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Author Topic: BLOG: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"  (Read 54610 times)

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jerkofalltrades

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2010, 08:48:39 PM »

I think everybody should read The Lives and Loves of Daisy and Violet Hilton A true story of Conjoined Twins. It's obvious that Amanda and Jason have taken some key points from it. As for the child pornography aspect it didn't come as that much of a surprise to me, i picked up on it in A Campaign of Shock and Awe. Particularly the line I hear you like twins have i got a surprise, they're so well behaved, not a single complaint yet. I may have missed a line but that's the jist of it. Allot of people are probably going to be turned of by the whole project. The whole darkness aspect adds allot of depth to the story, it makes the characters more realistic and sympathetic. It may not be for everyone, but i hope the final product turns out to be as epic as Amanda says it's going to be.
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roboticvampire

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2010, 08:55:26 PM »

Allot of people are probably going to be turned of by the whole project.
Which, remember, is a good thing.
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embitteredatheist

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2010, 09:13:55 PM »

I have to admit I'm torn between the reactions of 'it was amusing for a bit but now it's just been taken too far' and 'complete and utter apathy with respect to the whole project'.
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bec

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2010, 10:58:02 PM »

Maybe people should stop getting their knickers in a twist over what is basically a fairy tale and worry about the real injustices in the world.

If you don't like the project then no one has a gun to your head - don't buy it.

I'm not trying to offend anybody but seriously you have the option to look away. No one will die if you do.

qft, couldn't gave said it better myself.

Kovacs

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2010, 10:59:34 PM »

The child porn thing seemed random, and turned me off the rest of the blog. It didn't seem to add to any sort of depth of story, it just kind of shocked and then exited.

The character(s) are interesting. I don't think the project will be injured from this. There's something to be said for honoring ones characters...but I hate the backlash from something like this. It makes it impossible to artistically do anything even slightly negative towards a character with any unique attributes that someone else might share (unless, of course, you know someone who has the same affliction). Sensitivity is one thing, but artistic restriction as a result of sensitivity...

Also, as a side note, in terms of telling people to ignore things they find offensive, that argument gets thrown around a lot, and is circular (since you can just ignore their responses without dictating what they do in turn).
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My Two Innings

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2010, 12:42:23 AM »

Apparently the Evelyns are offensive http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/02/09/evelyn-evelyn-ableism-ableism/

But don't bother commenting on this woman's blog if you feel differently because

Quote
Special commenting note: First-time commenters, please read and abide by our comments policy. Kindly refrain from commenting if your argument consists of any of the following: “You just don’t get it,” “You do not understand art,” “You are taking this too seriously,” “Evelyn Evelyn is not real, therefore the stereotypes about disability examined here do not matter,”  “Justify your experience and/or disability to me, NOW,” “Why are you criticizing Amanda Palmer? She is brilliant; how dare you!” I am familiar with all of these arguments — please be aware that they will probably not add anything to the discussion because they are classic derailing tactics, and I will most likely decline to publish comments that utilize the above arguments.

wow. that really pissed me off. i did leave a comment though, but i made sure i only mentioned the "special commenting note" O0

Agreed.  The pre-emptive indignation from the blogger was bullying, manipulative, and condescending.

caddy

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2010, 01:07:53 AM »

Okay, anybody who actually thought these characters were real, do this.  Plug in your toaster.  Take a fork.  Pull now the bar to turn it on.  Stick the fork inside.  If you don't have a toaster, jamming the fork straight into the wall socket will also work just fine.  Since I cannot smack these people for their willful ignorance, I request they hurt themselves in a way that says, No Virginia, there is no Santa Claus.


As for being insulted by the child abuse part...these are fictional characters.  This is not a matter of AMANDA PALMER IS A GODDESS, no.  God, no. This is a matter of you're a grown ass man/woman, and you should have been raised to tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction.  And there are many a fictional story/novel/song/musical/play written about child abuse.  Even dark comedies, I should mention.  How is this any different from that.  As a matter of fact, the whole concept album is just kinda ...eh.  I haven't been all that interested in Evelyn Evelyn since they first showed up, personally.

