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[Agonistes]

When I hear that people are getting married I have all kinds of thoughts and feelings.

I get a sense that something novel is happening mixed with a surreal kind of bafflement. (If I’m told to my face I also get a sense of dread that I’m expected to say something). After the shock/surprise, I begin to hope that they don’t want to talk to me about the planning at any point in the next several months…

Next I start to wonder about what it all means and why I can’t even begin to imagine what it must take for people to want to get married. Eventually I rationalise it with: “ It’s a sign of their commitment to each other and it means something to them even if I don’t understand it.”
Then I tend to get broody about all the things that people believe are highly symbolic that to me just look like veneers for life signposts that people want to find in their later years (my Sartre Nausea moment perhaps).

After a while I get used to the idea but I will get a recurring sickness whenever I hear about the amount of money that has been spent. 

i am experiencing your post right now.

my stepdaughter just spent something like five grand of her father's money to get married in spring.  she and her fiancee can't afford to pay their rent nor keep the lights on without borrowing cash from her mom (or me), but she's having this enormous fairybook wedding, which her dad, who won't even peel a couple bucks off his wallet to fix her car, is WILLINGLY PAYING FOR.  i don't really understand the logic of this, nor why i have agreed to perform the ceremony, but i think the best part is going to be when her dad realizes his ex wife has been hooked up with women for the past sixteen years.  how they can live in the same town and him not realize this yet is beyond me (it's not like we are in the closet, everybody knows me) but, whatever.

i understand the concept of marriage just fine, but i do not understand the heterosexual methodology of becoming wed.   i mean, i said a vow in front of a few people and handed off a ring.  this is something different entirely; not to mention the daughter in question thinks we, at some point, will do this same wedding thing, since she feels we got 'cheated' out of one, somehow.

[slyvia k]

When I hear that people are getting married I have all kinds of thoughts and feelings.

I get a sense that something novel is happening mixed with a surreal kind of bafflement. (If I’m told to my face I also get a sense of dread that I’m expected to say something). After the shock/surprise, I begin to hope that they don’t want to talk to me about the planning at any point in the next several months…

Next I start to wonder about what it all means and why I can’t even begin to imagine what it must take for people to want to get married. Eventually I rationalise it with: “ It’s a sign of their commitment to each other and it means something to them even if I don’t understand it.”
Then I tend to get broody about all the things that people believe are highly symbolic that to me just look like veneers for life signposts that people want to find in their later years (my Sartre Nausea moment perhaps).

After a while I get used to the idea but I will get a recurring sickness whenever I hear about the amount of money that has been spent. 

i am experiencing your post right now.

my stepdaughter just spent something like five grand of her father's money to get married in spring.  she and her fiancee can't afford to pay their rent nor keep the lights on without borrowing cash from her mom (or me), but she's having this enormous fairybook wedding, which her dad, who won't even peel a couple bucks off his wallet to fix her car, is WILLINGLY PAYING FOR.  i don't really understand the logic of this, nor why i have agreed to perform the ceremony, but i think the best part is going to be when her dad realizes his ex wife has been hooked up with women for the past sixteen years.  how they can live in the same town and him not realize this yet is beyond me (it's not like we are in the closet, everybody knows me) but, whatever.

i understand the concept of marriage just fine, but i do not understand the heterosexual methodology of becoming wed.   i mean, i said a vow in front of a few people and handed off a ring.  this is something different entirely; not to mention the daughter in question thinks we, at some point, will do this same wedding thing, since she feels we got 'cheated' out of one, somehow.

you're going to perform the wedding? so you're a tattoo artist AND a minister? 

[Agonistes]

When I hear that people are getting married I have all kinds of thoughts and feelings.

I get a sense that something novel is happening mixed with a surreal kind of bafflement. (If I’m told to my face I also get a sense of dread that I’m expected to say something). After the shock/surprise, I begin to hope that they don’t want to talk to me about the planning at any point in the next several months…

Next I start to wonder about what it all means and why I can’t even begin to imagine what it must take for people to want to get married. Eventually I rationalise it with: “ It’s a sign of their commitment to each other and it means something to them even if I don’t understand it.”
Then I tend to get broody about all the things that people believe are highly symbolic that to me just look like veneers for life signposts that people want to find in their later years (my Sartre Nausea moment perhaps).

