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Author Topic: SlutWalks  (Read 17398 times)

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imaginary friend

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SlutWalks
« on: May 06, 2011, 01:28:44 PM »

coming to a town near you:   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42927752/ns/us_news-life/?gt1=43001

 :glasses9:

#@!

update: Detroit gets one June 25.

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 07:36:03 AM »

how was it?
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2011, 10:40:09 AM »

didn't go.

#@!

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2011, 11:14:13 PM »

Wow really?

Okay, I understand what they're saying. We shouldn't take the blame away from the rapist but at the same time if a women dresses like a slut, she will receive unwanted attention. Males are more visual and therefore they are turned on by what they see. if women don't want to be attacked or harassed, then they shouldn't dress like a whore. It's that simple.

When did the world become so bored and dumb?
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 05:51:21 PM »

Wow really?

Okay, I understand what they're saying. We shouldn't take the blame away from the rapist but at the same time if a women dresses like a slut, she will receive unwanted attention. Males are more visual and therefore they are turned on by what they see. if women don't want to be attacked or harassed, then they shouldn't dress like a whore. It's that simple.

When did the world become so bored and dumb?
My thought on this.....

Rapists happen in societies where clothing is an afterthought, and in places where all women
wear burqas.  Sometimes they're triggered by obvious "sex" stimuli like lots of exposed skin or
a flirty manner, but at least as often such things seem to have minimal influence in the choice
of victims.  I agree that women who show up for a job interview showing the Grand Canyon of
cleavage have little ground for complaint when they're not taken seriously, but the blame for
rape lies entirely with the rapist.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 06:09:11 PM »

Wow really?

Okay, I understand what they're saying. We shouldn't take the blame away from the rapist but at the same time if a women dresses like a slut, she will receive unwanted attention. Males are more visual and therefore they are turned on by what they see. if women don't want to be attacked or harassed, then they shouldn't dress like a whore. It's that simple.

When did the world become so bored and dumb?
My thought on this.....

Rapists happen in societies where clothing is an afterthought, and in places where all women
wear burqas.  Sometimes they're triggered by obvious "sex" stimuli like lots of exposed skin or
a flirty manner, but at least as often such things seem to have minimal influence in the choice
of victims.  I agree that women who show up for a job interview showing the Grand Canyon of
cleavage have little ground for complaint when they're not taken seriously, but the blame for
rape lies entirely with the rapist.

what Cee wrote.
in spades.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2011, 05:37:23 PM »

'Slut Pride' is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  I agree with Mockery.  If you don't want to be raped, then don't wear an outfit that screams 'please rape me'.  Bears are dangerous, I don't go running around the woods covered in blood, because that's asking for trouble.

Thank you Hillary.

And I also agree with you Cee. The blame is entirely with the rapist. I'm just saying that women who dress like sluts invite unwanted attention so I think they shouldn't dress like a whore either way.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2011, 07:04:19 PM »

Wow really?

Okay, I understand what they're saying. We shouldn't take the blame away from the rapist but at the same time if a women dresses like a slut, she will receive unwanted attention. Males are more visual and therefore they are turned on by what they see. if women don't want to be attacked or harassed, then they shouldn't dress like a whore. It's that simple.

When did the world become so bored and dumb?
My thought on this.....

Rapists happen in societies where clothing is an afterthought, and in places where all women
wear burqas.  Sometimes they're triggered by obvious "sex" stimuli like lots of exposed skin or
a flirty manner, but at least as often such things seem to have minimal influence in the choice
of victims.  I agree that women who show up for a job interview showing the Grand Canyon of
cleavage have little ground for complaint when they're not taken seriously, but the blame for
rape lies entirely with the rapist.

what Cee wrote.
in spades.

Also more spades for me please.

We had a discussion a while ago about a transgender woman who got the shit kicked out of her in McDonald's because some girls took objection to her being transgendered and using the women's toilets, and we were all outraged - nobody said anything like "Well it's not safe to be a transgender person at night, she should have been more careful". If there was a story of a man getting attacked because he was effeminate and people thought he was gay and so deserved a beating, we'd be horrified. If a gay woman was attacked for dressing "butch" then we'd be equally horrified. And yet, a woman gets raped and somehow it's OK to say that perhaps she shouldn't have worn such a short skirt, or a tight top, or boots or whatever. It's fucking bullshit, and frankly I kind of think people should be ashamed of themselves for suggesting otherwise.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2011, 03:23:03 PM »

Again, you're making a good point Hillary. Again, not saying rape is okay but women who dress like hookers and sluts are inviting people to act ungentlemanly towards them.
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Savannah

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2011, 06:39:41 PM »

Again, you're making a good point Hillary. Again, not saying rape is okay but women who dress like hookers and sluts are inviting people to act ungentlemanly towards them.

I'm sorry for the metaphor, but i don't think it's like a donkey chasing a carrot, or a fly flying around the lamp. We are not animals, if we are able to think, we should be able to ignore our instincts too.

It's been a million time but i must tell it again, i live in a country in which %40-50 of the women wear headscarves(a.k.a. turbans) and also they wear long outerwears. Yet they're being raped equally.

And the funnier thing is, the guys coming from such conservative families tend to harass women sexually more than those ones coming from ordinary families. Forgive me but i believe it's just separatism made us women so prejudiced about eachother.
For example: i'm a woman who doesn't wear shorter skirts than the knee length ones. Should i criticize some other woman with mini skirt for dressing like a slut? Oh then there's another woman with ankle length skirt who will blame me for dressing like a slut?

My point is, tastes differ.
The way you want to dress like, does not make a rapist less guilty.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2011, 08:11:20 PM »

How did we get two threads on this?
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2011, 10:26:07 PM »

How did we get two threads on this?

i beliebe that cletus made one and then indja made another one because she didnt see this one (i only know this one came first due to the dates) and when they originally commented about that indja said that she thought they were a bit different, as in this one was started as throwing it out there and showing everyone "hey look at this, what do you think" and indja's was more based on discussing the actual concept?

i'm guessing but i believe that's kinda what happened...
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2011, 07:02:08 AM »

I wasn't outraged.  