Also, think of the references with the name The Dresden Dolls, and how they're one part violence, and one part innocence.  These seemingly innocent sisters with a violent back story seems about Amanda's main shtick.  I'd actually be way more insulted that their back story isn't way more interesting, personally.  Child pornography and the circus with a two-headed elephant?  Like Kovacs said, the child porn part just shocks, and then that's it.  Though if I were Amanda, and knew that my fans were so gullible, I'd totally set up a trial and everything, with dates, and names of lawyers about how they're currently suing the people in Manitoba, Canada who exploited them sexually, and write blogs about it every week.



Yeah.  Totally.  DOOOOO EEEEEETTTT, AMANDA.
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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2010, 01:20:12 AM »

Okay, anybody who actually thought these characters were real, do this.  Plug in your toaster.  Take a fork.  Pull now the bar to turn it on.  Stick the fork inside.  If you don't have a toaster, jamming the fork straight into the wall socket will also work just fine.  Since I cannot smack these people for their willful ignorance, I request they hurt themselves in a way that says, No Virginia, there is no Santa Claus.


As for being insulted by the child abuse part...these are fictional characters.  This is not a matter of AMANDA PALMER IS A GODDESS, no.  God, no. This is a matter of you're a grown ass man/woman, and you should have been raised to tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction.  And there are many a fictional story/novel/song/musical/play written about child abuse.  Even dark comedies, I should mention.  How is this any different from that.  As a matter of fact, the whole concept album is just kinda ...eh.  I haven't been all that interested in Evelyn Evelyn since they first showed up, personally.

Also, think of the references with the name The Dresden Dolls, and how they're one part violence, and one part innocence.  These seemingly innocent sisters with a violent back story seems about Amanda's main shtick.  I'd actually be way more insulted that their back story isn't way more interesting, personally.  Child pornography and the circus with a two-headed elephant?  Like Kovacs said, the child porn part just shocks, and then that's it.  Though if I were Amanda, and knew that my fans were so gullible, I'd totally set up a trial and everything, with dates, and names of lawyers about how they're currently suing the people in Manitoba, Canada who exploited them sexually, and write blogs about it every week.



Yeah.  Totally.  DOOOOO EEEEEETTTT, AMANDA.
Caddy, I love you  :love5:
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caddy

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2010, 02:00:34 AM »

Okay, anybody who actually thought these characters were real, do this.  Plug in your toaster.  Take a fork.  Pull now the bar to turn it on.  Stick the fork inside.  If you don't have a toaster, jamming the fork straight into the wall socket will also work just fine.  Since I cannot smack these people for their willful ignorance, I request they hurt themselves in a way that says, No Virginia, there is no Santa Claus.


As for being insulted by the child abuse part...these are fictional characters.  This is not a matter of AMANDA PALMER IS A GODDESS, no.  God, no. This is a matter of you're a grown ass man/woman, and you should have been raised to tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction.  And there are many a fictional story/novel/song/musical/play written about child abuse.  Even dark comedies, I should mention.  How is this any different from that.  As a matter of fact, the whole concept album is just kinda ...eh.  I haven't been all that interested in Evelyn Evelyn since they first showed up, personally.

Also, think of the references with the name The Dresden Dolls, and how they're one part violence, and one part innocence.  These seemingly innocent sisters with a violent back story seems about Amanda's main shtick.  I'd actually be way more insulted that their back story isn't way more interesting, personally.  Child pornography and the circus with a two-headed elephant?  Like Kovacs said, the child porn part just shocks, and then that's it.  Though if I were Amanda, and knew that my fans were so gullible, I'd totally set up a trial and everything, with dates, and names of lawyers about how they're currently suing the people in Manitoba, Canada who exploited them sexually, and write blogs about it every week.



