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[Shock G]

I do not have a solution...however the active encouragement of extremist thinking on either side is counter-productive....to the people who are turned to extremism this will cause them to decide against us....the west has to prove to the world it is moral and civilised all actions done in consideration not anger and a spirit of vengeance....

Taking out (dead or alive) someone who deliberately killed thousands of civilians  is not an "extremist" move, let us take this on a small scale and someone killed a single person even and was held up in a shed in the middle of the woods hiding.  The police find him and move in, he fires and they take him out, is that an extremist move?

And how will "this" turn them against us?  Drone strikes could and do when they kill civilians as could other bombings, but here we went in without collateral damage and got a target that basically the whole world would agree we have a right to go after.  And as I mentioned before Bin Laden's methods are losing the war of ideas, this could do more to take them out of the picture.

[The Angel Raliel]

no...but there was obviously the choice of an open arrest conducted with muslim authorities....pictures of americans celebrating in the streets will send the message to muslim extremists that we  (the west)are blood thirsty murderers with no right to life....remember from their perspective we are an evil to be combated at any cost...the only way we can convince any of them otherwise is by NOT behaving like their propaganda would have them believe

[Shock G]

no...but there was obviously the choice of an open arrest conducted with muslim authorities....pictures of americans celebrating in the streets will send the message to muslim extremists that we  (the west)are blood thirsty murderers with no right to life....remember from their perspective we are an evil to be combated at any cost...the only way we can convince any of them otherwise is by NOT behaving like their propaganda would have them believe

 

I'm sorry but have to use that smiley in response due to the fact that there is a lot of suspicion that the ISI has been getting information to Bin Laden (remember that they were active supporters of the Taliban) so simply the part in bold is not a realistic option, we missed him once and to blow it again that way would not be acceptable.  And people celebrated after we dropped the bomb on Japan not for the deaths of the Japanese but for what it meant, this was a big victory in our war which has been a bloody stalemate in that region for years now.  It also corrected a major failure we had letting Bin Laden escape from Tora Bora.  The fact that we went in to extract him with special forces instead of just bombing the place to limit the number of casualties shows we do respect life and the person we went after was not a common criminal but one who formally declared and then committed multiple acts of war against the US.

[The Angel Raliel]

I basically mean that the activity should have been done as openly as possible....and the treatment of his body (regardless of who he was or what he represented) dealt with with the due respect and traditions of his culture....it is sort of showing respect and consideration even for enemies that shows us to be better than the extremists......I agree that his arrest and possible death were required.....I just think one has to understand the motivations of Al Quaida and not play into their hands by giving them even more motivation to hate the west........

[CeeGBee]

I basically mean that the activity should have been done as openly as possible....

It was.
The whole point of a commando operation is that no one knows about it 'til it's over.
Having completed the raid, they retrieved the dead guy so they could identify it so
certainly that even Donald Trump will have to accept that the guy really is dead, then
they made a big ol' public statement as soon as they could.

The best guess is that ISI was just as happy to see him gone, but they had lots of "friends"
in common, and if ISI had been in the proverbial loop, someone would have tipped Osama off.

and the treatment of his body (regardless of who he was or what he represented) dealt with with the due respect and traditions of his culture....it is sort of showing respect and consideration even for enemies that shows us to be better than the extremists......I agree that his arrest and possible death were required.....I just think one has to understand the motivations of Al Quaida and not play into their hands by giving them even more motivation to hate the west........

Which "culture" would that be?  Zero-tolerance pseudo-Islam?  
Throw him on top of a landfill and give his goons the link for the 24-hour webcam
so they can watch him rot unburied.  Who knows, maybe he really was the genius
his people have always said, and the whole organization will crumble without him.

(On the flipside, America's foes in North Vietnam got along just fine after Uncle Ho died....)

[Shock G]

I basically mean that the activity should have been done as openly as possible....and the treatment of his body (regardless of who he was or what he represented) dealt with with the due respect and traditions of his culture....it is sort of showing respect and consideration even for enemies that shows us to be better than the extremists......I agree that his arrest and possible death were required.....I just think one has to understand the motivations of Al Quaida and not play into their hands by giving them even more motivation to hate the west........

Well Al Queda really isn't a big group anymore, there is the base in Pakistan but around the world a lot of the other ones have no real connection but also are not major factors.  Look at Al Shabab in Somalia they will still exist but also are very localized.  Also we are taking covert actions against them with AC-130 gun ships and drones, the same for those in Yemen.  The latter though is influenced heavily by a US born cleric.

But back to how this might effect things when we knocked off the top guy in Al Queda in Iraq it lost a lot of its steam, yes it is still around but not as a major force.  Bin Laden for lack of a better term was the brand, he could still be in death but it also could all crumble/splinter.

