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Author Topic: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...  (Read 5312 times)

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simon tongue

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Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« on: May 14, 2010, 10:50:39 AM »

I just watched the first episode in Derren Brown investigates (you can watch it here at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtlhjsiBEDw (might be UK only)) and again for me just showed what a complete load of hogwash it all is.

This episode focused on Joe Power who 'contacts' the dead and passes on information from them to their loved ones. It seemed quite clear it was a mix of cold reading and 'revealing' facts that they already knew. Well worth a watch though.

Anyway the point being does anyone here have any experience and actually believe in it? Also did anyone see the above episode?
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 11:24:46 AM »

I caught the last 25 minutes of it but it was enough to get the general idea.

I’ve recently been reintroduced to “Shirley Ghostman” via “LA LA Land” and there is disbelief of another kind with that guy. I can’t believe that some of the people he talks to are not in on it.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/Bb_yiYTsiNo" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/Bb_yiYTsiNo</a>
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CeeGBee

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2010, 11:44:37 AM »

Specific counter-examples do not by any means disprove the larger theory.


It's easy to find a whole lot of fakes and frauds, but I'm convinced that there
are legitimate [mediums, psychics, spiritualists, whatever]...  They're just a
bit harder to locate.
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Breschau

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 01:03:59 PM »

Most of the women at my work are firm believers, with several regularly paying money to go to one spiritualist/psychic/medium or another.

Although I don't 100% discount the possibility, I am thoroughly unconvinced - especially that any such ability would manifest in the way those who make a living from it suggest.  I actually find it pretty depressing to think that the afterlife is so dull and meaningless that spirits are just hanging around ready to provide family history on a moment's notice, so that their vague messages of how everything's fine will be seen as genuine.

Then there's the workshops on how to contact your guardian angel that occasionally get advertised on our internal webpages.  Because yeah, there's a guardian angel for each and every one of us, watching over us, but only willing or able to communicate and help us in our lives if we give some money to a self appointed expert who can teach us the proper techniques.  That's definitely how that would work.
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Half Mar

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 03:23:41 PM »

There's only one psychic medium guy who is convincing to me, and seems to be very honest and real, that's Derek Ogilvie (who has his own show here on tv).
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overratedtoejam

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2010, 03:53:30 PM »

i do "believe" in psychics. though, there are just as many (if not, more) fakes than real ones.

I actually find it pretty depressing to think that the afterlife is so dull and meaningless that spirits are just hanging around ready to provide family history on a moment's notice, so that their vague messages of how everything's fine will be seen as genuine.

that's a strange way to look at it. i don't think that spirits are just like "damn, its so boring here, when is somebody gonna ask me for advice?". i don't think us mere mortals would ever be able to understand how the afterlife works until we die, but i'm pretty sure that's not what they're doing up there. from what i've learned it seems that psychics use energy/feelings to gather data. i don't think that would necessarily mean that a certain ghost/being would have to be sitting next to the psychic telling them everything they want to know. maybe ghosts can even be in more than one place at the same time. i think that psychics are able to feel the presence of whomever needing to be contacted and sort through their feelings to try and gather advice to what their customer is asking for. in other words, i don't think that there's literal communication ("hello, how are you today?" "oh, i'm okay, its a bit hot here in heaven, but its a good day for the beach!")

but, i don't know..i'm not psychic O0

and i'm on pain killers from my wisdom teeth, so that might not have been as coherent as i wanted it to be haha.
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2010, 04:33:40 PM »

Just a general comment...

Knowledge of how easily human psychology can be exploited and the ease with which we can deceive ourselves should be enough to put anyone on guard when faced with a psychic. If psychics don't volunteer themselves to be subjects of rigorous scrutiny they are missing out on an opportunity to vindicate themselves and/or show us that there is something that we have missed about the world.

Of course as ever, we cannot rule it out entirely but that only puts it on the same level as many other unsubstantiated theories about the nature of existence (not forgetting the variations that each individual theory has). There needs to be something far more compelling about this particular theory to give me sufficient reason to integrate it with what I already know to be well accounted for.
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overratedtoejam

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2010, 04:42:20 PM »

Just a general comment...

Knowledge of how easily human psychology can be exploited and the ease with which we can deceive ourselves should be enough to put anyone on guard when faced with a psychic. If psychics don't volunteer themselves to be subjects of rigorous scrutiny they are missing out on an opportunity to vindicate themselves and/or show us that there is something that we have missed about the world.