I'm not suggesting it is their FAULT they get raped, I just think they're fucking idiots wandering around at night with next to nothing on.  The REASON they wear that shit is to attract the attention of men, then they act like they have all the integrity in the world to be disgusted if someone they don't find attractive hits on them.  I don't like spiders, but I don't like it if someone sets one on fire.  Rapists should be taken down an alley, shafted with a hot pipe and then shot.  But I also think sluts should be shot, so.

With transgendered people, it's entirely different.  It doesn't hurt a whore to put on a cardigan and a slightly longer skirt, it does not ruin their life or make it a lie - a transgendered woman not wearing female clothes indeed may make her feel like she's living a lie.  

That is a fucking joke. I'm sorry but what on earth gives you the right to decide that how someone dresses means they're an idiot or "a whore"? I know you're not saying it's their fault, but you're still judging a woman for not conforming to your personal idea of sense and style and what have you, and you just don't get to do that. It's beyond just thinking "I wouldn't wear that if you paid me", you're actually insulting that woman's personality and making judgements about their entire lives which is fucking ridiculous.

Savannah's right - we aren't animals, we can control ourselves and act responsibly. A normal, level-headed man would see a girl he fancied, maybe try and chat her up, and if he's turned down then he'd bugger off and let it lie.  What's more, sexual attacks aren't about sex - it's about power and control and proving yourself to be the strongest. Wearing something shapeless and covering yourself up doesn't in any way protect you from that sort of attack.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2011, 07:39:13 AM »

I am of the opinion that anyone can wear what the hell they like in any way they like.....it may not be to my taste but hell 90% of the population offends my sense of fashion.....even if a woman wants to go around in bra and kinickers while swirling a feather boa...it is not ok to physically and sexually assault her.... conformity for safety is a really lame excuse for enforcing dress codes
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2011, 08:53:39 AM »

agree with The Angel R!
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2011, 09:13:52 AM »

^^
I couldn't agree more!
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2011, 11:01:40 AM »

Seconded. Or, wait, am I thirding it now?
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2011, 11:09:33 AM »

Often, women don't dress up or wear make-up to attract men but to feel good about themselves and possibly to get compliments from fellow women. Lots of style choices are the types that men don't understand but are there to show that "I am stylish or fashionable" regardless whether the outfit actually is that. Plus, lots of the girls who dress somewhat revealingly think they won't look beautiful without the trowels of make-up or a short skirt... Should this be taken advantage of?

Plus, there is a hell is a difference between (unwanted) attention and a rape. Someone might put on a low-cut top to get admiring looks and even secretly like when they get cat-called, doesn't mean they want sex to be the end result... Also, no one is never "asking to be raped", if they were, it would be called consensual sex, not rape.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2011, 01:10:32 PM »

i have a friend who used to work the counter in my shop.  she went to school with my stepdaughter, and she is, for all practical purposes, very comfortable with sex of any kind.  as such, she is also very ethical and doesn't screw around in people's relationships or make people think she loves them, or etc.  what bothers me about this is she takes a certain amount of pride in calling herself a slut.

i get where she's going with it, and i understand the concept of 'taking back a word' but, i dunno.  i've never meant any insult, myself, when i have referred to a girl as a slut (mostly i meant they were generally friendly in the grownup hug kind of way), but i've always felt bad for doing so, because of what it feels like i'm saying, i guess.  it would be easier to get my head around, i guess, if there were words that referred to males the same way.  but words like 'satyr' are for reals more fun to say and don't imply the same image one bit.

also, calling a guy a slut only seems applicable when the guy is gay, and most of the ones you'd term sluts aren't really unhappy about it; they use it as part of their personality/humor, and it doesn't become the burden it seems to become when used on a female.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2011, 03:42:25 PM »

i call "man sluts" "man hoes", that way it doesnt imply they're gay...totally not relevant to the actual topic, but i'm pretending that i'm helping grow your vocabulary
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2011, 04:58:14 PM »

@Hillary I don't think you are opposed to the outfits as much as you are opposed to the behavior and attitude of the girls wearing them. They would probably be just as obnoxious in tracksuits.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2011, 06:00:52 PM »

@Hillary I don't think you are opposed to the outfits as much as you are opposed to the behavior and attitude of the girls wearing them. They would probably be just as obnoxious in tracksuits.

Yes, yes they are.  But as I have said, these two things go hand in hand here.  Here they wear tracksuits by day, minimal threads by night.  But if I see a girl dressed like that (especially in Lancaster & Morecambe) you can bet money they are an epic bitch.  They think that if they are showing more skin than you that they are more attractive than you, therefore better than you and can treat you like shit without knowing you.  There have also been far too many occasions where I have known guys to be seriously verbally attacked and called a rapist/pervert just for hitting on a girl like that, because they are mostly bolshy cows and think they are better than everybody.  If any of the girls I've known to do that shit actually had been raped later, I don't think I would care.  I know that sounds heartless, but when 90% of the people in your town are like that, you become a lot less sensitive to their plight.  Do you guys live in places where sluts are lovely, or WHAT?  
You dislike a certain group of girls. This doesn't mean you can judge every person who chooses to wear a skimpy outfit.

Slutty?


Slutty?


Slutty?


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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2011, 07:38:11 PM »

Slutty is not the same thing as skimpy, and neither are necessarily the same thing as tacky, either.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2011, 07:49:34 PM »

@Sarah - I'm sorry I got over-personal. I got a bit upset, and didn't think about how I sounded before I wrote it. I am still completely opposed to your opinion, but I didn't have to be mean. Sorry.

I'm sorry you've never met a girl who dressed like that and who wasn't a bitch, but I've known a fair few in my time and as a general rule they've been alright. But even those that have offended me or whatever don't deserve to be dismissed as people, and people deserve to be treated with a modicum of respect. Saying you wouldn't care if you heard they'd been raped is not treating them with that respect - it's ignoring their basic humanity and I'm honestly shocked to hear you say it. Whether a woman is rude, obnoxious and insulting or whether she's charming, witty and polite doesn't detract from the fact that she is a woman, a human being, somebody's child - a fact that I feel strongly and simply qualifies her for a level of care and concern that no amount of unpleasant behaviour should forfeit.

