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[imaginary friend]

looks like there's another new album coming. it's going to be written and recorded (or maybe just recorded?) in 8 hours.

check your e-mail for the real info.

#@!

[slyvia k]

looks like there's another new album coming. it's going to be written and recorded (or maybe just recorded?) in 8 hours.

check your e-mail for the real info.

#@!

lol i wanted to comment on it but eh, i mean, same old same zero effort thing she's going to invent ridiculous 5000$ bundles for.

[imaginary friend]

i just hope the songs are good.
 i haven't liked anything since WKAP.

#@!

[slyvia k]

i also happen to like polished songs... so i mean, in 8 hours... not sure sound quality is going to be tops. (i loathe live albums and such...)

[buttercup.]

I really like rough tracks, though I really doubt with who is involved it's going to be very rough at all. I'm hoping the constraint instills some creative genius.

[insignifikunt]

looks like there's another new album coming. it's going to be written and recorded (or maybe just recorded?) in 8 hours.

check your e-mail for the real info.

#@!

lol i wanted to comment on it but eh, i mean, same old same zero effort thing she's going to invent ridiculous 5000$ bundles for.

zero effort? so writing and recording an album with 3 other artists in 8 hours is zero effort?

[Mark!]

i hope the songs aren't jokey

[imaginary friend]

i hope the songs aren't jokey

that's what I'm afraid of.

#@!

[overratedtoejam]

looks like there's another new album coming. it's going to be written and recorded (or maybe just recorded?) in 8 hours.

check your e-mail for the real info.

#@!

lol i wanted to comment on it but eh, i mean, same old same zero effort thing she's going to invent ridiculous 5000$ bundles for.

zero effort? so writing and recording an album with 3 other artists in 8 hours is zero effort?

of course there's some effort involved, but where's a good solid album? amanda's filled the past few years with half ass releases and weird bundles. personally, i would like an album that has had time to brew and grow into something great like WKAP. enough of this lollygagging.

[theseeker]

>:c

[CeeGBee]

looks like there's another new album coming. it's going to be written and recorded (or maybe just recorded?) in 8 hours.

check your e-mail for the real info.

#@!

lol i wanted to comment on it but eh, i mean, same old same zero effort thing she's going to invent ridiculous 5000$ bundles for.

zero effort? so writing and recording an album with 3 other artists in 8 hours is zero effort?

While I do think Sylvia might have been engaging in a bit of hyperbole....


Yeah, writing and recording an album with three other artists in eight hours [pause, catch breath]...
...doesn't compare terribly well to writing and recording an album with three other artists in, say 8 weeks...

Sure, there's the unrefined raw creative intangible that can only come from brainstorming and short deadlines....
...but there's also the lack of craftsmanship that comes from not having time to refine ideas through extended
cooperative process, or do the technical detail work that produces a technically-sound work.

It's a stunt, and it's gotten to the point that it's just another stunt.  
I mean, I'll be in line (although not the first in line) to buy if, by some chance, the conjunction of so many creative
minds actually yields something that is, on its own merit, noteworthy...  but I'm no longer excited simply by the notion
of Amanda doing something (-else) wacky and off-the-cuff.

 

(And Amanda, if you're reading, you're in good company - I've never been terribly impressed by most of the crap that Picasso scribbled on dinner-napkins either.)

[Edit: reading back over that, it sounded a lot bitchier than I intended...  I'll be happier when
Amanda takes the time to create a fully-crafted song/EP/album, but there's nothing wrong with
having fun and doing improv/"ninja"/shits&grins projects until she's ready to spend a lot of time
and effort on something more involved... particularly for charitable causes as she's been doing.
My apologies for the tone.]

[Niels]

This is not exciting. at all.
I guess someone will tell me when she makes a real album again.

edit: and maybe this thread should be renamed to "exciting and innovative project of the week"

[citizenoftheplanet]

It's not really made clear in the email, are they going to be making a record which is then going to be produced onto actual CDs available to buy, or will it just be like a download through the conference website sort of thing?

[RiverVox]

The goal is to have album up on Bandcamp 10 hours after they finish. Proceeds will go to Berklee's nonprofit youth education program. This project is about the potential of technology in the creation, collaboration and distribution of music. Here is what Ben Folds has to say in this article http://www.pollstar.com/blogs/news/archive/2011/04/11/763095.aspx

“Digital technology allows singers who can’t sing and musicians who look better than they play to sing and play in tune and in time,” Folds said in a statement. “At the same time, it empowers the musicians to distribute music without a middle man and directly to an audience within moments of its creation. It even allows two-way communication during the process so that the audience might collaborate to some extent or be present in some way – like live music.”

This is a fun project that will benefit a good cause and stretch the boundaries of the music industry.  We are used to Amanda's way of making music but this might reach a bigger audience, because of Ben and Damian.

This will probably not result in another Ampersand, but to paraphrase Neil Gaiman: Amanda Palmer is not your bitch.

[imaginary friend]

This will probably not result in another Ampersand, but to paraphrase Neil Gaiman: Amanda Palmer is not your bitch.

two-way street.

#@!

[overratedtoejam]

This will probably not result in another Ampersand, but to paraphrase Neil Gaiman: Amanda Palmer is not your bitch.

i don't think anybody's saying that amanda is our bitch. we're just expressing our feelings about this and obviously it's her career and she can do whatever she pleases with it. i'm just disappointed that she's spending all this time on projects that don't seem very whole hearted. i do think this project is a nice idea, but honestly all of these releases upon releases are completely draining my interest in afp. i haven't been excited at all about anything she's done recently and that's sad. i used to count the days until the release of her work and now it's "should i download this? hmm, i guess so."

[RiverVox]

That's an interesting point and a good one to think about for this kind of distribution. How much outreach/product is too much? How does this play into all the channels? Communications is about messaging the right things to the right audience at the right time. How far into the sausage factory do we want to go? Would you want to watch a band's rehearsals? Listen to the masters and watch the mixing process? Vote on the sound (more cowbell!) and album cover? Or do you just want the final perfect product? I don't know, but I think we're finding that out!

[Agonistes]

i actually don't see anything wrong at all with an experimental-type album with the proceeds slated for charity.  that doesn't seem like a grab for money, per se.  i've seen a lot of art programs in the past few years slated towards artistic education of young people (the schools are certainly not doing it), and i am way all about that.  how could i not be?

fanwise, i want another wkap.  how could i not?

i also understand that there will never, actually, be 'another wkap,' because it doesn't work that way.  there will be other stuff, with different sources and feelings.  but, i just can't help wanting something that moves me that profoundly, again, from the same source.  i do miss it.

[My Two Innings]

I continue to be hugely entertained by the manic, tongue-in-cheek ninja antics and concurrent blogging/twittering.  It's not like she's abandoned traditional music-making alotogether; it's been only five months since we saw the Dresden Dolls on tour, for pete's sake.  I'm not as big a fan of her uke sound, personally, but so what.  I do hope she considers making a studio album now and then, because I enjoy her piano rock and imaginative lyrics.  Cheers to all -- including those who disagree!

[Pope Totalfrog]

I am in a slightly better mood now.

I have no problem with an artist dong a project like this - for charity or profit. (I am actually interested to hear what comes out of it.)

The main problem I have is the sheer amount of stuff that has been released lately, some of it hasn't been great and I wonder if it is an artist just going crazy and putting everything out there (which is fine and understandable after being constrained by a label for so long) or if it is motivated more by increasing cash flow. Sometimes I even wonder if it is just an experiment to see what she can get people to fork over cash for. 

Maybe everything will settle down a bit now and things will get better. I could just do with a bit more music and a few less gimmicks.

[overratedtoejam]

what she said^

[Andy Pants]

i hope the songs aren't jokey

that's what I'm afraid of.

#@!

Well, she has the material. I'm still waiting to hear the bed song all stylishly produced and shit. I think the point of Down Under was to take a breather from the seriousness of WKAP, but don't despair, I'm sure she has more miserable angsty songs about heratache and other depressing things still to come.

Also in response to other comments. I prefer the artists I like to be prolific rather than perfectionists who hardly release anything, that way I can listen to what I like and there'll probably be more of it.

That's my two cents anyway.

[Niels]

I think the point of Down Under was to take a breather from the seriousness of WKAP

yes, and I don't think anyone has a problem with taking a break from the seriousness, but with Evelyn Evelyn, the Radiohead thing, Down Under, and now this... I think for a lot of people it's become too much break and not enough seriousness.

I don't think anyone is saying "Amanda should do this" or "Amanda has to listen to us" but people are expressing what they want to hear, and more importantly, what they want to pay for. I haven't pay for anything after WKAP, because it simply doesn't interest me. I downloaded one song from Down Under, and that's Australia, and I love that song even though the 30 seconds of talking before the actual song are freaking annoying.

She's experimenting on her fans. She's trying to see how a minimal amount of effort can lead to the biggest amount of money. And because a lot of ridiculous fans will pay for anything, she's getting away with it. But I really don't feel like taking part in this.

I'll listen to the songs, and if any of them are interesting enough I might buy or download one.

[RiverVox]

I understand the frustration and disappointment that some of you are feeling. It's something that AFP should take seriously and respond to. Remember that she has hard data from Bandcamp on what gets downloaded most and earns money.

What I find frustrating is that it seems that all the threads about new projects get clogged up with this same discussion. I'd like to suggest that if you feel strongly on this topic, you start a thread about it or participate in the Open Letter to Amanda or Challenge to Amanda discussions.

This is such a great community, I hate to see it fragment.

[The Angel Raliel]

indeed and it is worth noting that this is as much an Ok GO! and Ben Folds project as much as an AfP one..... personally I like the idea of doing stuff because it is interesting and different not because it is what is expected...

[lentower]

This is not exciting. at all.
I guess someone will tell me when she makes a real album again.

edit: and maybe this thread should be renamed to "exciting and innovative project of the week"

... of the moment?  ; - }

[lentower]

I continue to be hugely entertained by the manic, tongue-in-cheek ninja antics and concurrent blogging/twittering.  It's not like she's abandoned traditional music-making alotogether; it's been only five months since we saw the Dresden Dolls on tour, for pete's sake.  I'm not as big a fan of her uke sound, personally, but so what.  I do hope she considers making a studio album now and then, because I enjoy her piano rock and imaginative lyrics.  Cheers to all -- including those who disagree!

amidst all the twitter and blog words,
she does inform us that she is composing a song.
so those creative juices are still flowing

(btw, My Two Innings: i luv you avatar/image)

[lentower]

a tweeted
http://twitter.com/#!/amandapalmer/status/61465645623156736
many. i'll blog. RT @stavmeishar this
article criticizes Rethink Music project, but
makes a strong point. Thoughts?
http://bit.ly/hlnVI5

thoughts about the criticism?

read the comments over there too.

[brogen]

The reason that I love Amanda and her work is that she does what interests her and makes her happy - not what a record label wants her to do.

I ADORE WKAP, and there are songs on Australia that delight me, same as Evelyn Evelyn and the Radiohead album, but I do have to agree - I hate the chatter at the beginning of the songs on Australia. I hate live albums and never buy them.

All this said though, the fact that what Amanda is doing makes her happy does come through on the songs - for me anyway. WKAP was the album that made me love her, but Amanda has to change and grow, otherwise we would tire of her. Album after album of WKAP could prompt us to pose the question, can't she do anything else? These recent releases have proven that Amanda is more than the lead singer of The Dresden Dolls and the voice behind WKAP. The uke stuff is great, although I miss the piano sometimes.

Amanda's work makes me happy, and I am going to continue supporting her, but Amanda, if you are reading this, we would love another studio album with MOAR piano.

Eight songs in eight hours? I am excited to see what will come out of it. Bring it.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

i know i left, and i'm sure everyone knows how i feel about this stupid fucking shit, but

i'll just say, for the 3296742394th time,

please please please release your old demos amanda. it requires less effort than the australia joke minus the radiohead stunt divided by this 8-hour nonsense.

(i know that's a stretch and that i don't actually know what goes into any of this but i don't care, i just want to hear fucking kaledrina on a grand piano in a studio. is it that hard to upload them to bandcamp?)

[PolitelyOffend]

While I don't think the old system was much better at avoiding pure novelty, I do think things have gone a little far with hastily done creative projects. The projects can be innovative and amazing in ways that would have never come to be in a larger timetable, but there needs to be some variety of quickly produced creative endeavors and work that is marinated and carefully tended to as it is refined over time. Sometimes, the raw product is the best and most genuine, but sometimes stronger elements show through in the work when they are brought out over time. It completely depends on the medium and the type of project.
While the immediacy and the time constraints may force creation, there is also something beneficial about the high expectation that comes with taking time on a project. When time is taken, people are sometimes compelled to make a better product since they have invested so much time and energy in it. Also, this makes the obligation to the fans even more significant, since the longer they wait, the more they expect a good product.
Immersing yourself in a long and complex project yields different and in some cases, better, results than an immediate immersive project. It seems like the immediate promise of a reaction from an audience can be addictive and can color the work differently.
Both are good, but I think much more balance is needed.

[rottentothecore]

Am I the only person actually excited for this? Yeah, I would agree her last album could have been better but it was still more real than half the shit we call music out at the moment anyway. The money grabbing issue? I hope she does grab as much money as she can, for all the extra effort she puts into things that don't even get mentioned, she deserves every penny she can get her hands on. There are so many artists out there who have lost the personal touch of music and I will keep spending my money on these "half assed projects" until another piece of magic like WKAP happens. Those ninja gigs that she does are completely free, she could be charging but she doesn't. After her going over her time limit in Adelaide by like 45 minutes she then took us out into the garden and did another two hours FREE. She amazes me and everything she does excites me and I will never complain.

Massive ramble but be grateful mother fuckers!

[cworthington]

I guess I am far too envious of AFP to say this is a bad or whatever idea. I think of interesting "What ifs" all the time and have neither the talent, the time, the access, or the friends to help produce those ideas.

Studio albums are great but the power and possibilities inherent in "What ifs" would fuel the world into armageddon if more creative people had the gumption to follow through.

If AFP is the type of person I think she is based on her past work, I am quite certain there will be other studio albums and other ninja stunts and other musical instrument changes, etc. I personally love the Uke Radiohead because I can see AFP going "What if Radiohead was played on a ukulele?" and then following through with the idea.

Do 8 songs in 8 hours tend to not necessarily be the absolute best work of artists? In general, probably. But I have heard of stories, and have experienced them myself, where some of the best songs and poems and artistic ideas comes from a collaboration of odd people and takes hardly any time at all. Some of my best poetry was written as a 5 minute challenge in a chatroom. But it does take a creative collection of people to accomplish this. And really, can you honestly say the people involved in this little shindig aren't creative? I would say OkGo has proven over and over again that they are fantastically creative as has AFP and Ben Folds, and Neil Gaiman is one of my favorite comics and book writers. I would love to measure the Creative Funk that is going to flow off these people when they undergo this project.

I would never want anyone to stop being creative and sharing their ideas with me and the world. Take inspiration from everywhere, the audience, your friends, perfect strangers on the street. But the moment you start saying "Well, maybe I shouldn't because people may not like it..." is the time you should just stop. Because at that point fear of the possibilities will overwhelm any creative spark you might have had.

Enough said.

[heathyre]

I think we are spoiled and cursed by Amanda.

I love the fact that if she thinks up a new song, you know within a few hours she'll have a MP3 up somewhere for all of us the listen to, we don't even have to ask. We pretty much know what she's doing, where she is, what she thinks, what she feels, everything between her blog and twitter streams. I think many people have become numb to all the over stimulation.

There are other artists, or even maybe Amanda before social media made us all so interconnected that aside from when they were on tour you never knew what they were up to. You would stalk the internet chat/messaging boards looking for some hint of what they were up to. If they mentioned they were working on a song we all begged to hear it, it didn't matter if it was polish or not. We just wanted to know. We begged to know what they thought or felt or what they were doing when they weren't on tour. We searched for candid photos and shared them...there was a certain magic if racing to buy that album when you had not had anything fresh for the last few years since the previous release.....fast forward to now. All the things we begged for, all the time's we've said between albums, I wish there was more. We have it! The only thing between us and Amanda is our physical locations. And people complain.

While yes, nothing she has released has been like WKAP....but do you really expect it to be? I am sure, tucked away in a notebook somewhere Amanda has some songs she has been working on that maybe she hasn't shared with us...ones that she has been nurturing and caring for...the ones that would rank up there with Ampersand etc. In the mean time, she's having fun. When an opportunity rises to make put out a new song or 8 she does. The beauty of now is when its up on Bandcamp you can listen to it and decide, nah its not for me or OMG I must own this NOAW!

Remember in the old days where if your favorite artist came out with a new album you had to drop $20 to buy it and then pray that it was worth it?

Amanda, don't stop what you are doing. No matter what you do someone will always complain...even if its exactly what they begged for for the last x-number of years.

<3

[nonibet]

"I prefer the artists I like to be prolific rather than perfectionists who hardly release anything, that way I can listen to what I like and there'll probably be more of it."

I agree with this.  I love Amanda enough that I have travelled from England twice to see her in one-off shows in Boston, but I definitely don't like every single song of hers / that she is part of.  And that's okay, and there is enough of the stuff that I do like (both old and new) that it doesn't matter that there are some things that I don't like.

