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Author Topic: Pop Music.  (Read 14059 times)

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Darkness

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Pop Music.
« on: January 25, 2010, 09:37:50 PM »

Has anybody else been put off pop music lately?

I personally, dislike the unoriginality of it all. This video perfectly sums up my views:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fQ1P4Mwlc

Seven minutes of some of the most popular pop songs using exactly the same four chords. I mean, I'm from a Classical training so I understand how complex music has been throughout the centuries. To me it's becoming too generic and simple, which is why I've personally drifted away from this music.

The only exception to this is my alternative tastes, like Regina and Amanda and the Dresden Dolls. Listen to any of Amanda's music, and she'll use more than four chords within the first few bars.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2010, 09:42:23 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/qHBVnMf2t7w" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/qHBVnMf2t7w</a>
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2010, 10:00:31 PM »

Seven minutes of some of the most popular pop songs using exactly the same four chords.

Oasis and Backstabber have the same chord progression (in the same key!), Slide, 1.1.94, Predictable Addiction, Blues Boy, and Runs in the Family have the same chord progression, Boston and Boyfriend in a Coma have a same chord progression, Ampersand and Delilah have the same chord progression, same key, Guitar Hero and Sex Changes are also extremely similar.

I know that this is not quite what you are saying but really, it's nothing that Amanda and Regina aren't totally innocent of. ESPECIALLY Regina with only using a few chords over and over in a song.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2010, 11:12:38 PM »

I'm not surprised, but I'm not horrified either. There is a reason that they use these chords, and it's based on complimentary melodies and chords. That particular chord progression is especially pleasing to most ears, and it's easy to set lyrics to it. You'll find a whole plethora of very similar chord progressions that are "overused." What about the basic blues chord progression? It's a standard, and it's lovely.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2010, 11:14:32 PM »

What about the basic blues chord progression? It's a standard, and it's lovely.

You couldn't have rock and roll without it.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 01:31:40 AM »

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 01:36:02 AM »

My thoughts exactly.....
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 02:53:03 AM »

There is a reason that they use these chords, and it's based on complimentary melodies and chords.

Can we expect a danish and coffee with that?
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 03:38:16 AM »

I could say a bit about this but for now here’s a link.

Hit Song Science™
http://uplaya.com/about_hss/hsstech


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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2010, 04:38:54 AM »

Seven minutes of some of the most popular pop songs using exactly the same four chords.

Not that I don't agree with you, but there are only 12 notes. All music is pretty repetitive when you get right down to it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JdxkVQy7QLM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/JdxkVQy7QLM</a>
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2010, 04:50:51 AM »


Not that I don't agree with you, but there are only 12 notes. All music is pretty repetitive when you get right down to it.


The sophisication of Romantic Period Music in particular outweighs significantly the pop music genre today. Ever since the invention of Rock and Roll music it seems, music has become progressively more simple. (Not blaming that genre in the slightest)

And to answer a comment a few above, I am aware Regina and Amanda are not entirely innocent of this. Yet they are much less guilty than some of their more mainstream counterparts.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2010, 10:58:55 AM »

I don't think the 4 chord syndrome really has anything to do with the decline of pop music. I think the problem really lies with the over-production, lack of soul and the attention being focused on the look of people instead of the sound of the music they make.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2010, 11:44:51 AM »

Any good song only needs 3 chords.

Just ask Angus Young and Johnny Ramone.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9bwEy8BQBfk" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/9bwEy8BQBfk</a>
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2010, 12:02:12 PM »

I could say a bit about this but for now here’s a link.

Hit Song Science™
http://uplaya.com/about_hss/hsstech
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2010, 02:09:45 PM »

I don't think the 4 chord syndrome really has anything to do with the decline of pop music. I think the problem really lies with the over-production, lack of soul and the attention being focused on the look of people instead of the sound of the music they make.

I foung THIS ARTICLE most informative.... 
(Listen to the audio, it's only about 8 minutes.)
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2010, 04:20:32 PM »

Any good song only needs 3 chords.

And that's my entire argument, right there. The idea of a 'good song' has now become so simplified the real possibilities of music have become somewhat lost.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2010, 10:30:40 AM »

I don't think the 4 chord syndrome really has anything to do with the decline of pop music. I think the problem really lies with the over-production, lack of soul and the attention being focused on the look of people instead of the sound of the music they make.

I foung THIS ARTICLE most informative.... 
(Listen to the audio, it's only about 8 minutes.)

Oh yes, i know all about this one. I have gotten on many a soapbox, and cited this very link. What I am saying here is not even taking that travesty into account. Hell, a bad mastering job is not going to make a crappy pop song any worse!
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2010, 11:48:08 AM »

I don't bother with pop, personally - I mean as a concept. As a genre, obviously you can't get away from it, but it seems we're talking more about the concept of pop music rather than just-

My dad's laptop just crashed out Biffy Clyro at full volume - I fucking love my dad. I just needed to share that in the instance that it happened. Now back to pop xD

- a type of music. I mean, people like the Beatles and the Beach Boys and stuff are superpop genre-wise, but they're obviously not what we're talking about here. When it comes to that concept, the problem is that music has become an industry and a business rather than an art; it's like the lovely Old Man Muffin Jar said, the focus has shifted.

Though, being a music tech student, I'd say there's nothing wrong with heaps and heaps of production xD
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2010, 12:56:11 PM »

Any good song only needs 3 chords.

And that's my entire argument, right there. The idea of a 'good song' has now become so simplified the real possibilities of music have become somewhat lost.

Now? go listen to some old blues or folk recordings from the 1920s.

#@!

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2010, 10:37:44 AM »

Any good song only needs 3 chords.

And that's my entire argument, right there. The idea of a 'good song' has now become so simplified the real possibilities of music have become somewhat lost.

Now? go listen to some old blues or folk recordings from the 1920s.

#@!
I don't care if it is prog rock with tons of time and key changes, or a 2 chord wonder. The only thing that matters is that the people delivering the music it do it with feeling and style.