After a while I get used to the idea but I will get a recurring sickness whenever I hear about the amount of money that has been spent. 

i am experiencing your post right now.

my stepdaughter just spent something like five grand of her father's money to get married in spring.  she and her fiancee can't afford to pay their rent nor keep the lights on without borrowing cash from her mom (or me), but she's having this enormous fairybook wedding, which her dad, who won't even peel a couple bucks off his wallet to fix her car, is WILLINGLY PAYING FOR.  i don't really understand the logic of this, nor why i have agreed to perform the ceremony, but i think the best part is going to be when her dad realizes his ex wife has been hooked up with women for the past sixteen years.  how they can live in the same town and him not realize this yet is beyond me (it's not like we are in the closet, everybody knows me) but, whatever.

i understand the concept of marriage just fine, but i do not understand the heterosexual methodology of becoming wed.   i mean, i said a vow in front of a few people and handed off a ring.  this is something different entirely; not to mention the daughter in question thinks we, at some point, will do this same wedding thing, since she feels we got 'cheated' out of one, somehow.

you're going to perform the wedding? so you're a tattoo artist AND a minister? 

yep, a former apprentice of mine asked me about two months ago if i would do the sermon at his and his wife's ten-year anniversary re-commitment ceremony next year on halloween (they got married a year before i apprenticed him, omg.  i remember because he borrowed my armor to wear with his kilt).  so i said, okay sure (although i hate speaking in public), and my stepdaughter, who was sitting there, asked immediately if i could 'marry' herself with her fiancee, i think in march of this year they have it scheduled.  so, laptop ever near, i jumped online and got ordained as a universal life church minister, even blowing twenty bucks for the purty certificate which is hanging next to my state and county tattoo license at the shop.  a couple of weeks ago i checked with the county clerk's office, where i have to pay a fee to become legally licensed, and then yep, i'm gonna marry them.  which reminds me i need to buy a black suit, the only one i have is for going out and not for church. 

funny thing; my stepdaughter's father has no idea that i exist at all, much less am his ex wife's girlfriend.   unless she finds a way to tell him, he will probably meet me at the rehearsal dinner.

mom would have been proud.  she actually WAS a priest (episcopal).  although she actually did seminary.  i just did college and some master's courses, but not in theology.  incidentally, if anyone knows of a nicely written, less than ten minute, non denominational ritual, please feel free to send it my way.

[slyvia k]

When I hear that people are getting married I have all kinds of thoughts and feelings.

I get a sense that something novel is happening mixed with a surreal kind of bafflement. (If I’m told to my face I also get a sense of dread that I’m expected to say something). After the shock/surprise, I begin to hope that they don’t want to talk to me about the planning at any point in the next several months…

Next I start to wonder about what it all means and why I can’t even begin to imagine what it must take for people to want to get married. Eventually I rationalise it with: “ It’s a sign of their commitment to each other and it means something to them even if I don’t understand it.”
Then I tend to get broody about all the things that people believe are highly symbolic that to me just look like veneers for life signposts that people want to find in their later years (my Sartre Nausea moment perhaps).

After a while I get used to the idea but I will get a recurring sickness whenever I hear about the amount of money that has been spent. 

i am experiencing your post right now.

my stepdaughter just spent something like five grand of her father's money to get married in spring.  she and her fiancee can't afford to pay their rent nor keep the lights on without borrowing cash from her mom (or me), but she's having this enormous fairybook wedding, which her dad, who won't even peel a couple bucks off his wallet to fix her car, is WILLINGLY PAYING FOR.  i don't really understand the logic of this, nor why i have agreed to perform the ceremony, but i think the best part is going to be when her dad realizes his ex wife has been hooked up with women for the past sixteen years.  how they can live in the same town and him not realize this yet is beyond me (it's not like we are in the closet, everybody knows me) but, whatever.

i understand the concept of marriage just fine, but i do not understand the heterosexual methodology of becoming wed.   i mean, i said a vow in front of a few people and handed off a ring.  this is something different entirely; not to mention the daughter in question thinks we, at some point, will do this same wedding thing, since she feels we got 'cheated' out of one, somehow.

you're going to perform the wedding? so you're a tattoo artist AND a minister? 

yep, a former apprentice of mine asked me about two months ago if i would do the sermon at his and his wife's ten-year anniversary re-commitment ceremony next year on halloween (they got married a year before i apprenticed him, omg.  i remember because he borrowed my armor to wear with his kilt).  so i said, okay sure (although i hate speaking in public), and my stepdaughter, who was sitting there, asked immediately if i could 'marry' herself with her fiancee, i think in march of this year they have it scheduled.  so, laptop ever near, i jumped online and got ordained as a universal life church minister, even blowing twenty bucks for the purty certificate which is hanging next to my state and county tattoo license at the shop.  a couple of weeks ago i checked with the county clerk's office, where i have to pay a fee to become legally licensed, and then yep, i'm gonna marry them.  which reminds me i need to buy a black suit, the only one i have is for going out and not for church. 

funny thing; my stepdaughter's father has no idea that i exist at all, much less am his ex wife's girlfriend.   unless she finds a way to tell him, he will probably meet me at the rehearsal dinner.

mom would have been proud.  she actually WAS a priest (episcopal).  although she actually did seminary.  i just did college and some master's courses, but not in theology.  incidentally, if anyone knows of a nicely written, less than ten minute, non denominational ritual, please feel free to send it my way.

this is awesome beyond words!
oh, it will be a very entertaining rehearsal dinner indeed 
and yay, i love the episcopalian church. they seem to be so progressive.