You say you've been judged all your life for dressing differently - why is it that this doesn't make you more aware than most of how unpleasant it is, rather than apparently telling you that the behaviour is acceptable? I'm not saying I'm perfect and that I don't judge people on how they look, I know that I do, but just because I do it doesn't mean that I think it's alright that I do it. I'm sure we all have behaviours that we don't like about ourselves. It sounds - and I'm sorry if this is misinterpretting you - but it sounds like you don't see how judging girls in short skirts and skimpy tops is in any way reprehensible, and that confuses me rather.

I'm also pretty baffled by your repeated assertions that girls where you live are especially different from girls elsewhere in the country. Have a feeling you'll be in for a shock when/if you move away and find that it's at least a national epidemic if not international.

@Brooke - I like to think I have the right to dress as slutty or tacky as I want without being in some way thought to be less worthy of respect than the next person.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2011, 08:15:20 PM »

Those are not skimpy outfits.
And you can't say that I am wrong and disgusting and ridiculous (I'm aware you didn't use these words, but I feel like they're implied) just because that is all I've experienced with regards to that dress style, and it has not been a small experience.   

Also; as far as I can see with that second picture, they've all chosen to show off one part of their figure (their legs) which I actually think is quite nice.  Girls here cannot do that, they have to show everything.  There is a time and a place for it.
I know the girls you mean. They are universal. They are most definitely not shining examples of humanity and I'm not judging you for disliking them. I think you have judged them for their behaviour more than for what they wear (or don't wear) - that was more my point.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2011, 09:34:47 PM »

Those are not skimpy outfits.
She's right. This is skimpy:


There's nothing wrong with wearing clothing that revels the nice parts of your body but it must be done in a refined, sophisticated way. You know how they say imitate is the finest form of the flattery? It's true and people will pick up on the fashion they see in the media. It's a way of life.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2011, 09:42:22 PM »

Those are not skimpy outfits.
She's right. This is skimpy:


There's nothing wrong with wearing clothing that revels the nice parts of your body but it must be done in a refined, sophisticated way. You know how they say imitate is the finest form of the flattery? It's true and people will pick up on the fashion they see in the media. It's a way of life.
not so very skimpy if she wore it to the beach; that's a legitimate bikini swimsuit under it.   but then, what would one call it if she wore it to church?  i have no idea what the thing is over her arm; i can only assume she skinned one of her kid's plushies.

i mean, i could see places one could wear that that it would be all 'OMG thats such a cool...shirt....and your tan is so orange' or whatever, but i can see a lot more places that she'd be greeted with some frost from the bourgeoisie.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2011, 10:02:15 PM »

Those are not skimpy outfits.
She's right. This is skimpy:


There's nothing wrong with wearing clothing that revels the nice parts of your body but it must be done in a refined, sophisticated way. You know how they say imitate is the finest form of the flattery? It's true and people will pick up on the fashion they see in the media. It's a way of life.
I wouldn't wear it. It wouldn't flatter me. If someone else wants to wear it, then good for them. I won't judge them for it.

If you don't like it, don't wear it. You don't have the right to dictate to anyone what is right and proper.



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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2011, 10:37:30 PM »

In case anyone's keeping track, this is the point where some busybody locked the
other SlutWalk thread.  (http://www.theshadowbox.net/forum/index.php?topic=17957.0)

This is skimpy:

What makes this skimpy, even though it's a fairly conservative bikini underneath,
is the outer "garment" used to create the impression that it's revealing....
the sense that you're seeing something under her clothes.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2011, 11:11:38 PM »

look at me! i'm helping CeeGBee!

(just for clarification, i'm now trying to help move the other slutwalk convo over here...and i'm replying to hillary and agonistes)

i do believe there was a SVU (i THINK, it could have been some other cop show :p ) about where a man claimed to be raped by a bunch of ladies, and how when they brought it to court people were trying to say it was impossible for a man to be raped by a woman due to lots of stupid reasons (such as men enjoy it to much, how could the women over power a really fit guy, etc) unfortunately i dont remember how it ended (i think the women got away with it) but i think it's unfair how just because men are supposedly "bigger and stronger" and generally much more obsessed with sex doesnt mean that they cant be raped by a woman
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2011, 12:33:01 AM »

while you all are moving the convo from the locked thread

over in the locked thread,
you can click the Quote link
click in the the Quick Reply box
copy the text in it (Control-A Control-C or Clover-A Clover-C on most compies)
come over to this thread,
click in the Quick Reply box here
paste it (Control-V or Clover-V)
continue editing

this has the advantage of adding more links back to the locked thread
and it's convos.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2011, 02:04:50 AM »

simple one.... just because you do not like or approve of the way someone dresses does not mean that they should not be able to wear it.....or that they are inciting sexual assault..... if the law starts enfocing dress codes for our own protection...we will soon end up with an enforced uniform....look at communist china or parts of the middle east and see how that worked out
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2011, 02:18:40 AM »

^what you just said reminds me a lot of movies like equilibrium, or other similar movies and books (there are a LOT) and it always ends badly...
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2011, 02:23:17 AM »

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEE-PUL







i'm sorry.  i could NOT resist.  i think it's because that top reminds me of taffy when i scroll past it.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2011, 02:31:28 AM »

because I strongly believe in freedom of individuality.....I deeply dislike the Hijab and what it stands for but will defend to the death a womans right to wear it....banning a style of dress, be it hoodies or hijabs allows for  a legal process capable of ditating what YOU wear.....if we go down the french route and ban the Hijab...then it is perfectly feasable for the government to decide to ban the wearing of skirts that are above the knee or t-shirts with slogans on or even to dictate that  one should not have bare shoulders in public....incidentally pretty sure draconian dress codes actually do nothing to stop rape.
 a more eloquent version of this argument can be seen in Neil gaiman's journal....different subject matter but same basic argument
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2011, 02:41:04 AM »

because I strongly believe in freedom of individuality.....I deeply dislike the Hijab and what it stands for but will defend to the death a womans right to wear it....banning a style of dress, be it hoodies or hijabs allows for  a legal process capable of ditating what YOU wear.....if we go down the french route and ban the Hijab...then it is perfectly feasable for the government to decide to ban the wearing of skirts that are above the knee or t-shirts with slogans on or even to dictate that  one should not have bare shoulders in public....incidentally pretty sure draconian dress codes actually do nothing to stop rape.
 a more eloquent version of this argument can be seen in Neil gaiman's journal....different subject matter but same basic argument
a lot of the public schools (govt-funded) over here have adopted dress codes.  it somewhat levels the playing field of kids with better clothing funds being able to use that as status, while allowing for cultural differences and saving the parents a good bit of money, actually.  and, there is a lot you can do with a uniform.