I have heard people say prog is soulless, and it sure CAN be. But listen to Magma and Banco and there is plenty of soul in that complex music.

I have heard some classical musicians and prog fans declare Punk and Rap music to be anti-music. I call bullshit on that too. They are missing the point.

Pop sure can be pointless and soulless most of the time, but then every once in a while folks like Peter Gabriel come along and make artful pop music.

Formula, posing and faking is the anti-rock to me. Long live rock.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2010, 05:34:41 PM »

Yes, no doubt. But the greater the variety within a song, the more opportunity the artist gives themselves to communicate feeling. Repetition is a natural enemy to music in some cases.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2010, 05:54:26 PM »

Any good song only needs 3 chords.

And that's my entire argument, right there. The idea of a 'good song' has now become so simplified the real possibilities of music have become somewhat lost.

Now? go listen to some old blues or folk recordings from the 1920s.

#@!
I don't care if it is prog rock with tons of time and key changes, or a 2 chord wonder. The only thing that matters is that the people delivering the music it do it with feeling and style.

I have heard people say prog is soulless, and it sure CAN be. But listen to Magma and Banco and there is plenty of soul in that complex music.

I have heard some classical musicians and prog fans declare Punk and Rap music to be anti-music. I call bullshit on that too. They are missing the point.

Pop sure can be pointless and soulless most of the time, but then every once in a while folks like Lady GaGa come along and make artful pop music.

Formula, posing and faking is the anti-rock to me. Long live GaGa.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2010, 06:04:05 PM »

for the first time..ever really, I've started to like pop music.
mostly gaga.
well, exclusively gaga.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2010, 06:12:12 PM »

I like select songs and sometimes pop bands from other countries
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2010, 06:15:41 AM »

for the first time..ever really, I've started to like pop music.
mostly gaga.
well, exclusively gaga.

Once you like gaga, it's only a small step to Ke$ha.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2010, 06:26:03 AM »

for the first time..ever really, I've started to like pop music.
mostly gaga.
well, exclusively gaga.

Once you like gaga, it's only a small step to Ke$ha.

And then the damage is truly irreversible.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2010, 06:07:30 PM »

for the first time..ever really, I've started to like pop music.
mostly gaga.
well, exclusively gaga.

Once you like gaga, it's only a small step to Ke$ha.

Lady Gaga is a gateway drug.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2010, 06:29:25 PM »

for the first time..ever really, I've started to like pop music.
mostly gaga.
well, exclusively gaga.

Once you like gaga, it's only a small step to Ke$ha.

Lady Gaga is a gateway drug.


Truer words have never been spoken.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2010, 06:47:31 AM »

Marina & the Diamonds (it's just her) is definitely a pop musician but she's very precise about her music and how she works with producers. I usually prefer lyrics to music because I don't have a tuned ear, and Marina's lyrics range from critiques of the music industry, and social commentaries to more personal songs. For me, she's really given pop a lot more credibility in that it can mean something.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2010, 07:38:39 AM »

Marina & the Diamonds (it's just her) is definitely a pop musician but she's very precise about her music and how she works with producers. I usually prefer lyrics to music because I don't have a tuned ear, and Marina's lyrics range from critiques of the music industry, and social commentaries to more personal songs. For me, she's really given pop a lot more credibility in that it can mean something.

I admire people like this, that try and bring credibility and originality to the industry. It makes it even sadder when the majority of the pop industry disregard people like this and the household names are usually those four-chord artists.

Sometimes I wish I could jam with Beethoven.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2010, 07:47:42 AM »

Marina & the Diamonds (it's just her) is definitely a pop musician but she's very precise about her music and how she works with producers. I usually prefer lyrics to music because I don't have a tuned ear, and Marina's lyrics range from critiques of the music industry, and social commentaries to more personal songs. For me, she's really given pop a lot more credibility in that it can mean something.

I admire people like this, that try and bring credibility and originality to the industry. It makes it even sadder when the majority of the pop industry disregard people like this and the household names are usually those four-chord artists.

Sometimes I wish I could jam with Beethoven.

Very true.
I think that she does bring originality to the industry but it's punctuated by that she doesn't try to be original. She does what she wants and doesn't compare herself to other people. That's an aspect of art and not commercial shit.

I know people say, "Lady Gaga's an arteeeest," and suchlike but, if people equate art to her, there is no chance of a musical renaissance, so to speak.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2010, 08:18:29 PM »

^
If Lady Gaga is an artist in the music industry, then all hope is lost forever and I will hasten my attempts to permanently take refuge in the 19th Century.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2010, 08:40:11 PM »

Take me and Sarah Slean with you, and make a pit stop to the 20th century for Sylvia Plath. ALL I ASK
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2010, 10:46:21 PM »

Take me and Sarah Slean with you, and make a pit stop to the 20th century for Sylvia Plath. ALL I ASK

We'll buy a hippie 1960's combie van and start a revolution.  :icon_rr:
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2010, 03:30:49 AM »

I have just heard something that reminded me of another crime that pop music often commits: chronic overuse of the Melisma. It’s like the Caps Lock of pop.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2010, 07:35:53 AM »

I have just heard something that reminded me of another crime that pop music often commits: chronic overuse of the Melisma. It’s like the Caps Lock of pop.

OMG I KNOW. And yeah, I know I just used the melisma of message boards, but it's the only way could express my hatred of that fucking thing. Urgh. It's like, no, sing the damn notes. Grr grr grr.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2010, 08:36:04 AM »

for the first time..ever really, I've started to like pop music.
mostly gaga.
well, exclusively gaga.

Once you like gaga, it's only a small step to Ke$ha.

And then the damage is truly irreversible.

Oh, come on now. Ke$ha is pretty awe$ome. Plu$, $uperfluou$ dollar $igns = epic win. I always felt the dollar $ign was underappreciated, but now I realize I can u$e it in place of an S$. Ke$ha logic = WIN.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2010, 02:00:11 PM »

what $ethie $aid...
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2010, 05:52:39 PM »

I have just heard something that reminded me of another crime that pop music often commits: chronic overuse of the Melisma. It’s like the Caps Lock of pop.

