you never have any desire to have children.  No messy attachments.  Let's face it, not everybody is going to last as long as their grandparents.  50-year anniversaries are a thing of the past, when men and women were truly taught to stick together until the very, painful end.  Now you don't HAVE to stick to your mate.  You don't have to rely on them for bills and finances, or even your livelihood.  If you split after so many years, and the only thing you shared is a house and some bills, I think that makes things cleaner and easier.  I know several people right now struggling to get out of a marriage, but can't due to lack of negotiation and understanding.  It's already a hellish ride breaking up with somebody.  Now imagine having to get a lawyer, and split everything 50-50, and seeing them on weekends with the kids and their new beau, and all that nasty baggage.

It's no longer an appetizing fantasy for many people, which is why you're getting the cynicism.  Marriage has outgrown it's usefulness in their world, and for most middle class people marriage = settling down, building a family, and getting bad credit.  I don't think the large majority of s.boxers are ready to settle down and resign the rest of their lives to relying on stability over excitement and the fun/fear of the unknown.

But I am sorry you feel that way.  I've actually never seen one person that I've known throughout my entire life experience a happy marriage that lasted for a long time.  Hence my opinion.

[CottonCandy]

But I am sorry you feel that way.  I've actually never seen one person that I've known throughout my entire life experience a happy marriage that lasted for a long time.  Hence my opinion.

I wonder how directly that is related, liking the idea of marriage to how many people you know have stayed together?

I know lots of people who have stayed together for a long time with seemingly happy marriage. I say seemingly, as there's no signs of long-lasting trouble but obviously you can't tell unless you're in the marriage for sure. My mum and dad have been married for over 30 years, my grandad and grandma were married for 50 years before my grandma died, there's a few more family friends that have been married around the 30 year-mark. Of course, there's people close to me that have divorced... two uncles, one from mums side, one from dads side have divorced the mother of my cousins, my boyfriends parents have divorced, an so on. Still, I do think marriage is a lovely thing.

With that statement of yours, I wonder two things. What do you concider to be a "long time" in marriage? There are people who have been married 10, 20, 30 years, then found out that they had become more friends than lovers and split, doesn't mean that it wasn't a happy marriage. This is what happened to my boyfriends parents. They certainly don't regret their marriage, and are still in friendly terms.

I don't think that if marriage doesn't last a lifetime, the whole time renders as failed, misspent time, like I don't think any relationship that broke up wouldn't automatically mean that. That said, I wonder how many people divorce because it is easier than working through a crises. Before it wasn't socially acceptable to divorce, so you wouldn't unless it was a dire situation, so people would work things through more.

I think marriage can be a beautiful thing, it shows everyone the commitment you've made for each other, and for less exciting reasons, it does give you a security when the marriage ends, through divorce or the other person dying. Especally if you have bought a house together or have children together.

[The Angel Raliel]

i think that marriage really is a symbol of the expression of the love that two people share for each other and a public acknowledgement that they wish to spend the rest of their lives together as a united pair..... I do not think it needs to be of a particular religion or traditional background to do so.....I do think that people quite often get married for the wrong reasons (wanting the WEDDING, with white dress, church etc is a major one....as is simply feeling that it is what one does as an adult)

[Indja]

I totally agree with you, Caddy - there is a TON of bullshit and horrible-ness about marriage, and sometimes it can be the worst mistake you could possibly make and put you in a terrible situation where you're unhappy, uncomfortable and feel pressured into staying in that situation regardless of how you feel about it. I certainly didn't mean to make it sound like I was saying marriage is always right, always good and always what somebody should do because it's just not. I think that sort of attitude, the idea of marriage as "the norm" is what results in terrible times for people - they feel that marriage is the next logical step and feel like that's what they're supposed to do, and end up making a decision with little or no reference to their actual feelings.