i have a hard time imagining a government-regulated uniform ever becoming a reality, though.  outside of the cultures where it is de rigeur, i mean.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2011, 02:53:06 AM »

actually we are closer than one might imagine....  (oh and school uniforms DO NOT stop bullying, which is often cited as a good reason for them...they simply are a tool of insitutionalising the inmates...oops, students....which is arguably a useful thing to do when trying to educate en masse but is distinctly damaging to creativity and self expression) it may not start out as being an uniform per se but if we go down the french route we start allowing law and government to dictate what we can and cannot wear, and once the prescedent has been set it becomes much easier to introduce similar rulings....what if it became illegal to wear overtly religious jwellery in public? one could argue that this would be a good thing because it stops people being targeted by race hate or religious bigotry or offending someone elses belief system....but is it really a good thing? If i wanted to wear a pentagram on a chain could i then be arrested? the erosion of personal freedoms can be a subtle  and slippery thing that looks at first glance looks like a protective and positive move.....has banning a particular mode of islamic dress actually achieved anything?.....probably got a whole lot of french muslims pissed off and thus actually more likely to move towards extremism
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2011, 03:09:47 AM »

i dunno....i go back and forth on the school uniforms (i was always more happy in a uniform-code school than a dress-code school), but i'm foursquare against public dress policies for any symbolic reason.  i'm cool with decency laws, i've run across way more naked people than i've needed to in public, and it's almost never a pleasant surprise, is it?  while i'm no fan of religion, i'm also well aware that to ban an icon is to ban an idea, and therefore to start the ball rolling towards some heavy unpleasantness.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2011, 03:19:32 AM »

indeed and i really do not have a problem with public nudity....I may find it umm mildly unpleasant but if it is not done in an overtly sexual way in which innocents might experience it then go right ahead...personally I am keeping my high collar shirt and frock coat....besides this is england...too bloody cold.......I went to a secondary school with a uniform (and yes i got into trouble for subtly adapting it to bow tie and waistcoat...technically still within uniform guidlines but was considered to be wrong....basically conforming simply was not going to be an option for me...and yes i was bullied relentlessly as was any kid who's uniform was a bit on the cheap side or not quite up to date enough..kids are gits and will find ways to be mean no matter how you institutionalise it) and indeed just because i disagree with religion it does not mean i will not defend someones right to express there belief in said religion, be it by clothing or by words...it is ok to argue it is not ok to ban or supress.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2011, 03:32:27 AM »

part of liking a uniform for me was the perverse joy i get out of archaic dress, myself.  in dress-coded schools i was generally overdressed, and garnered attention for preferring a pocketwatch to swatches, using fountain pens, and so on.

and true, bullies will bully, no matter what the circumstances. it's more something that has to be trained out of us than prevented, i think.  prevention only makes it clandestine, and the last thing anyone wants is a bully to catch them out of sight of authority.  harder to root out the ideas that make us divisive in the first place.

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2011, 04:45:38 AM »

I'm agreeing with most of what's been said, particularly the main point that whether we like what someone wears or not doesn't remove their right to wear it. Mockery's statement that revealing "nice" areas of your body but that it "must" be done in a sophisticated way stuck out for me as being particularly hard to get my head round. Who's to say what's nice or nasty, and why on earth is classiness compulsory?

I also think we've been forgetting to apply this to ourselves and to people we know, which means things have a tendency to become preachy or snobby or what have you. I think we need reminding that, just as we would be hurt and upset if told our jeans or our t-shirts or our trainers were unacceptable, or that someone was looking at them and not only assuming serious things about our personality but also wanting to control our decision to wear it, so we should be as hurt and upset when people do the same with short skirts, high heels and skimpy tops.


Also, why is the other thread locked? Is it just because there's two threads?
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2011, 05:04:22 AM »

Also, why is the other thread locked? Is it just because there's two threads?

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excerpt from BOX-RULES (please read before posting)
-Now, onto the rules. First and foremost: Please make sure you're not posting something that's been adressed already/old "news". If you're a new user or you haven't been on The Box in a few days, just take a second to see what the current threads are. When in doubt, PLEASE USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. There's a lot of information on this board and it's very likely somebody's already asked your question before. The search button is your friend.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2011, 05:09:10 AM »

indeed ...... got to the point where people were basically having exactly the same discussion via two different threads....the Mods above are apparently trying to shift the relevent content over to this one.......
It is hard to get used to the idea that it is ok to be offended on a personal level but when that starts affecting the law and enforces restriction of clothing style then it is a verty bad thing... the fact that we all pretty much get that is a rare thing in the world and we should strive towards eloquent explanation of our points of view rather than getting all feisty upon those that disagree
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2011, 06:05:47 AM »

oh indeed anything i have said has been expressing a point of view and is in no way meant to be an attack on the views of other SB members...more a gentle dismantling of those who's ideas are wrong (ie not mine) the uniform says it all in it's very name.. it is about making people conform to a uniform appearance and by inference a uniform pattern of behaviour....in institutions it is arguable that this is generally positive but when the idea of uniform starts creeping into the laws of evryday life, one has to start seriously worrying....If how a woman dresses can be usedd in law to dismiss a rape trial then we have a serious problem
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2011, 06:15:26 AM »

Two points:

On school uniform:
I come from a country where we don't use school uniforms, nor dress codes. Depending on the school, they might have few guidelines on attire (no pants showing or hats on guys, no short skirts on girls, no offensive words/prints overall) but generally it's all very lax compared. All the reasons why someone should wear a uniform do not make sense to me.
First, they say as all are dressed the same, you don't get bullied about style or being poor. Still, you are allowed to have your own bag and jewellry which are clear indicates on if you can afford the branded bag or not. And kids do modify their uniforms: small or big knot on the tie, hiking up the skirts a bit higher, etc. The indications of style or poverty just become smaller. It also doesn't erase any other reason for bullying. I was bullied for 9 years and partly because of my clothes but more likely because I wanted a friend so badly and took anything they said to heart, so I was an easy target.
Second, they say that school uniform makes you more focused to school work. So, should you wear the uniform still when you do homework? Should all jobs have exactly same uniforms so that people can focus? No. It's more to do with how society wants you to be prepared for the adult life, are you allowed to express yourself or should you be like everyone else...