Haha. Sigged. :)

Too true, it shits me like hell.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2010, 06:08:37 PM »

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2010, 10:03:20 PM »

I'm not a huge fan of any pop music, but I just can't help but shed away all of my indie cred and get up and dance when I hear Single Ladies by Beyonce or Toxic by Britney Spears. I could also jam to anything Shakira ever did before She Wolf. I don't think simplicity is bad at all, complexity can be fantastic, but simplicity can be the best thing for your song really.
But when something becomes unoriginal and boring, that's when I say fuck this.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2010, 10:58:35 PM »

But when something becomes unoriginal and boring, that's when I say fuck this.

Lady Gaga in a sentence.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2010, 09:00:32 AM »

what $ethie $aid...

I should change my username to $ethie.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2010, 10:02:52 AM »

YE$
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2010, 11:25:21 AM »

^
If Lady Gaga is an artist in the music industry, then all hope is lost forever and I will hasten my attempts to permanently take refuge in the 19th Century.

Who made you the art police? xD This is a wholly pointless conversation - art's completely subjective, that's what's so gorgeous about it. If one person thinks someone's work is art, then it's as much art as the next person's work.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2010, 02:24:19 PM »

Take me and Sarah Slean with you, and make a pit stop to the 20th century for Sylvia Plath. ALL I ASK

We'll buy a hippie 1960's combie van and start a revolution.  :icon_rr:

A RENAISSANCE.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2010, 09:22:18 PM »

Take me and Sarah Slean with you, and make a pit stop to the 20th century for Sylvia Plath. ALL I ASK

We'll buy a hippie 1960's combie van and start a revolution.  :icon_rr:

A RENAISSANCE.
The early 90s called and they want their idea back.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2010, 09:56:37 PM »

Take me and Sarah Slean with you, and make a pit stop to the 20th century for Sylvia Plath. ALL I ASK

We'll buy a hippie 1960's combie van and start a revolution.  :icon_rr:

A RENAISSANCE.
The early 90s called and they want their idea back.

2010 wins for following the idea through first.
By the way, who has time travel technology?
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2010, 01:55:49 AM »

for the first time..ever really, I've started to like pop music.
mostly gaga.
well, exclusively gaga.

Once you like gaga, it's only a small step to Ke$ha.

Ke$ha is basically a bunch of bad rip offs of pop ideas thrown together, and it sounds like that.  You listen to it and go oh this sounds like a big pop song because of all the rip offs, not that it is actually good.

So I am pro-Gaga and not a Ke$ha fan at all  ;D

Gaga on the piano doing poker face got me, plus she does has lots of influences from the past 20-30 years of pop music but they are influences and blended with an overall style, unlike the cut and paste style of Ke$ha.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2010, 01:59:56 AM »

^
If Lady Gaga is an artist in the music industry, then all hope is lost forever and I will hasten my attempts to permanently take refuge in the 19th Century.

Who made you the art police? xD This is a wholly pointless conversation - art's completely subjective, that's what's so gorgeous about it. If one person thinks someone's work is art, then it's as much art as the next person's work.

Beat me to it  O0

But let us take a look at the visual arts for a second and one of the major artists of the early 20th century Duchamp.  If you want to talk about artist's creativity in how original their physical creation is you would hate his work:


Fountain by Marcel Duchamp, 1917
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2010, 02:44:44 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/qHBVnMf2t7w" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/qHBVnMf2t7w</a>
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.

I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE. IT MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT GIG.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2010, 06:15:05 AM »

^
If Lady Gaga is an artist in the music industry, then all hope is lost forever and I will hasten my attempts to permanently take refuge in the 19th Century.

Who made you the art police? xD This is a wholly pointless conversation - art's completely subjective, that's what's so gorgeous about it. If one person thinks someone's work is art, then it's as much art as the next person's work.

Beat me to it  O0



My oninion is not definiitive, not at all. This is merely a discussion where we civilised 'boxers can bitch and otherwise complain about pop music.

Gaga > Ke$ha
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2010, 12:46:21 PM »

^
If Lady Gaga is an artist in the music industry, then all hope is lost forever and I will hasten my attempts to permanently take refuge in the 19th Century.

Who made you the art police? xD This is a wholly pointless conversation - art's completely subjective, that's what's so gorgeous about it. If one person thinks someone's work is art, then it's as much art as the next person's work.

Art's subjective but that's not to say what Gaga does is art.

Also, renaissances bring about new things, new ideas. The concept of renaissance isn't anyone's idea; the ideas it brings about are.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2010, 01:34:31 PM »

Take me and Sarah Slean with you, and make a pit stop to the 20th century for Sylvia Plath. ALL I ASK

We'll buy a hippie 1960's combie van and start a revolution.  :icon_rr:

A RENAISSANCE.
The early 90s called and they want their idea back.

2010 wins for following the idea through first.
By the way, who has time travel technology?

You don't know about Woodstock 94 do you
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2010, 02:09:38 PM »

^
If Lady Gaga is an artist in the music industry, then all hope is lost forever and I will hasten my attempts to permanently take refuge in the 19th Century.

Who made you the art police? xD This is a wholly pointless conversation - art's completely subjective, that's what's so gorgeous about it. If one person thinks someone's work is art, then it's as much art as the next person's work.

Beat me to it  O0



My oninion is not definiitive, not at all. This is merely a discussion where we civilised 'boxers can bitch and otherwise complain about pop music.

Gaga > Ke$ha

Oh my fucking God you just made me cry with laughter, literally - I totally read that as "My onion is not definitive" :D Fuck, what I wouldn't give for my onions to be definitive....
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2010, 03:43:36 PM »

^
If Lady Gaga is an artist in the music industry, then all hope is lost forever and I will hasten my attempts to permanently take refuge in the 19th Century.

Who made you the art police? xD This is a wholly pointless conversation - art's completely subjective, that's what's so gorgeous about it. If one person thinks someone's work is art, then it's as much art as the next person's work.