Do I prefer WKAP to Down Under?  Well....yes and no.  I prefer Astronaut to New Zealand, but I prefer Doctor Oz to Have To Drive.  I don't really like Ampersand or Bad Wine and Lemon Cake at all.  Leeds United and Map of Tasmania are my top two "most played" songs on iTunes.  

I think this new project sounds fun and like it could create something great.  What I think is also important is that I will be able to listen to what it creates before I decide if I'm going to pay for it or not, and I can do this for free via Bandcamp as many times as I need to.  How many other artists can you say that about?  

Yes, I would like another Amanda Palmer studio album.  Yes, I would like another Dresden Dolls studio album.  No, I'm not the biggest fan of the talking before the songs on Down Under (but I know how to use my fast-forward button, problem solved!).  I'm allowed to have these preferences, and Amanda is free to completely ignore them.  She's not my bitch.  And I am not hers either.  We can both do exactly what we want - she can make the art that she wants, and I can buy however much or little of that art as I want.  Even if it gets to a point where I'm not liking or buying any of her new stuff, that won't diminish the enjoyment I get out of the old stuff.

Amanda - you can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time.  But you can't please all of the people all of the time.  So keep doing what you want to do - because if I had to pick one thing that I love about you, it's that your art and your music is real.  As much as I want another studio album (and I want it a lot) - by the same factor I don't want a half-hearted studio album.

[nonibet]

But on another note...while I don't agree that artists should cater to every single demand of their fans...what happens when there aren't enough fans left buying to finance the creation of the art?

Is it right to then "give the people what they want"?  Would doing that diminish artistic integrity?

[neversaynikki]

Reading through this thread, the first thing that I noticed what that we all may be confusing the idea of "whole-hearted" with the idea of "well-produced."

Really, guys, one doesn't have anything to do with the other. I mean, between Radiohead covers and the Australia record, which one was produced more effectively? The covers, no doubt. But do I think that therein lies more heart? No. I think it was an interesting idea executed in an interesting way, but when it comes down to it, much of the Australian record came across as a pure effort of love. Why? Many reasons. For one thing, I think we can all agree that Amanda is largely a performer -- I don't like live records, but I adore hers, because there's a form of passion that you just can't get in the studio. More simply, I get the impression that a good deal of her heart lies in Australia, and it shows. Sure, there are plenty of jokes on the album, but that can't define a record.

So, maybe eight songs in eight hours is not going to produced the most polished piece of work. But I think that that sort of pressure, that kind of intense search for ideas, will yield something that may not be a joke at all.

But the biggest thing that seems to be getting overlooked is that this project, at least in my opinion, is being undertaken as an experiment. Moreover, it's being showcased as the modern leaps of the music industry. It is not Amanda, Ben, Damian, and Neil going Look you guys! Look at how little effort we need to put into things! Aren't we great? Isn't time and dedication overrated? It is the idea that the entire industry is moving away from the necessity for polished, perfected work, and into the realm of self production and self promotion. It's not an example, per se (it's a fundraiser, if you get pushed for a label), but I do believe that it follows the train of thought that things are changing for musicians.

Do I think it's worth an $800 ticket?

No.

Do I think it's worth watching some of the webcast and appreciating what comes out of it?

Absolutely.

Take everything at face value, guys.

[Matthew Ebel]

A real fetish for novelty exists, especially with the media.  You will never see a headline or blog post titled "Artist Releases Really Good-Sounding Album", the news has to be about a video with treadmills or how young the artist is or the fact that the videos show every take that you're actually hearing.  The quality of the music has been upstaged by the Cult of Novelty and the music suffers for it.

As a working musician, though, how else do you keep people talking about you?  Do fans have the patience to stick with you while you hunker down in the studio and the coffee shops for months?  Will they continue to support you through the summer even though your labors won't produce fruit until the fall?

Mine do, but my fans are a special breed of Awesome that don't fall for cheap theatrics.  I believe Amanda's fans are Awesome as well, but we'll see if she has the faith in them required for a long-term project.

As for Jeremy's assessment of the Rethink project...  novelty for the sake of a fundraiser is always acceptable in my book.  I would chastise whomever wrote the press release, though, since the only reason there's any buzz around this event is the celebrity crew.  People have been making amazing short-term music for decades without major press coverage, they're called Jazz musicians.  This event is a flash-in-the-pan to drive money to a good cause, not a business model that will replace the old industry.

(Edit: Jeremy Schlosberg wrote the Hypebot post, Bruce just posted it.)

[bluedance]

I love that Amanda get's out there and does what she wants, regardless of how we the fans react to it. The music industry (along with many other artistic industries) are changing drastically because of technology and the economy. Amanda is pushing the boundaries and testing the waters in the hope that other artists can get out there and produce what they feel the need to produce. Even if she's putting out pieces that are "unpolished", I'd rather that than have some industry big-wig stifle her creativity because "it might not sell". The fact is, the more connected people become (via technology or whatever) the more chances we have to find incredibly niche areas of interest. The mass production for the masses is at a turning point. Opening up the technology to everyone has turned consumers into producers. This isn't to say every person can create something that everyone will, or enough people will love, but what it is, right now, is that we are in the middle of a power shift. The gatekeepers in big business are no longer the ones saying what gets published and what gets trashed. We haven't yet figured out who the new gatekeepers and filterers are, but that's the exciting part about being in an upheaval, in a revolution: we don't know where this is going, but we get to play with it and try to push it in a right direction.

Back on topic to the 8 songs in 8 hours album. I like the idea. In the premise they state that they aren't sure what's going to come of it, but the feel that there's enough in that collaborative creative spirit to make something worth sharing in that time. Will it be the best thing ever? maybe not. But who knows, they could surprise themselves and hit genius. Constraints do amazing things for creativity. Personally, I'm inspired by Amanda and all the other artists that are stepping out into the view of everyone via the internet and doing what they want to do instead of what the 'should be doing to earn a living as an artist'. Things are only the way they were because a bunch of labels formed and said 'okay, now to be an artists you have to do A, B, and C'. When really there's more to being an artist than just producing art. It's the creativity and the exploration that leads to those wondrous places.

Will I love everything that my favorite artists, both musicians and other, do? No. Will I enjoy watching them explore and create? Heck yes. To me, that's the best part.

[Mister Sahara]

not sure how i feel about amanda doing this (obvious reasons alsready stated 1111 times), but i think ben folds is one hell of an improvisor (on the piano and without) so if for nothing else i'm gonna watch this for his ideas. generally, i wouldn't underestimate the collective creative power of 4 artists sticking their heads together...
there's kind of a difference between stuff Amanda does on her own and this - because we all know that she has a incredible ability to write songs from her heart... so if the basis (her taking time to write+record songs and promoting them as her album etc.) is the same but the outcome is just some sort "project" fun thing it is somehow more disappointing than stating beforehand that it's going to be a fun experiment thing done by a group of people...
hah i hope that made sense!

[JohnMCoons]

I am incredibly excited about this project, but not because I'm expecting to hear another WKAP or Whatever and Ever Amen. I'm looking forward to this like I would look forward to a bunch of jazz musicians I like who I've never seen jam together- the rewards will most likely lie in the creative and musical back and forth between the artists, in the spontaneous creation (like a good sax solo), in the shared moment of intent from 4 creative forces. Even if everything they produce in these 8 hours never rises to the level of a single track off of Songs for Silverman, it will still have been fascinating to watch, and it will have entertained, made some people think (and rethink other things) and there will be more pieces of creation and collaboration in existence than had it not happened... and isn't that the point of art?  

Never mind the fact that these songs, while they are being recorded, are not necessarily in a finished state- the seeds and "first draft" of some of these songs might evolve into some absolutely timeless works.

However, I actually think that I will like, if not LOVE, a good chunk of the music made in this session based on the personalities involved. Ben Folds writes damn good songs off the top of his head, and has shown with Lonely Avenue that he leaves a great taste in your mouth when collaborating with writers (so I can't wait to see what he does with Gaiman). When asked about the song-writing process, Amanda has said that a lot of her songs are just songs she sat down and wrote. Damian is quirky and willing to give things a try- he seems like a good fit. These are personalities that excel at flexibility, spontaneity, and collaboration. While a different quartet of folks may be doomed from the start, I have high hopes for these guys based on their willingness to experiment and not being overly married to a single idea, sound, or process.

Hell, even if they only get one good song out of the whole thing- EVERYONE WINS, because EVERYONE then gets one good song out of it.

The fact is, they are DOING IT and what's more- they are SHARING the process and results with us, and that's all that matters to me personally. I mean, I'd geek out over just being able to be a fly on the wall for a Folds/Palmer jam session, and that's exactly what they're giving us. That said, I'm an "N" on the Myers-Briggs and am usually more in love with the idea of something than I am worried about the final results.

[My Two Innings]

When Amanda first started exploring the voluntary audience support model, I wrote a blog that ended as follows.  I still think it applies:

Palmer's close, caring, and technology-enabled relationship with her fans -- an intentional decision from the early days of The Dresden Dolls -- has yielded her the goodwill, social capital, and email lists that allow her to go to her audience repeatedly for voluntary, tangible support. Will it last? Is artist patronage, not by foundations but by average fans, a sustainable business model?

In "Christopher Lydon", an early Dresden Dolls song, Palmer's girl protagonist torches for the mellifluous NPR interview host, who ignores her on-air declaration of love for him. Jilted, she sings, "Thank you for everything, but I'm not listening anymore/Nor do I plan to contribute to NPR!" If Palmer's right about the new role of patronage at all levels of the music industry, there's a lesson in that lyric for all working musicians.

     - My Two Innings blog, 17 March 2009 (http://mytwoinnings.blogspot.com/2009/03/pass-hatand-plate.html)

Personally, I like the varied projects, but I also think there has to be a musical core that's deeper than the reality show, or else the attention will be fleeting.

[NightGal]

Am I the only person actually excited for this?

 NOPE, you're not the only one, rottentothecore! I like & agree with what you wrote.

Massive ramble but be grateful mother fuckers!

 Rock (& ramble) on!   

[Zoe Amory]

Well... what I reckon is: if she was doing it to grab money then I think that instead of asking people to donate a dollar she would demand everyone pay at least 20 bucks to download something. She doesn't, she asks for a donation. If you don't like it, don't donate. If you do, donate that dollar or two if you have any to spare.

I also personally don't understand why so many people seem to think badly about the EvelynEvelyn-project, I thought it was awesome.  (random comment)

I don't know, I mean after all the crap out there -I mean look at the songs that make these "Miley Montanas" famous. Would you pay money for that? Would you drive for 12 hours to see them perform live? I wouldn't.

I would however do that for Amanda, I would pay 20 bucks to download her "novelty" album rather than a "serious" album by the over-produced crap out there.

Amanda does what she wants to do, others do what they dare to do. And I respect her for doing what she wants to do, not just what everyone wants her to do.

No, her fans shouldn't pay money for something they don't want or like but is she asking that they do? No she is not. Paying her is mostly optional and even when it's not, the amount she is asking is less than 5 dollars, at least as far as I know. Why are so many people complaining? 

So I repeat: if you don't want it, don't pay for it if you don't have to (and mostly you don't, you can always torrent it or try to find it on Youtube I'm sure). If you look it up and decide that you like it after all then go and donate.

[lentower]

i appreciate all the "Newbies" posting in this thread.
Like those who have hung out here on the sbox for years,
you are all thoughtful and creative.

Welcome, and feel free to post more!


I, too, am excited by this project.


The artist(s) and the project are more important than how it's done.

Though transparency and communication about it all is important.

Music lovers should have the truth, before they invest time +/or money
in listening to new art.
Especially if the work is different from the past.

[bluedance]

i appreciate all the "Newbies" posting in this thread.
Like those who have hung out here on the sbox for years,
you are all thoughtful and creative.

Welcome, and feel free to post more!

Thanks. I've been meaning to join for a while, grad school has kept me busy. Hoping to be around some, but we'll see what time dictates. Just couldn't let this topic slide by without putting in my two cents. Pushing boundaries and discovering truths is mostly what art is about. It shouldn't be discouraged just because it's not what the fans want from an artist.

[Morpheus Laughing]

8S8H is an interesting idea. If you’re comfortable with who you’re working with it should be possible to do it…The time constraints might even help structure the process in a beneficial way. I’m not really sure what to expect in terms of results but that lack of preconception is probably a good thing.

[Hydrophidian]

Wow. Uhm... so, hello!

Right, then. The topic. Share thoughts. Here we go...

I adore Peter Gabriel's music.

Seriously, I do. I have music from hundreds, maybe thousands, of artists. In fact, let me check on that...

Yep, a couple thousand.

Of that number, a handful of artists stand head and shoulders above all the others. They're my musical Justice League, if you will. And of that handful, Gabriel is clearly Superman (strike a pose, Petey).

The reason why is: I've enjoyed every track on every studio album that Gabriel's ever released. Every single one. Considering how picky I am, that's no small feat. Over these many (oh too many) years, his music has spoken to me in a way that has been truly singular in its consistency.

"But, hey!" you respond. "What the fuck does this have to do with Amanda Palmer?" Well, I'm gettin' to that! Hold your horses, jeez! These are thoughts! No one said they had to be concise!

The thing is, Gabriel is notorious for taking his own sweet time in putting out studio albums. Last one was Scratch My Back (an interesting covers project) released just last year. Before that? Up. That was back in 2002, eight years earlier.

EIGHT FRICKIN' YEARS! Almost a decade! Yikes!

Now, let's lookit darling Amanda (finally!). Aw. Innit she cute? Just precious!

Who Killed Amanda Palmer? was released late in 2008. Just over two years, folks.

Since then, she's done... well, near as I can gather, a metric crap-ton of stuff. From following her on Twitter, she seems pretty much nonstop action to me, constantly doing something. Frankly, it's exhausting. After reading her tweetbombs, I sometimes have to take a nap.

Anywho, has it all been recorded music? No. It's been a lot of performance as well. And since I just brought that up, I'll point out: aside from being a musical artist, Amanda's also a performance artist. That's kinda important, as points go, when considering the creative output of the particular individual that is AFP. If you're not into that stuff--if you just dig the polished musical offerings--that's okeedokee-fine. But you should be aware that, in terms of artistic expression, there's more to her than that. It's not the only itch she has to scratch. And if you're a creator, you go where the itches take you-- Okay, that didn't come out quite right. But you get the idea. Probably.

So, yes. Performance! Upon it Palmer doth dig. Obviously. Ham, thy name is Amanda and so on. When considering this, it shouldn't be surprising that she's glommed onto the whole social networking thang with her apparently characteristic verve. As a happy result, we all get to know what she's up to all the time.

But what if she didn't put it all out there like that? Would anyone really be kvetching about a WKAP follow-up right now?

Honestly, I'm thinkin'... no. Again, it's been just over two years. Typically, right about now is when more earnest inquiries about the next album would just be starting. Nevermind the gnashing of teeth and tearing of clothes I see going on in this thread. I doubt that'd be happening hardly at all.

But, because Amanda's provided this insight into her doings--of which there is much (of both)--our sense of time gets warped. Surely, with this sheer mountain of output she's produced, it's been a very long time since WKAP? Seems like it. But no. Hasn't actually been that long at all.

Oh, and of course, also coming with the transparency she's adopted are the inevitable "yer doin' it wrong!" people, but I'm going to be charitable and assume they're a tiny minority in this case.

However, let's consider that for a second. Is she doing it wrong? Should she be locked in a studio somewhere, working tirelessly on the next offering? Putting aside for a moment her other artistic passions and inclinations, her seeming need to connect and everything else... would focusing on the next album be the right course?

If you hadn't noticed, the landscape out there is shifting. Rapidly and radically. How art is made, and how one makes a living by making it, is all up in the air right now. The old rules and established methodology are being challenged. In this current environment, artists have more freedom, but walking hand-in-hand with that is more responsibility. It's on the artists to make it happen for themselves more so than it ever was before. At least for the one's that're bucking tradition, and Amanda does buck her brains out, so she's definitely one of those, right?

In any case, it's work. It's hard work. Rewarding? I would guess so. Liberating? I have no doubt. But hard? Demanding? Draining? Yah, absolutely.

From what I'm seeing, all this stuff that Amanda's been doing--this parade of "novelty" projects and endeavors that some have been bemoaning--is necessary. It's what's going to make the next studio album even possible. It's what keeps AFP in the circumstances she needs to be in to create, to produce, to ultimately craft that next album you crave. She's a business owner now, and her business is herself. She needs to sell sell sell her bread and butter product in order to provide the luxury goods in which you long to indulge.

So, okay, you might not like the way she's going about it. It's certainly not the only way to go about it. There are others who're taking different approaches to the situation--Imogen Heap, Klayton of Celldweller, Trent Reznor are the first few that spring to mind for me--but those methods are what work for them. Amanda's doing what works for her. And that's what's important. What works for Imogen, Klayton, Trent--or you and me--is irrelevant. The only one who can decide what works for Amanda... is Amanda.

So! As requested, those are some thoughts from me. They can serve as my introduction to this forum (hullo!). While I certainly enjoy a lot of Amanda Palmer's music... I think I'm a bigger fan of her as a creative force in general (even if I'm not always personally taken with what's being created) and as a voice for change in an industry that so desperately, desperately needs it. I personally belive that AFP as the total package is far more important right now than specifically AFP: maker of studio albums. If the latter has to go on the back burner for a while, so be it. I doubt it'll ever be measured in Gabriel Time anyway.

