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Author Topic: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services  (Read 3481 times)

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NikosGr

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Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« on: January 17, 2011, 04:52:57 AM »

I've been trying to keep my patience and complain in small portions just to get the anger out of my system, that has been piling up due to all the mishaps concerning merchindising and shipping services etc. But i really can't do this anymore. The tremendous admiration I have for Amanda and her art was the constant reason i kept on turning my back on all the problems, but i honestly don't want to do this anymore. Even though the merch and shipping services are irrelevant to this admiration, i regret to say that lately i find myself losing more and more faith to amanda's projects just because of these problems.

I respect what team chaos have been doing for years now, and I thank them for all their efforts. It's not their fault that these services fail more and more as the bundles and orders multiply. But clearly Beth and some volunteer elves are not enough. It's obvious that even the best efforts from this small group of people are not enough to deal with the weight of the shipping process.

Despite the lack of personnel though, it is the false promises that make things even worse. When you have my money since August 8th for the Radiohead Bundle it is ridiculous to send  me an e-mail to say that my order has been shipped on January 15th (the complain doesn't include the 1 month that the process was pushed back due to quality issues). I'm not a stock investor, i'm a merch buyer. You open a shop (post war trade) and even though it's fully functional you say, don't buy yet because we will be making special sales soon. You also say that first orders will ship on December 9th. so even though i had no money at the moment, i decided to spend food money, and NOT wait for the sales, so i ordered on the first day the site went live, JUST to have higher hopes of my order been shipped on December 9th. Then you completely ignore me as a buyer (even though my money was already in your account) and give priority to American orders that were placed even 3 weeks later than mine. And then you have the audacity to ask for my understanding when you say that my order will be shipped on January 18th. I'm sure I'm not alone in this one, and many people are facing similar or even worse problems. But it is to my understanding that in order to respect all customers, you should deal with orders on a first-come-first-served basis.

When others complained, you offered a refund for the cancelations. I don't want to cancel my order though, instead i would like to know the truth at all times. If someone had said to me back in August that I may have to wait for months before i receive my order, i wouldn't spend my excitement on the endless waiting and piling up of anger, i would cross it off my mind, so when i actually got the vinyl, i would be thrilled. I would like to be able to plan ahead on these things.

When the quality of the service drops to such low standards, it makes the prices of the orders look ridiculous. I have to spend 15 dollars just to cover the shipping costs of a cd from america to europe, when other sites do it with half the money and the quality of their service is even better. I know that a signed or hand made  item could cost anything, but items like regular cds, poster, shirts, etc when they're combined with their shipping costs could be of lower price!

I love when Amanda gives all these empowering speeches about how "WE CAN DO IT" or how "WE DID IT", but clearly i'm beginning to think that we DIDN'T. When we raised thousands of dollars in a night for the LOFNOTC shirts, I felt so thrilled. Ask me now that i had to give another 15 dollars to my local print store just so I could make a replica of the shirt, since mine got lost in the post, and i'd tell you i don't feel thrilled at all. Ironically i feel just a loser!

I'm begging you, please consider all these i mentioned with open mind and maybe see what changes can be done on your behalf, and even if you decide that nothing can be done about the prices, or the time schedules or the general quality of the services, PLEASE at least don't make false promises/give the wrong impressions.

Rock, Love & Respect,

Nikos

PS. i know that at times you may read too much anger into my post, but in the end it's not anger that pushed me to write this, but dissapointment. I tried to speak the truth without offending you and i hope you won't feel offended by it.
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mpage

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2011, 01:22:18 AM »

I share your frustration and disappointment. I paid for the download/Tshirt bundle of Ukulelehead in October 2010. My T-shirt hasn't arrived, and I don't know if it is lost or not sent out yet. I have attempted to email/tweet to get some clarification many times over the last 2 months with no reply. Even a reply to say it is on the way or been delayed would be good.

My devotion to Amanda has kept me hoping for an arrival in the post soon, but when I read your letter it resonated with me and am now writing this.

I would love to purchase a Down Under bundle, but won't as I have no faith that I will get what I pay for.

I have not lost hope my T-shirt will arrive- would love to wear it when I see Amanda perform in Australia, however I almost expect it will arrive after she leaves in March.
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Niels

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2011, 03:26:38 AM »

I think a lot of people share your frustration.
My order wasn't exactly the way I had asked, but it wasn't a huge problem so I didn't complain.
Still, it's another tiny disappointment to add to the pile.
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lentower

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2011, 04:04:19 PM »

I remember fellow fans posting about problems with
the third party firms that Amanda and Brian use in
the past to fulfill orders and ship them.