Beat me to it  O0



My oninion is not definiitive, not at all. This is merely a discussion where we civilised 'boxers can bitch and otherwise complain about pop music.

Gaga > Ke$ha

Oh my fucking God you just made me cry with laughter, literally - I totally read that as "My onion is not definitive" :D Fuck, what I wouldn't give for my onions to be definitive....
just be like me, mine are.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2010, 05:24:29 PM »

[Hilarious Axis Of Awesome Clip.]
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.

I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE. IT MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT GIG.

I have seen them live too but only once. Unlike my sister who has seen them many times because she has a weird thing for Jordan.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2010, 05:41:33 PM »

[Hilarious Axis Of Awesome Clip.]
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.

I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE. IT MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT GIG.

I have seen them live too but only once. Unlike my sister who has seen them many times because she has a weird thing for Jordan.

Only concert I've seen live that was funnier than Axis of Awesome was Tenacious D.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2010, 05:47:13 PM »

[Hilarious Axis Of Awesome Clip.]
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.

I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE. IT MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT GIG.

I have seen them live too but only once. Unlike my sister who has seen them many times because she has a weird thing for Jordan.

Only concert I've seen live that was funnier than Axis of Awesome was Tenacious D.
And that is only because you haven't seen Weird Al.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2010, 05:51:06 PM »

[Hilarious Axis Of Awesome Clip.]
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.

I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE. IT MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT GIG.

I have seen them live too but only once. Unlike my sister who has seen them many times because she has a weird thing for Jordan.

Only concert I've seen live that was funnier than Axis of Awesome was Tenacious D.
And that is only because you haven't seen Weird Al.

Oh, I dunno... Jack Black is pretty freakin' funny.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2010, 08:22:10 PM »

[Hilarious Axis Of Awesome Clip.]
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.

I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE. IT MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT GIG.

I have seen them live too but only once. Unlike my sister who has seen them many times because she has a weird thing for Jordan.

Only concert I've seen live that was funnier than Axis of Awesome was Tenacious D.
And that is only because you haven't seen Weird Al.

Oh, I dunno... Jack Black is pretty freakin' funny.
I have seen Weird Al live (big surprise there, right?  I won't tell you who else I went with, but it
was someone much cooler then I).  I didn't really have the highest expectations; I mean, sure,
his songs are funny, but how long can he go and still be funny just one after another....

Actually, though, it was a really good show, very theatrical.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2010, 08:28:01 PM »

[Hilarious Axis Of Awesome Clip.]
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.

I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE. IT MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT GIG.

I have seen them live too but only once. Unlike my sister who has seen them many times because she has a weird thing for Jordan.

Only concert I've seen live that was funnier than Axis of Awesome was Tenacious D.
And that is only because you haven't seen Weird Al.

Oh, I dunno... Jack Black is pretty freakin' funny.
I have seen Weird Al live (big surprise there, right?  I won't tell you who else I went with, but it
was someone much cooler then I).  I didn't really have the highest expectations; I mean, sure,
his songs are funny, but how long can he go and still be funny just one after another....

Actually, though, it was a really good show, very theatrical.

I'M A BIRD-PLANE! A MOTHER-FUCKING BIRD-PLANE!
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2010, 11:12:09 PM »

[Hilarious Axis Of Awesome Clip.]
I am a motherfucking birdplane. (Sorry, I love them)


Also I agree with you but then I never really liked pop music so I don't think it has gone downhill recently - most of it has always been lame. That isn't to say though that a simple song can't be good. Sometimes less is more, even in music.

I HAVE SEEN THEM LIVE. IT MAY HAVE EVEN BEEN THAT GIG.

I have seen them live too but only once. Unlike my sister who has seen them many times because she has a weird thing for Jordan.

Only concert I've seen live that was funnier than Axis of Awesome was Tenacious D.
And that is only because you haven't seen Weird Al.

Oh, I dunno... Jack Black is pretty freakin' funny.
I have seen Weird Al live (big surprise there, right?  I won't tell you who else I went with, but it
was someone much cooler then I).  I didn't really have the highest expectations; I mean, sure,
his songs are funny, but how long can he go and still be funny just one after another....

Actually, though, it was a really good show, very theatrical.

I'M A BIRD-PLANE! A MOTHER-FUCKING BIRD-PLANE!

*makes mental note to see Wierd Al before death*
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2010, 11:36:21 PM »

^  Totally worth the money...  Seriously.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2010, 05:54:40 AM »

^  Totally worth the money...  Seriously.

Id imagine so, if the quality of his songs are anything to go by.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2010, 12:51:35 PM »

^  Totally worth the money...  Seriously.
Id imagine so, if the quality of his songs are anything to go by.
In my estimation, and anyone/everyone is free to disagree if they feel so inclined, I would put
Weird Al in the category of artists-whose-shows-are-better-than-their-albums...

...and I like his albums.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2010, 04:17:03 PM »

^ I am in no place to comment, but I would put Tenacious D in this category too.
Jack Black makes an entire audience simultaneously orgasm musically.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2010, 05:17:02 PM »

Jack Black just doesn't do much for me musically. I've only ever really liked Wonderboy.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2010, 06:02:11 AM »

Jack Black just doesn't do much for me musically. I've only ever really liked Wonderboy.

No Tribute? I won't lie, that song is fairly overplayed. But still pretty awesome.
And the self-titled album is mostly skits so not much musical substance, which is probably part of why you hold this opinion.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2010, 09:22:30 AM »

With Karate I'll kick your ass!
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2010, 02:03:09 PM »

even most of his movies are too over the top for me.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2010, 02:43:56 PM »

With Hai Karate I'll kick your ass!


 O0
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2010, 04:59:50 AM »

With Karate I'll kick your ass!

From here to right over there!
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2010, 03:42:28 PM »

Maybe people will disagree with me but I've been thinking about what dates music and I think 80’s pop music in particular seems to be less timeless when compared to the rest of 20th century pop music. There are exceptions of course but the 80’s stands out in particular. I think it might have something to do with the superfluous use of new gimmicky technology that was cutting edge at the time, which has since been surpassed. 