And as a closing remark: if nothing else, any path that leads to something like Map of Tasmania coming into existence is 100% A-OK with me!

Thanks for reading!

[Edit: Cuz I need to lern to count betterz. Derp. ]

[Cirque]

Still waiting for that solo piano record she talked about back in 2007.
You know, before WKAP got all Folds-ised

[Hayley Fiasco!]

Still waiting for that solo piano record she talked about back in 2007.
You know, before WKAP got all Folds-ised

I find it interesting how people hold on to all sorts of ideas, projects, concepts etc. that Amanda says in passing. As a music fan, and especially as a fan of Amanda's, I see it happen all the time - artists mention projects they're working on or that they want to or plan to work on, and for whatever the reason they don't happen or they don't see the light of day.

Wait all you want for whatever it is that you want, but you never really know if what you're waiting for will be, and if it does happen, you will probably build up many expectations for it. So for me, I find it much easier to take things day by day, have hope and excitement for the projects that I want to see/hear/enjoy but have faith that maybe they won't be.


I had typed up a longer post for this thread and ended up scrapping it. Maybe I'll come back to it, maybe I won't. But the main thing that I would really like to get across here is that Amanda is pushing the envelope and exercising her own creativity by trying new things and pioneering (or at least making her unique mark on) techniques and methods in how independent (non label sponsored) artists make music and what they can accomplish through their use of social media and by fostering a community or collective of supporters.

I know that when Amanda is ready - and it may just be sooner or even later than any of us think - but I know when she's ready to release another proper full length studio album it will be magnificent with its own meaning, and beauty. Not comparable to WKAP because that's silly to compare new art to old art in that way (apples and oranges, expectations and setting yourself up for disappointment, let each unique album and piece of art stand on its own).

This 8 songs in 8 hours PROJECT is not "amanda is releasing a new record!!!!" in the way that the media portrays it - because literally yes it's releasing music, but Amanda has basically proven time and time again since she left RoadRunner that she is on a mission to change the way she gets her music to her fans. I'm excited about this project because I know (or really, I ASSUME) that it takes Amanda and some of the other writers at this conference quite a bit of time to write a song they are proud of, to fine tune it after it's been stirring in their head, or after it's been played live. And here they have constraints - they don't know if it'll be something they are proud of, they don't know if they will LIKE what they come up with, but they will have pressure to come up with something and they must work together to do it. That to me, as a music fan, is EXCITING, it's like a reality TV show challenge, the THRILL, the SUSPENSE and we get to watch it all as it unfolds!

You don't have to like the content that Amanda has put out recently for whatever the reason(s) you don't like it. You don't have to buy or listen to her music, you can wait however long as you need to for another "proper solo CD" or fuck, wait as long as you need to for another Dresden Dolls album - whatever it is that you are waiting for or whatever it is that you want, but in the mean time maybe you can see how it's exciting to be part of something - albeit experimental, but part of something that is forcing us as fans and the music industry to take a double look at what is being done and how it's being done.

Amanda's really doing something special in riding the wave of the changing music industry... she's not just riding the wave, she's paving the way... for other independent musicians and artists to take their careers and art into unchartered territory.

[Cirque]

^ I didn't quite literally mean waiting for it.
Rather that I think it would be a good direction to go because in my opinion, Amanda's best work has been on solo piano. I'm quite aware that it won't be happening any time soon what with Amanda's collaborations and other such things.
Maybe it won't ever happen, really it's all up to Amanda and we, including I, just have to respect her choices.

[lentower]

this 8 songs project is as much performance art, as it is producing an 'album'

there is a web cast announced, and twitter is involved

so watching it (or the archive) may be a better experience,
than listening to the album on tuesday


it's quite likely that these songs will have the same too quick,
needed editing and polish, that neil's words in the WKAP book
did/do

i've read alot of neil's work, before he and amanda found one another.

though his writing in the WKAP books is good,
it's not as fine or exquisite as the writing in any of the Sandmans,
American Gods, etc.

the quickness of the WKAP book project shows in his writing there.

this could be true of the 8s8h project.
we'll know tuesday


wouldn't it be awesome,
if our fav musicians, could do a quality album quicker?

8s8h is, at least, practice for this

[Hayley Fiasco!]

Maybe it won't ever happen, really it's all up to Amanda and we, including I, just have to respect her choices.

well said.

[laurieanne]

This is a publicity stunt geared to attract the attention of media and music moguls who have so much money falling out of their asses that they can drop $800 on a ticket to this thing. Funny...Amanda was just bragging about what a great "singer' Neil is and Viola! he comes down with a terrible chest cold. Gee, bet he won't be lending his vocal stylings to the recording now. What did ya do Neil, stand outside last night in your underpants until you got sick? Almost as slick as wearing your funeral suit on The Colbert Report so Stephen wouldn't make you look like an ass. "Cause who is gonna pick on a guy who's father just died? "Oh, I wore that because I had nothing else to put on" ......yeah, you flew all the way to the UK, stayed there for days but had not one change of clothes with you. Uh-huh. We're all morons, Neil, we believe everything you say..........you too, Amanda-if you say it or type it, it must be true.......

[Pope Totalfrog]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a nutjob.

[absynth aura]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a nutjob.

Do you have anymore space  in your bunker?

[Zoe Amory]

Funny...Amanda was just bragging about what a great "singer' Neil is and Viola! he comes down with a terrible chest cold.

I think it's more likely he got it from Amanda who was sick herself just a while ago. Plus it's the season, everyone's getting a cold this time of year. 

[imaginary friend]

This is a publicity stunt geared to attract the attention of media and music moguls who have so much money falling out of their asses that they can drop $800 on a ticket to this thing. Funny...Amanda was just bragging about what a great "singer' Neil is and Viola! he comes down with a terrible chest cold. Gee, bet he won't be lending his vocal stylings to the recording now. What did ya do Neil, stand outside last night in your underpants until you got sick? Almost as slick as wearing your funeral suit on The Colbert Report so Stephen wouldn't make you look like an ass. "Cause who is gonna pick on a guy who's father just died? "Oh, I wore that because I had nothing else to put on" ......yeah, you flew all the way to the UK, stayed there for days but had not one change of clothes with you. Uh-huh. We're all morons, Neil, we believe everything you say..........you too, Amanda-if you say it or type it, it must be true.......

umm, yeah...it's "voila!"   

#@!

[Musings]

it's like a reality TV show challenge

I would prefer my music not to be like Bridalplasty.... ;-)

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

Neil is a great singer.



Neil is sick.




Edit: Also I don't care if it's to attract the media. I don't care about this whole thing, but I care even less about if it's a special thing for the media. The fact is, it's happening and the money is going to a good place, regardless of ulterior motives.

[neversaynikki]

This is a publicity stunt geared to attract the attention of media and music moguls who have so much money falling out of their asses that they can drop $800 on a ticket to this thing. Funny...Amanda was just bragging about what a great "singer' Neil is and Viola! he comes down with a terrible chest cold. Gee, bet he won't be lending his vocal stylings to the recording now. What did ya do Neil, stand outside last night in your underpants until you got sick? Almost as slick as wearing your funeral suit on The Colbert Report so Stephen wouldn't make you look like an ass. "Cause who is gonna pick on a guy who's father just died? "Oh, I wore that because I had nothing else to put on" ......yeah, you flew all the way to the UK, stayed there for days but had not one change of clothes with you. Uh-huh. We're all morons, Neil, we believe everything you say..........you too, Amanda-if you say it or type it, it must be true.......

this seems like a perfect opportunity for my favorite latin phrase! non sequitur, my friend. very, very non sequitur.

[Hayley Fiasco!]

I heard him sing once... It's true, he has a lovely singing voice, which shouldn't be a surprise as his speaking voice is terrific.

Funny...Amanda was just bragging about what a great "singer' Neil is and Viola! he comes down with a terrible chest cold.

I think it's more likely he got it from Amanda who was sick herself just a while ago. Plus it's the season, everyone's getting a cold this time of year. 

It's also worth noting that Amanda was signed up to be a speaker at the music conference many months before they opted to do the 8 songs in 8 hours. Her panel has been on ReThink's schedule website for ages now. It's part of, or sponsored by MIDEM (which Amanda spoke at last year).

 

[Musings]

In seriousness:

I have a long post written in my head entitled, "Dear Amanda Palmer's Music, Why I'm Breaking Up with You, and It's Me, Not You, But Maybe a Little You, Too"...

But it has nothing to do with this particular project.

People have done a lot stupider things for charity (and not for charity, for that matter), and I would much rather Amanda, Ben, and Damien write an album in 8 hours and have something musical that I can listen to and have an opinion on than they sell their underwear on Ebay.  Or actually participate in a back-stabbing reality TV show (i.e., Celebrity Apprentice).

I think people are bristling at the idea of such a project after a string of gimmicky projects/products from Amanda -- but it's charity, collaboration, and frankly, I'm kind of interested of the product because out of the three artists, Damien of Ok Go has been able to produce some really fantastic art out of out-there, gimmicky concepts (take a look at any Ok Go videos),  Amanda and Ben have had kind of a hit or miss record... but hopefully they'll be able to inform each other's art and creative processes in new ways.

Edit: And how could I forget Neil with his mysterious sudden illness, possibly brought on by a deal made with the devil in order to avoid singing on this album.

[The Epigrammic Poultry]

I have actually really liked her last few little endeavours, but that's beside the point really. To be honest, I don't give a shit whether I'll like this or not, or her next project, or the next thing after that. As much as I adore the music she has written, and I love to hear new music by her, it's not like I'm in a tactile, brittle relationship with Amanda Palmer's music. I'm not obligated to follow her music either way, but nor can't "get divorced" from her work.

I love Siouxsie and The Banshees, but that doesn't mean I give a fuck if I think half of Siouxsie's body of work isn't worth listening to. I listen to the other half and leave it at that.

If you like a piece of music, listen to it. If you don't like it, stop bitching and listen to something else.

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

^
Yes.

[Zoe Amory]

If you like a piece of music, listen to it. If you don't like it, stop bitching and listen to something else.

Finally, someone said what I've been thinking but couldn't word out. Agree wholeheartedly. 

[Agonistes]

I love Siouxsie and The Banshees, but that doesn't mean I give a fuck if I think half of Siouxsie's body of work isn't worth listening to. I listen to the other half and leave it at that.

amazingly well said, sir.  this has in the past always been my approach to music, and it's my burgeoning opinion that i should, in fact, keep it that way.

[theseeker]

http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/4911869917/afp-responds-to-hypebot She's so eloquent <333

(Shhhhhhhh...)

[MeAndMyCharms]

I have actually really liked her last few little endeavours, but that's beside the point really. To be honest, I don't give a shit whether I'll like this or not, or her next project, or the next thing after that. As much as I adore the music she has written, and I love to hear new music by her, it's not like I'm in a tactile, brittle relationship with Amanda Palmer's music. I'm not obligated to follow her music either way, but nor can't "get divorced" from her work.

I love Siouxsie and The Banshees, but that doesn't mean I give a fuck if I think half of Siouxsie's body of work isn't worth listening to. I listen to the other half and leave it at that.

If you like a piece of music, listen to it. If you don't like it, stop bitching and listen to something else.

Yes, this.

I really can't understand people's need to get angry, or hurt, or upset over an artist releasing something that they personally don't like. Chances are, it's going to happen at some point anyway. You can't always love everything they do.
We've all got bands we loved as we grew up. Through our school years, as we got older. Then we moved on because our tastes evolved.
This happens with artists too. They are allowed to change. It's not like they sign a contract at the start of their career stating that they Must never think outside of the box! Must never grow as an artist! And for God sake, don't do anything to startle the audience! Keep it nice and predictable..

Some people who have been fans of an artist for quite a time start to get this elitist attitude, and think that said artist owes them. It's like they want an apology when something they don't like is released.
Personally, I am not excited at all about this 8 songs thing. I won't be watching the webcast, and it will probably take me quite some time to even check out the end results. It just doesn't grab me by the tits.
But not once did I even feel the need to get upset about this. That reaction doesn't make sense to me. Why would it bother me?
I'll just go listen to some Kristin Hersh. Or The National. Or any one of all those other amazing bands/artists that are out there.
I'll patiently wait for the next project Amanda decides to try, and if I like it, fucking fantastic! Another thing to chuck on my iPod to listen to at work.

Also, nobody has even heard anything from this 8 songs project yet. Nothing has even been written, but so many people have already got the divorce proceedings rolling. The bad reviews are already written up.
Calm down everybody.

I feel so sorry for Amanda sometimes. She has to deal with such an emotional, needy audience at times. She can't even crack a joke on twitter without being blasted by the emo masses.
I hope she writes a country album full of fat jokes next. Won't y'all love that one!

[CaffeinatedCassadie]

i know i left, and i'm sure everyone knows how i feel about this stupid fucking shit, but

i'll just say, for the 3296742394th time,

please please please release your old demos amanda. it requires less effort than the australia joke minus the radiohead stunt divided by this 8-hour nonsense.

(i know that's a stretch and that i don't actually know what goes into any of this but i don't care, i just want to hear fucking kaledrina on a grand piano in a studio. is it that hard to upload them to bandcamp?)

MOTHERFUCKING YES.
At least that's a good beautifulamazingmeaningful song!

[yosmark]

lol i wanted to comment on it but eh, i mean, same old same zero effort thing she's going to invent ridiculous 5000$ bundles for.

  That is one of the funniest things I have read 


I haven't heard the last Album (I first have to order it and then dedicate one or two days to it) and well I don't know what will come out of this project but thing is I am probably going to buy it and listen to it. I am a fan of this lady and if she decides to create music with the screaming of a dying pig I am probably going to buy it and listen to it.

[Pope Totalfrog]

I just read the blog.

I am all for change and experimentation. I just want a little effort put in with my product.

I don't think there is ever going to be another WKAP. Never expected one and it would be weird if there was. That was another place and time. But if there is another full length album it would be nice if it wasn't filled with live tracks and covers. Especially live tracks with 5 minute long intros. If it is then I'll probably want to listen to it before I hand over cash for it (I usually operate the other way around).

I think creatively everything is as good as it ever was but just seems to be lacking polish. Not that it has to be totally overproduced and crazy. Just feels like some attention to the finer points have been lacking in order to get it out there as quickly as possible.

All of those thoughts are pretty much unrelated to the eight hour project. The results of that are bound to be interesting and like one blog commenter I would be rather pleased if one of the tracks was a polka...

[absynth aura]

I have to say, that while I can see where people are coming from here, I also have to wonder why? Is it that important that Amanda makes something that is clearly "superior" to her last releases, an improvement on wkap?
I've read most of thistopic with increasing frustration at some of these replies. Obviously there will be those who disapprove of what she is doing, and I have to say that I  not one of those people.
Then again, I'm not saying that I absolutely adore everything that she has done, but I still spend money on her releases. Why? Because I love the idea of what she does, and the more I love the release, the more I spend on her.
I'm looking forward to the 8 songs on 8 hours because of the possibilities that can come of these 4 great minds working together. It could completely blow, or it could be an amazing success, or even somewhere in-between.
I would kill for another "serious" album from Amanda, but until she feels ready to put herself through that again, I will be happy with whatever she does, and if I'm not then I won't listen to it, because lime she said in her blog it took a year for wkap to be to her level. A year. That's a long time, and a lot of mental and physical stress, and with Amanda already traveling at a million miles an hour, doing that for another album, for a year, no matter who you are, that's a fuck tonne of effort.
Like it's been said before, don't listen to the Amanda that you don't like, listen to what you do, and ignore the rest and wait until so does release something you like, it's hard to please everyone and what makes you disappointed in Amanda may make someone else happy, and just wait in the hope thY one day she will release something that is your wkap II

[Musings]

I feel so sorry for Amanda sometimes. She has to deal with such an emotional, needy audience at times. She can't even crack a joke on twitter without being blasted by the emo masses.
I hope she writes a country album full of fat jokes next. Won't y'all love that one!

What. No.  I don't feel sorry for Amanda.  Out of 73 replies on here, a whole 5? are straightforwardly anti-8 Hours Album, and maybe 10 are middling -- I wonder, what if, I hope this isn't -- statements.  One of those 5 is a crazy, and 4 are long-time fans who have invested art, love, and most importantly dollars and time into seeing and purchasing and spreading the word of their favorite artist.  The majority are positive, and then after the defensive blog came out so did the knights in shining armor.  Defend her or your lack of emotional attachment to death, but understand that feeling sorry for an artist and posting on a fan community about it is a form of - yes - emotional attachment.  Wondering about the stress and mental health involved in creating a new album is -- emotional attachment.

This is an artist who has ninja gigs at 6 AM and counts on the people reading her tweets about her illness to listening to her new song about Vegemite and Lady Gaga and sells off things in her apartment to make money.  If there's an emotional needy audience, there's also also an emotionally needy artist who feels the need to defend herself to the naysayers before releasing the music that could be the defense in itself.  Neither is a bad thing, but recognize the thing for what it is.

