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[gargantuan]

Hope those of you in CA are calling your reps!

Discuss here.

Proposition 19, also known as the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010, is a California ballot proposition which will be on the November 2, 2010 California statewide ballot. It legalizes various marijuana-related activities, allows local governments to regulate these activities, permits local governments to impose and collect marijuana-related fees and taxes, and authorizes various criminal and civil penalties.[1] In March 2010 it qualified to be on the November statewide ballot.[2] Yes on 19 is the official advocacy group for the initiative.

As of September 2010[update], even if the proposition is passed, the sale of marijuana will remain illegal under federal law via the Controlled Substances Act

According to the State of California analysis, the bill will have the following effects.[6]
[edit] Legalization of personal marijuana-related activities

Persons age 21 and older:

* May possess up to 1 ounce (28 g) of marijuana for personal consumption.
* May use marijuana in a non-public place such as a residence or a public establishment licensed for on site marijuana consumption.
* May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet (2.3 m2) for personal use.

[edit] Local government regulation of commercial production and sale

* Local government may authorize the retail sale of up to 1 ounce of marijuana per transaction, and regulate the hours and location of the business.
* Local government may authorize larger amounts of marijuana for personal possession and cultivation, or for commercial cultivation, transportation, and sale.
* Allows for the transportation of marijuana from a licensed premises in one city or county to a licensed premises in another city or county, without regard to local laws of intermediate localities to the contrary.

[edit] Imposition and collection of taxes and fees

* Allows the collection of taxes specifically to allow local governments to raise revenue or to offset any costs associated with marijuana regulation.

[edit] Authorization of criminal and civil penalties

* Maintains existing laws against selling drugs to a minor and driving under the influence.
* Maintains an employer's right to address consumption of marijuana that affects an employee's job performance.
* Maintain existing laws against interstate or international transportation of marijuana.
* Any person who is licensed, permitted, or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone under the age of 21 results in them being banned from owning, operating, or being employed by a licensed marijuana establishment for one year.
* Any person who is licensed, permitted, or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone older than the age of 18 but younger than 21, shall be imprisoned in county jail for up to six months and fined up to $1,000 per offense.
* Any person who is licensed, permitted, or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone age 14 to 17, shall be imprisoned in state prison for a period of three to five years.
* Any person who is licensed, permitted, or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone under the age of 14, shall be imprisoned in state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years




DUUUUDE! It probably wont pass, (although it has about 50% suppport in polls.) But this is a huge step for USA. Rah rah rah for civilian rights!

[caddy]

Even if it did pass, you'd still have Federal laws. 

[CeeGBee]

Even if it did pass, you'd still have Federal laws. 

My first thought as well, but the road to changing that has to start somewhere (besides a bunch of
Congressmen who clearly smoke weed themselves), and why not a clear demonstration that a lot of
eligible voters recognize that the blanket ban is stupid?

[caddy]

Even if it did pass, you'd still have Federal laws. 

My first thought as well, but the road to changing that has to start somewhere (besides a bunch of
Congressmen who clearly smoke weed themselves), and why not a clear demonstration that a lot of
eligible voters recognize that the blanket ban is stupid?

I don't disagree, though I do believe that the day it becomes accepted as okay by the Federal laws, your prices are going to skyrocket from dime bags to quarter bags (and beyond) + tax.  The downside, that be it.  Though it will never happen that weed becomes legal Federally.  Not until the Christians are okay with abortion and cocaine, because according to them, it's still a "gateway drug".

[CeeGBee]

Even if it did pass, you'd still have Federal laws. 

My first thought as well, but the road to changing that has to start somewhere (besides a bunch of
Congressmen who clearly smoke weed themselves), and why not a clear demonstration that a lot of
eligible voters recognize that the blanket ban is stupid?

I don't disagree, though I do believe that the day it becomes accepted as okay by the Federal laws, your prices are going to skyrocket from dime bags to quarter bags (and beyond) + tax.  The downside, that be it.  Though it will never happen that weed becomes legal Federally.  Not until the Christians are okay with abortion and cocaine, because according to them, it's still a "gateway drug".

Current experience suggests otherwise -

In areas with medical-marijuana laws, the wholesale price of "aboveboard" cannabis
has dropped so much some growers are giving up entirely...  Who knew the secret
to stopping people who grow weed was to legalize it, so they have to make is as
just-plain-farmers...

"...In July, the nonpartisan RAND Drug Policy Research Center forecast that legalizing marijuana could send
prices plunging by as much as 90 percent. Lower prices could mean less tax revenue even as pot consumption
rose, the group said....