Yeah.  Totally.  DOOOOO EEEEEETTTT, AMANDA.
Caddy, I love you  :love5:

Teh totalfroggie, yaaaay.  *squeeksnug* Hai hai!  I've been absent for a while, aino.
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My Two Innings

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2010, 02:52:03 AM »

Amanda's art lies squarely within the cabaret tradition and is entirely appropriate in that context.

Cabaret as a genre provides a safe space for exploring touchy, edgy subjects by treating them humorously, satirically, or entertainingly, for the sake of illuminating the humanity at their core.  Like gossip, cabaret art is, at least in part, a social conversation to discuss communally essential truths, including where the boundaries are.

Think of the satirical cabaret show-within-a-show in the movie Cabaret.  The stage show and its songs depict poverty, hunger, greed, promiscuity, bisexuality, antiSemitism, Naziism, etc.   We gasp when the "bride" is revealed to be an ape, and then Jewish.  Is that depiction in the 1970's movie unacceptable on the face of it, due to its vile antiSemitism -- i.e. should the piece never have been written, performed, and filmed at all -- or does it serve an illuminating purpose by laying bare the antiSemitism of 1930's Germany (and elsewhere, and elsewhen) through satirical mockery?

Think of the subjects of Amanda's songs "Missed Me", "Slide", "Oasis", and "Mandy Goes to Med School", to name just a few.  "Oasis" alone treats alcohol abuse, date rape, abortion, manipulation, betrayal, and denial (all in under two minutes).  Those are hardly the only examples of difficult subjects in her repertoire.  When in "Guitar Hero" the narrator says "Tie them up and feed them the sand -- ha! Nigga!", is her use of the n-word variant vile and unacceptable on the face of it -- i.e. should the song have never been written and performed -- or does it serve a greater satirical purpose by illuminating the vulgar slang used by gamers and soldiers alike to dehumanize one's virtual and real enemies?

The critics are welcome to say, they don't like this or that or that something is bad or wrong.  That's part of the conversation.  And granted, the original conception of Evelyn Evelyn seemed more screwball than satirical or purposeful, though the more recent E-E bio can be seen as a kind of a text-based cabaret number.  My point is, if you're the kind of person who sees Tom Lehrer's "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" as a political statement against animal rights, you're unlikely to find much of value in Amanda's songs -- or indeed, the entire cabaret tradition.


***
Update: I've posted a slightly expanded version of this mini-essay on my blog, http://mytwoinnings.blogspot.com.

caddy

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2010, 02:54:24 AM »

My point is, if you're the kind of person who sees Tom Lehrer's "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" as a political statement against animal rights, you're unlikely to find much of value in Amanda's songs -- or indeed, the entire cabaret tradition.



That is the best comment, ever.  I need to listen to this song now.  At one point, my guy and I could have sincerely called it our song.
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The Angel Raliel

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2010, 05:07:39 AM »

interesting that the outraged people would pay to go and see real conjoined twins onstage.....this is a kind of victorian freakshow sentiment...where people feel better about themselves by visiting the freaks as an act of kindness (in fact middle class voyeurism is closer to the truth)

How many people who feel outraged dutifully watch all those documentaries about conjoined twins, huge people and primordial dwarfs? I am sure they watch them purely for the scientific content.
Personally I think the next project should be a musical about Walter Potter.... eccentric father of taxidermy

the stitched kitten waltz will be truly awesome
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One should always be a little improbable.

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2010, 05:48:15 AM »

Amanda's art lies squarely within the cabaret tradition and is entirely appropriate in that context.

Cabaret as a genre provides a safe space for exploring touchy, edgy subjects by treating them humorously, satirically, or entertainingly, for the sake of illuminating the humanity at their core.  Like gossip, cabaret art is, at least in part, a social conversation to discuss communally essential truths, including where the boundaries are.