In the other topic that got closed, issue of rape was discussed, and I'd like to say that even though there is no legal definition for a female rapist, their actions are trialled as serious sexual assault. I suppose these have been seen as "rape" because even though rape by law is only something you can do with a penis to vagina or anus, I'd claim in general language sexual assault where the victim is forced to give oral sex or penetrated with fingers or objects, would be called a rape.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2011, 06:28:37 AM »

Incidence: At least 47,000 adult women are raped every year in the UK.
Perpetrators: The majority of perpetrators are known to the victim.
Reporting: There has been a progressive increase in the number of rapes reported to the police for more than 20 years; during 2005/6 13,712 rapes were reported.
Conviction: In 2004 the conviction rate for rape was 5.3% - the lowest rate on record.
Support services: There are only 15 Sexual Assault Referral Centres (SARCs) for victims of rape.
Public attitudes: Nearly a third of people (30%) say a woman was partially or totally responsible for being raped if she was drunk
International: A study found the only European country with a lower conviction rate than the UK was Ireland.
http://www.cer.truthaboutrape.co.uk/3.html
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2011, 06:30:07 AM »

wqorryingly nearly 50% of reported rapes are not processed as criminal acrts by the police despite the reported crime falling well inside the guidlines for what is considered rape
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2011, 06:42:16 AM »

Your last statement is interesting.  I don't think this will ever be the case.  If a defence lawyer brought up that she was dressing provocatively, and that was why she got raped - any court would interpret that to be suggesting she wanted to be raped, and that kind of shit the court looks down on and is shocked by.  
'Slut Pride' is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  I agree with Mockery.  If you don't want to be raped, then don't wear an outfit that screams 'please rape me'.  Bears are dangerous, I don't go running around the woods covered in blood, because that's asking for trouble.
I am posting this as a genuine part of the discussion as I just want to clarify where you really stand. Is it that a woman's outfit is to blame for her being raped or isn't it?

If you wanted to work as a prosecutor you might have to change your attitude towards women in outfits that you wouldn't personally choose to wear.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2011, 06:43:58 AM »

http://www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/dress/
this is also a helpful website to look at in this argument

and yes in UK courts how a woman dresses or even how a 15 YEAR OLD DRESSES has been taken into consideration during rape trials
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2011, 06:47:35 AM »

http://www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/dress/
this is also a helpful website to look at in this argument

and yes in UK courts how a woman dresses or even how a 15 YEAR OLD DRESSES has been taken into consideration during rape trials
In the US they are blaming children for the way they dress. It's beyond wrong.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/08/in-2-gang-rape-cases-communities-blame-11-year-old-victims/
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2011, 06:58:35 AM »

It is worrying how backward thinking people are about this and my interest comes from my deep belief in individuality and self expression but also in the fact that my ex Fiancee  (we parted ways MANY MANY years ago now) was raped by someone who drove me and her home from my work one night....she was still living at home and I was still living at my parents in a small village so i was dropped off first and he said he would drop her off  at her house as he lived nearby..... he then raped her....basatard got 8years for it but the court case was awful and the fact that we were both openly alternative and that she was bisexual was made alot out of...plus the fact that she had been drinking (I worked in a pub) only after he was convicted was it revealed to the jury that he had previous convivtions and several more failed allegations of rape and assault against women on his record..at the time 8years was the maximum sentence for rape in the UK.....I think he MAY have been beaten up quite severely in prison a few times..of course I had nothing to do with that
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2011, 07:03:26 AM »

It is worrying how backward thinking people are about this and my interest comes from my deep belief in individuality and self expression but also in the fact that my ex Fiancee  (we parted ways MANY MANY years ago now) was raped by someone who drove me and her home from my work one night....she was still living at home and I was still living at my parents in a small village so i was dropped off first and he said he would drop her off  at her house as he lived nearby..... he then raped her....basatard got 8years for it but the court case was awful and the fact that we were both openly alternative and that she was bisexual was made alot out of...plus the fact that she had been drinking (I worked in a pub) only after he was convicted was it revealed to the jury that he had previous convivtions and several more failed allegations of rape and assault against women on his record..at the time 8years was the maximum sentence for rape in the UK.....I think he MAY have been beaten up quite severely in prison a few times..of course I had nothing to do with that

I have never understood why the victim's life is hung out there for everyone to judge but the life of the accused is a big secret.  It is awful that she had to go through that. Just awful. It is nice to know that he at least got the crap kicked out of him in prison (and that he was actually sent to prison).
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2011, 07:21:16 AM »

at the time the jury took forever to reach a verdict and only just ruled in our favour...I also was treated like a criminal by the police initially abd was immediately a suspect but as it happens Hampshire police are actually one of the best forces in the uk when it comes to rape investigation and after the initial interviews were completely on our side.... the jury however were led to  believe by the defence that She willingly had sex with him (despite the Rape kit evidence and the fact she had clawed half his face off....he tried to say that was a pet cat!) also for some reason the fact that she also liked girls somehow went against her????
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2011, 10:16:26 AM »

as stated before rape is not about sexual desire primarily but about dominance and agression.... and most rapes are committed by people already known to the victim..... the sort of random serial attacker is actually relatively rare and usually have a fixation on one type of victim..it has nil to do with them dressing like "sluts"......
I kind of like the term slut for this particular thing because it is shouting out that it is ok to be young and free to enjoy sex and be promiscuous and it is VERY not ok to be treated as the criminal because of your private life when some bastard decides to rape you.....the idea that the only true rape victim is a pure and chaste virgin is utter nonsense and has to be laid (as it were) to rest as soon as possible
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2011, 10:33:51 AM »

rape should basically cover any sexual act upon another person either under duress or without their express and positive consent...... the male body is pretty damn basic in its reaction to physical stimuli and it is indeed possible to commit a sex act on a male without his consent and even directly against his will.....it does not necessarily have to involve vaginal sex via the penis.....
 the pure and chaste virgin thing is basically how  society wants to view women as victims in such crimes, not conforming to this ideal leads to the defence using things like the slogan on ones knickers to try to prove that you consented to sex
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2011, 11:22:32 AM »

rape should basically cover any sexual act upon another person either under duress or without their express and positive consent
This should be the wording in the Act.  It's utterly stupid that it isn't.