We can not underestimate how big the youth movements in the Muslim world are though.  Before the face of resistance against the status quo of Western dominance/governments who allow it was the terrorist groups which while many did not support their actions they did support the idea of standing up to the corrupt governments.  Look at the Palestinian territories where Gaza was on the road to have a long term single party state after Hamas won the civil war with Fatah a few years back and 2 months back refused to allow local elections.  Facebook groups and protests have recently started and now they are going to form a unity government with Fatah and start down the path to hold elections.

The real flash point I see in the future sadly is Lebanon again since Hezbollah is a state within a state having their own military and holding complete power in some towns.  If people follow the rest of the region and rise up again there could be lots of violence as Hezbollah has a history of assassinating those who are against them.  But even here the dynamic is changing since one of their main benefactors and path for much of their weapons Syria is going through a revolution, and the big bank roller Iran might as well.  My hope is this really does make an end of an era of Muslim extremism....yes there will be isolated acts and nothing will stop them completely but we have random terrorist acts from all sorts of groups it sadly is a fact of life in today's world.

[Shock G]

I basically mean that the activity should have been done as openly as possible....

It was.
The whole point of a commando operation is that no one knows about it 'til it's over.
Having completed the raid, they retrieved the dead guy so they could identify it so
certainly that even Donald Trump will have to accept that the guy really is dead, then
they made a big ol' public statement as soon as they could.

The best guess is that ISI was just as happy to see him gone, but they had lots of "friends"
in common, and if ISI had been in the proverbial loop, someone would have tipped Osama off.

and the treatment of his body (regardless of who he was or what he represented) dealt with with the due respect and traditions of his culture....it is sort of showing respect and consideration even for enemies that shows us to be better than the extremists......I agree that his arrest and possible death were required.....I just think one has to understand the motivations of Al Quaida and not play into their hands by giving them even more motivation to hate the west........

Which "culture" would that be?  Zero-tolerance pseudo-Islam?  
Throw him on top of a landfill and give his goons the link for the 24-hour webcam
so they can watch him rot unburied.  Who knows, maybe he really was the genius
his people have always said, and the whole organization will crumble without him.

(On the flipside, America's foes in North Vietnam got along just fine after Uncle Ho died....)

North Vietnam was a government though, the only big guy left in Al Queda is Al Zawahiri.

[CeeGBee]

I was just reading some of the more in-depth news coverage and ran across this:

...The U.S. official who disclosed the burial at sea said it would have been difficult to find a country
willing to accept the remains. Obama said the remains had been handled in accordance with Islamic
custom, which requires speedy burial.

Now we can add him to the list with Biggie & Tupac & JFK.

Where are they really?

A freezer in Area 51 would be my guess.

[Savannah]

I was just reading some of the more in-depth news coverage and ran across this:

...The U.S. official who disclosed the burial at sea said it would have been difficult to find a country
willing to accept the remains. Obama said the remains had been handled in accordance with Islamic
custom, which requires speedy burial.

Now we can add him to the list with Biggie & Tupac & JFK.

Where are they really?

A freezer in Area 51 would be my guess.

Actually i have seen the picture and it looked to fake. Besides i live in a country whose people are %98 muslim, and i don't remember any of my relatives have been buried this quick. Seriously, it takes 2 days at least. I don't believe he is dead, and i don't believe it matters this much. I feel like it's a political move.

[The Angel Raliel]

here we go....already causing anti western feelings openly in the middle east
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/May/02/Hamas-leader-condemns-Bin-Ladens-killing.ashx#axzz1LCbudz3n

[lentower]

i'm always sadden to see a person die.

the way this was done will NOT help our relation with Pakistan,
and does nothing to cure the underlying issues that makes people terrorists.
like the saudi royal family.

?

If there was one US action in Pakistan to not get the people pissed this would be it, Osama is accepted around the world as someone who directly attacked America.  Drone strikes or intel operatives when discovered cause issues but this will be nothing but a blip and could be welcome in Pakistan, remember Al Queda has close ties to the Pakistani Taliban who have killed countless civilians and tried to take over the whole country just a little while back.

And people now know they don't need to be terrorists to take down a government like the royal family, for proof they can look to the West at Tunisia, Egypt, or to their southern border with Yemen.

there will be many people in Pakistan,
who will dislike that a supposed ally, the USA,
acted alone, instead of letting the Pakistani government
handle it.  (Yes, you can outline the reasons why this was
the strategic thing to do, but it won't change how those
Pakistanis feel about how their sovereignty was violated.
Even if, as Obama implied, he had the consent of a few of
Pakistan's senior leaders.  And those leaders will take even
more heat for letting the USA do this to Pakistan.)
Understanding the motivations of others is invaluable in
diplomacy and statecraft.

Sigh, of the countries you mention, Tunisia has the best chance
of the people getting what they want.  And you haven't mentioned
the 'failures' in Libya, Iran, Syria, Bahrain,
and all the others who haven't gone up against their dictator's guns yet.
I suggest you read some Bismarck and Kissinger.
Attempting real change without understanding reality is much less likely
to get you anywhere.