I remember at least two such firms in the four plus years,
I've been a fan.

It might help the newer fans,
if those of you who had order problems
with the old outside firms reminded us of them here.

Links to threads here or on one of the older boxes
would be adequate.
(e.g. http://www.theshadowbox.net/ddbb/
{I don't have the URLs handy for older than that})

astrozombie1971

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2011, 05:29:42 PM »

I've been trying to keep my patience and complain in small portions just to get the anger out of my system, that has been piling up due to all the mishaps concerning merchindising and shipping services etc. But i really can't do this anymore. The tremendous admiration I have for Amanda and her art was the constant reason i kept on turning my back on all the problems, but i honestly don't want to do this anymore. Even though the merch and shipping services are irrelevant to this admiration, i regret to say that lately i find myself losing more and more faith to amanda's projects just because of these problems.

I respect what team chaos have been doing for years now, and I thank them for all their efforts. It's not their fault that these services fail more and more as the bundles and orders multiply. But clearly Beth and some volunteer elves are not enough. It's obvious that even the best efforts from this small group of people are not enough to deal with the weight of the shipping process.

Despite the lack of personnel though, it is the false promises that make things even worse. When you have my money since August 8th for the Radiohead Bundle it is ridiculous to send  me an e-mail to say that my order has been shipped on January 15th (the complain doesn't include the 1 month that the process was pushed back due to quality issues). I'm not a stock investor, i'm a merch buyer. You open a shop (post war trade) and even though it's fully functional you say, don't buy yet because we will be making special sales soon. You also say that first orders will ship on December 9th. so even though i had no money at the moment, i decided to spend food money, and NOT wait for the sales, so i ordered on the first day the site went live, JUST to have higher hopes of my order been shipped on December 9th. Then you completely ignore me as a buyer (even though my money was already in your account) and give priority to American orders that were placed even 3 weeks later than mine. And then you have the audacity to ask for my understanding when you say that my order will be shipped on January 18th. I'm sure I'm not alone in this one, and many people are facing similar or even worse problems. But it is to my understanding that in order to respect all customers, you should deal with orders on a first-come-first-served basis.

When others complained, you offered a refund for the cancelations. I don't want to cancel my order though, instead i would like to know the truth at all times. If someone had said to me back in August that I may have to wait for months before i receive my order, i wouldn't spend my excitement on the endless waiting and piling up of anger, i would cross it off my mind, so when i actually got the vinyl, i would be thrilled. I would like to be able to plan ahead on these things.

When the quality of the service drops to such low standards, it makes the prices of the orders look ridiculous. I have to spend 15 dollars just to cover the shipping costs of a cd from america to europe, when other sites do it with half the money and the quality of their service is even better. I know that a signed or hand made  item could cost anything, but items like regular cds, poster, shirts, etc when they're combined with their shipping costs could be of lower price!

I love when Amanda gives all these empowering speeches about how "WE CAN DO IT" or how "WE DID IT", but clearly i'm beginning to think that we DIDN'T. When we raised thousands of dollars in a night for the LOFNOTC shirts, I felt so thrilled. Ask me now that i had to give another 15 dollars to my local print store just so I could make a replica of the shirt, since mine got lost in the post, and i'd tell you i don't feel thrilled at all. Ironically i feel just a loser!

I'm begging you, please consider all these i mentioned with open mind and maybe see what changes can be done on your behalf, and even if you decide that nothing can be done about the prices, or the time schedules or the general quality of the services, PLEASE at least don't make false promises/give the wrong impressions.

Rock, Love & Respect,

Nikos

PS. i know that at times you may read too much anger into my post, but in the end it's not anger that pushed me to write this, but dissapointment. I tried to speak the truth without offending you and i hope you won't feel offended by it.
I totally agree.I recieved an email telling me my Cabaret bundle was being sent today.I ordered it on the first day,Paid $45 for delivery and although I didnt expect it to arrive in the U.K by Christmas,for it to only just be being sent today is very dissapointing.Im still waiting for a clear answer about my Radiohead Kayla painted uke bundle I ordered on the first day it was released in ,JULY!.  One email in November said it was found at the post office and was on its way,today they tell me its being sent sometime this week.What the F@@%?.Im also beginning to wonder how the so called lost packages can be replaced so easily considering they contain supposed limited edition items.If they are sold out how can they be replaced so easily?.If you take the money from the people who are funding your adventures all over the globe,and you are earning pretty good money now lets be honest,the least you can do is give them what they have paid for.I know you want to keep it all small and D.I.Y,but it may be time to face the fact your fanbase has grown to a size your hard working volunteers and one paid staff member cant cope with,especially when you keep putting out package after package.Let them sort out all the issues with the existing customers before starting another project.I dont blame the merch team totally,they are doing the best they can,the bulk of the blame has to lay at the feet of, for the want of a better term,the boss,and that is Amanda.I always looked forward to the packages coming out,so I could buy them for the wife,who loves Amandas stuff.Im afraid when I finally recieve these two packages,I will not be purchasing anymore.Which is sad.
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insignifikunt