agreed

is it anywhere else in the world?
with states and provinces in some countries,
having different laws,
maybe some government got this right?
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2011, 11:34:44 AM »

rape should basically cover any sexual act upon another person either under duress or without their express and positive consent
This should be the wording in the Act.  It's utterly stupid that it isn't.

agreed

is it anywhere else in the world?
with states and provinces in some countries,
having different laws,
maybe some government got this right?






Here's an example of a statute that appears to cover a lot of ground:


750.520b.  First degree criminal sexual conduct
   Sec. 520b.  (1)  A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct in the first degree if he or she engages in sexual penetration with another person and if any of the following circumstances exist:
   (a)  That other person is under 13 years of age.
   (b)  That other person is at least 13 but less than 16 years of age and any of the following:
   (I)  The actor is a member of the same household of the victim.
   (ii)  The actor is related to the victim by blood or affinity to the fourth degree.
   (iii)  The actor is in a position of authority over the victim and used this authority to coerce the victim to submit.
   (c)  Sexual penetration occurs under circumstances involving the commission of any other felony.
   (d)  The actor is aided or abetted by 1 or more other persons and either of the following circumstances exists:
   (I)  The actor knows or has reason to know that the victim is mentally incapable, mentally incapacitated, or physically helpless.
   (ii)  The actor uses force or coercion to accomplish the sexual penetration.  Force or coercion includes but is not limited to any of the circumstances listed in subdivision (f) (I) to (v).
   (e)  The actor is armed with a weapon or any article used or fashioned in a manner to lead the victim to reasonably believe it to be a weapon.
   (f)  The actor causes personal injury to the victim and force or coercion is used to accomplish sexual penetration.  Force or coercion includes but is not limited to any of the following circumstances:
   (I)  When the actor overcomes the victim through the actual application of physical force or physical violence.
   (ii)  When the actor coerces the victim to submit by threatening to use force or violence on the victim, and the victim believes that the actor has the present ability to execute these threats.
   (iii)  When the actor coerces the victim to submit by threatening to retaliate in the future against the victim, or any other person, and the victim believes that the actor has the ability to execute this threat.  As used in this subdivision, “to retaliate” includes threats of physical punishment, kidnapping, or extortion.
   (iv)  When the actor engages in the medical treatment or examination of the victim in a manner or for the purposes which are medically recognized as unethical or unacceptable.
   (v)  When the actor, through concealment or by the element of suprise, is able to overcome the victim.
   (g)  The actor causes personal injury to the victim, and the actor knows or has reason to know that the victim is mentally incapable, mentally incapacitated, or physically helpless.
   (h)  That other person is mentally incapable, mentally disabled, mentally incapacitated, or physically helpless, and any of the following:
   (I)  The actor is related to the victim by blood or affinity to the fourth degree.
   (ii)  The actor is in a position of authority over the victim and used this authority to coerce the victim to submit. 
   (2)  Criminal sexual conduct in the first degree is a felony punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for life or for any term of years.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2011, 11:44:40 AM »

hold on ...you can legally have sex with a 13 year old in the US? that is utterly stupid........age of consent here is 16 ( though it is recognised that one may be sexually active much younger) and any legal adult having sex with anyone under the age of 16 is technically automatically guilty of statutory rape.....unfortunately the crime is in itself a tad vague as it can cover someone you meet at a party and sleep with consentually or even have a relationship with and not realise she was underage....all the way through to forced pedophilac activity.........and this is often where young teens are traumatised a second time in court by defence lawyers
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2011, 11:48:43 AM »

i may have been a tad innaccurate  but this explains it better
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/02/99/e-cyclopedia/437789.stm
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2011, 12:03:15 PM »

got it....never studied law...and to be fair only vaguely familiar with the details....
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2011, 12:37:26 PM »

oh indeed anything i have said has been expressing a point of view and is in no way meant to be an attack on the views of other SB members...more a gentle dismantling of those who's ideas are wrong (ie not mine) the uniform says it all in it's very name.. it is about making people conform to a uniform appearance and by inference a uniform pattern of behaviour....in institutions it is arguable that this is generally positive but when the idea of uniform starts creeping into the laws of evryday life, one has to start seriously worrying....If how a woman dresses can be usedd in law to dismiss a rape trial then we have a serious problem

I don't think it will go this far.  Children are bound by a lot of laws, whether they know it or not.  They can't leave the school premises during teaching hours without a parent/teacher permission, because the school is legally responsible for them, for example.  That doesn't mean the law will eventually govern where adults go during the day - to a higher degree than they do already, which is minimal unless you're a felon.  

Your last statement is interesting.  I don't think this will ever be the case.  If a defence lawyer brought up that she was dressing provocatively, and that was why she got raped - any court would interpret that to be suggesting she wanted to be raped, and that kind of shit the court looks down on and is shocked by.  As it stands, from the rape case law I've studied, the court does not let rapists off easily.  There has to be buckets of evidence towards an alibi or an alternate suspect for a rapist to get away with it, or at least have his charge reduced to another sexual assault.  In a world where you can get banged up for shooting an intruder, it seems likely that the plaintiff is receiving more blame for attacks that take place, but people are starting to stand up against this.  I think it can only get farther away from the woman being blamed for her dress when it comes to rape.
it has been brought up time and again in american rape trials, the woman's dress the night of the alleged rape, so to speak.  especially in date rape and frat rape trials, and the like.  they will even take the actual clothes and pass one's knickers around the room.  the FIRST thing they do is find out what she was wearing, so the prosecution can turn it onto the victim.  a few years back a very famous rape trial tried to prove the victim was a prostitute (she was a student).  don't think everything that can be done to unsupport the defendant doesn't get done over here; american lawyers are dicks.

it isn't unusual for diaries, witnesses, whole lists of sexual partners through one's life, can be called into question.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2011, 12:55:37 PM »

hold on ...you can legally have sex with a 13 year old in the US?