[Agonistes]

this is awesome beyond words!
oh, it will be a very entertaining rehearsal dinner indeed 
and yay, i love the episcopalian church. they seem to be so progressive.

i agree that the episcopal church has always been pretty progressive.  i was raised in it, baptized and confirmed and all that, but i call myself an agnostic now, although at one time (a long, long time ago in another life before i became this tattooed thing i am today) i fully planned to enter seminary.  my mom was actually way, WAY conservative in her own mind and managed to turn a blind eye to a lot of the more progressive aspects of modern theology, but she was very sincere about her faith, and in fact made an exemplary grief counselor.

i've also reminded the bride-to-be to please remember to not call me 'daddy' (her nickname for me; she says it's because i'm 'the girl') around her father.  there is a weird sort of symbolic irony with him walking her down the aisle and handing her off to her mom's girlfriend; i find i can't make stuff like this up.

i'm a little surprised by it all, myself.

[imaginary friend]

when I hear that people I know are getting married, my first thought is either:

"that's wonderful!"

or

"better them than me!"

I do love a good party, though, no matter the occasion. 

#@!

[Rob]

I've been married for almost 19 years now (Feb 16th). 

We were together for three years before that.  We had been through many ups and downs, seen eachother at our best and worst in that time.

We got married when we realised that we were going to be together forever and that we'd like to share that sentiment with all the other people who were importat to us. 

Plus, it was an excellent reason to throw a kick ass party!

[Tiervexx]

I simply see marriage for what it originally was meant to be, a commitment ceremony, that may not be for everyone, but makes a lot of people really happy...

That is how I see marriage but I don't know if that's how it was "originally" meant to be.  In many cultures the male basically declared ownership of the female and it was really just about the man's happiness and family that the woman had no real choice in.

This is of course horrifying from a feminist point of view but I don't think we need to let this ancient practice taint modern marriages in the developed world (as opposed to some cultures that still practice it).

I was thinking a lot more ancient than that, and I could totally be making stuff up to feel better. Somewhere, at some point, the idea of marriage had to have been about commitment to a person you love. Just not everywhere.

Anyway, you all know what I was talking about.

I do think you are making stuff up to be honest 

The most ancient "marriages" relevant to our species was probably similar to the way modern packs of gorillas will have an alpha male that owns the females.

This is still speculation of course but I think it's a very good guess.  When you go forward in history many cultures made the male ownership of the females more official while a few had more woman's rights.

[Rob]

And, yes...T is right.  The idea of marriage being an expression of romantic love is a relatively new one as human history goes. 
It was originally much more political and property based as an institution..

[Mr. Anagrammatism]

Ummm ... society?


"Those who talk most about the blessings of marriage and the constancy of its vows are the very people who declare that if the chain were broken and the prisoners were left free to choose, the whole social fabric would fly asunder. You can't have the argument both ways. If the prisoner is happy, why lock him in? If he is not, why pretend that he is?"
-George Bernard Shaw

(and yes, Shaw was married)

"By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you
get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher."

~ Socrates

[stallionbreaker]

I don't get it. Never have. I wonder why I always feel disappointed in people when they tell me they're getting married instead of being happy for them? (I do feel like a bit of a bitch for not feeling happy for them.) I have never once experienced that swell of yay other people seem to get when a couple announces their engagement. I often can't bring myself to congratulate them.. because it feels false. The overwhelming feeling I experience is usually one of either "ugh" or "oh dear god, why?"

PLEASE discuss, I'd really like to know WHY. Anyone else out there just not "get" marriage?

I wonder if my feelings about it are because I'm a child of divorce? Or because I don't get along with my dad too well? Or because of my early feminist influences? Or because I'm single and under 30? Or because all my favourite people when I was growing up were either single or gay (or both)?

I don't "get" marriage. My response is usually along the lines of a superficial "oh, good for them". Somehow when Amanda and Neil announced their engagement, I started to take a good long look at why I felt sad about it. It didn't seem to be because I don't want them to be together. It didn't seem to be because I would now be "missing out" on a connection with either of them (laughable though that may be). Then I hit on the hurt of my own parents' divorce, and I bawled. I was 14. They'd been married 17 years. It made sense for them to split because they were unhappy, but lord it hurt me. I never accepted it, and just transferred this onto the idea of marriage.

I don't trust marriage. I don't trust that I can know how "forever" will go. I see people who are obviously right together sometimes, and I think marriage is for them. And I ponder whether there will come a time when I feel like it's the obviously right thing for me.

[virtual~mary]

the secret to a successful marriage (relationship) is the grasp of this simple (ahahahaha) truth: there is more than one way to load a dishwasher.

[CeeGBee]

the secret to a successful marriage (relationship) is the grasp of this simple (ahahahaha) truth: there is more than one way to load a dishwasher.

Well sure, but what kind of idiot puts the TP roll on the wrong way?   

[Rob]

the secret to a successful marriage (relationship) is the grasp of this simple (ahahahaha) truth: there is more than one way to load a dishwasher.

Yeah...my way and the wrong way!

[virtual~mary]

that amazing grasp of subtext is part of your charm, rob.