What was annoying me about this thread was that we seem to have gone to the other extreme. It was starting to feel that we were kicking out against the idea of there being any "normal" relationship and the concept of a straight married couple as being that norm by rejecting the entire concept of marriage and tarring it all with the same brush. It was getting where it started to sound quite patronising to people who do want to get married, like they're not as enlightened as we are, and last night that just really struck a nerve with me.

With regards to a happy/long marriage, I'm not sure I equate long with happy in the same way, or that people see divorce as the easy way out. Yes, there is a VERY high divorce rate these days, and there must be some couples who are going through something that actually they could work through if they tried hard enough, but from what I've seen of divorce it is nothing you'd do if you didn't have to. My parents got divorced when I was 4 or 5, and even at that age I knew it was horrible and hard for them both. I've seen some letters written between the two of them during the process of divorce, and the bitterness and pain and resentment in them made me want to cry for them. My dad still can't forgive my mum for giving him shitty contact hours with my brother and me, my mum cannot forgive my dad for cheating on her, these wounds run deep. They're both remarried now - very happily, though only for 8 years with my dad and step-mum and 2 with my mum and step-dad - but the trauma of getting a divorce is still there and just screams to me that, if you don't consider marriage a light undertaking, you can't possibly consider divorce one.

With the money thing, Caddy, I am RIGHT with you. It's awful, this expectation that you throw piles and piles of money at a huge, garish ceremony and dress and pretty pretty lights. I've been to quite a few weddings, and my top two were my uncle's and my mother's. His was quietly expensive, a simple sort of ceremony and some veeeeery nice food and a live band in a posh hotel. Great if you can afford it, and very sort of effortless and sophisticated. Topping that by a country mile, however, was Mum's wedding. It was a Quaker service in our Meeting House, full of friends (and Friends xD). She wore a lovely purple dress which she still wears for special occasions, and my step-dad had his best suit on - freshly dry cleaned! The members of our Meeting all brought food and helped set things up, and Mum made her own cake (it was delicious). The ceremony was in silence, being a Quaker one, and afterwards we went to Bob's Unitarian chapel where some of his friends had put together a party in a sort of bring-a-bottle stylee only bigger. Mum's friends from India did a really fucking awesome dance with drums and stuff, and then someone put the stereo on xD It was fantastically cheap, and fantastically touching because everything that was lovely about it came about through sheer love and effort from other people - it wasn't just a matter of throwing money at it until it fits.

I have to stop typing so much. It's obscene.

[caddy]

But I am sorry you feel that way.  I've actually never seen one person that I've known throughout my entire life experience a happy marriage that lasted for a long time.  Hence my opinion.

I wonder how directly that is related, liking the idea of marriage to how many people you know have stayed together?

Err...I'd say completely related, since I said it was.  There's no mystery to solve there.  As for the rest, I've never seen two people divorce amicably.  I've seen people split from a relationship amicably after 3-8 years, yes, but never from a marriage that didn't work.  I also haven't seen a marriage go past ten years.  So I'd say my views are obviously directly linked.  I'm not saying happy marriages do not exist, nor did I state this anywhere.  I just don't find marriage all that necessary as an expression of love.  Love is love, regardless of how you express it.  I don't need a white dress and a piece of paper to tell me I'm definitely committed to this person.  That's like depending on religion as a verification of your morals.  I hope his doesn't sound like I'm being short with you.




Oh, Indja.  Now you know I gotta eat din dins before I reply to that beast.  xD

[CottonCandy]

But I am sorry you feel that way.  I've actually never seen one person that I've known throughout my entire life experience a happy marriage that lasted for a long time.  Hence my opinion.

I wonder how directly that is related, liking the idea of marriage to how many people you know have stayed together?

Err...I'd say completely related, since I said it was.  There's no mystery to solve there. 

I meant more generally, it's obvious that it affects your opinion personally... And is it on a more sliding scale. For example with my amount of "close" happy marriages and dirvorces, I want to get married, some day. My boyfriend, whose parents are divorced, is much less fussed about it but doesn't object to it either.