One of the SBx posts that Amanda misquoted said, not as Amanda suggested, "this undertaking... is 2. a joke", but rather, hoped, that the songs would not be jokey.  Which is fair game after she released songs about pubic hair and Vegemite, and the album is being released with Ben Folds, who is know for his jokey songs as well.

If Amanda were a company, say, Apple, wouldn't people discuss how they hoped that the new iPhone didn't suck and that it resolved it's antenna issues and had those features that they had really really hoped for on the last phone?

If she were a director, say, Tim Burton, wouldn't people discuss they hope that the new film would be better than Alice in Wonderland and that he return to the form of Edward Scissorhands?

It happens all over the place.  And while artists forever will be shrugging their shoulders and saying "the fans, can't please them all", I think it's worth it to recognize that this fan base is overwhelmingly kind, positive, and intelligent, and some of us (love you, yoshiki) are

fan(s) of this lady and if she decides to create music with the screaming of a dying pig I am probably going to buy it and listen to it.

and some of us are more discriminating and want to passionately argue about music we care/cared about deeply.

For Amanda to say

i’ve come to expect that level of criticism from the fan community, since it’s been like that from day one: i’ve often felt i’m either damned for putting out too much (or/and the “wrong kind of”) material, or damned for holding out on the fans for not releasing enough material.

is interesting because "the fan community" probably sends out 100x more love (much of it superficial) than criticism, and there aren't many left who can take the barrage of "too much needy fan" or "i love Amanda" in response to criticism and pondering about the success of new material.

[Mark!]

yeah, felt kinda bad how amanda thought we were thinking that the project was a joke.  i just meant that i didn't want more jokey songs.  she is writing them more of them nowadays, and  as much as i do love some of her humerous songs, i would like to hear more serious songs. i don't think raising money for charity is a joke.  i will however buy this album cause i do still support her 100% just like i've bought her other albums.  i may have not been 100% satisified with her last album, but i still bought it and learned to loved it. 

[slyvia k]

Maybe us naysayers should stop peeing in everyone's teacup and just not post on the upper boards...
I mean, yeah, Cee did get that my comment (the zero effort - 5000$ bundles one) was a bit of an hyperbole, though Amanda probably didn't, because she addressed it in her blog... but I can't hide that there is quite a bit of hurt feeling behind such a statement.
I don't think that dismissing all criticism with ''not true'' and by saying that her fans have always been critical (to which I would add a : not true) and a tough crowd to please is very fair. I know that Amanda doesn't owe us anything.
I have been such a HUGE fan for so much time. Then the experimental projects kicked in. One was fine. Two, erm, ok. and the more ''fun'' the songs were, the more crazy bundles (like, seriously crazy) and the more stuff for sale. I felt as if Amanda just wanted to make money, and knew that she had a wide adoring (read, obsessive at time, like paying thousands of $ for a pregnancy test) fanbase that she could count on and that would buy literally ANYTHING she puts out.
If ''punk cabaret is freedom'', it has to be a two way street. Ninja gigs, but also, fans bringing food at gigs, fans hosting her... When was the last time you saw Amanda post on the board? I certainly can't remember. I don't know, some of the ''magic'' has gone... I'm not saying that we ''hardcore'' longtime fans should count more than newbies, not at all, but it's harsh to see she simply doesn't care..
And believe me, I do feel really bad at criticizing her so bitterly, because it's a bit like bashing an old, dear friend. Because that is the impression she gave out. and maybe I was just crazy to think there was some kind of connection, eh...
I travelled abroad to see her, bought every record and a lot of merch, used to draw her constantly, even designed some official merchandise for her (and all for free, I used to feel quite honored about being one of the ''chosen ones'')...because the music and also her attitude were just so appealing to me.
Now I feel like I'm just one of the crazy bashers being dismissed, and yeah, actually, it really sucks.

[MeAndMyCharms]

What. No.  I don't feel sorry for Amanda.  Out of 73 replies on here, a whole 5? are straightforwardly anti-8 Hours Album, and maybe 10 are middling -- I wonder, what if, I hope this isn't -- statements.  One of those 5 is a crazy, and 4 are long-time fans who have invested art, love, and most importantly dollars and time into seeing and purchasing and spreading the word of their favorite artist.  The majority are positive, and then after the defensive blog came out so did the knights in shining armor.  Defend her or your lack of emotional attachment to death, but understand that feeling sorry for an artist and posting on a fan community about it is a form of - yes - emotional attachment.  Wondering about the stress and mental health involved in creating a new album is -- emotional attachment.

This is an artist who has ninja gigs at 6 AM and counts on the people reading her tweets about her illness to listening to her new song about Vegemite and Lady Gaga and sells off things in her apartment to make money.  If there's an emotional needy audience, there's also also an emotionally needy artist who feels the need to defend herself to the naysayers before releasing the music that could be the defense in itself.  Neither is a bad thing, but recognize the thing for what it is.

One of the SBx posts that Amanda misquoted said, not as Amanda suggested, "this undertaking... is 2. a joke", but rather, hoped, that the songs would not be jokey.  Which is fair game after she released songs about pubic hair and Vegemite, and the album is being released with Ben Folds, who is know for his jokey songs as well.

If Amanda were a company, say, Apple, wouldn't people discuss how they hoped that the new iPhone didn't suck and that it resolved it's antenna issues and had those features that they had really really hoped for on the last phone?

If she were a director, say, Tim Burton, wouldn't people discuss they hope that the new film would be better than Alice in Wonderland and that he return to the form of Edward Scissorhands?

It happens all over the place.  And while artists forever will be shrugging their shoulders and saying "the fans, can't please them all", I think it's worth it to recognize that this fan base is overwhelmingly kind, positive, and intelligent, and some of us (love you, yoshiki) are

fan(s) of this lady and if she decides to create music with the screaming of a dying pig I am probably going to buy it and listen to it.

and some of us are more discriminating and want to passionately argue about music we care/cared about deeply.

For Amanda to say

i’ve come to expect that level of criticism from the fan community, since it’s been like that from day one: i’ve often felt i’m either damned for putting out too much (or/and the “wrong kind of”) material, or damned for holding out on the fans for not releasing enough material.

is interesting because "the fan community" probably sends out 100x more love (much of it superficial) than criticism, and there aren't many left who can take the barrage of "too much needy fan" or "i love Amanda" in response to criticism and pondering about the success of new material.

What do you want by posting your unhappiness with the direction she's taking with her music lately? Honestly, I can't understand. An apology because she's trying something a little different? What?
So many people keep saying they want another WKAP and to stop with the gimmicky crap . What if she's not ready to do that yet? Is she meant to force that record out? Nobody is going to make a beautiful, heartfelt record at gunpoint. It doesn't work that way.
Just listen to something else while you're waiting for the next Amanda Palmer gem.

In regards to my "I feel so sorry for Amanda sometimes. She has to deal with such an emotional, needy audience at times. She can't even crack a joke on twitter without being blasted by the emo masses" comment. That wasn't actually about just this. That was what she has to put up with all the time in general. I remember not too long ago she made a simple fat joke on twitter, the kind you or I could say without anybody batting an eyelid. But good god, did she get slammed for it.
How dare she make the kind of joke that most of us have said in our lifetime! Let's not forget the Evelyn Evelyn bullshit, or any off the cuff remark she makes that people try to find a way to make look like it was something really offensive, when it's absolutely not.

I remember not long after the EE controversy happened while she was in Australia, I was sitting near Amanda after a show while she was talking to a friend about it, and I could hear the frustration and hurt in her voice. This was something that she felt really passionate about, but so many people just looked for faults and berated her, and to see such a human reaction really effected me...

She is just a human.

She's not a company or an iPhone.


If somebody doesn't like something that an artist has released, yes, they have every right to say so. But to seek out that artist and make a point in telling them that you think what they are doing now is crap, I don't understand the need.
It's like people who announce that they are going to unfollow a celebrity on twitter. It just looks like a grab for attention to me..

[MeAndMyCharms]

and yeah, actually, it really sucks.

This is probably how it feels for Amanda to read negative, bitter comments from fans about her art. Those feelings that all the fans have, the artists have them too..

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/4911869917/afp-responds-to-hypebot She's so eloquent <333

(Shhhhhhhh...)

I liked this.

[Andy Pants]

This is an artist who has ninja gigs at 6 AM and counts on the people reading her tweets about her illness to listening to her new song about Vegemite and Lady Gaga and sells off things in her apartment to make money.  If there's an emotional needy audience, there's also also an emotionally needy artist who feels the need to defend herself to the naysayers before releasing the music that could be the defense in itself.  Neither is a bad thing, but recognize the thing for what it is.

Yeah, that's a good point, but I suppose this is a little like Fight Club, in that you decide your own level of involvement. Personally I've never watched a webcast or bought any irrelevant stuff or even any merch except for maybe a poster at a show once. I read the blog occasionally but not as much as I used to. This doesn't mean I'm not an active fan. I recommend her music to lot's of people, see her almost every opportunity I get and own all the albums, but I've never really understood the need for some fans to act like grassroots promoters. Maybe if I did act like that and I was directly inspired by her earlier work I might identify with the feeling being expressed by some people here.

As I said before, the more stuff an artist releases, the more music there is to listen to and potentially fall in love with. I don't expect this release to be great, but I'll certainly give it a cursory listen to find out. If it's bad I simply won't listen. Ultimately this comes down to obsessiveness. There are other artists just as good if not better than Amanda, she's not the only musician in the world. I say this as a big fan of Amanda's songwriting and style of music. If you don't like what she's doing at the moment, support some other artists. They're not mutually exclusive from one another. Why do you have to despair at the fact that an artist you like hasn't released any painstakingly executed music for a while? Firstly it takes time, secondly you have a back-catalogue of songs you already love and lastly their are other artists out there doing other amazing things.

I've never really questioned the obsessiveness of some fans (seriously, buying stuff from an artists house, why?) because I've always seen it as a consensual sort of relationship. Amanda makes money, obsessive fans get ridiculous stuff that any normal person wouldn't care about, but maybe it is a little manipulative. I think maybe a lot of these fans expect that they're going to get something in return for the effort they put in (in addition to all the free gigs they get), e.g. more of the style of music they like. They're wrong of course, artists throughout history have made it perfectly clear that they'll do whatever the fuck they feel like, but it doesn't change the fact that some of these obsessive fans are going to feel like they've been screwed when they figure that out.

Everything that Amanda does is about encouraging the idea that the relationship between an artist and their fan-base is co-operative or directly interactive, but that's bullshit. An audience members relationship with an artist is ridiculously one-sided. It's like having a conversation with someone to whom you're not allowed to speak. It's not really a conversation at all, you're just listening to them bitch about their problems or talk about the things that excite them. It's like dating a narcissist. Sure it sucks, but it's the nature of music. If you want an interactive relationship, go somewhere else.

I'm not going to lie. I got into Amanda's music for the depressing piano ballads, but if she decides to never write or record another song for piano or only write uplifting songs from here on out or just do something completely different every new album I am perfectly okay with it. I hope that someone else out there can get the same sort of personal metaphysical satisfaction out of that songwriting as I did out of WKAP and the Dresden Dolls and I'll certainly keep listening to see whether it moves me too. Personally as I grow up I've found myself becoming less miserable and self-serious though, so I don't mind the silly direction Amanda is taking with a lot of projects.

This is a decision lot's of artist have to face (particularly musicians) i.e. change and risk becoming shit in the pursuit of something better or do the same thing over and over and become boring. Ultimately they've just got to do what they feel like doing. I think that's what Amanda was trying to express in her blog, that she's just playing it by ear.

This whole project does seem to me like more of a publicity stunt than an artistic endeavour, but I think I have to listen to it first before I can properly make that assessment. I thought the same about Ben Folds / Nick Hornbys collaboration and it turned out to be awesome.

And even as a publicity stunt it seems to be working because guess what everyone on this thread and a whole bunch of pop culture websites are writing about it so I guess we've all been screwed. The real question is... are we being pleasantly screwed? (I'll decide when the album comes out)

Whoa kind of ranted on for a bit there.

[Musings]

Everything that Amanda does is about encouraging the idea that the relationship between an artist and their fan-base is co-operative or directly interactive, but that's bullshit. An audience members relationship with an artist is ridiculously one-sided. It's like having a conversation with someone to whom you're not allowed to speak. It's not really a conversation at all, you're just listening to them bitch about their problems or talk about the things that excite them. It's like dating a narcissist. Sure it sucks, but it's the nature of music. If you want an interactive relationship, go somewhere else.

Truth, and I and many others before me have said this before.  It's always worth repeating, though. ;-)

What do you want by posting your unhappiness with the direction she's taking with her music lately? Honestly, I can't understand. An apology because she's trying something a little different? What?
So many people keep saying they want another WKAP and to stop with the gimmicky crap . What if she's not ready to do that yet? Is she meant to force that record out? Nobody is going to make a beautiful, heartfelt record at gunpoint. It doesn't work that way.
Just listen to something else while you're waiting for the next Amanda Palmer gem.

You missed the point entirely.

The majority of the comments on this thread were -- as I said -- entirely positive or hopes that the new project would be different from past projects.  What's your issue with that?  Gasp -- we're discussing Amanda Palmer art on an Amanda Palmer discussion board with Amanda Palmer fans!  We're discussing how we feel in anticipation of a new project!  We're discussing hopes that it would be similar to some projects and not others!  I myself said that it could have interesting results. You're right, that is not something that you are meant to do on a fan community discussion board.
 

I am, happily, listening to lots of other things, and not waiting for anything. If something comes that I mesh with, great.  If not, I've moved on to better things.

I think it just behooves everyone to remember that:
1) AP has mostly positive, intelligent, kind fans
2) Even those positive, intelligent, kind fans have art they disagree with and feel passionately about.  Sometimes they humanly fuck up the phrasing, just like Amanda fucks up the phrasing some times. Is negative criticism something that Amanda would rather not know about?  (on a different note, did she have to write that she disliked the new Avril Lavigne CD or had issues with Lady Gaga?  Does Gaga need that kind of criticism?--or is she protected because she's a bigger artist and is less likely to read the blog?  Or because she's a pop artist.  She's a DD fan, remember.)  Everything about AP's art suggests that she would rather have fans who interact with her songs than fans that vapidly absorbed everything through their happy glands.  But we should always remember Andy's quote above, just in case we are offended by a dismissal of "the fan community" and "their criticism... from day one" (selectively quoted to make point).

[lentower]

and yeah, actually, it really sucks.

This is probably how it feels for Amanda to read negative, bitter comments from fans about her art. Those feelings that all the fans have, the artists have them too..

Amanda does have feelings, and really cares about people.  
And her fans are people to her.  
And friends.  
Some closer than others, but that's a matter of degree, not feeling.

Thoughtless complaints, selfish complaints have to bother her.  

Constructive respectful criticism might sting at times,
but are wanted and even encouraged.

Maybe us naysayers should stop peeing in everyone's teacup and just not post on the upper boards...
I mean, yeah, Cee did get that my comment (the zero effort - 5000$ bundles one) was a bit of an hyperbole, though Amanda probably didn't, because she addressed it in her blog... but I can't hide that there is quite a bit of hurt feeling behind such a statement.

Amanda was reacting to the comment,
not you, Slyvia K, her artist friend.

Enough of those who read it, don't know of the past
you have with her.
And many of those who didn't read it, have it in their
head anyway.

---

Let me make this $$ analytical comment another way.
Than the other ways,i've made it, here on the sbox,
in comments on her blog, and elsewhere.

Amanda 'employs' six or more full time equivalents.
We know of indecision, Hayley, SuperKate, currently employed.
There are part or full time people beyond that doing:
merch, law, contracts, bookkeeping, accounting, income taxes,
booking, 'management', etc.

For those she pays directly, she has to pay a living wage.
(Amanda both cares about people,
and knows that if you don't give people enough $$ to live on,
they can't perform well for you).
That's in the $20,000 to $25,000 range in NY City,
and not much lower in the rest of the US.
Rent, food, and basic expenses.

I'm also pretty sure she's pays health insurance for
those she employs directly.
That's over $5,000 a year in the US right now,
and going up a-lot every year.
She has to pay Social Security,
and other taxes employers have to pay.

So let's say 7 people at $40,000/year
(I'm including Amanda herself),
total cost of labor, not salary.
That's a quarter of a million dollars plus, in labor costs.
(And I'm not including a living wage for Amanda herself her).

25 $5,000 bundles.  (Have that many been sold in the last
year?)

And we haven't even considered the cost of making and
shipping the merch (That includes studio time for making
the albums, which is pricey).  The costs of
transporting amanda, her manager and/or her assistant,
etc. around.  The costs of the computers, this
forum and her other web sights are on (yes, team
amanda leverages 'free'/no direct $$$ websights on the
Internet, but that only goes so far).  Pens, pencils,
instrument repair, etc.  (Maybe I should start a thread,
and let you all post the things, Team Amanda HAS to spend
$$$ on)

And the income side?  Hmm, we have an artist here who
wants everyone to enjoy her music/art, regardless of
whether they can pay for it.  No charge ninja events,
download-able music on the net, at almost no charge.
Who let's her fans post pics, video, and audio of her
live performances with no restrictions.
Who asks the fans with extra money to donate,
buy expensive bundles, etc. to help her make it all
happen for everyone who wants to share her art with her.

Isn't she entitled to feeling bad that so many people
aren't getting the financial realities?