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2011, 10:14:06 PM »

I definitely agree that it's probably time Amanda actually hires more merch people rather than relying solely on Beth and her merch elves and I really hope that after the down under album amanda does take a break from releasing stuff to give beth etc a chance to fulfill ALL outstanding orders and correct any mistakes that have occurred.

Everything I have ever ordered from Amanda (not dresden dolls merch, never had an issue there) from WKAP (I know not their fault) until now I have had problems with, and I am still waiting for my red vinyl bundle, and I don't want to complain because I was regularly updated about it, and all the problems were resolved in time and they have always thrown in extra goodies as an apology, but I was disappointed that other projects were taken on before the issues some many people had with the UKE project were resolved and I do find it curious that some of the lost limited edition vinyls are able to be replaced...

 
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beth of all trades

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2011, 12:07:03 AM »

Y'all are free to feel however you want about whether or not the current system is working, but I also wish you would give it a chance.  I took over merch full-time at the end of November.  It's now January and since December 13th we've gotten 1300+ holiday orders and 500+ Ukulelehead orders (red & orange, but not ALL of each) on their way to the people who ordered them.  Rachel has been replying to everyone who emails merch@amandapalmer.net within a couple of business days, which is about the same lag time as "real" companies--- and usually she's able to respond MUCH sooner.  The fact is, in the vast majority of cases it IS working, and for the other small percentage of people we're working hard to fix it.

I didn't decide to respond to this post to defend what we're doing, because I know I absolutely hate when people get all butthurt online when their companies/behaviors/blogs/etc are criticized, but I do need to respond to this:

... I do find it curious that some of the lost limited edition vinyls are able to be replaced...

Im also beginning to wonder how the so called lost packages can be replaced so easily considering they contain supposed limited edition items.If they are sold out how can they be replaced so easily?

We did not put 1000 red vinyls up for sale.  With something like a limited-edition vinyl, we would NEVER make all of them available for sale, because sometimes things get lost in the mail, or damaged, or someone who worked on the record or its promotion might want one.  We also keep a handful of copies for the archive. 

astrozombie, our policy has been that if someone's package was mailed (as yours was, in November when Sean retrieved it from the post-office), and it did not arrive, we refund their money, because while we do have some red vinyl leftover, we don't have an unlimited supply.  I made an exception to that policy for you because of all the problems you'd already had with getting it, and because I knew you are a longtime supporter of the band. 

(Also: there should be an email in your inbox from Rachel explaining that the package that was sent contained your replacement #Ukulelehead merch as well.  It's all coming in one big box.)

Our experience with #Ukulelehead & the holiday fulfillment has changed a lot of how we're doing things:  there's no vinyl in the Down Under packages, we've clarified our shipping policies on the site, and we're setting up a solid, workable organizational system for fulfillment.

You may be right.  The AFP merch empire may be too big for this kind of DIY. But honestly?  Fixing mistakes WE made rather than mistakes some huge company made (and that we paid them a hefty percentage not to make) is a relief.  I wanted to take over merch because then if shit got fucked up, I wouldn't be begging forgiveness from customers while the giant corporation that made the errors laughed all the way to the bank (**coughWKAPpreordercoughcouch**). 

Let them sort out all the issues with the existing customers before starting another project.I dont blame the merch team totally,they are doing the best they can,the bulk of the blame has to lay at the feet of, for the want of a better term,the boss,and that is Amanda.

I won't disagree with you on that one.  I'd love to have time to make sure all the previous orders are sorted out, and to have a breather in between projects, and to pay an actual staff.  But as much as I'm the ringmaster of this show, it ain't my circus, and those decisions aren't mine to make. 



I remember fellow fans posting about problems with
the third party firms that Amanda and Brian use in
the past to fulfill orders and ship them.

I remember at least two such firms in the four plus years,
I've been a fan.

It might help the newer fans,
if those of you who had order problems
with the old outside firms reminded us of them here.