FULL ARTICLE FROM Associated Press

[caddy]

It's legalized, but is the government regulating the prices, or just allowing growers to sell their crops?

[CeeGBee]

It's legalized, but is the government regulating the prices, or just allowing growers to sell their crops?

At present, the only government price-control is the natural markup on out-of-state marijuana, still
actively prosecuted by Federal authorities.  Unfortunately for would-be sellers, local production
has skyrocketed as people find they can grow their own with relative ease - got a vegetable garden
or a few potted kitchen-herbs?  Why not put in a few pot plants?  Supply goes waaay up, demand
rises only slightly, the price plummets.

[J_Beck]

Even if it did pass, you'd still have Federal laws. 

My first thought as well, but the road to changing that has to start somewhere (besides a bunch of
Congressmen who clearly smoke weed themselves), and why not a clear demonstration that a lot of
eligible voters recognize that the blanket ban is stupid?

I don't disagree, though I do believe that the day it becomes accepted as okay by the Federal laws, your prices are going to skyrocket from dime bags to quarter bags (and beyond) + tax.  The downside, that be it.  Though it will never happen that weed becomes legal Federally.  Not until the Christians are okay with abortion and cocaine, because according to them, it's still a "gateway drug".

You need to remember the massive mark ups in illegal substances because each person in the chain from grower to street dealer is being payed many times the actual value for the risk.  Even if it had substantial taxes like cigarettes the benefits from mass production would make a much cheaper product.

As for federal laws the Obama administration has said it will go by individual state's laws so no more raiding of dispensaries.  Now the big question if hypothetically I was getting in the marijuana business is could I cover all my costs and turn a profit in just 2 years because otherwise it might not be possible if a big anti-drug President comes in.

[caddy]

As for federal laws the Obama administration has said it will go by individual state's laws so no more raiding of dispensaries.  Now the big question if hypothetically I was getting in the marijuana business is could I cover all my costs and turn a profit in just 2 years because otherwise it might not be possible if a big anti-drug President comes in.

I had no clue about that first part.  As for the last part, I somehow doubt we're going to have another Democratic president in 2012, personally, so it would probably be a bad business move. 

And I was just debating for lack of anything better to do.  Internets are boring.  Caddy is boring.  *huff*

[CeeGBee]

As for federal laws the Obama administration has said it will go by individual state's laws so no more raiding of dispensaries.  Now the big question if hypothetically I was getting in the marijuana business is could I cover all my costs and turn a profit in just 2 years because otherwise it might not be possible if a big anti-drug President comes in.

I had no clue about that first part.  As for the last part, I somehow doubt we're going to have another Democratic president in 2012, personally, so it would probably be a bad business move.

See, that's the brilliant part....

GOP President (potentially) gets to choose between "Law & Order" and "Pro-Business" with about 5 years
of successful business operations that expose the falsehood behind most of the anti-weed propaganda...

Gee, there are less pot-sellers killing each other, fewer people stealing to buy pot, and no dramatic spike
in kids-smoking-pot-then-progressing-instantly-to-heroin.....  Honest growers in a competitive marketplace
with minimal government intrusion, providing a commodity for consumers at market-price....

....and if I'm elected, I'm gonna shut it down, bring back the pot-related secondary crimes and violence.....

...Oh, and put a whole lot more people in prison for non-violent and/or victimless crimes, and pass the expense
right back to you, the taxpayers....

[J_Beck]

As for federal laws the Obama administration has said it will go by individual state's laws so no more raiding of dispensaries.  Now the big question if hypothetically I was getting in the marijuana business is could I cover all my costs and turn a profit in just 2 years because otherwise it might not be possible if a big anti-drug President comes in.

I had no clue about that first part.  As for the last part, I somehow doubt we're going to have another Democratic president in 2012, personally, so it would probably be a bad business move.

See, that's the brilliant part....

GOP President (potentially) gets to choose between "Law & Order" and "Pro-Business" with about 5 years
of successful business operations that expose the falsehood behind most of the anti-weed propaganda...

Gee, there are less pot-sellers killing each other, fewer people stealing to buy pot, and no dramatic spike
in kids-smoking-pot-then-progressing-instantly-to-heroin.....  Honest growers in a competitive marketplace
with minimal government intrusion, providing a commodity for consumers at market-price....

....and if I'm elected, I'm gonna shut it down, bring back the pot-related secondary crimes and violence.....

...Oh, and put a whole lot more people in prison for non-violent and/or victimless crimes, and pass the expense
right back to you, the taxpayers....