Over the last few years, use of vocoders (+ the creative/incidental use of pitch correction/alteration) has become increasingly popular in pop and I wonder if perhaps it's going to date music in the same way. It's not that I'm opposed to vocoders (& pitch correction/alteration) or that I'm especially bothered about contemporary pop becoming dated; I'm just intrigued about what we might be saying about the use of vocoders in pop a few years from now.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2010, 04:47:55 PM »

the vocoder's use in popular music is approaching the 40-year mark. they're part of the musical landscape now. I don't know if quantized vocals (aka the AutoTune Robot effect) will have the same staying power.

I hope not, though.

#@!

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2010, 05:06:57 PM »

The question now is,

Where do we go from here? Does music become a great big circle and we start composing fugues and motets again?
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2010, 05:26:56 PM »

the vocoder's use in popular music is approaching the 40-year mark. they're part of the musical landscape now. I don't know if quantized vocals (aka the AutoTune Robot effect) will have the same staying power.

I hope not, though.

#@!

The vocoder has been around for a while but I'm noticing altered vocals a lot more these days regardless of what was used to produce the effect. I think that modest application of these types of audio processing can provide songs with distinctiveness that adds to timelessness. However, if a lot of artistes are using the same tricks the advantage is lost.

Oh, and yes, quantized vocals are pretty annoying now that it's become a fad. I’m guessing it is partly because auto-tuning hardware + software is cheaper and easier to play around with these days. The ease with which the effect can be applied combined with its novelty would suggest to me that people are quite likely to be calling it dated at some point. Having said that, it depends if people on the whole care about something being dated. Perhaps music is getting less linear (developing less over time-spans and recycling ideas from an eclectic pool of ideas) nowadays? I don't know.

The question now is,

Where do we go from here? Does music become a great big circle and we start composing fugues and motets again?

On the contrary, we begin the quest for the finest arrangement of 140 notes. It’s as easy as DNA.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2010, 06:27:11 PM »

I'm always bickering with a friend about autotune. I'm against it, she's for it.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2010, 06:54:19 PM »

I'm always bickering with a friend about autotune. I'm against it, she's for it.
Used as a deliberate effect (in moderation) => fine

Used to hide the fact that [pop starlet du jour] can't carry a tune in a bucket,
and just assuming people can't tell the difference => needs to stop...
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #79 on: March 21, 2010, 09:55:16 PM »

I love pop music but I totally agree that it's gone to SHIT.
Disappointed  >:(
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #80 on: March 21, 2010, 10:12:37 PM »

Let me try and sum up my views in a simplified manner.



^ This good.



^ This bad.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #81 on: March 21, 2010, 10:13:28 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^^  O0

BIG TIME
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #82 on: March 24, 2010, 11:49:04 AM »

I can respect a fantastic voice, even if I don't like the music (good morning, Beyonce). 

But if I'm going to listen to pop, it had better be distinguished from the rest of its genre by SOMETHING.  Pink has more of a pop-rock style and that raspy-edged voice, which I like.  GaGa is fucking insane and only does Auto-Tune for effect; also, she is never afraid to go balls-to-the-wall on the vocals, which a lot of people (pop stars or not) tend to back away from. 

Katy Perry needs to be shot repeatedly in the face.
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cynthiaskeezy

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2010, 09:32:00 PM »

Katy Perry needs to be shot repeatedly in the face.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #84 on: March 25, 2010, 01:21:51 AM »

Katy Perry needs to be shot repeatedly in the face.
i can think of some good personal preference things that she'd be good for that don't include singing. But that is more for the "people you'd like to bang" thread.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #85 on: March 25, 2010, 03:23:10 AM »

i hate auto tune, if you cant sing get the FUCK out of the business, i dont care how entertaining some 14 year olds think you are...if you cant play your instrument also GTFO

pop music of today has done nothing but turned something beautiful into absolute shit, i cant stand being in stores that play pop music channels (including the one i work in, i try to keep my headphones on if i have to be on the sales floor) we WILL NOT listen to radio stations in our home unless its classical music or something similar

also i dont care if your singing is decent if you use it to sing shit (that means you christina and beyonce) i also HATE HATE HATE when people say things like "omg so-n-so is SUCH a good singer!!" and they are complete crap...just because some can carry a tune doesnt make them a good singer...although if they person has brilliant lyrics i will lay off their singing a bit
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #86 on: March 25, 2010, 08:23:37 AM »

^^ I do music tech at college, and I can tell you that the people who use auto-tune are WAY more than the idiot popstars you're thinking of. Yes, it's horrible when you hear it done to death, but I've used it a few times on my own vocals - almost everybody does, tbh. As for people who can't sing, almost all the groups I like can't sing - Neutral Milk Hotel, anyone? Or pretty much any punk band ever? What pisses me the fuck off is this incredibly rigid idea of what a "good" voice is - Guy Garvey would never win like X Factor or something, but he's got one of the most beautiful, gorgeous voices in the business. Unfortunately, he sings high and in his own accent HORROR HORROR HORROR.

There are a LOT of things about pop music that I really like - mostly the music, as opposed to the lyrics and the vocals, tbh. The good stuff is sooo good, but it's like any other genre - there will always be really shitty elements within it, whether it's production effects or whole groups that suck. With the lyrics and things, I guess it's like stories - there's really only so many thing to say in the world, you can't blame people for repeating the sentiment. The fucktard thing is that they don't repeat the sentiment, they repeat the phraseology word for fucking word, and that's where it all falls down. The sentiment of "I broke my heart" can be said in so much more of a gorgeous way, like, "My heart just burst like a glass balloon" *dribble* xD
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #87 on: March 25, 2010, 02:10:12 PM »

Ladies and Gentlemen, Autotune The News:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xVWyjSDg2Yo" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xVWyjSDg2Yo</a>
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #88 on: March 25, 2010, 09:06:13 PM »

Does anyone have anything to say anything about the whole Lady Gaga discussion Amanda Palmer had on twitter last night?