Thanks for the perspective, Len.  I think there are probably a fair amount of newer fans around who weren't around to see that the other system came with its own drawbacks. 
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faninor

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2011, 02:21:32 AM »

I've only ordered the Radiohead vinyl through you but I got it quick and it was clearly packed with care. O0
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astrozombie1971

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2011, 05:03:42 AM »

Recieved clarification on my bundles and they are being sent together.Hurray!! Just hope I can get the box into the house.Thanks also for answering the issue with the vinyl numbers,I assumed when the site said sold out,it meant the full 1000 copies.This appears not to be the case.I have to say the email responses to my questions have been responded to very quickly over the past two days.They havent been in the past few months but this seems to have been rectified, hope this continues as its the not knowing whats happening that causes the upset and frustration.Hope you continue to iron out the issues you have in creating a smooth running merch biz,I do hope you can pull it off and do well. Cheers.
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insignifikunt

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2011, 06:20:04 AM »


We did not put 1000 red vinyls up for sale.  With something like a limited-edition vinyl, we would NEVER make all of them available for sale, because sometimes things get lost in the mail, or damaged, or someone who worked on the record or its promotion might want one.  We also keep a handful of copies for the archive.  

makes total sense, thanks for the clarification

You may be right.  The AFP merch empire may be too big for this kind of DIY. But honestly?  Fixing mistakes WE made rather than mistakes some huge company made (and that we paid them a hefty percentage not to make) is a relief.  I wanted to take over merch because then if shit got fucked up, I wouldn't be begging forgiveness from customers while the giant corporation that made the errors laughed all the way to the bank (**coughWKAPpreordercoughcouch**).  

also makes total sense, i agree that the ways things are now are much better - i do think you guys are doing a great job and that the problems are miniscule compared to how many happy customers there were with no problems. i just get frustrated that i am still waiting on something ordered in july knowing that other projects have since been started before you really had a chance to completely fulfill the UKE project. i know you are definitely going the extra mile with this and that you have more than made up for the fact that i, and others are still waiting, it just feels to me that no one really has a chance to recover (us from spending large amounts of money if we choose to & you guys from actually having to run it all) before the next big project starts.

i feel like the bundles kind of lose their value or significance when another one is on offer within months. there were 2 big record bundle releases last year and then all the new post war trade/christmas stuff and within a month the oz album. I mean there are only so many posters, stickers, buttons, tshirts people can buy before they just aren't exciting anymore. I know no one is forced into buying them but i was absolutely blown away with the WKAP bundle, i still think it is the best merch buying decision i've ever made and so i bought a pricey evelyn evelyn bundle as well and was really happy with it also. then the uke one came out and then the xmas ones and now the oz ones... i only couldn't afford to buy a big uke bundle and i didnt buy any of the xmas stuff. now i am trying to organise with a bunch of other people to buy the $5k bundle solely for the backyard gig because a backyard gig actually feels exciting but the merch not so much. i think some of the stuff is cool, but again, there are only so many tshirts, buttons, stickers etc that people can buy.   
 



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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2011, 07:03:32 AM »

i've been staying the hell out of the pwt discussions because i really have nothing to say (or, no leg to stand on), not having made any orders, but i have a few things to point out that i've noticed, and some completely unsolicited advice, and i had no way of saying these things without sounding like a critical asshole.  but i can't help myself, so i will go ahead and risk it, because i can't sleep and i'm a little bitter about that.

the bottom line is, without a paid staff working for this online business, there is no way to hammer out mistakes and there is no room--or motivation-- for improvement.  you can't yell at a volunteer, nor can you reasonably fire them.  and they have no reason to assure quality work because they're NOT getting paid, they're only doing it because OMG they love amanda.  or whatever, who knows why anyone does anything for free.  i'm not knocking the amount of product that might have been moved or even the good job they have done when they have done a good job, i'm just saying it is not going to yield consistent results across the board, and there is no way to improve on what you are already getting for free.  no employee motivation.  i'm willing to bet for every one good volunteer there are like three who just....wandered off.  i'm also willing to bet as the complaining gets more acidic, it will affect their motivation as well, because they will feel like they are wasting their time on ingrates, and why shouldn't they feel that way.