Of course as ever, we cannot rule it out entirely but that only puts it on the same level as many other unsubstantiated theories about the nature of existence (not forgetting the variations that each individual theory has). There needs to be something far more compelling about this particular theory to give me sufficient reason to integrate it with what I already know to be well accounted for.


i agree. i think with anything you can't see with your own eyes, it's always best to be skeptical. though, i have seen my fair share of strange happenings which is why i tend to be more open to these kinds of things.
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Breschau

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2010, 09:34:48 AM »

i think that psychics are able to feel the presence of whomever needing to be contacted and sort through their feelings to try and gather advice to what their customer is asking for.
I'm not sure I'd believe the dead would have even any feelings to sense or sort through.  At least not in a sense that any of the living would be able to understand or interpret.  Mainly due to the lack of a physical brain and all the various chemicals etc that contribute towards emotion and feeling.  Even if it's not *just* the brain that determines emotion (i.e. allowing for some sort of spiritual aspect to emotions), there's no denying it definitely plays a very significant part in it (imbalances in brain chemistry, brain damage, degenerative diseases, drug use, etc, all can affect personality and emotions).  So taking that away, and then put the being in the context of a non-corporeal (and eternal?) afterlife and I don't think they'd be in a state that a living human - psychic or otherwise - could comprehend or interpret.  Nothing like sensing they're happy where they are, or that they don't blame the family member talking to the psychic, or anything along those lines.

Pure speculation of course, but I'm of the opinion that if there were an afterlife (and I'm inclined towards there not being one) that it'd be free of things like feelings, personality, identity, conscious thought, or any of the varied trivia (comparatively speaking) of the life that came before.

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Tiervexx

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2010, 06:16:46 PM »

Specific counter-examples do not by any means disprove the larger theory.

Contrary to popular belief it is not a theory until after there is evidence for it.

I would love for someone to give some convincing evidence for this rather than just saying they think it's out there.

All of the examples I've seen so far of psychics talking about the future or about people was just too generalized.
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CeeGBee

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 06:44:08 PM »

Specific counter-examples do not by any means disprove the larger theory.
Contrary to popular belief it is not a theory until after there is evidence for it.

I would love for someone to give some convincing evidence for this rather than just saying they think it's out there.

All of the examples I've seen so far of psychics talking about the future or about people was just too generalized.
What you consider "convincing" is entirely up to you, but you can't deny that there's a theory that
people, or some people, have some sort of perception beyond smell/sight/hearing/touch/taste.

For my own part, I accept that it may be possible, and there have been stories of that sort
(and as well documented as many now considered "factual") for as long as people have been telling
stories of any sort.

There are any number of perfectly rational "scientific" (which is to say in keeping with current
scientific knowledge) explanations for at least some of these occurrences, but I am not aware of
any argument that explains all "psychic" phenomena in all cases.

Heck, my mom and second brother can sit down with a deck of cards and play "what card am I looking at?"
and get 30 out of a 52 card deck.  I've known these people for 42 years and they're not signalling.  Is it a
big deal?  No, not really.  Is there a "scientific" explanation?  Probably not.
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 06:51:13 PM »

Another Derren Brown was on yesterday
“Derren Brown Investigates: The Man with X-Ray Eyes”
It’s about a psychic training program that might be spreading over Europe from Russia/ Ukraine. Its primary claim is that it can teach the blind to see via psychic means.

I’ve watched about 15mins on 4OD and caught the final 20 minutes last night on television). More interesting than I thought it would be but also stranger. At one point there was a matrix analogy, which might have been speculatively interesting, but then talk turned to diverting genital energy. Funnily enough this stage involves creating balls of energy and releasing the energy in a splash. Very Shirley Ghostman…
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CeeGBee

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2010, 07:29:09 PM »

....andohbytheway, lest anyone get the wrong idea....

While I do believe there is probably more to human perception than the five well-documented
senses, and that there's probably some truth to notions of ESP or such as that....

...if I see you on TV claiming any sort of "powers" or "phenomena", I'm going to assume that
you're a fraud.  (Yeah, I'm lookin' at you, Ghost Hunters...)
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2010, 07:38:08 PM »

(Yeah, I'm lookin' at you, Ghost Hunters...)

You truly are psychic! Next week...
"Derren Brown Investigates: The Ghosthunter" (seriously)

Heck, my mom and second brother can sit down with a deck of cards and play "what card am I looking at?"
and get 30 out of a 52 card deck.  I've known these people for 42 years and they're not signalling.  Is it a
big deal?  No, not really.  Is there a "scientific" explanation?  Probably not.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if a third party was introduced when your mom and second brother are card guessing. Loss of eye/facial contact and vocal communication would eliminate the possibility that they are just very good at understanding subtle expressiveness from each other.

I don’t think that people are necessarily being deceptive when they claim a psychic ability. Sometimes it is possible to know things without understanding why we know. They might just be very good at picking up cues from each other. There are many possibilities that once ruled out make the remaining possibilities very interesting.
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CeeGBee

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Re: Mediums, Psychics, Spiritualists etc etc...
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2010, 09:16:27 PM »

Heck, my mom and second brother can sit down with a deck of cards and play "what card am I looking at?"
and get 30 out of a 52 card deck.  I've known these people for 42 years and they're not signalling.  Is it a
big deal?  No, not really.  Is there a "scientific" explanation?  Probably not.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if a third party was introduced when your mom and second brother are card guessing. Loss of eye/facial contact and vocal communication would eliminate the possibility that they are just very good at understanding subtle expressiveness from each other.
They've done it with an opaque screen... srsly....
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