I'd like to say that Justin Bieber is a douche bag who needs to stop trending on twitter. 10 year olds shouldn't be allowed to have one.
Lady Gaga- I have mixed feelings
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #89 on: March 27, 2010, 01:21:48 AM »

to indja: it's one thing to use auto tune as an added effect which many artists have done, it's totally different when almost all singers now a days NEED to use it so that it sorta sounds like they can hit the right notes...also i'm just kinda getting sick of that whole thing (unless it's in dance/techno/electronica because then it makes sense since it's ya know electronic) i just dont understand why people all the sudden think it's the shit, if you cant sing then you cant sing to bad, granted as i said before if you have lyrics that make up for it then awesome i dont care, but if you're a shit singer with shit lyrics, then you honestly should not be a musician no please go away

CeeGBee: that is fucking hilarious, and i approve the use of auto tune there

cynthiaskeezy: i totally skimmed through it but i'm not surprised she did it because she's a pop idol who is being used to sell shit music, why not use her to sell shit products
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #90 on: March 27, 2010, 08:57:04 AM »

to indja: it's one thing to use auto tune as an added effect which many artists have done, it's totally different when almost all singers now a days NEED to use it so that it sorta sounds like they can hit the right notes...also i'm just kinda getting sick of that whole thing (unless it's in dance/techno/electronica because then it makes sense since it's ya know electronic) i just dont understand why people all the sudden think it's the shit, if you cant sing then you cant sing to bad, granted as i said before if you have lyrics that make up for it then awesome i dont care, but if you're a shit singer with shit lyrics, then you honestly should not be a musician no please go away

I don't mean they use it as an effect, I mean they use it to hit the notes - I can carry a tune no problem, but sometimes I manage to write a song that I can't actually sing xD Autotune can be used to make a good singer just a little bit better, but I personally hate it when it's used as an effect in electro and stuff. There are SO many awesome things you can do to a vocal, autotune just sounds cheap and lazy - yesterday I made it sound like there was a voice at the back of your head speaking through a telephone in a dungeon. 'Twas awesome xD But autotune just pisses me off when it's used as an effect - it's just sooo over-fucking-done >.< Doesn't even sound good though, you know? Like music will always repeat itself and take from what came before it and all that, but FUCK I hope autotune has had it's day.

</techy nerd rant>
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #91 on: March 27, 2010, 11:31:07 AM »

Using autotune can actually make a fairly good singer worse in the long term because of the way people get used to approximating pitch. This pitching problem can occur because the singer hears the correction and then adjusts the vocal as if singing without autotune. Autotune will again correct this drift and the process repeats. It won’t be obvious at first but over time it can reduce a singers intuition towards hitting the notes at the correct pitch.

The way around it is to ensure that the singer hears an unprocessed mix (or only marginally processed mix) when performing. The only snag is that hearing a corrected mix can be a real confidence booster for the singer and actually enhance the performance because the singer is enjoying the performance more. Few singers, even very good ones, hit notes dead on so it's potentially a problem that will catch out the better singers too.

Any thoughts on auto-doubling? It’s kind of like having double tracked vocals live. Quite a few performers are using it…   
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #92 on: March 27, 2010, 01:39:20 PM »

I've not worked with any singers that aren't, um, at my college doing music tech xD So I don't really know about that side of things, as I'm mostly just edited myself or a friend - usually myself. On a personal note though, I hate listening to my old takes when I'm recording - I like having lots that are all a bit different and then layering them up or cutting bits out of one and putting it in another or whatever, it appeals to me xD If you don't have the confidence to perform even if you think you might be a bit crummy then I don't know why you'd be in a studio anyway.

I don't like auto-doubling much either, tbh - I think that a live performance should be as live as possible, and if that means changing your sound then so be it. It's just a personal thing though, I don't think it's as much of a problem as auto-tuning.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #93 on: March 27, 2010, 01:42:45 PM »

wot about... and a couple of artists I quite like do this a bit....
People who use a loop-pedal to provide their own "live" backup
vocals or rhythm track?
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #94 on: March 27, 2010, 01:43:56 PM »

Then that's still their talent being put to use in the moment - if I complained there, I'd end up saying no-one should use instruments at all xD
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #95 on: March 27, 2010, 02:11:08 PM »

Then that's still their talent being put to use in the moment - if I complained there, I'd end up saying no-one should use instruments at all xD
I agree precisely.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #96 on: March 27, 2010, 03:54:57 PM »

Indja:

I haven’t used autotune on anyone but I have something that is capable of doing it and the manual warns about pitch drift. That’s about as much as I know about it. The confidence I’m talking about is more of a buzz-like confidence that you get when things are going well or when the singer isn’t under pressure to get it right. It’s not about having serious doubts about performing. My former sound engineering tutor said that he would often not tell the singer that he was recording the test run because there was always a chance that the recording would be the best one. A singers anticipation about serious recordings often meant that this was the time when they would believe there was nothing at stake and give the most relaxed performance. Some recording applications acknowledge this psychological factor and have a pre-record feature built into software that saves a certain amount of mic input without it being officially recorded... Autotune can serve a similar purpose and let a performer know that as long as they are in a general target zone they are going to sound good.

I’m trying to figure out if I like auto-doubling. It can sometimes sound a bit too much but on some settings it seems quite subtle. I keep thinking of the resistance that people put up against the electric guitar and wonder if vocals might be going through a similar revolution. After all, you can use auto-doubling on a guitar and no one would think twice about it.

wot about... and a couple of artists I quite like do this a bit....
People who use a loop-pedal to provide their own "live" backup
vocals or rhythm track?
A band I played for used synth and drum backing tracks and you could tell some people got it and others didn’t. The main problem is that major parts can lose chemistry and sound a bit mechanical and rigid. In a live performance players will be responding to each other’s playing and making very subtle adjustments that create a sense of organic unity in the music. Some music is fine without this and if anything dance music depends heavily on a strict tempo so that its use of time dependent delays can pay off. In practice it is sometimes better than the alternatives and I think I would choose this method if I were going to seriously make music.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #97 on: March 27, 2010, 07:42:42 PM »

Rather than a pre-recorded backing track, I meant...