Hang on, that cannot be right at all. That's still considered pedophilia. Even if the parents gave consent, it would still be illegal.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2011, 03:44:50 PM »

as far as i know in the us the age can change from state to state but technically you become "legal" somewhere between 16-18 (like i said depending on the state)

but i also know that even if a parent say's it's ok for a 13 year old to have sex with someone that they can get in a shit load of trouble...

for example, the hubz lived by many refugees and went to school with them. one of the guys he knew (from his mother's work) was about 40ish and had been married in his country to his wife who was about 12 (and yes where they came from that is acceptable and is the norm) someone here found out about it and made it into a huge issue and that guy got deported for it, so no even if a parent said ok, it's not legally ok here in the us....

hubz just also said as far as sex with minors go, sex between a 16-17 is ok, as long as they both consent, but legally once you hit 18 you're only legally supposed to have sex with people 18 and older (idk if that is a whole country thing or a state thing though)
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2011, 05:15:49 PM »

hold on ...you can legally have sex with a 13 year old in the US?

Hang on, that cannot be right at all. That's still considered pedophilia. Even if the parents gave consent, it would still be illegal.

in all 46 states, 4 commonwealths, the independent Indian Reservations, Puerto Rico, & the
territories?
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Our forum before this one...

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2011, 07:02:58 PM »

Also, why is the other thread locked? Is it just because there's two threads?

yes

excerpt from BOX-RULES (please read before posting)
-Now, onto the rules. First and foremost: Please make sure you're not posting something that's been adressed already/old "news". If you're a new user or you haven't been on The Box in a few days, just take a second to see what the current threads are. When in doubt, PLEASE USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. There's a lot of information on this board and it's very likely somebody's already asked your question before. The search button is your friend.
Humblest apologies, Ms. Indja, for locking your thread, but this was was here first,
and since they were both about-equally utilised, this one got preference.

It had nothing to do with the revealing low-cut blouse your thread was wearing.   :o
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2011, 09:07:19 PM »

Also, why is the other thread locked? Is it just because there's two threads?

yes

excerpt from BOX-RULES (please read before posting)
-Now, onto the rules. First and foremost: Please make sure you're not posting something that's been adressed already/old "news". If you're a new user or you haven't been on The Box in a few days, just take a second to see what the current threads are. When in doubt, PLEASE USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. There's a lot of information on this board and it's very likely somebody's already asked your question before. The search button is your friend.
Humblest apologies, Ms. Indja, for locking your thread, but this was was here first,
and since they were both about-equally utilised, this one got preference.

It had nothing to do with the revealing low-cut blouse your thread was wearing.   :o

Whatever, chauvinist pig.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2011, 09:54:35 PM »

as far as i know in the us the age can change from state to state but technically you become "legal" somewhere between 16-18 (like i said depending on the state)

but i also know that even if a parent say's it's ok for a 13 year old to have sex with someone that they can get in a shit load of trouble...

for example, the hubz lived by many refugees and went to school with them. one of the guys he knew (from his mother's work) was about 40ish and had been married in his country to his wife who was about 12 (and yes where they came from that is acceptable and is the norm) someone here found out about it and made it into a huge issue and that guy got deported for it, so no even if a parent said ok, it's not legally ok here in the us....

hubz just also said as far as sex with minors go, sex between a 16-17 is ok, as long as they both consent, but legally once you hit 18 you're only legally supposed to have sex with people 18 and older (idk if that is a whole country thing or a state thing though)

See? That's what I'm saying. The only way a 13 year old could actually have sex with someone older than them would if the parents gave consent.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2011, 10:24:43 PM »

actually i think technically if a parent were to let their 13 year old (in america) have sex it would be considered child endangerment and the parents would get into trouble
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2011, 05:34:06 AM »

legal age of consent is 16 here so you can have sex with anyone you like at that age..but you cannot drink and you cannot watch porn
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2011, 12:18:00 PM »

actually i think technically if a parent were to let their 13 year old (in america) have sex it would be considered child endangerment and the parents would get into trouble
That's a good point.

I think that if a parent let their kids have sex, then there is something wrong. The only way it would be okay if it was some religion. That's the only way I'd give it a semi-okay.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2011, 12:45:39 PM »

actually i think technically if a parent were to let their 13 year old (in america) have sex it would be considered child endangerment and the parents would get into trouble
That's a good point.

I think that if a parent let their kids have sex, then there is something wrong. The only way it would be okay if it was some religion. That's the only way I'd give it a semi-okay.
if someone is marrying off (or pimping) their thirteen-year-old for their religion, i think that's a good argument that their religion doesn't need to be allowed.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2011, 01:07:24 PM »

actually i think technically if a parent were to let their 13 year old (in america) have sex it would be considered child endangerment and the parents would get into trouble
That's a good point.

I think that if a parent let their kids have sex, then there is something wrong. The only way it would be okay if it was some religion. That's the only way I'd give it a semi-okay.
if someone is marrying off (or pimping) their thirteen-year-old for their religion, i think that's a good argument that their religion doesn't need to be allowed.

Ah, Ag! You always make such good points!
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2011, 01:18:38 PM »

i dunno how good a point that is, i mean i'm not really about banning religion of course.  except i'd like to abolish it, because even at its root it hurts people, but i'd like it to sort of abolish itself, and it's not doing that fast enough to suit me.  so you could say, like you could about most everything else, that i have both/conflicting opinions on the subject.


i'm pretty clear about not pushing your thirteen-year-old out there for sex, however.  i don't know a lot of 13 yo girls, period, but the ones i do know seem to have other problems to worry about without adding the horrors of sex to that list.


i'm thinking that sixteen is the age of consent here, too, but if you're over eighteen and you have sex with someone who is sixteen, you are still in danger of statutory rape charges.  of course, it's hard to know because stuff like that varies from state to state, also; the only hard and fast age rules in the us are drinking, voting, military enlistment, and giving blood.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2011, 01:38:04 PM »

hold on ...you can legally have sex with a 13 year old in the US? that is utterly stupid........