Think of the satirical cabaret show-within-a-show in the movie Cabaret.  The stage show and its songs depict poverty, hunger, greed, promiscuity, bisexuality, antiSemitism, Naziism, etc.   We gasp when the "bride" is revealed to be an ape, and then Jewish.  Is that depiction in the 1970's movie unacceptable on the face of it, due to its vile antiSemitism -- i.e. should the piece never have been written, performed, and filmed at all -- or does it serve an illuminating purpose by laying bare the antiSemitism of 1930's Germany (and elsewhere, and elsewhen) through satirical mockery?

Think of the subjects of Amanda's songs "Missed Me", "Slide", "Oasis", and "Mandy Goes to Med School", to name just a few.  "Oasis" alone treats alcohol abuse, date rape, abortion, manipulation, betrayal, and denial (all in under two minutes).  Those are hardly the only examples of difficult subjects in her repertoire.  When in "Guitar Hero" the narrator says "Tie them up and feed them the sand -- ha! Nigga!", is her use of the n-word variant vile and unacceptable on the face of it -- i.e. should the song have never been written and performed -- or does it serve a greater satirical purpose by illuminating the vulgar slang used by gamers and soldiers alike to dehumanize one's virtual and real enemies?

The critics are welcome to say, they don't like this or that or that something is bad or wrong.  That's part of the conversation.  And granted, the original conception of Evelyn Evelyn seemed more screwball than satirical or purposeful, though the more recent E-E bio can be seen as a kind of a text-based cabaret number.  My point is, if you're the kind of person who sees Tom Lehrer's "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" as a political statement against animal rights, you're unlikely to find much of value in Amanda's songs -- or indeed, the entire cabaret tradition.

totally agree with you!!
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The Angel Raliel

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2010, 06:02:44 AM »

If art cannot be about the dark, forbidden, uncomfortable parts of being human....then we may as well stop all forms of self expression...Evelyn Evelyn are very much a part of traditional vaudeville/cabaret and music hall tradition....go look at the shows that were considered mainstream in edwardian society
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@raliel

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Re: the WHOLE story behind "Evelyn Evelyn"
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2010, 06:09:57 AM »

Amanda's art lies squarely within the cabaret tradition and is entirely appropriate in that context.

Cabaret as a genre provides a safe space for exploring touchy, edgy subjects by treating them humorously, satirically, or entertainingly, for the sake of illuminating the humanity at their core.  Like gossip, cabaret art is, at least in part, a social conversation to discuss communally essential truths, including where the boundaries are.

Think of the satirical cabaret show-within-a-show in the movie Cabaret.  The stage show and its songs depict poverty, hunger, greed, promiscuity, bisexuality, antiSemitism, Naziism, etc.   We gasp when the "bride" is revealed to be an ape, and then Jewish.  Is that depiction in the 1970's movie unacceptable on the face of it, due to its vile antiSemitism -- i.e. should the piece never have been written, performed, and filmed at all -- or does it serve an illuminating purpose by laying bare the antiSemitism of 1930's Germany (and elsewhere, and elsewhen) through satirical mockery?

Think of the subjects of Amanda's songs "Missed Me", "Slide", "Oasis", and "Mandy Goes to Med School", to name just a few.  "Oasis" alone treats alcohol abuse, date rape, abortion, manipulation, betrayal, and denial (all in under two minutes).  Those are hardly the only examples of difficult subjects in her repertoire.  When in "Guitar Hero" the narrator says "Tie them up and feed them the sand -- ha! Nigga!", is her use of the n-word variant vile and unacceptable on the face of it -- i.e. should the song have never been written and performed -- or does it serve a greater satirical purpose by illuminating the vulgar slang used by gamers and soldiers alike to dehumanize one's virtual and real enemies?

The critics are welcome to say, they don't like this or that or that something is bad or wrong.  That's part of the conversation.  And granted, the original conception of Evelyn Evelyn seemed more screwball than satirical or purposeful, though the more recent E-E bio can be seen as a kind of a text-based cabaret number.  My point is, if you're the kind of person who sees Tom Lehrer's "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" as a political statement against animal rights, you're unlikely to find much of value in Amanda's songs -- or indeed, the entire cabaret tradition.


*applauds*
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