...um, watch: I find this very clever.  It's just the one performer, truly playing
"live", but using technology to create a much more layered sound...
(I'm told she developed the technique while busking on sidewalks and in train stations...)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HYEU91d8ngc" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HYEU91d8ngc</a>
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #98 on: March 27, 2010, 11:55:06 PM »

honestly i have NEVER had a problem correctly hitting notes, and neither do any other real singers, sure there's that every once in a while thing so you redo it, it's not that big of a deal, auto tune is just another lazy way for people to pretend that they're much better then they really are which is stupid

also i like the when people like bobby mcferrin does things like ceegbee is talking about, it's the shit
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #99 on: March 28, 2010, 08:18:08 AM »

I'm not doubting that you're an ace singer, but I think your capslockworthy "never" is pretty rare. I'm not saying use it when someone can't even get near to the note, but if they're like a fraction off on an otherwise perfectly good take then why not?

I do love that layering thing KT Tunstall does - when I saw AFP the lady with the cello and the awesome hair who's name I've forgotten did it to spectacular effect. Love ittt.

Morpheus, my music tech teacher does that thing where you record the first take. He tried it on me though, and didn't realise that I suffer horribly from nerves and need at least three goes before I get a fucking grip and sing properly xD Needless to say, my first takes are never my best... (I know this sounds epically hypocritical after what I said about nerves, but I have to record my vocals in music tech, partly for the course and partly because I'm the only person in there who can sing that low. I sing like a man. Otherwise I'd really rather not.)
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #100 on: March 28, 2010, 08:57:32 AM »

when I saw AFP the lady with the cello and the awesome hair who's name I've forgotten did it to spectacular effect. Love ittt.
Zoe Keating?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yYrcXX4nWOA&amp;feature=fvw" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/yYrcXX4nWOA&amp;feature=fvw</a>

I approve.
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #101 on: March 28, 2010, 11:35:42 AM »

Yes!! I was pretty sure it was a Zoe but I didn't want to make a tit out of myself if it wasn't xD
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #102 on: March 28, 2010, 04:34:28 PM »

if you're that close to a note and miss it? then you need to practice more...i think we will never agree on this...it's probably because i am such a perfectionist when it comes to music that i feel like you should work as hard as fucking possible to be able to do it correctly, and also as far as the never missing notes, as long as they're inside the persons range i know many people who have no problem hitting them spot on granted if they're trying to sing something not in their range it's different
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #103 on: March 28, 2010, 04:42:03 PM »

I think that you're right that we'll disagree xD I'm not a perfectionist, not by a long shot - obviously I don't like epic mistakes, but I quite enjoy fixing the little mistakes (it's the music tech geek in me xD).
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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #104 on: March 28, 2010, 04:42:58 PM »

I think that you're right that we'll disagree xD I'm not a perfectionist, not by a long shot - obviously I don't like epic mistakes, but I quite enjoy fixing the little mistakes (it's the music tech geek in me xD).

makes sense, i could care less about the tech part except for just using tech things to record it or making electronic music
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #105 on: March 29, 2010, 04:23:27 AM »

Rather than a pre-recorded backing track, I meant...

...um, watch: I find this very clever.  It's just the one performer, truly playing
"live", but using technology to create a much more layered sound...
(I'm told she developed the technique while busking on sidewalks and in train stations...)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HYEU91d8ngc" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HYEU91d8ngc</a>

Sure, but it is essentially the same problem so I lump the two togethor... Also, it's not necessarily a big problem by any means and it can be a very effective way to create music. The main difference with any kind pre-recording is that the parts will not be playing to each other and it is that which makes a performance feel all the more unified. This isn't essential to a good show but it can really bring out a song. 

The KT Tunstall approach probably has more credibility than other types of prerecording because it goes down well with fans that like the idea of "live" being something unique to that moment. It also looks (and is) impressive because any mistake would be on repeat indefinately.

if you're that close to a note and miss it? then you need to practice more...i think we will never agree on this...it's probably because i am such a perfectionist when it comes to music that i feel like you should work as hard as fucking possible to be able to do it correctly, and also as far as the never missing notes, as long as they're inside the persons range i know many people who have no problem hitting them spot on granted if they're trying to sing something not in their range it's different

No one ever hits the exact frequency the same each time. It will be close enough to be acceptable but the auto-tuning process (at that level) will be used to ensure that all parts are standardised for maximum effect.  In fact, vocal doubling exploits the natural variance of vocal pitch so that the sound can be thickened. Autodoubling creates a mathematical variation of the frequencies to imitatate double-tracking and effectively leaves you with two or more pieces of audio that will sound very much the same if listened to separately. In this instance, auto-tune will be applied to ensure that the variant pieces are not more out of tune than they need to be. Because of this, it is easier for a good singers sense of pitch to shift without anyone noticing, especially if autotune is routinely used on live performances. Admittedly, tuning near-perfection to perfection is not something that people will be especially bothered about but there is a degree of anal retentiveness about things like this when it comes to audio engineers justifying  high rates. Also, in the same way that glamour magizines can make attractive people doubt their appearance, autotune can instill a nagging sense of doubt in a good singer because the musicians themselves are often the biggest critics of their work.


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tanqgirl

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #106 on: March 30, 2010, 03:46:13 AM »

^ yes i know all that but i strive to work hard to get it exact with my own voice, i dont need a machine to fix it when i can do it myself, and although the 2 notes will never be exactly the same as long as they are indeed as close as possible that's good enough for me
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #107 on: March 31, 2010, 05:47:49 AM »

^Sure and that's the ideal route…

The most likely scenario of good singer using auto tune is not for the kind of perfection I described there. That's just the stage where people begin to encounter the industry obsession for perfection and it can make them take precautions that they would never have taken in years gone by when they perform live.