[lentower]

I was just reading some of the more in-depth news coverage and ran across this:

...The U.S. official who disclosed the burial at sea said it would have been difficult to find a country
willing to accept the remains. Obama said the remains had been handled in accordance with Islamic
custom, which requires speedy burial.

Now we can add him to the list with Biggie & Tupac & JFK.

Where are they really?

A freezer in Area 51 would be my guess.

Actually i have seen the picture and it looked to fake. Besides i live in a country whose people are %98 muslim, and i don't remember any of my relatives have been buried this quick. Seriously, it takes 2 days at least. I don't believe he is dead, and i don't believe it matters this much. I feel like it's a political move.

I believe you live in Turkey?

My understanding is that Turkey is not your typical Islamic country,

I also don't know what the Koran saids about burial.
Or how much burial customs vary across the Muslim world.

[The Angel Raliel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_funeral

[Savannah]

I was just reading some of the more in-depth news coverage and ran across this:

...The U.S. official who disclosed the burial at sea said it would have been difficult to find a country
willing to accept the remains. Obama said the remains had been handled in accordance with Islamic
custom, which requires speedy burial.

Now we can add him to the list with Biggie & Tupac & JFK.

Where are they really?

A freezer in Area 51 would be my guess.

Actually i have seen the picture and it looked to fake. Besides i live in a country whose people are %98 muslim, and i don't remember any of my relatives have been buried this quick. Seriously, it takes 2 days at least. I don't believe he is dead, and i don't believe it matters this much. I feel like it's a political move.

I believe you live in Turkey?

My understanding is that Turkey is not your typical Islamic country,

I also don't know what the Koran saids about burial.
Or how much borial customs vary across the Muslim world.

We don't use Islamic rules in our judgemental system, it's secular. But most of people are muslim. And though we are a lot different than Pakistan or any other Islamic country, ceremonies remain the same.
Actually when a muslim dies, first day either the body is sent to morgue or the family keeps it for a night. The second day it's sent to a local funeral undertaker and gets washed, it's called ablution. Later on, optionally, it waits for one more night so that all of the family members and friends hear about it and attend the funeral.

Last year my mother's aunt in law has died, it took 3 days.

Now, what i want to say is, it's optional. There's no rule about burying the dead in a hurry, it just has to be unimposing.

[Shock G]

i'm always sadden to see a person die.

the way this was done will NOT help our relation with Pakistan,
and does nothing to cure the underlying issues that makes people terrorists.
like the saudi royal family.

?

If there was one US action in Pakistan to not get the people pissed this would be it, Osama is accepted around the world as someone who directly attacked America.  Drone strikes or intel operatives when discovered cause issues but this will be nothing but a blip and could be welcome in Pakistan, remember Al Queda has close ties to the Pakistani Taliban who have killed countless civilians and tried to take over the whole country just a little while back.

And people now know they don't need to be terrorists to take down a government like the royal family, for proof they can look to the West at Tunisia, Egypt, or to their southern border with Yemen.

there will be many people in Pakistan,
who will dislike that a supposed ally, the USA,
acted alone, instead of letting the Pakistani government
handle it.  (Yes, you can outline the reasons why this was
the strategic thing to do, but it won't change how those
Pakistanis feel about how their sovereignty was violated.
Even if, as Obama implied, he had the consent of a few of
Pakistan's senior leaders.  And those leaders will take even
more heat for letting the USA do this to Pakistan.)
Understanding the motivations of others is invaluable in
diplomacy and statecraft.

A big view on this is that we are in the area to get Osama...the fact that he is now dead itself will not be a major issue it will be the question both there AND here in America why are we still there and this could give us the excuse needed to save face and pull out.  But again if you want to talk about the motivation of others the Pakistani people will be happy as Bin Laden is the face of the type of violence and suicide bombings which have been scaring their country in recent years.  You also have to remember they are pissed at us for much worse things, in the eyes of the general public here the US did not kill any civilians, did not have spies roaming around the country, and got what was their goal for being in the region.

Sigh, of the countries you mention, Tunisia has the best chance
of the people getting what they want.  And you haven't mentioned
the 'failures' in Libya, Iran, Syria, Bahrain,
and all the others who haven't gone up against their dictator's guns yet.
I suggest you read some Bismarck and Kissinger.
Attempting real change without understanding reality is much less likely
to get you anywhere.

Egypt seems to be moving pretty well, Syria is on the way too, Libya is the only one which has gone to full on war.  Iran is just waiting to go and the government there knows it, Bahrain is a proxy war of Iran/Saudi Arabia so that has a whole different dynamic (both of which though have their own issues with Iran as I mentioned 1 big outrage away from a green revolution, and the Saudi's buying off their people for now).  If you want to talk about reality Len I know many people on the ground in this area of the world and can tell you that the youth are pissed and looking for change.  Some countries will go peacefully like Tunisia, others will have civil wars like Libya, and most will be somewhere in the middle.