I don't think that dismissing all criticism with ''not true'' and by saying that her fans have always been critical (to which I would add a : not true) and a tough crowd to please is very fair. I know that Amanda doesn't owe us anything.
I have been such a HUGE fan for so much time. Then the experimental projects kicked in. One was fine. Two, erm, ok. and the more ''fun'' the songs were, the more crazy bundles (like, seriously crazy) and the more stuff for sale. I felt as if Amanda just wanted to make money, and knew that she had a wide adoring (read, obsessive at time, like paying thousands of $ for a pregnancy test) fanbase that she could count on and that would buy literally ANYTHING she puts out.
If ''punk cabaret is freedom'', it has to be a two way street. Ninja gigs, but also, fans bringing food at gigs, fans hosting her... When was the last time you saw Amanda post on the board? I certainly can't remember. I don't know, some of the ''magic'' has gone... I'm not saying that we ''hardcore'' longtime fans should count more than newbies, not at all, but it's harsh to see she simply doesn't care..

I miss Amanda posting here on the sbox,
but she's moved most of that to
twitter, and her blog.

Despite yoga, focus, great staff, etc.,
even Amanda has limits on what she can do.

It is also part of her evolution as an artist,
and person, to use and try new ways of communicating.

Each fan can move on, or not.

---

I know fans from the early days,
when she and Brian had hundreds,
not hundreds of thousands of fans.
Those early fans miss the early days,
like we're missing Amanda here on the sbox.

But Amanda and Brian both find time to share
a few words with each of them, and you, and me.

---

BTW, for those who haven't noticed,
Brian is posting on facebook,
less when he's on tour,
more when he's home.
But for him, a lot of words on the Internet.

And believe me, I do feel really bad at criticizing her so bitterly, because it's a bit like bashing an old, dear friend. Because that is the impression she gave out. and maybe I was just crazy to think there was some kind of connection, eh...
I travelled abroad to see her, bought every record and a lot of merch, used to draw her constantly, even designed some official merchandise for her (and all for free, I used to feel quite honored about being one of the ''chosen ones'')...because the music and also her attitude were just so appealing to me.
Now I feel like I'm just one of the crazy bashers being dismissed, and yeah, actually, it really sucks.

To repeat, your comment is being criticized back,
not because it's yours, but because it's
representative of many others.

rock love -len


sigh, the review I want to do of the show at Mass Art friday
will have to wait for another day,
and I also doubt i'll see much of the 8h8s webcast ...

[Morpheus Laughing]

Is negative criticism something that Amanda would rather not know about?

Some types of negative criticism can be constructive but when it’s coming from different subjective positions there isn’t much use for it. "It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t" deal.

(on a different note, did she have to write that she disliked the new Avril Lavigne CD or had issues with Lady Gaga?  Does Gaga need that kind of criticism?--or is she protected because she's a bigger artist and is less likely to read the blog? 

I’m guessing that fans probably ask AFP about Lavigne & Gaga and it probably makes sense to go on public record with the opinion if enough people are asking you the questions. You can't stop the truth from getting out indirectly so you might as well have the opinion written out in your own words.

[lentower]

it's live on partyontheinternet

the #8in8 tag trended worldwide in about five miuntes

[lentower]

the music is starting to happen

[lentower]

vocals happening!

[beth of all trades]

Amanda 'employs' six or more full time equivalents.
We know of indecision, Hayley, SuperKate, currently employed.
There are part or full time people beyond that doing:
merch, law, contracts, bookkeeping, accounting, income taxes,
booking, 'management', etc.

For those she pays directly, she has to pay a living wage.
(Amanda both cares about people,
and knows that if you don't give people enough $$ to live on,
they can't perform well for you).
That's in the $20,000 to $25,000 range in NY City,
and not much lower in the rest of the US.
Rent, food, and basic expenses.

I'm also pretty sure she's pays health insurance for
those she employs directly.
That's over $5,000 a year in the US right now,
and going up a-lot every year.
She has to pay Social Security,
and other taxes employers have to pay.

This is veering into very uncomfortable territory.  Unless a Team AFP member (past or present) wants to give a breakdown of what they're making, please do not make assumptions as to what people earn or if they have health insurance and other benefits.  I would be happy to share a breakdown of what I made working for Amanda, but at present I'm not at liberty to.

[Agonistes]

i'm watching the streaming.  from what i can tell this tesla song seems really wicked cool.

[lentower]

Amanda 'employs' six or more full time equivalents.
We know of indecision, Hayley, SuperKate, currently employed.
There are part or full time people beyond that doing:
merch, law, contracts, bookkeeping, accounting, income taxes,
booking, 'management', etc.

For those she pays directly, she has to pay a living wage.
(Amanda both cares about people,
and knows that if you don't give people enough $$ to live on,
they can't perform well for you).
That's in the $20,000 to $25,000 range in NY City,
and not much lower in the rest of the US.
Rent, food, and basic expenses.

I'm also pretty sure she's pays health insurance for
those she employs directly.
That's over $5,000 a year in the US right now,
and going up a-lot every year.
She has to pay Social Security,
and other taxes employers have to pay.

This is veering into very uncomfortable territory.  Unless a Team AFP member (past or present) wants to give a breakdown of what they're making, please do not make assumptions as to what people earn or if they have health insurance and other benefits.  I would be happy to share a breakdown of what I made working for Amanda, but at present I'm not at liberty to.

which is why i used assumptive language.  

any of the numbers could be higher or lower.
assume they and any 'facts' are educated guesses

the numbers are based on my knowledge of NYC, business, etc.
e.g. a number of my family run or have run businesses,
some in NYC
e.g i have been a manager in several businesses
with control over budgets
e.g i've been an active director in several non-profits,
with shared responsibilty for the large financial picture, fundraising, etc.
e.g. i took the core MBA courses as an undergrad at MIT
etc.

also based on things amanda has posted on her blog,
said in interviews, etc.

but i'm not an insider in team amanda,
so take the numbers as educated guesses
(if i was an insider, i probably wouldn't be saying anything at all.
 there is a lot of case law, regs, etc.
 that restrict what can be said by insiders about salaries, benefits, etc.)

i also note that the music business has it's own quirks,
and my knowledge there is not hands-on


another point of my post, that beth of all trades
quoted from is that:

amanda is juggling several goals in terms of her finances,
and just meeting any one of them is a challenge

[grahaminoz]

I hope Amanda can erase all negeative thoughts  during the next 8 hours and just do what she wants to do. I like this 'brainstorming' approach to creativity and hope to hear some interesting tracks. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Good vibes go to you all in the studio from my place in Oz.

[The Epigrammic Poultry]

I'm watching this mostly to gain an insight into how people like Amanda and Folds write and record.

[lentower]

I'm watching this mostly to gain an insight into how people like Amanda and Folds write and record.

it's certainly been an education

[indeciSEAN]

Psssst: I just posted as to how you can (a)win B.A.N.D. prizes or (b)tickets to tomorrow's show with AFP, Ben, Neil, and Damian: http://bit.ly/8IN8contest

[theseeker]

It's awesome. I hope it doesn't get shorter.

[MauraLeeBee]

Been watching the tweets, but can't watch the webcast (I have class and work tomorrow. Yes, I'm lame for having that be my reason ). I have to say that I'm a little excited, just because it's really not like anything I've heard of before. (But that's not to say anything Amanda does I would consider "typical" for most singers/writers these days). And you know what they say, Some work best under pressure.

It'll be very interested to see how this all turns out. I'm very optimistic about the whole thing. Even if there isn't a specific song that clings to me, it's still something really fun and awesome.

[PolitelyOffend]

I wasn't sure what to expect with this 8 songs in 8 hours project, and I was a bit skeptical but intrigued with the approach, and wow, the songs so far are impressive. The blog entry seems like it was a bit unnecessary just because this webcast speaks for itself. 4 talented people working their asses off and producing interesting and creative results. The Origami song is stuck in my head. So good.

[beth of all trades]

Amanda 'employs' six or more full time equivalents.
We know of indecision, Hayley, SuperKate, currently employed.
There are part or full time people beyond that doing:
merch, law, contracts, bookkeeping, accounting, income taxes,
booking, 'management', etc.

For those she pays directly, she has to pay a living wage.
(Amanda both cares about people,
and knows that if you don't give people enough $$ to live on,
they can't perform well for you).
That's in the $20,000 to $25,000 range in NY City,
and not much lower in the rest of the US.
Rent, food, and basic expenses.

I'm also pretty sure she's pays health insurance for
those she employs directly.
That's over $5,000 a year in the US right now,
and going up a-lot every year.
She has to pay Social Security,
and other taxes employers have to pay.

This is veering into very uncomfortable territory.  Unless a Team AFP member (past or present) wants to give a breakdown of what they're making, please do not make assumptions as to what people earn or if they have health insurance and other benefits.  I would be happy to share a breakdown of what I made working for Amanda, but at present I'm not at liberty to.

which is why i used assumptive language.  

any of the numbers could be higher or lower.
assume they and any 'facts' are educated guesses

Thank you for clarifying that Len. I just wanted to make sure that no one read your previous post and ended up internalizing inaccurate information.  The internet is funny that way--- once actual numbers become attached to a concept, many don't note/remember the part where you said it was an estimate rather than actual data.  

[indeciSEAN]

I'm watching this mostly to gain an insight into how people like Amanda and Folds write and record.

Thing is - and we talked about this about an hour before the webcast went live - this is new for everyone here (and thus not a wholly accurate insight as to how they normally function). Everyone's strengths and styles are hopefully going to blend together to create something awesome, but it's going to be as different as Amanda's songwriting process with Brian vs solo vs Brian with Trent Reznor. Every piece of the puzzle (who's here, where we are, what they've eaten, how much sleep they got, what the Twitter-insperation's like, etc) will weigh on it, and change the whole thing. Definitely not saying you can't get some insights, but I wouldn't take it as "the way" Amanda and Ben write.

[CeeGBee]

^^  Umm....  Is it possible to live on $25K in NYC?   Just wondering...

[The Epigrammic Poultry]

I'm watching this mostly to gain an insight into how people like Amanda and Folds write and record.

Thing is - and we talked about this about an hour before the webcast went live - this is new for everyone here (and thus not a wholly accurate insight as to how they normally function). Everyone's strengths and styles are hopefully going to blend together to create something awesome, but it's going to be as different as Amanda's songwriting process with Brian vs solo vs Brian with Trent Reznor. Every piece of the puzzle (who's here, where we are, what they've eaten, how much sleep they got, what the Twitter-insperation's like, etc) will weigh on it, and change the whole thing. Definitely not saying you can't get some insights, but I wouldn't take it as "the way" Amanda and Ben write.

Yeah, I get you. Either way it's still very interesting watching the dynamic between all involved and how the music develops.

[CeeGBee]

The bit I'm listening to right now reminds me rather of Kaledrina...  

....not sure exactly why, but it's a good thing.

[imaginary friend]

just tuned in about 90 seconds ago; major cool points for using an actual Melotron instead of a virtual version. 

#@!

[lentower]

^^  Umm....  Is it possible to live on $25K in NYC?   Just wondering...

define 'live'

[CeeGBee]

^^  Umm....  Is it possible to live on $25K in NYC?   Just wondering...

define 'live'

Food that you don't have to kill yourself, electric lights from inside your residence, running water when
it's not raining, and an absence of indoor-waterfall when it is raining, maybe indoor temperatures that
don't go above 100 degrees, or below 10 for more than a day or two at a time...

[indeciSEAN]

^^  Umm....  Is it possible to live on $25K in NYC?   Just wondering...

define 'live'

Food that you don't have to kill yourself, electric lights from inside your residence, running water when
it's not raining, and an absence of indoor-waterfall when it is raining, maybe indoor temperatures that
don't go above 100 degrees, or below 10 for more than a day or two at a time...

This is possible. Common, no. Easy? Nah. But doable? Totally.

[beth of all trades]

^^  Umm....  Is it possible to live on $25K in NYC?   Just wondering...

define 'live'

Food that you don't have to kill yourself, electric lights from inside your residence, running water when
it's not raining, and an absence of indoor-waterfall when it is raining, maybe indoor temperatures that
don't go above 100 degrees, or below 10 for more than a day or two at a time...

It is possible, but you'll end up living in a shared apartment in Rapeville and eating lots of Ramen.  (Or you gig on the side and keep your fingers crossed you'll make rent for your shared loft in Muggingtown where you eat lots of pasta.)  It's an expensive place to live, but it's home and I'd have a hard time leaving it.

In NYC, a single person can make up to $44,350 and still qualify for public housing.  I think that says a lot about the cost of living.

^^  Umm....  Is it possible to live on $25K in NYC?   Just wondering...

define 'live'

Food that you don't have to kill yourself, electric lights from inside your residence, running water when
it's not raining, and an absence of indoor-waterfall when it is raining, maybe indoor temperatures that
don't go above 100 degrees, or below 10 for more than a day or two at a time...

This is possible. Common, no. Easy? Nah. But doable? Totally.

You only say that because you'd view living in Rapetown as a plus.

[CeeGBee]

^^  Umm....  Is it possible to live on $25K in NYC?   Just wondering...

define 'live'

Food that you don't have to kill yourself, electric lights from inside your residence, running water when
it's not raining, and an absence of indoor-waterfall when it is raining, maybe indoor temperatures that
don't go above 100 degrees, or below 10 for more than a day or two at a time...

This is possible. Common, no. Easy? Nah. But doable? Totally.

You only say that because you'd view living in Rapetown as a plus.

Hey, a guy's gotta have a hobby, and if money's tight.... 

[Agonistes]

i have never in my life wanted to live in new york until just right now when i just heard it called rapetown.


i'm not sure why.

[lentower]

^^  Umm....  Is it possible to live on $25K in NYC?   Just wondering...

define 'live'

Food that you don't have to kill yourself, electric lights from inside your residence, running water when
it's not raining, and an absence of indoor-waterfall when it is raining, maybe indoor temperatures that
don't go above 100 degrees, or below 10 for more than a day or two at a time...

This is possible. Common, no. Easy? Nah. But doable? Totally.

You only say that because you'd view living in Rapetown as a plus.

ROtFL
best one in weeks

Cee:

you can have all but any two of those for $25,000/year ; - }

[theseeker]

i have never in my life wanted to live in new york until just right now when i just heard it called rapetown.


i'm not sure why.

[absynth aura]

I would love to live in new york, rapetown or no

[insignifikunt]

I'm really liking what I am hearing -- not about New York but the songs! 

[absynth aura]

6 in 12
That's still an impressive effort though.

[Pope Totalfrog]

6 in 12
That's still an impressive effort though.

Don't be sad. Be happy that four creative people went into a room for 12 hours and that all four are coming out relatively unscathed. Most of the artists I know would have been all stabby somewhere around the two hour mark.

[absynth aura]

6 in 12
That's still an impressive effort though.

Don't be sad. Be happy that four creative people went into a room for 12 hours and that all four are coming out relatively unscathed. Most of the artists I know would have been all stabby somewhere around the two hour mark.

This is true.
I'm not sad, to be honest, even with those 4 great minds, I thought 8 in 8 might have been a bit of a stretch.
It is fantastic that they all survived. The would would have been a darker place without those 4 minds.

[insignifikunt]

track list

1. nikola tesla
2. because the origami
3. one tiny thing
4. 12 line song
5. i'll be my mirror
6. the problem with saints

[The Angel Raliel]

I think it has proven that it takes an average of minimum of 2 hours to do a decent track .....I wonder if the guiness book of records can check if this is some sort of world record

[lentower]

I think it has proven that it takes an average of minimum of 2 hours to do a decent track .....I wonder if the guiness book of records can check if this is some sort of world record

B.A.N.D. (sic) or their team, should put in for
the record, and see what Guiness does
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/register/login.aspx


i wonder if two recording studios with
two sound engineers could lessen the time.
instrumentals in one, vocals in the other.
or odd songs in one, and even songs in the other.

the increase in communication effort,
and everyone going back and forth,
could negate the increase in efficiency


i also wonder if they did this a half dozen times,
if they couldn't lay a song down an hour.
practice could decrease the time.


it appears Neil can write several songs an hour ...

[RiverVox]

The album is up on bandcamp:

http://music.amandapalmer.net/album/nighty-night

The supergroup 8 In 8 will be on the conference livestream in a few minutes:

http://rethink-music.com/en/Streaming-Video/

[The Epigrammic Poultry]

Nikola Tesla is ball-crushingly awesome.

[Mark!]

listening. so far so good

[Agonistes]

Nikola Tesla is ball-crushingly awesome.

agreed.

[insignifikunt]

i am liking it very much so far!

[CeeGBee]

I'm really impressed by how good some of you are at backpedalling as soon as you realised Amanda was reading the thread.

Hey, I back-pedalled before Amanda demonstrated that she'd read the thread, and not just in case she read.


Anyhoo, I listened to about two hours last night, and I've decided I rather liked [unnamed title], but [other title]
sounded just like every other Ben Folds song that causes me to press [skip]...  I shall be interested to hear the
fully-processed product however, as I've discovered that while unadulterated Ben Folds doesn't really work for me,
it can be a very nice flavouring when applied sparingly to the work of other artists.

[Mark!]

finnished listening to it. love it. especially The Problem With Saints & Nikola Tesla.  