The pitch drift risk is more likely to happen when people reach a stage where they try to overstretch themselves and include elements in their live performance that can make them concerned about their vocals suffering. They might include energetic dance movement or wear fashions that prevent an ideal breathing technique; Add in a heavy touring schedule and fatigue puts people at risk at greater risk of mistakes. These types of things are examples of when singers might decide that it gives them confidence or an edge even though ordinarily they wouldn't need it.

There are other bad habits that should perhaps be avoided by professional/semi-professional singers which are all too often succumbed to and might necessitate auto tune as a safety net: Drinking Alcohol, eating spicy foods, drinking too much coffee and having to speak/shout loudly over noise at venues. All these put a strain on a voice that might make a singer feel concerned about delivering.
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tanqgirl

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #108 on: March 31, 2010, 01:52:15 PM »

i still disagree, it's one thing to just work towards singing correctly-i'm well aware that it will never be 100% perfect but i can still try and i will not stop taking risks just because i'm afraid i wont hit a note, i personally dont work that way if someone else does well that sucks for them

and honestly if i were to start using autotune for whatever reason i would feel shitty about myself as a singer, not get a confidence boost

also i dont drink alcohol often at all, i'm not a fan of spicy foods, i hate coffee and if im in somewhere noisy and i know it will mess with my voice then i'll either not talk or text someone if i REALLY need to talk to them and they cant hear me
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #109 on: March 31, 2010, 04:13:58 PM »

I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with in particular but I'll try my best to answer what I think might be your point...

Using auto-tune for the reasons I described is an individual's decision and entirely subjective to their preferences. You have a sense of pride in your authentic approach (I’ll never knock that) but others don’t mind cheating a little because it is a means to an end. Some people feel bad about cheating and others don’t.

Perhaps you are coming from the perspective that good singers would always pride themselves on having an authentic approach? I would disagree there… At some stage or another, many common place approaches have been condemned for straying from tradition only to be absorbed into the arsenal of valid approaches… Compression takes the skill away from controlling vocal dynamics but most singers benefit a little bit from it. Double tracking is also commonplace but it artificially strengthens vocals that would otherwise get lost in the mix and sound weedy. With the latter, it is possible to view it as an aesthetic choice but it is still, for all practical purposes, a vocal strengthening technique. Many vocal effects that are now accepted as creative and stylistic have been used to cover flaws in vocals and people have been criticised for it.

There are, of course, very good reasons for taking the masterful approach to art and it is admirable but if the distinction is not admired by the buying public, what can you do? If someone compromises their vocal ability and the fans accept the fix then it is the end result that those people care about and not the dedication towards conserving the voice.
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tanqgirl

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #110 on: April 01, 2010, 02:04:50 AM »

ha forgive me sometimes when i try to argue either right after i wake up or before i fall asleep i have a terrible tendency to not finish/compete what i'm saying or not make sense...

i think what it is is that im more into the "this is my voice that i worked really hard to get as near perfect as possible with no cheating" as opposed to many pop and whatnot artists now who are more "yea well i tried and cant really do it so how about you just fix that for me cause i'm a bit to lazy to try harder to fix it myself" or the "i look good on camera so lets use auto tune to completely make it sound like i can sing" that is my BIG issue with it...

for an example of auto tune that im cool with...this chick can sing this whole song completely and totally (i'm learning it btw  ^-^ ) and doesnt need the auto tune and other fun shit that they added in there, they did it for the effect/movie/whatever, but she doesnt NEED it, that is what it should be used for IMO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNpv-VHGDKU&feature=related

ps: i dont mean to say that you're totally wrong, i just disagree so please dont take anything i say the wrong way
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #111 on: April 01, 2010, 06:39:05 AM »

Don’t worry, I’m not taking it the wrong the way. I don’t want you take anything I say the wrong way either but sometimes internet communication makes an opinion look quite coarse.

It’s annoying when someone puts in effort to do something and others don’t but still get the same credit...but it happens and perhaps people are missing something important or perhaps they are not. I recommend an authentic approach where possible because there are things you learn from it that get overlooked. For example: singers use the melisma as a way to get a rise from the audience because it suggests feeling. When people opt for that they miss other important ways of adding emotion. I believe there is a similar truth with the auto-tune situation too. Auto-tune standardises things (depending on which auto-tuning method is chosen) in ways that can take some of the character out of the music. When an engineer manually goes to “enhance” a vocal there are some decisions going on about how natural the tuning should be and it can result in an overly uniform rendition of the vocal. Vibrato, for instance, can be pulled tighter to create a note that is more in-tune sounding overall but it is the engineer that has to make the call. There isn’t a good reason why the engineer’s preference for reduced vibrato should reflect what people might generally like to hear.

So it’s not like my opinion is very different to yours other than that I am perhaps less bothered that people accept mediocrity (and a lot of it).   
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tanqgirl

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #112 on: April 02, 2010, 02:33:33 AM »

yes internet doesnt make communicating easy sometimes...and funnily enough i did recently have a discussion with an ex of mine about mediocrity and how i dont think it should be accepted in things such as music/acting/etc. and he is a mediocre musician so it made him mad, but i have to honestly say that i dont care because im sick of seeing people who are amazing and spend their entire lives working at it get no where while people who either suck or are ok get big because they're willing to sacrifice their dignity and creativeness
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simon tongue

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Re: Pop Music.
« Reply #113 on: April 19, 2010, 10:53:10 PM »

Rather than a pre-recorded backing track, I meant...

...um, watch: I find this very clever.  It's just the one performer, truly playing
"live", but using technology to create a much more layered sound...
(I'm told she developed the technique while busking on sidewalks and in train stations...)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HYEU91d8ngc" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HYEU91d8ngc</a>

I saw that performance when it first aired and it tricked me into buying the album which is as bland as something very bland (unlike that performance). I had a friend who used a similar pedal and used it to do a one man show and jumped from metal to jazz to all sorts in-between.

Here is my contribution to recent great pop music. It's pop but it's also quirky and fun. VV Brown on Jools...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/PpgBM2Ei70E" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/PpgBM2Ei70E</a>
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