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[theseeker]

So, for those of you who don't know, the earthquake in Japan caused a tsunami, which damaged many things (homes, buildings, factories, the coastline) has also been causing issues with nuclear power plants (specifically their cooling systems). I thought we should make a thread about it, where we can talk about updates, disaster relief (and what places to donate to), and possible lasting effects of the potential meltdown, as well as the effects that the disaster will have on the world. Do you think that the events worldwide these past couple weeks will lead to a greater number of safety precautions? Will Canadian nuclear power plants be shut down? Should other countries seal the nuclear power plant before more harmful things occur? Also, this won't affect gay marriage, will it? Sorry, it's a weird thing to say... But it seriously might. GRGSFD.

My thoughts: I think that all areas experiencing aftershocks should be evacuated. Supplies and power are running short, and having a bunch of panicing people around, endangered by aftershocks is a bad idea. Search and rescue teams should be sent out, and I think that other countries should provide aid in making these teams, because the survivors should not have to sift through rubble after the trauma, especially because they haven't been trained in finding people.

On the nuclear power plant: at the start of Chernobyl, there was much bullshitting. Foreign nations were told that there were some minor complications but that everything was going well. It wasn't until much later that the entire world was alerted to the disaster. Japanese officials have already shared that there may be a meltdown and have already evacuated residents near the plant. When the situation gets more serious (it's very likely that it already has) everything will need to be contained, and it has to happen quickly, so material won't contaminate everything. I really hope they'll just come out and say when they need assistance containing the plant; our enviornment is fucked but nuclear debris is not a nice way to go.

[Pope Totalfrog]

So, for those of you who don't know, the earthquake in Japan caused a tsunami, which damaged many things (homes, buildings, factories, the coastline) has also been causing issues with nuclear power plants (specifically their cooling systems). I thought we should make a thread about it, where we can talk about updates, disaster relief (and what places to donate to), and possible lasting effects of the potential meltdown, as well as the effects that the disaster will have on the world. Do you think that the events worldwide these past couple weeks will lead to a greater number of safety precautions? Will Canadian nuclear power plants be shut down? Should other countries seal the nuclear power plant before more harmful things occur? Also, this won't affect gay marriage, will it? Sorry, it's a weird thing to say... But it seriously might. GRGSFD.

My thoughts: I think that all areas experiencing aftershocks should be evacuated. Supplies and power are running short, and having a bunch of panicing people around, endangered by aftershocks is a bad idea. Search and rescue teams should be sent out, and I think that other countries should provide aid in making these teams, because the survivors should not have to sift through rubble after the trauma, especially because they haven't been trained in finding people.

On the nuclear power plant: at the start of Chernobyl, there was much bullshitting. Foreign nations were told that there were some minor complications but that everything was going well. It wasn't until much later that the entire world was alerted to the disaster. Japanese officials have already shared that there may be a meltdown and have already evacuated residents near the plant. When the situation gets more serious (it's very likely that it already has) everything will need to be contained, and it has to happen quickly, so material won't contaminate everything. I really hope they'll just come out and say when they need assistance containing the plant; our enviornment is fucked but nuclear debris is not a nice way to go.

You do realise that the aftershocks are affecting most of the country? Where are they supposed to go? The power issue is also affecting the whole country.

Search and rescue teams are being sent from other countries. Japan has some of the most skilled search and rescue teams on the planet. Waiting for foreign help would be pretty ridiculous when they are there and they do know what to do. They have earthquake preparedness day in Japan. They run drills and everyone in the country trains for this kind of event every year. 

The plants in Japan are nothing like Chernobyl. The situation isn't good but it isn't anything like that. They already have accepted assistance from America but there isn't really a lot anyone can do. If the plants do meltdown (and they think a couple already have) then as long as the reactor cores are contained quickly then the only environmental damage will be in the immediate area.

Why would they shut down Canadian power plants?  

[CeeGBee]

A couple quick thoughts:
Aftershocks will be felt throughout the region, so unless you're planning to evacuate the
entire Japanese archipelago, it won't work.  Also, Japanese architecture is as close to
earthquake-safe as you'll find anywhere....  as long as it isn't asked to soak up a 9.0......


At Chernobyl, the Russians had no one to blame but poor design and inadequate maintenance,
so they tried to downplay the severity of the problem.  In Japan, they've just had an earthquake
of historical proportion, and while the power plants in question weren't immediately destroyed
or 'cracked open' by the spectacular forces applied to them, they did suffer damage that has
led to much more severe secondary issues.  There's no shame in that, and there may be some
good to come from prompt action, so they're willing to work with anyone who can help.

[theseeker]

Ugh can't quote, my computer will bother me. I was actually suggesting that the whole region be evacuated. By doing this however, there would be a lot of people left behind, so search and rescue teams should remain to find more people, and more should be sent in so that the teams can be as effective as possible. People were saying that the aftershocks are just as terrifying as the initial disaster because of their scale, and further issues could arise.