[imaginary friend]

track list

1. nikola tesla
2. because the origami
3. one tiny thing
4. 12 line song
5. i'll be my mirror
6. the problem with saints

is that the order in which they were done? i didn't see anything before 10:30 PM, and they were working on one song the whole 2 hours I was listening.

#@!

[insignifikunt]

track list

1. nikola tesla
2. because the origami
3. one tiny thing
4. 12 line song
5. i'll be my mirror
6. the problem with saints

is that the order in which they were done? i didn't see anything before 10:30 PM, and they were working on one song the whole 2 hours I was listening.

#@!

no i don't think so ... nikola tesla was definitely done first but I'm not sure after that

i am tempted to print the cover art and colour it in

[Agonistes]

no backpedaling here.  just saying i'd love another 'tediously produced' (for lack of a better phrase) album--from a fan perspective only, not from a logical or even practical standpoint-- doesn't diminish my admiration for seeing this one made, nor my enjoyment of the finished product.  if i can make bandcamp work today, that is; it's a little crowded at the moment for my poor, belabored isp.

even more than each individual song i found watching a group of artists collaborate, it gave me the incentive to also work.  i spent probably seven-eight out of the twelve hours at my drafting table, with a few video game breaks when the various track recording got redundant (they almost lost me on the 'woo-oo's,' as fun as it was to see them grinning and doing them.  it made my dog go and put a big nose print on the laptop screen to find out where the people having so much fun were.  he likes it when people woo at him).  i usually have a hard time motivating myself to work when i am alone, even with music or a movie playing, which is why i noticed how easily i was able to stay focused and on task with the laptop at my elbow.  i need to put a drafting table in a recording studio; so long as there was activity there, i'd be unstoppable.

i've always liked the broadcasts, however.  in my personal universe, i find more enjoyment from seeing people in motion and hearing what they have to say than from reading the blogs and twitters, which i guess make me feel like more of an outsider looking through a limited window.  i mean this in a very positive way, but i am not sure how to explain this any better.

anyway, i'm off to hear everything put together.

i am tempted to print the cover art and colour it in

awesome idea (i just saw the cover art).  would make a nifty contest...or something.

[trickster]

This was an amazing experience!!! 
I was lucky to watch live while Nicola Tesla was being created and when I woke up caught a part of The Problem With Saints too!
And here I am now, not even 24h later listening the final result.
I am so grateful for being able to witness this creative and radical procedure.

And now I have 6 studio songs to listen to? WOOOOOOOOOOOfuckingHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Amanda, Neil, Ben, Damian and everyone who helped in making this possible.
Also thank you to the people who worked on the background so we could have visual and audio access to this project.

 

[lentower]

I'm really impressed by how good some of you are at backpedalling as soon as you realised Amanda was reading the thread.

ROFL

a may not post her a lot anymore,
but she still reads here a lot

[insignifikunt]

This was an amazing experience!!! 
I was lucky to watch live while Nicola Tesla was being created and when I woke up caught a part of The Problem With Saints too!
And here I am now, not even 24h later listening the final result.
I am so grateful for being able to witness this creative and radical procedure.

And now I have 6 studio songs to listen to? WOOOOOOOOOOOfuckingHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Amanda, Neil, Ben, Damian and everyone who helped in making this possible.
Also thank you to the people who worked on the background so we could have visual and audio access to this project.

 

hehe when i woke up this morning they were an hour and a half into it -- i am about to go to bed now and I have already paid for and downloaded the tracks, listened to them twice and tweeted/facebooked about them. now i sleeeeeep

[trickster]

This was an amazing experience!!! 
I was lucky to watch live while Nicola Tesla was being created and when I woke up caught a part of The Problem With Saints too!
And here I am now, not even 24h later listening the final result.
I am so grateful for being able to witness this creative and radical procedure.

And now I have 6 studio songs to listen to? WOOOOOOOOOOOfuckingHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Amanda, Neil, Ben, Damian and everyone who helped in making this possible.
Also thank you to the people who worked on the background so we could have visual and audio access to this project.

 

hehe when i woke up this morning they were an hour and a half into it -- i am about to go to bed now and I have already paid for and downloaded the tracks, listened to them twice and tweeted/facebooked about them. now i sleeeeeep

I know! Isnt it amazing how people from different parts of the globe experienced this whole procedure?

I am now waiting to see if there will be a physical release of 8in8.
A 10" vinyl would be awesome! And maybe a DVD with the whole footage from the evening/night too!
 

[Agonistes]

oh, bandcamp, you so silly.


Bandcamp

…is offline for just a teensy, weensy moment. Please bear with us.
(Follow @bandcampstatus on Twitter for the latest updates.)

[insignifikunt]

This was an amazing experience!!! 
I was lucky to watch live while Nicola Tesla was being created and when I woke up caught a part of The Problem With Saints too!
And here I am now, not even 24h later listening the final result.
I am so grateful for being able to witness this creative and radical procedure.

And now I have 6 studio songs to listen to? WOOOOOOOOOOOfuckingHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Amanda, Neil, Ben, Damian and everyone who helped in making this possible.
Also thank you to the people who worked on the background so we could have visual and audio access to this project.

 

hehe when i woke up this morning they were an hour and a half into it -- i am about to go to bed now and I have already paid for and downloaded the tracks, listened to them twice and tweeted/facebooked about them. now i sleeeeeep

I know! Isnt it amazing how people from different parts of the globe experienced this whole procedure?

I am now waiting to see if there will be a physical release of 8in8.
A 10" vinyl would be awesome! And maybe a DVD with the whole footage from the evening/night too!
 

i don't think i'd buy it on vinyl. i wouldn't mind a burnt copy -- to keep with the instant release theme haha

[lentower]

summary:

9 artists & a team of support experts
got together to have FUN
and SHARED it with us

doesn't get much better!!!

[imaginary friend]

for anyone who may be in a position to know,

were the instruments on hand provided by the studio, or did the band bring their own gear?

who did the final mix?  update: went and read the entire 8in8 page (i just started the songs last time). Benny Grotto, ok.

will there be physical copies?

...just finished listening. my take: tesla and mirror are great. the vocals totally made saints. i could do without 1tt, but it doesn't suck.

bottom line: much better result than I expected.

#@!

[Zoe Amory]

Listened through the tracks earlier and thought they were awesome, especially Nikola Tesla! 

[lentower]

I'm really impressed by how good some of you are at backpedalling as soon as you realised Amanda was reading the thread.

ROFL

a may not post her a lot anymore,
but she still reads here a lot

^ answer is along the line of:
this is amanda's and brian's forum.
you should assume they read it

but amanda tweeted that she wanted input
about what hyperbot wrote, mostly against 8in8/6in12,
and pro + con about the project,
before she blogged about the issues

the tweet pointed people to this thread
on her forum

of course, she was going to read this thread!


she's done this,
point the twitterverse,
at a forum thread before.
sometimes for feedback.
sometimes 'casue the thread has info she feels shoub be shared.
sometimes ...


i don't twitter alot,
but read her tweets and a few others every few days

[benny grotto]

for anyone who may be in a position to know,

were the instruments on hand provided by the studio, or did the band bring their own gear?

who did the final mix?

will there be physical copies?

...just finished listening. my take: tesla and mirror are great. the vocals totally made saints. i could do without 1tt, but it doesn't suck.

bottom line: much better result than I expected.

#@!

Hi, I'm Benny Grotto; I engineered the 8 in 8 project yesterday/night/this morning.  Some instruments were provided by the studio (all keyboards, guitar/bass amps, tambourine), some were provided by me (acoustic guitar, some cymbals, my beloved Vox AC30 guitar amp), some by producer Sean Slade (the guitar and Omnichord used on "Mirror"), some by my friends http://www.facebook.com/TheHushNow (drums and a couple bass guitars), some by our friends http://www.facebook.com/thewandas (bass guitar), and some by the band members themselves (Damian brought a few guitars, a laptop rig, etc, Amanda brought various nick-nacks, Folds had some synths brought in, etc).

I did the "final mix", although I'm not sure I'd quite call it that.  I mixed as we went, so that by the time the guys finished recording a song, the mix was also complete.  No time to revisit anything!  We mixed to 1/2" tape, and dumped back into the Pro Tools sessions we were recording to.  The material was not mastered, however I did add some light limiting to bring the volume of the tracks up a bit.

Can't answer the rest of your questions, but I hope this was helpful. 

[imaginary friend]

thanks!

#@!

[theseeker]

I love how the album cover says "8 in 8."

I really really hope that there will be a physical copy. That's the only way I'd get it. :/

Also Neil has an awesome voice.

[My Two Innings]

Set out to write a 30-minute review of the album on my blog today.  It took an hour and a half!   

You're welcome to check it out if you like:  http://mytwoinnings.blogspot.com/2011/04/one-review-thirty-minutes.html

Huge props to the creative team, and to Mr. Slade, Mr. Grotto, and to others on the production team who pulled this off.  What a crunch!

[Pope Totalfrog]

bottom line: much better result than I expected.

#@!

It is. Also can Neil have a song on every album. I love The Problem With Saints.

[imaginary friend]

yeah, he rocked that fucker. I wonder if he's gotten a bit of the singing bug. far worse things could happen.

#@!

[Morpheus Laughing]

^ It was spoken wordy but that's OK.

Makes me think about how long a note has to be sustained to count as singing.

[lentower]

I'm watching this mostly to gain an insight into how people like Amanda and Folds write and record.

Thing is - and we talked about this about an hour before the webcast went live - this is new for everyone here (and thus not a wholly accurate insight as to how they normally function). Everyone's strengths and styles are hopefully going to blend together to create something awesome, but it's going to be as different as Amanda's songwriting process with Brian vs solo vs Brian with Trent Reznor. Every piece of the puzzle (who's here, where we are, what they've eaten, how much sleep they got, what the Twitter-insperation's like, etc) will weigh on it, and change the whole thing. Definitely not saying you can't get some insights, but I wouldn't take it as "the way" Amanda and Ben write.

sure, but it does give some insight into how they write,
and i expect,
more insight into how they record.

it's certainly a look at an album being made by real artists in a real
recording studio.
sure, the nuances will be different,
based on all the variables indecision mentions,
but for an outsider it gives alot of the story.

[Morpheus Laughing]

I'm watching this mostly to gain an insight into how people like Amanda and Folds write and record.

Thing is - and we talked about this about an hour before the webcast went live - this is new for everyone here (and thus not a wholly accurate insight as to how they normally function). Everyone's strengths and styles are hopefully going to blend together to create something awesome, but it's going to be as different as Amanda's songwriting process with Brian vs solo vs Brian with Trent Reznor. Every piece of the puzzle (who's here, where we are, what they've eaten, how much sleep they got, what the Twitter-insperation's like, etc) will weigh on it, and change the whole thing. Definitely not saying you can't get some insights, but I wouldn't take it as "the way" Amanda and Ben write.

sure, but it does give some insight into how they write,
and i expect,
more insight into how they record.

it's certainly a look at an album being made by real artists in a real
recording studio.
sure, the nuances will be different,
based on all the variables indecision mentions,
but for an outsider it gives alot of the story.

I've seen some of the stuff that happens as an observer of this process (and as a participant) and I'll say that what happened is not a bad snapshot. The main problem is that it is rarely as civil (although it can be if you've prepared but that means you've already written the stuff). What we saw was a good example of how things can go if you just want to do what they did. If you're thinking long term, there are probably going to be big creative disputes. Maybe we shouldn't think too long term eh?... But seriously - Musicians "date" other musicians so that they can figure out who they want to work with... ( you could call it auditioning but - it is often informal when you're starting out)

[Morpheus Laughing]

Interesting point raised on twitter (albeit 2 hours ago)...Creative commons.

Creative commons (or something similar) is going to be a necessary consideration for musicians offering free content. This is even more problematic if there is going to be a New-Zealand-like clamp down elsewhere in the future.   

[lentower]

Interesting point raised on twitter (albeit 2 hours ago)...Creative commons.

Creative commons (or something similar) is going to be a necessary consideration for musicians offering free content. This is even more problematic if there is going to be a New-Zealand-like clamp down elsewhere in the future.   

Agreed.  Let's hope team amanda comes on board

[yosmark]

I feel deceived by the lack of references to electromagnetism theory in the song Nikola Tesla.  :'(

Such a downer  :'(

[Agonistes]

I'm watching this mostly to gain an insight into how people like Amanda and Folds write and record.

Thing is - and we talked about this about an hour before the webcast went live - this is new for everyone here (and thus not a wholly accurate insight as to how they normally function). Everyone's strengths and styles are hopefully going to blend together to create something awesome, but it's going to be as different as Amanda's songwriting process with Brian vs solo vs Brian with Trent Reznor. Every piece of the puzzle (who's here, where we are, what they've eaten, how much sleep they got, what the Twitter-insperation's like, etc) will weigh on it, and change the whole thing. Definitely not saying you can't get some insights, but I wouldn't take it as "the way" Amanda and Ben write.

sure, but it does give some insight into how they write,
and i expect,
more insight into how they record.

it's certainly a look at an album being made by real artists in a real
recording studio.
sure, the nuances will be different,
based on all the variables indecision mentions,
but for an outsider it gives alot of the story.

I've seen some of the stuff that happens as an observer of this process (and as a participant) and I'll say that what happened is not a bad snapshot. The main problem is that it is rarely as civil (although it can be if you've prepared but that means you've already written the stuff). What we saw was a good example of how things can go if you just want to do what they did. If you're thinking long term, there are probably going to be big creative disputes. Maybe we shouldn't think too long term eh?... But seriously - Musicians "date" other musicians so that they can figure out who they want to work with... ( you could call it auditioning but - it is often informal when you're starting out)

you've touched on an interesting philosophy.  if musicians, let's just say famous ones because it is easier than trying to define what i mean by 'fame', move on from the constraints of 'band' or 'solo' artists, it really takes a lot of the genre out of what they do.  it seems like in general in popular music, the band defined itself by one style of music, whereas once the band had creative differences and split up, one or two of the members would carry on with a different sort of style, or new and more varied talents would be revealed.

it's kind of like in this kind of case the band defining the genre, instead of the band having to exist within the genre, and therefore being defined by the genre.

I feel deceived by the lack of references to electromagnetism theory in the song Nikola Tesla.  :'(

Such a downer  :'(

maybe it's because 'electromagnetism' would be really hard to work into a rhyme scheme?  that is a lot of syllables.

[lentower]

Interesting point raised on twitter (albeit 2 hours ago)...Creative commons.

Creative commons (or something similar) is going to be a necessary consideration for musicians offering free content. This is even more problematic if there is going to be a New-Zealand-like clamp down elsewhere in the future.   

Agreed.  Let's hope team amanda comes on board

http://music.amandapalmer.net/album/nighty-night
now saids
This project is Creative Commons BY-NC. For more info, please visit
creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/

and
Initial proceeds from download-donations are going to
berkleecitymusicnetwork.org - a charity which provides kids with every
opportunity to see their musical potential.

DOUBLE WIN!!

[lentower]

I feel deceived by the lack of references to electromagnetism theory in the song Nikola Tesla.  :'(

Such a downer  :'(

maybe it's because 'electromagnetism' would be really hard to work into a rhyme scheme?  that is a lot of syllables.

split it into electro and magnetism
or electricty and magnetic
and go from there!

the lyricist could play off each term against the other


Neil more a science fantasy author than
hard sci-fi ...

[lentower]

Neil had to sing The Problem with Saints.

Not just that it includes the British idiom hols.

Not just that it's an Englishperson speaking.

But the whole story is classic eyrie Gaiman!

He could have set it on 'hols' in France though,
instead of an English park ...

[Agonistes]

I feel deceived by the lack of references to electromagnetism theory in the song Nikola Tesla.  :'(

Such a downer  :'(

maybe it's because 'electromagnetism' would be really hard to work into a rhyme scheme?  that is a lot of syllables.

split it into electro and magnetism
or electricty and magnetic
and go from there!

the lyricist could play off each term against the other


Neil more a science fantasy author than
hard sci-fi ...

hm.  i'm still hard pressed to find a rhyme for 'magnetism' or 'magnetic.'

[lentower]

phonetic

communism

both come to mind quickly

[The Angel Raliel]

BTW there is a hinty on twitter that videos for these songs would be appreciated.....may attempt a paper puppet version of The Trouble With Saints....which btw HAS to be set in England to make sense....

[lentower]

....which btw HAS to be set in England to make sense....

as written yes,
but his Saint Joan would be even more incensed by English on French soil

look forward to all future art from you!

[lentower]

AFPwire just tweeted that 8in8 lyrics have been added to
the bandcamp web pages

[CeeGBee]

...but his Saint Joan would be even more incensed by English on French soil

...and doubtless you would suffer mightily for Anglicizing her name....     (There's no specifically-female angry-face emoticon)

[Agonistes]

phonetic

communism

both come to mind quickly

they end the same, but they don't fall on the ear right, to me at least.  but then, i am not anywhere near to being a lyricist.

[lentower]

earlier evidence that neil can sing

http://soundcloud.com/fongolia/you-dont-know-me-wkap-mix

[yosmark]

I feel deceived by the lack of references to electromagnetism theory in the song Nikola Tesla.  :'(

Such a downer  :'(

maybe it's because 'electromagnetism' would be really hard to work into a rhyme scheme?  that is a lot of syllables.

split it into electro and magnetism
or electricty and magnetic
and go from there!

the lyricist could play off each term against the other

And Laplace? 