i'll be the first to say, i am a terrible organizer.  if i ran pwt, no one would get any of their merch, and it would turn out to be lady gaga stickers or q-tips or something stupid and insane if they did.  i work a lot better when the customer is there in front of me and i can hold their attention while i am frisking them for cash.  so all i know is what's worked for me in business, which details i had to learn as i went along.  which means i am giving advice straight out of my ass, for what it is worth.  the first thing i learned is, usps is shit and unuseable.  i wouldn't trust them with a letter to my grandmother.  fedex and ups might not be much better, but they are not federal, they are corporations, and as such, have a sense of customer service that federal institutions have lacked for at least my lifetime.  i've never lost a package that's been shipped by fedex or ups, and it is worth the extra money to know that someone will find your shit if you ask them to, firmly.  sometimes with minimal screaming, just to motivate them.  the worst problem i have ever has with ups is the drivers who could not understand that my shops did not under any circumstances open before noon.  merchwise, i'll sell whatever isn't nailed down.  i've sold tee shirts for twenty years.  i would never charge over twenty bucks for a tee shirt that didn't cost between 12 and 15 bucks to make.  i would make it up by selling a glass pipe i got for three bucks for a hundred fifty.  that's right yall.  those expensive-ass double-blown glass pipes cost your head shop like THREE BUCKS.  you don't even want to know the markup on body jewelry.  ok i'll tell you.  most pieces cost like forty cents.  thats right, your ten dollar tongue ring cost forty cents...unless we bought it by the pound, that is.  i don't even know what percentage that markup is.  gold jewelry?  maybe four dollars, but you will pay well over a hundred.  stores like spencer's pay even less for body jewelry (and sometimes charge more), but their product is shit.

and i know operating on a minimal, or no budget is nigh impossible.  when you don't have the money to spend on the things you need, sometimes you just have to go ahead and spend it anyway.  i have YET to make a personal profit on a business that i didn't have to inject right back into the business to keep it afloat; the only money i have made off myself is money i have made, myself.  this point of view doesn't really mean anything other than i can't really see where amanda gets a whole lot of profit out of this at all, honestly.  which makes the fact that there IS a pwt pretty actually awesome in the first place, because such a big headache for not much or no profit is a pretty cool thing to do for one's fans.  if that is indeed the case.

from out here on the sidelines, it's got every appearance of trying to make as much money possible without spending any.  this may not be the case, i'm just saying, that is what things appear to be.  which is of course another concept i am very familiar with.  but when you launch almost any business, instant profit is almost going to be unheard of.  the magic of a zillion-dollar tee shirt twitter frenzy will not work every time; in fact as awesome as that was, i would be surprised if it ever works again.  i cannot think of a way to sound less like an asshole, but also could not mean to be an asshole less, when i point out using volunteers and the cheapest service available isn't going to win many points in the customer service department.




edit:  i'm sure i seem overly pessimistic in light of the small percentage of errors vs the large amount of successes, but it has been my experience that one unhappy customer equals five, after they get done bitching.  again, i dont mean to be a jerk, i'm just speaking from my point of view as a salesperson.

another edit:  and i can't even begin to imagine what a pain in the ass those bundles are to assemble and ship.  i've sold tattoo and body piercing kits that burned my ass because it was assembled from things i had to buy individually or have made, and sold for one price.  so i am completely sympathetic to whomever puts those things together, and also to whomever counts them and has to decide hat to charge for them.
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mpage

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2011, 07:43:06 AM »

Following my reply to the initial post, I discovered the merch@amandapalmer.net email, and promptly had a friendly reply from Rachel. I am satisfied with the response and wonder if I jumped the gun by contributing to the angst about this issue.

Had I used this email in the first instance rather than repeatedly used the 'contact' link on the website ( which did not get forwarded to the correct people) I doubt I would have been as frustrated.

I am now looking forward to receiving my order, and thank those who are clearly working very hard to clear the backlog.
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AlwaysATourist

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2011, 02:26:47 PM »

So, out of curiousty, shoud Ukulelehead order issues be sent to PWT, or someone else?
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N.U.

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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2011, 02:37:21 PM »

Would it be silly to devise some sort of overseas "staging areas" for our European and Aussie friends? Not gobs, as that would require way too much overhead, but it would provide a stopgap for customs delays, etc.
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Re: Open Letter to Amanda and Team Chaos, concerning poor services
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2011, 03:06:27 PM »

Would it be silly to devise some sort of overseas "staging areas" for our European and Aussie friends? Not gobs, as that would require way too much overhead, but it would provide a stopgap for customs delays, etc.

well, it appears that amanda has an OZ label to handle OZ stuff (hose recent words from her wasn't all that clear about just what that label was doing)

these  arrangements can lead to more problems than they cure.
not as easy as it appears at first glance

i'm sure amanda and team 'chaos/PWT' will continue to look for the best and simplest ways to get merch to all of us, worldwide
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