Here is the issue, only CA will have made it legal and that is a solidly Democratic state, will the GOP strong holds care about it?  And will swing states across the country say Ohio or Florida really care about a Presidents view on a CA law enough to vote against them?

[J_Beck]

As for federal laws the Obama administration has said it will go by individual state's laws so no more raiding of dispensaries.  Now the big question if hypothetically I was getting in the marijuana business is could I cover all my costs and turn a profit in just 2 years because otherwise it might not be possible if a big anti-drug President comes in.

I had no clue about that first part.  As for the last part, I somehow doubt we're going to have another Democratic president in 2012, personally, so it would probably be a bad business move. 

And I was just debating for lack of anything better to do.  Internets are boring.  Caddy is boring.  *huff*

Debating politics on another forum has killed countless hours for me so it works!

As to a Democratic president in 2012 there is a good shot, why?  Look at Christine O'Donnell.....the GOP right now is moving more to the right and they are the ones voting in the primaries so imagine a "Tea Party" candidate running against Obama, or even doing a 3rd party run.

Either way Obama is likely to win.

[caddy]

As for federal laws the Obama administration has said it will go by individual state's laws so no more raiding of dispensaries.  Now the big question if hypothetically I was getting in the marijuana business is could I cover all my costs and turn a profit in just 2 years because otherwise it might not be possible if a big anti-drug President comes in.

I had no clue about that first part.  As for the last part, I somehow doubt we're going to have another Democratic president in 2012, personally, so it would probably be a bad business move. 

And I was just debating for lack of anything better to do.  Internets are boring.  Caddy is boring.  *huff*

Debating politics on another forum has killed countless hours for me so it works!

As to a Democratic president in 2012 there is a good shot, why?  Look at Christine O'Donnell.....the GOP right now is moving more to the right and they are the ones voting in the primaries so imagine a "Tea Party" candidate running against Obama, or even doing a 3rd party run.

Either way Obama is likely to win.

Actually, that's a great point.  It seems that since Obama, these teabaggers have been out in full force, saying things most decent people wouldn't think to say.  Not only that, but they're getting support from the conservatives, and conservatives are proposing to do things at this point that do not fit with most of America's ideals.  I don't care how many crazy people you show on television waving a sign about how Obama is a Muslim from Instabul who practices black magick and used it to make a legal birth certificate...this isn't the majority.

But then you have things that Obama did like the healthcare bill that passed.  Yeah it was great, but some of the clauses I don't exactly agree with, unless they've changed (like being forced to have healthcare by 2014 was it?  Or else after a certain time you get penalized?), and I'm also preeetty sure most doctors at this point are going to stop accepting insurance due to the bill, because they're pricks.  I think the one thing all Americans liked was that he shut down G-Bay (did it stay shut down?), and that the rest of the world seems to be on our side now that he's in office.

I think that if we get somebody like Ron Paul running in 2012 (please god, no), they both might have a chance, because from what I've seen, people still have his damn sticker on their car, and he might tailor his insanities for ths next election so they don't seem so insane.  But if we get Palin running or a teabagger, I believe it'll be a landslide.  Just like Dubya won twice mostly due to the war effort, I believe, I think the nation won't be ready to experience yet another new president changing more things.

Maybe.  Could be wrong. 

[J_Beck]

But then you have things that Obama did like the healthcare bill that passed.  Yeah it was great, but some of the clauses I don't exactly agree with, unless they've changed (like being forced to have healthcare by 2014 was it?  Or else after a certain time you get penalized?), and I'm also preeetty sure most doctors at this point are going to stop accepting insurance due to the bill, because they're pricks.  I think the one thing all Americans liked was that he shut down G-Bay (did it stay shut down?), and that the rest of the world seems to be on our side now that he's in office.

We have it in MA, if you make under 32k a year your insurance will be dirt cheap (under 100/month) over that amount you will need to get a subsidized private plan, which can be had for 150-300 depending on the level of coverage (co pays etc.) you want.

As to doctors not accepting insurance they will, nothing changes for them.  Some can choose not to accept the expanded Medicaid but if you have health insurance now nothing will change.  And all major medical facilities as well as most smaller ones will accept the expanded Medicaid.

[Cheddars Cousin]

Git'mo is alive and kickin' but we don't talk about that.

What scares me is this

...why not a clear demonstration that a lot of eligible voters recognize that the blanket ban is stupid?

What are we going to do when the heating oil runs out and we have no blankets?  Just get stoned and forget about it?