The meltdowns that may occur in Japan could have a far more severe impact on the entire ecosystem than Chernobyl's did. Some of the plants are right on the shore, and nuclear matter will be spread everywhere. The situation has been downplayed; at first, officials from Japan denied anything occuring, and despite their containment systems in the case of the meltdown (which are their responsibility), people near the plants have been evacuated. It's not just containing the reactors, a large portion of the land will probably have to be covered in cement, but the materials will still get into the sea. They're downplaying the situation in hopes that they can control it before it turns into an issue too severe to be dealt with properly (by anyone). Also, Cherbobyl's cause could have been human error, though there were many outdated items being used, and the lack of information regarding radiation that fire fighters had... ug. 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/953132--japan-meltdown-fears-draw-closer-look-at-nuclear-power-safety It's not just Canada, of course. Everyone's freaking. And there are a couple power plants in California in high-risk zones that are being talked about. Everyone's re-evaluating nuclear energy.

[The Angel Raliel]

the Japan cores are not anything like Cernobyls and thus are highly unlikely to explode..the explosions are hydrogen/oxygen explosions from superheated water and not the core.... the radiation contamination is from secondary isotopes (such as iodine) that are a by product of the nulear reaction and not the really bad stuff from the actual core

[theseeker]

Ei, sorry for being freaked out about it. There seems to be a fairly serious thing happening, and explosion or not, it's still dangerous.

[CeeGBee]

Well it IS dangerous, but not imminent-radioactive-mushroom-clouds-and-global-extermination dangerous...

The explosions we've seen HAVE released some radioactive material into the atmosphere,
but not much...  not that you'd wanna breathe the clouds of steam released there...


...and so far none of the radioactive fuel itself has escaped (uranium and plutonium), but
what of some of it does leak?

[Blue Canary]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fallout.asp

[Pope Totalfrog]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fallout.asp

That map is insane. Just insane.

[Captain Oblivious]

http://www.benlambert.co.uk/japan/

[CeeGBee]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fallout.asp

That map is insane. Just insane.

That map is also almost totally irrelevant to the actual situation at hand, as "full meltdown",
meaning escape of the radioactive fuel itself, is very unlikely in this case.

[Pope Totalfrog]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fallout.asp

That map is insane. Just insane.

That map is also almost totally irrelevant to the actual situation at hand, as "full meltdown",
meaning escape of the radioactive fuel itself, is very unlikely in this case.

Even if full meltdown occurred the consequences wouldn't be as dire as that map predicts. It is a bad, naughty map.

[CeeGBee]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/fallout.asp

That map is insane. Just insane.

That map is also almost totally irrelevant to the actual situation at hand, as "full meltdown",
meaning escape of the radioactive fuel itself, is very unlikely in this case.

Even if full meltdown occurred the consequences wouldn't be as dire as that map predicts. It is a bad, naughty map.

I dunno....  I don't like the prospect of breathing really-radioactive air.  There's lots of barfing,
diarrhea, and oh yeah, dying....  Oh well, as long as it stays west of the Rocky Mountains.

Anybody notice that the head of the IAEA is Japanese these days?  Coincidence?

[theseeker]

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/14/explosion-heard-at-japan-nuclear-plant/

Okay, not Chernobyl-scale. Doesn't mean I can't feel bad for the people potentially affected.

[lentower]

A couple quick thoughts:
Aftershocks will be felt throughout the region, so unless you're planning to evacuate the
entire Japanese archipelago, it won't work.  Also, Japanese architecture is as close to
earthquake-safe as you'll find anywhere....  as long as it isn't asked to soak up a 9.0......

At Chernobyl, the Russians had no one to blame but poor design and inadequate maintenance,
so they tried to downplay the severity of the problem.  In Japan, they've just had an earthquake
of historical proportion, and while the power plants in question weren't immediately destroyed
or 'cracked open' by the spectacular forces applied to them, they did suffer damage that has
led to much more severe secondary issues.  There's no shame in that, and there may be some
good to come from prompt action, so they're willing to work with anyone who can help.

The Japanese should feel a lot of shame here.

There have been earthquakes of this size and perhaps larger in recorded Japanese history.
Because seismographs weren't invented yet, an exact number can't be assigned.
But the descriptions of the damage puts them in the neighborhood of this quake,
perhaps a little less intense, perhaps a little more intense.

Ditto for tsunamis in Japan.  There it's easier to say there have been larger ones.
How high the waves and mud flows went are recorded.

Nuclear is the most dangerous technology humans have made so far.
(Bio-tech is likely to succeed it.)

Nuclear plants should be designed to survive the worst disaster where they are located.
Not the most likely.

The plants in California are better designed and safer than those failing in Japan,
But they have not been designed for the worst earthquakes that occurs there.

Granted that shareholder profit, professionals that move between regulators and industry,
and the other problems that greed and ambition cause, I doubt we will ever design
nuclear power plants to be safe for the worst natural disasters.

Note that the organization with the best safety record with nuclear reactors does not have a perfect one.
The US Navy.  
The money they spend is beyond what industry can afford to spend for nuclear reactors.

Oh, the nuclear industry in the US wasn't, until Congress passed a limit on liability per plant.
It's small compared to the risk.  Yet another federal 'bailout' waiting to happen.