[absynth aura]

Finally got a chance to listen. And I'm extremely impressed. Never in a bazillion years could I have come up with something like this in 12 hours.

[lentower]

it's cool than neil has joined the songwriters,

he even has a folder of unfinished,
perhaps never to be finished, songs!

[lentower]

phonetic

communism

both come to mind quickly

they end the same, but they don't fall on the ear right, to me at least.  but then, i am not anywhere near to being a lyricist.

they each also have the same number of
syllables as the rhyme target

if i can come up with those in 30 seconds,
there are probably others

and neil might even be able to make
   electromagnetism
work

[jupiter or japan]

Good stuff. I love hearing Ben and Amanda trading verses. That is something that should happen more often.

[Mister Sahara]

i wish there was a chance they'd put up all the lyrics from the unfinished songs (kissing song...) so we musiciany people could try our hands at them...that would be so much fun. especially since i'm inspired now but don't have any videomaking skills 

[insignifikunt]

i wish there was a chance they'd put up all the lyrics from the unfinished songs (kissing song...) so we musiciany people could try our hands at them...that would be so much fun. especially since i'm inspired now but don't have any videomaking skills 

i think that would be kinda awesome as well!!! then it would be collaboration on a whole new level!

[RiverVox]

People are making videos and recording versions of the songs, including some in other languages! Most of this is on twitter, but hopefully someone will gather it all. Creativity is Contagious.

[Musings]

techno pragmatism

Unfortunately, haven't had time to listen to the whole thing carefully -- but I liked all songs with the lyric "tiny" in them, and of course, the one Neil sang on them. 

I really, really wanted to like "Nikola Tesla" more than I did, especially after other people talked about it.  Maybe it's a grower.

[lentower]

i wish there was a chance they'd put up all the lyrics from the unfinished songs (kissing song...) so we musiciany people could try our hands at them...that would be so much fun. especially since i'm inspired now but don't have any videomaking skills  

i think that would be kinda awesome as well!!! then it would be collaboration on a whole new level!

tweet amanda!  add #8in8

[CeeGBee]

i wish there was a chance they'd put up all the lyrics from the unfinished songs (kissing song...) so we musiciany people could try our hands at them...that would be so much fun. especially since i'm inspired now but don't have any videomaking skills  

i think that would be kinda awesome as well!!! then it would be collaboration on a whole new level!

tweet amanda!  add #8in8

They're saving that material for disc 5 of the boxed-set...

[Agonistes]

phonetic

communism

both come to mind quickly

they end the same, but they don't fall on the ear right, to me at least.  but then, i am not anywhere near to being a lyricist.

they each also have the same number of
syllables as the rhyme target

if i can come up with those in 30 seconds,
there are probably others

and neil might even be able to make
   electromagnetism
work

whatever, len, you're all kinds of awesome for coming up with words, ok?  i was just speculating, half humorously, in the first place, because yosmark made a joke about it.  didn't mean to make a big dissection or discussion over it; the song is awesome all on its own without any help from either of us, but you just won't let me make a concluding statement on the subject, goddamn.  i mean, it's not inconceivable that a seven-syllable word might not flow so evenly in such a chanty, catchy flow of lyrics in the first place, but since you insist it is such child's play, maybe take it up with the authors of the song and not me, who was just trying to participate in a little humor.  not trying to fuss at you, but jeez, man, just let it go, it was meant to be rhetorical, not any kind of statement of Absolute Fact that you needed to prove wrong or refute.

also while i'm not sure what you're trying to explain to me, i'll mention that words don't have to have the same number of syllables or even the same ending to rhyme.  a phrase of three or four words can, of course, rhyme with one if they sound right.  just sayin.

[lentower]

phonetic

communism

both come to mind quickly

they end the same, but they don't fall on the ear right, to me at least.  but then, i am not anywhere near to being a lyricist.

they each also have the same number of
syllables as the rhyme target

if i can come up with those in 30 seconds,
there are probably others

and neil might even be able to make
   electromagnetism
work

whatever, len, you're all kinds of awesome for coming up with words, ok?  i was just speculating, half humorously, in the first place, because yosmark made a joke about it.  didn't mean to make a big dissection over it; the song is awesome all on its own.  i mean, it's not inconceivable that a seven-syllable word might not flow so evenly in such a chanty, catchy flow of lyrics in the first place, but since you insist it is such child's play, maybe take it up with the authors of the song and not me, who was just trying to participate in a little humor.  not trying to fuss at you, but jeez, man, just let it go, it was RHETORICAL in the first place, for fuck's sake.

also while i'm not sure what you're trying to explain to me, i'll mention that words don't have to have the same number of syllables to rhyme.  a phrase of three or four words can, of course, rhyme with one if they sound right.  just sayin.

apologies for exploring the possibilities

[Agonistes]

phonetic

communism

both come to mind quickly

they end the same, but they don't fall on the ear right, to me at least.  but then, i am not anywhere near to being a lyricist.

they each also have the same number of
syllables as the rhyme target

if i can come up with those in 30 seconds,
there are probably others

and neil might even be able to make
   electromagnetism
work

whatever, len, you're all kinds of awesome for coming up with words, ok?  i was just speculating, half humorously, in the first place, because yosmark made a joke about it.  didn't mean to make a big dissection over it; the song is awesome all on its own.  i mean, it's not inconceivable that a seven-syllable word might not flow so evenly in such a chanty, catchy flow of lyrics in the first place, but since you insist it is such child's play, maybe take it up with the authors of the song and not me, who was just trying to participate in a little humor.  not trying to fuss at you, but jeez, man, just let it go, it was RHETORICAL in the first place, for fuck's sake.

also while i'm not sure what you're trying to explain to me, i'll mention that words don't have to have the same number of syllables to rhyme.  a phrase of three or four words can, of course, rhyme with one if they sound right.  just sayin.

apologies for exploring the possibilities

exploring possibilities is fine; len, it just felt argumentative.   granted i am a little touchy these days, what with all this death and destruction round these parts, but really, it's an uncomfortable subject, picking apart lyrics/criticism, and i didn't want either of us to come across as critical in the extreme.

[CeeGBee]

NPR: ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.....

They must be successful, they're on the radio.....   

[Hayley Fiasco!]

If any one is interested, i just uploaded a youtube playlist of the band playing the 8 in 8 songs live at berklee performance center:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=64F5204257AC61C1

techno pragmatism

Unfortunately, haven't had time to listen to the whole thing carefully -- but I liked all songs with the lyric "tiny" in them, and of course, the one Neil sang on them. 

I really, really wanted to like "Nikola Tesla" more than I did, especially after other people talked about it.  Maybe it's a grower.

Nikola Tesla definitely grew on me. I didn't care for it much when I first heard it, but now I find pieces of it getting stuck in my head.

One Tiny Thing is my favorite, in part because it's so catchy (all of these songs are) and because I really dig the way they incorporated the different keyboards and the two rhythms. This is the "single" and I've watched the reactions of groups of people the first time they heard this song (at the studio listening "party" when they wrapped recording, at the rethink panel and at the rethink concert) and INSTANTLY people tap their feet and bob their head at it.

[theseeker]

"One Tiny Thing" is actually my least favorite. Not sure why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgj4zl-ITvE&feature=autoplay&list=PL64F5204257AC61C1&index=2&playnext=1 Would have epic with a kazoo :3

[Anamorphosis]

I wasn't sure what I was going to think about it. I have some friends who have made their best songs at a collective musician's camp that forces the musicians to write their songs in about an hour and then preform them the next day. It helps to shove past that huge censoring animal that lurks inside and wants to eat our art before we let it out.
And I do like some of the songs that came out. I like the Tesla song. Maybe because I have already had a thing for the guy since I heard Laurie Anderson's song about Tesla and Edison and then read the awesome biography on him. Also, I like the song Niel sang and the One Tiny Thing song. The others will maybe grow on me more later. Or not.
I do like the whole postmodern (to me) concept of having the twitter audience collaborating in the song writing process with a group of artists. It seems very active and almost overwhelming.
I'm curious about the first kiss song. My first kiss with my husband was with me painted blue in a silver bikini in a death trap being menaced by my future husband who was dressed as the Cat Woman. We actually have a photo of it because we were supposed to be doing photography at the time. I'm a sap about stuff like that and would like to hear all of the kisses put forth on twitter cut up and rearranged and strewn along in a big sound collage.

[jupiter or japan]

If any one is interested, i just uploaded a youtube playlist of the band playing the 8 in 8 songs live at berklee performance center:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=64F5204257AC61C1

Watching this makes me think that it would be a damn shame if they didn't play more shows and record more music. Chemistry is just sparking off these people.

[lentower]

If any one is interested, i just uploaded a youtube playlist of the band playing the 8 in 8 songs live at berklee performance center:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=64F5204257AC61C1

Watching this makes me think that it would be a damn shame if they didn't play more shows and record more music. Chemistry is just sparking off these people.

they are/were awesome with one another

i suspect this also happens when they get together
with other like-minded musicians

it usually does with amanda

[My Two Innings]

Just discovered that "Twelve Line Song" isn't the first Ben Folds song with a squirrel reference...

Heh heh heh...that'll send everyone scrambling to YouTube!

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

i tried to listen to it but couldn't get through it all. what i heard was boring, uncompelling, and musically not what i enjoy. i don't know. i don't think it was "bad." but i certainly would not want it to ever happen again. i unfortunately have no reason to believe that it won't. this post is pointless and adds little or nothing to whatever's being discussed but yeah. that's what i'm thinking.

[imaginary friend]

if that's how you feel, then it's not pointless.

#@!

[Niels]

I like the concept, but I don't like the music. At all.

[CaffeinatedCassadie]

I like the concept, but I don't like the music. At all.

I completely agree.
It could have been good.
but I don't like it.

[Hayley Fiasco!]

I like the concept, but I don't like the music. At all.

I completely agree.
It could have been good.
but I don't like it.

"Could have been good"?

How? Why?
How is it not good, why is it not etc.?


it may just be the way you worded it unintentionally, but it sounds like you saw potential and you don't think the potential was reached and I'm curious as to why or how the end result, the 6 songs they finished, didn't meet your expectations or standards for it to have been good?


Personally, I'm happy with the songs, they are all so darn catchy and singable. Simple, as byproduct to how quickly they were written no doubt, but still meaningful and sad and funny in just the right places. These songs are more like demos than they are like completed album tracks (given at how fast they written and immediately tracked with no room for tweaking and adjustment the way you would make a track to your liking if ot didn't have such a finite schedule)

[CaffeinatedCassadie]

I like the concept, but I don't like the music. At all.

I completely agree.
It could have been good.
but I don't like it.

"Could have been good"?

How? Why?
How is it not good, why is it not etc.?


it may just be the way you worded it unintentionally, but it sounds like you saw potential and you don't think the potential was reached and I'm curious as to why or how the end result, the 6 songs they finished, didn't meet your expectations or standards for it to have been good?


Personally, I'm happy with the songs, they are all so darn catchy and singable. Simple, as byproduct to how quickly they were written no doubt, but still meaningful and sad and funny in just the right places. These songs are more like demos than they are like completed album tracks (given at how fast they written and immediately tracked with no room for tweaking and adjustment the way you would make a track to your liking if ot didn't have such a finite schedule)

"catchy and singable" To me, that screams gimmicky, not serious, not well thought out (yeah, I do think you can come up with better songs in the time allotted) and not able to stand the test of time. As you have seen on here, many people want a return of A's older, serious, REAL music with REAL lyrics and no more painful collaborations. To me, the project would have been a success if their was ever 1 song that was capable of grasping my musical attention with lyrics that make me think and feel and just have more overall depth.

In all honestly, the only song I can even remember the chorus from at all is Nikola Tesla. That is not a good thing. I had a glimmer of hope when I heard about this project that some beautiful music would come out of it and it just didn't happen in my opinion.

I almost think that it would have produced more memorable songs if it were just Amanda (obviously this would not be very press worthy. ben folds and Neil instantly make something more popular if their involved I'm assuming).

I know a lost of people are going to disagree, but hey, whatever, that's okay.
Oh and sorry if I don't make any sense. I'm tired.

[Hayley Fiasco!]

I like the concept, but I don't like the music. At all.

I completely agree.
It could have been good.
but I don't like it.

"Could have been good"?

How? Why?
How is it not good, why is it not etc.?


it may just be the way you worded it unintentionally, but it sounds like you saw potential and you don't think the potential was reached and I'm curious as to why or how the end result, the 6 songs they finished, didn't meet your expectations or standards for it to have been good?


Personally, I'm happy with the songs, they are all so darn catchy and singable. Simple, as byproduct to how quickly they were written no doubt, but still meaningful and sad and funny in just the right places. These songs are more like demos than they are like completed album tracks (given at how fast they written and immediately tracked with no room for tweaking and adjustment the way you would make a track to your liking if ot didn't have such a finite schedule)

"catchy and singable" To me, that screams gimmicky, not serious, not well thought out (yeah, I do think you can come up with better songs in the time allotted) and not able to stand the test of time. As you have seen on here, many people want a return of A's older, serious, REAL music with REAL lyrics and no more painful collaborations. To me, the project would have been a success if their was ever 1 song that was capable of grasping my musical attention with lyrics that make me think and feel and just have more overall depth.

In all honestly, the only song I can even remember the chorus from at all is Nikola Tesla. That is not a good thing. I had a glimmer of hope when I heard about this project that some beautiful music would come out of it and it just didn't happen in my opinion.

I almost think that it would have produced more memorable songs if it were just Amanda (obviously this would not be very press worthy. ben folds and Neil instantly make something more popular if their involved I'm assuming).

I know a lost of people are going to disagree, but hey, whatever, that's okay.
Oh and sorry if I don't make any sense. I'm tired.

Coin-Operated Boy is catchy and singable - but that doesn't mean the song itself lacks substance and depth.

I'm really shocked that you think they could "come up with better songs in the time allotted" - considering that they didn't meet the deadline they set for themselves (they went over 4 hours and they were two songs shy of their goal). This is totally your opinion and that's fine, you don't have to like this project, it just seems... strange to compare it to other things. These songs were totally and utterly a collaboration, not only between Amanda and the other artists, but with their fans (every song except I'll Be My Mirror was written from a suggestion or inspired by something a fan wrote in to the group during the recording session).

I think you have to compare these songs to... well, each other. These are serious songs, these are real music - granted they would be better crafted if they had the chance to grow, but being immediately recorded and inviting people to watch the process of writing and recording is actually beautiful in and of itself.

There was a 7th song that was written but wasn't recorded. It is documented through Amanda's twitter feed where she was asking people for lyric suggestions towards a theme she had. I was sitting in the room with her when she began writing... but then she left and started writing in solitude, though she tweeted and i joined in and offered my suggestions. They didn't get the chance to record that song but I really wished that they did. The theme was about loneliness, in such a way that so many people had so much to say even before the song was... well, written (I base this off of reading the feed of suggestions). That is real art, that is real power, to write something that people understand in the most sincerest of ways.


This was a specific project with specific parameters. To think that they went into the studio at 4pm without a single lyric or note written and then sat down on a couch at 4am to listen to the fruit of their day's labor is stunning to me.

One Tiny Thing is about love going wrong, the quote it is based off of is in response to Neil's question "ways in which love goes wrong"...

"Like an avalanche, one tiny thing out of place"

How beautiful is that imagery? One small thing yields a suffocating sheet of things that are not right.

The lyrics are simple, and I'm sure they can be interpreted different ways, but you have to kind of... go in with an open mind. If you are bummed that this isn't a year long recording effort by Amanda (ala WKAP) that from the get go, whether it's subconscious or conscious, you're set up to view this songs with a critical view that may be unfair, you have to view it for what it is. And to me- these 6 songs are potential buds, they may not get the chance to blossom but I feel so damn great to have been able to taste the fruit even before it ripened.

This whole thing wasn't about press, and to be honest with you - the feedback coming in (that I've seen) has mostly been fan reactions (fan's of neil's, OK Go, amanda and Ben's) and not so much "omg industry look what these fancy people did". People are being inspired to create their own art - which I think is so rewarding and beautiful to see on it's own. Search youtube and you'll see half a dozen videos for The Problem With Saints, and covers of these songs and so on.


Anyway, to wrap this up - I understand what you are saying  - and while I do not agree with you, I appreciate you having this discussion with me and letting me air my point of view (by countering or commenting on your opinion). This was a fun project - exhausting - but FUN for everyone involved. The band walked away from this knowing that it wasn't 100% (there were things they wanted to change but didn't get the chance to, or things they would have done differently) but they were proud with what they accomplished, and it really is remarkable to see how inspired and how much positive feedback has been coming in. with that being said, of course there are people like you (and others in this thread) who are not impressed - and that's okay.

[The Angel Raliel]

...also interestingly Tesla sounds very much like a classic DD song as it is......so all those that wanted that sound...here it is....Origami is more AfP sounding and Saints is wonderfully classic british humourous song in the vein of dudley moore etc
personally, considering the time constraints and the immediacy of the writing....i would challenge anyone to do better......(if anyone DOES then excellent)

[jupiter or japan]

I have been very inspired by this project. These are quality songs, and had someone told me that they were written and recorded in a "normal" way, I wouldn't bat an eye. The sound is great, the songs are great and the performances are inspired and immediate (the way rock music should be imo).

I have been having a major case of writer's block since I went on meds for depression. I am fighting my way out of it by trying to follow the model of this project. I am two songs into the writing phase. I plan on spending six hours writing and two hours recording 12 string guitar and vocals and maybe a few overdubs. I have to take a break to work (fucking bills to pay, in the way of having my play...),  but any free time the clock starts ticking. Whatever I come up with gets put on my bandcamp page tomorrow. Fuck it. Life is short. Create hard.

[imaginary friend]

I have been very inspired by this project. These are quality songs, and had someone told me that they were written and recorded in a "normal" way, I wouldn't bat an eye. The sound is great, the songs are great and the performances are inspired and immediate (the way rock music should be imo).

I have been having a major case of writer's block since I went on meds for depression. I am fighting my way out of it by trying to follow the model of this project. I am two songs into the writing phase. I plan on spending six hours writing and two hours recording 12 string guitar and vocals and maybe a few overdubs. I have to take a break to work (fucking bills to pay, in the way of having my play...),  but any free time the clock starts ticking. Whatever I come up with gets put on my bandcamp page tomorrow. Fuck it. Life is short. Create hard.

i like that.

#@!

[CaffeinatedCassadie]

I like the concept, but I don't like the music. At all.

I completely agree.
It could have been good.
but I don't like it.

"Could have been good"?

How? Why?
How is it not good, why is it not etc.?


it may just be the way you worded it unintentionally, but it sounds like you saw potential and you don't think the potential was reached and I'm curious as to why or how the end result, the 6 songs they finished, didn't meet your expectations or standards for it to have been good?


Personally, I'm happy with the songs, they are all so darn catchy and singable. Simple, as byproduct to how quickly they were written no doubt, but still meaningful and sad and funny in just the right places. These songs are more like demos than they are like completed album tracks (given at how fast they written and immediately tracked with no room for tweaking and adjustment the way you would make a track to your liking if ot didn't have such a finite schedule)

"catchy and singable" To me, that screams gimmicky, not serious, not well thought out (yeah, I do think you can come up with better songs in the time allotted) and not able to stand the test of time. As you have seen on here, many people want a return of A's older, serious, REAL music with REAL lyrics and no more painful collaborations. To me, the project would have been a success if their was ever 1 song that was capable of grasping my musical attention with lyrics that make me think and feel and just have more overall depth.

In all honestly, the only song I can even remember the chorus from at all is Nikola Tesla. That is not a good thing. I had a glimmer of hope when I heard about this project that some beautiful music would come out of it and it just didn't happen in my opinion.

I almost think that it would have produced more memorable songs if it were just Amanda (obviously this would not be very press worthy. ben folds and Neil instantly make something more popular if their involved I'm assuming).

I know a lost of people are going to disagree, but hey, whatever, that's okay.
Oh and sorry if I don't make any sense. I'm tired.

Coin-Operated Boy is catchy and singable - but that doesn't mean the song itself lacks substance and depth.

I'm really shocked that you think they could "come up with better songs in the time allotted" - considering that they didn't meet the deadline they set for themselves (they went over 4 hours and they were two songs shy of their goal). This is totally your opinion and that's fine, you don't have to like this project, it just seems... strange to compare it to other things. These songs were totally and utterly a collaboration, not only between Amanda and the other artists, but with their fans (every song except I'll Be My Mirror was written from a suggestion or inspired by something a fan wrote in to the group during the recording session).

I think you have to compare these songs to... well, each other. These are serious songs, these are real music - granted they would be better crafted if they had the chance to grow, but being immediately recorded and inviting people to watch the process of writing and recording is actually beautiful in and of itself.

There was a 7th song that was written but wasn't recorded. It is documented through Amanda's twitter feed where she was asking people for lyric suggestions towards a theme she had. I was sitting in the room with her when she began writing... but then she left and started writing in solitude, though she tweeted and i joined in and offered my suggestions. They didn't get the chance to record that song but I really wished that they did. The theme was about loneliness, in such a way that so many people had so much to say even before the song was... well, written (I base this off of reading the feed of suggestions). That is real art, that is real power, to write something that people understand in the most sincerest of ways.


This was a specific project with specific parameters. To think that they went into the studio at 4pm without a single lyric or note written and then sat down on a couch at 4am to listen to the fruit of their day's labor is stunning to me.

One Tiny Thing is about love going wrong, the quote it is based off of is in response to Neil's question "ways in which love goes wrong"...

"Like an avalanche, one tiny thing out of place"

How beautiful is that imagery? One small thing yields a suffocating sheet of things that are not right.

The lyrics are simple, and I'm sure they can be interpreted different ways, but you have to kind of... go in with an open mind. If you are bummed that this isn't a year long recording effort by Amanda (ala WKAP) that from the get go, whether it's subconscious or conscious, you're set up to view this songs with a critical view that may be unfair, you have to view it for what it is. And to me- these 6 songs are potential buds, they may not get the chance to blossom but I feel so damn great to have been able to taste the fruit even before it ripened.

This whole thing wasn't about press, and to be honest with you - the feedback coming in (that I've seen) has mostly been fan reactions (fan's of neil's, OK Go, amanda and Ben's) and not so much "omg industry look what these fancy people did". People are being inspired to create their own art - which I think is so rewarding and beautiful to see on it's own. Search youtube and you'll see half a dozen videos for The Problem With Saints, and covers of these songs and so on.


Anyway, to wrap this up - I understand what you are saying  - and while I do not agree with you, I appreciate you having this discussion with me and letting me air my point of view (by countering or commenting on your opinion). This was a fun project - exhausting - but FUN for everyone involved. The band walked away from this knowing that it wasn't 100% (there were things they wanted to change but didn't get the chance to, or things they would have done differently) but they were proud with what they accomplished, and it really is remarkable to see how inspired and how much positive feedback has been coming in. with that being said, of course there are people like you (and others in this thread) who are not impressed - and that's okay.

One last point from me is that I would have rather them not set a goal for a number of songs or even trying to make an album. I think more developed lyrics and music would have come out of it and it would have been more enjoyable and more artistically satisfying for those involved, even if only 2 or 3 songs were written. I guess I'm trying to say quality not quantity.

[Hayley Fiasco!]

One last point from me is that I would have rather them not set a goal for a number of songs or even trying to make an album. I think more developed lyrics and music would have come out of it and it would have been more enjoyable and more artistically satisfying for those involved, even if only 2 or 3 songs were written. I guess I'm trying to say quality not quantity.

which is precisely why they stopped at 6 (they could have added two filler songs to meet their goal but decided against that route).

I've thought about this too - what if they spent 8 hours in the studio without the timeline/ambitious goal of 8 songs. Ultimately, I think the pressure to reach 8 is what inspired them to write, otherwise they quite possibly could have been so picky that they wouldn't have even finished one song. But maybe you would have like that one song better than the 6 that they did write, who's to tell.

It was great to see Amanda in a recording studio hammering at a piano and doing vocal takes... i wonder if it left her inspired to WRITE more music, after the fact. I know she has songs already written that she wants to record... but I'm curious to see if this has inspired her (and even the others) to write new material of their own.

[Morpheus Laughing]

Not sure what I’ve already said about this but…

This project did what it said on the tin (close enough) & it’s never a bad thing to be in a creative environment with different ideas floating about. I think Damian said that it’s the final 10% of any of his songs that take the most time to come to fruition and that sounds about right to me. That final 10% of the time is probably not going to be very interesting viewing because it’s either going to involve quite a bit of subconscious idea  percolation or a lot of subtle perfectionist tweaking that will drive most people insane. It seems sensible to stick to the "spontaneous stage" if you want to broadcast anything of the creative process.   I also think that there is plenty to learn/absorb from the experience - especially about the way musical ideas might be selected (even at the twitter stage you could see selectivity coming into play).

There’s also the issue of people not liking the project for what it intended to do. I obviously can’t speak for 8in8 but I’m aware that preferences that are pushed aside for the sake of a collaboration can & do inspire future creativity. These kinds of sessions are very good for that kind of idea generation. Kept or discarded ideas from the night are all up for reinterpretation… I think AFP implied that she had rediscovered what she could achieve by subscribing to the restraints of 8in8 and that can only be a good thing for her and her fans. Ie. Who can’t learn from self-imposed discipline?

Finally, some but not all people are inevitably going to be interested in acquiring the results of such a documented process (either as a gesture of support, a memento, out of appreciation of the result, or for the charitable cause).  It would be a tease not to make the material available when it is relatively straightforward to do so.

[Andy Pants]

I like the concept, but I don't like the music. At all.

I completely agree.
It could have been good.
but I don't like it.

"Could have been good"?

How? Why?
How is it not good, why is it not etc.?


it may just be the way you worded it unintentionally, but it sounds like you saw potential and you don't think the potential was reached and I'm curious as to why or how the end result, the 6 songs they finished, didn't meet your expectations or standards for it to have been good?


Personally, I'm happy with the songs, they are all so darn catchy and singable. Simple, as byproduct to how quickly they were written no doubt, but still meaningful and sad and funny in just the right places. These songs are more like demos than they are like completed album tracks (given at how fast they written and immediately tracked with no room for tweaking and adjustment the way you would make a track to your liking if ot didn't have such a finite schedule)

"catchy and singable" To me, that screams gimmicky, not serious, not well thought out (yeah, I do think you can come up with better songs in the time allotted) and not able to stand the test of time. As you have seen on here, many people want a return of A's older, serious, REAL music with REAL lyrics and no more painful collaborations. To me, the project would have been a success if their was ever 1 song that was capable of grasping my musical attention with lyrics that make me think and feel and just have more overall depth.

In all honestly, the only song I can even remember the chorus from at all is Nikola Tesla. That is not a good thing. I had a glimmer of hope when I heard about this project that some beautiful music would come out of it and it just didn't happen in my opinion.

I almost think that it would have produced more memorable songs if it were just Amanda (obviously this would not be very press worthy. ben folds and Neil instantly make something more popular if their involved I'm assuming).

I know a lost of people are going to disagree, but hey, whatever, that's okay.
Oh and sorry if I don't make any sense. I'm tired.

Coin-Operated Boy is catchy and singable - but that doesn't mean the song itself lacks substance and depth.

That's all it is though. It only has one real idea and that's used to death. It's one of the weakest songs she's written and I cringe whenever someone requests it at a show. I usually go out for a smoke or a beer when it comes up in the set. Sorry Amanda!

[Hayley Fiasco!]

Coin-Operated Boy is catchy and singable - but that doesn't mean the song itself lacks substance and depth.

That's all it is though. It only has one real idea and that's used to death. It's one of the weakest songs she's written and I cringe whenever someone requests it at a show. I usually go out for a smoke or a beer when it comes up in the set. Sorry Amanda!

Well it is their break out single, obviously there are other implications with it being so well known and potentially overplayed (what snagged me into finally diving into the DD music was waking up to Coin-Op on the radio nearly every morning and having it stuck in my head, i HAD to learn more about the band after that), but that shouldn't dismiss the merits of the lyrics and actual message of the song.

Amanda has been quoted as saying that the song is about being lonely, where as there are other interpretations of the song literally being about a sex toy - and hey, doesn't that put a signature on Amanda's song writing - the fact that the song can successfully and wholly be interpreted to mean two (almost completely) different things? It's a metaphor, and while it is catchy and "used to death" it still has significant meaning and substance. Of course she has written other songs that one can say is better (I'm not really up to make that argument simply because I don't have any real interest to delve into it), but I used it as an obvious example.

[Andy Pants]

Coin-Operated Boy is catchy and singable - but that doesn't mean the song itself lacks substance and depth.

That's all it is though. It only has one real idea and that's used to death. It's one of the weakest songs she's written and I cringe whenever someone requests it at a show. I usually go out for a smoke or a beer when it comes up in the set. Sorry Amanda!

Well it is their break out single, obviously there are other implications with it being so well known and potentially overplayed (what snagged me into finally diving into the DD music was waking up to Coin-Op on the radio nearly every morning and having it stuck in my head, i HAD to learn more about the band after that), but that shouldn't dismiss the merits of the lyrics and actual message of the song.

Amanda has been quoted as saying that the song is about being lonely, where as there are other interpretations of the song literally being about a sex toy - and hey, doesn't that put a signature on Amanda's song writing - the fact that the song can successfully and wholly be interpreted to mean two (almost completely) different things? It's a metaphor, and while it is catchy and "used to death" it still has significant meaning and substance. Of course she has written other songs that one can say is better (I'm not really up to make that argument simply because I don't have any real interest to delve into it), but I used it as an obvious example.

That was the one idea I was talking about.

It sucks that overwise emotive acts only ever seem to break through with novelty songs. I never really understood why that happens. Look at the Jezabels or Florence and the Machine for recent examples. Maybe it's industry pressure? For most of these acts I never would have gotten into them if that was my first exposure to their music.

[such a classic girl]

this doesn't even necessarily apply, since i think most of you have been expressing your opinions in a fair way, but it's also kind of adorable and i'm posting it here anyway.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0la5DBtOVNI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/0la5DBtOVNI</a>

anyway, i really need to go hear these songs for myself; i've been reading through the thread but haven't listened yet.

[Pope Totalfrog]

this doesn't even necessarily apply, since i think most of you have been expressing your opinions in a fair way, but it's also kind of adorable and i'm posting it here anyway.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0la5DBtOVNI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/0la5DBtOVNI</a>

anyway, i really need to go hear these songs for myself; i've been reading through the thread but haven't listened yet.

That is adorable. Every time my hyper critical sister feels the need to comment on something she doesn't like, she'll be hearing it.

[colordeaf]

Eh, it was a collection of amusing songs. I can listen to it when I'm browsing and stuff. Kudos for mentioning Nikolai Tesla, although the kid in the missing kid song sure sounded spoiled.

[The Angel Raliel]

Eh, it was a collection of amusing songs. I can listen to it when I'm browsing and stuff. Kudos for mentioning Nikolai Tesla, although the kid in the missing kid song sure sounded spoiled.

i think that was the point..kids can wind up in trouble despite coming from a home where they are cared and provided for

[Agonistes]

Eh, it was a collection of amusing songs. I can listen to it when I'm browsing and stuff. Kudos for mentioning Nikolai Tesla, although the kid in the missing kid song sure sounded spoiled.

i think that was the point..kids can wind up in trouble despite coming from a home where they are cared and provided for

it reminds me of the lullaby/folk song about 'if that mockingbird don't sing, momma's gonna buy you a diamond ring.'  when i was a kid i used to think, at what point does the speaker in this song realize they are buying all the wrong stuff for their kid if it all breaks and/or runs away?  it's also funny to me because my parents had me in every type of lesson imaginable, except for the things i actually wanted to learn.

[RiverVox]

Eh, it was a collection of amusing songs. I can listen to it when I'm browsing and stuff. Kudos for mentioning Nikolai Tesla, although the kid in the missing kid song sure sounded spoiled.

i think that was the point..kids can wind up in trouble despite coming from a home where they are cared and provided for

it reminds me of the lullaby/folk song about 'if that mockingbird don't sing, momma's gonna buy you a diamond ring.'  when i was a kid i used to think, at what point does the speaker in this song realize they are buying all the wrong stuff for their kid if it all breaks and/or runs away?  it's also funny to me because my parents had me in every type of lesson imaginable, except for the things i actually wanted to learn.

I found myself doing my 9 y.o. daughter's hair and make-up for her ballet performance while listening to this song. It made me reflect about the the choices and opportunities that I offer my children. I think the key is to listen and pay attention to what they care about. She is asking for piano lessons but I draw the line at a pony!

[Hayley Fiasco!]

Eh, it was a collection of amusing songs. I can listen to it when I'm browsing and stuff. Kudos for mentioning Nikolai Tesla, although the kid in the missing kid song sure sounded spoiled.

i think that was the point..kids can wind up in trouble despite coming from a home where they are cared and provided for

it reminds me of the lullaby/folk song about 'if that mockingbird don't sing, momma's gonna buy you a diamond ring.'  when i was a kid i used to think, at what point does the speaker in this song realize they are buying all the wrong stuff for their kid if it all breaks and/or runs away?  it's also funny to me because my parents had me in every type of lesson imaginable, except for the things i actually wanted to learn.

I found myself doing my 9 y.o. daughter's hair and make-up for her ballet performance while listening to this song. It made me reflect about the the choices and opportunities that I offer my children. I think the key is to listen and pay attention to what they care about. She is asking for piano lessons but I draw the line at a pony!

it instantly reminded me of that lullaby too, Agonistes.

And Mary, that's so true... and you sound like a wonderful mother, you have a lucky little girl!

[CeeGBee]

this doesn't even necessarily apply, since i think most of you have been expressing your opinions in a fair way, but it's also kind of adorable and i'm posting it here anyway.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0la5DBtOVNI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/0la5DBtOVNI</a>

anyway, i really need to go hear these songs for myself; i've been reading through the thread but haven't listened yet.

That is adorable. Every time my hyper critical sister feels the need to comment on something she doesn't like, she'll be hearing it.

New favourite song....