Seriously, you got this from the law I quoted?  It says that anyone (meaning ANYONE) who has sexual penetration (of any type or description) with anyone UNDER the age of 13 is guilty of Criminal Sexual Conduct First Degree.  Period.  How did you get that you can legally have sex with a 13-year-old from that?  Ages 13-16 is also a first degree offense if penetration is accomplished through one or more of the circumstances listed.  There are other degrees of CSC.  For example, a 17-year-old having consensual sex with his 15-year-old girlfriend is a third degree offense.  Sexual touching (non-penetration) is second degree if the victim is underaged and fourth degree (a misdemeanor) if the victim is 16 or older. 




See? That's what I'm saying. The only way a 13 year old could actually have sex with someone older than them would if the parents gave consent.
actually i think technically if a parent were to let their 13 year old (in america) have sex it would be considered child endangerment and the parents would get into trouble
That's a good point.

I think that if a parent let their kids have sex, then there is something wrong. The only way it would be okay if it was some religion. That's the only way I'd give it a semi-okay.

Not only would the parent get in trouble for child endangerment and/or risk having their child removed from their home, but, depending on the circumstances, the parent could be charged with criminal sexual conduct as well.  And rightfully so.  A 13-year-old is a child - that's why these laws exist.  Religious beliefs won't, and shouldn't, protect anyone.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2011, 01:44:18 PM »

hold on ...you can legally have sex with a 13 year old in the US? that is utterly stupid........

Seriously, you got this from the law I quoted?  It says that anyone (meaning ANYONE) who has sexual penetration (of any type or description) with anyone UNDER the age of 13 is guilty of Criminal Sexual Conduct First Degree.  Period.  How did you get that you can legally have sex with a 13-year-old from that?  Ages 13-16 is also a first degree offense if penetration is accomplished through one or more of the circumstances listed.  There are other degrees of CSC.  For example, a 17-year-old having consensual sex with his 15-year-old girlfriend is a third degree offense.  Sexual touching (non-penetration) is second degree if the victim is underaged and fourth degree (a misdemeanor) if the victim is 16 or older. 




See? That's what I'm saying. The only way a 13 year old could actually have sex with someone older than them would if the parents gave consent.
actually i think technically if a parent were to let their 13 year old (in america) have sex it would be considered child endangerment and the parents would get into trouble
That's a good point.

I think that if a parent let their kids have sex, then there is something wrong. The only way it would be okay if it was some religion. That's the only way I'd give it a semi-okay.

Not only would the parent get in trouble for child endangerment and/or risk having their child removed from their home, but, depending on the circumstances, the parent could be charged with criminal sexual conduct as well.  And rightfully so.  A 13-year-old is a child - that's why these laws exist.  Religious beliefs won't, and shouldn't, protect anyone.

Well they do. Look at the Sister Wives.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2011, 01:52:02 PM »

yeah, but polygamy is also illegal. 
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2011, 01:54:12 PM »

yeah, but polygamy is also illegal. 
THEN WHY HAVEN'T THOSE GUYS BE ARRESTED YET!

UGH, AMERICA IS STUPID!
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2011, 01:54:42 PM »

I don't watch television so I wnet to "Sister Wives" Wikepedia for a brief overview.  I didn't read anything about children having sex.  The legal issues seem to be polygamy and bigamy.  Did I miss something?
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2011, 01:59:24 PM »

yeah, but polygamy is also illegal.  
THEN WHY HAVEN'T THOSE GUYS BE ARRESTED YET!

UGH, AMERICA IS STUPID!
well, every criminal can't be arrested all at once, it doesn't work like that.  believe me, america's collective stupidity is waaaaaay more deep than that.

for one, they aren't that easy to track down, it's not like they rent an apartment building in the city and take out ads for more wives or whatever.  it's not even the established mormons who do it; it's spinoff groups.  sects, if you will.

a while back when the 'big love' series came on, they did some documentaries about polygamist families, and it was all very hush-hush as to last names or where they lived, because they are breaking the law, and also face backlash from other religious folk.


I don't watch television so I wnet to "Sister Wives" Wikepedia for a brief overview.  I didn't read anything about children having sex.  The legal issues seem to be polygamy and bigamy.  Did I miss something?
mockery was talking about young girls who are married off into polygamist families when they are twelve, and stuff.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2011, 02:02:33 PM »

yeah, but polygamy is also illegal.  
THEN WHY HAVEN'T THOSE GUYS BE ARRESTED YET!

UGH, AMERICA IS STUPID!
well, every criminal can't be arrested all at once, it doesn't work like that.  believe me, america's collective stupidity is waaaaaay more deep than that.

for one, they aren't that easy to track down, it's not like they rent an apartment building in the city and take out ads for more wives or whatever.  it's not even the established mormons who do it; it's spinoff groups.  sects, if you will.

a while back when the 'big love' series came on, they did some documentaries about polygamist families, and it was all very hush-hush as to last names or where they lived, because they are breaking the law, and also face backlash from other religious folk.

Well don't get wrong. I know that we can't go arresting everyone without proper evidence there are times where I feel like America keeps on getting more and more insane.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2011, 12:17:52 PM »

never understood polygamy in this context.....if you want to live with multipal partners then just go on and do so....marrying them seems like a bit of silly thing to do as it basically makes something perfectly legal to do into an illegal act
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2011, 12:32:39 PM »

The law is basically a hang over from Christian religious doctrine.... (again the bible seems be a tad sketchy on this one but basically says its OK to own concubines and sex slaves but one should only have one wife...or was it porcupines?)
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2011, 01:00:32 PM »

never understood polygamy in this context.....if you want to live with multipal partners then just go on and do so....marrying them seems like a bit of silly thing to do as it basically makes something perfectly legal to do into an illegal act

I suppose that marriage is an important thing to do whether it is legal or not, for some people.  Personally, I don't understand how people can love more than one person in a way that makes them want to marry them, but it obviously can and does happen.  Being married to all their partners has to be important enough to them to break the law.  I kind of think the law like this is not in the public interest, but more to keep things simple for the authorities. 
i think it's a religious thing, in the case of the breakaway mormons it is.  i can't remember how they fit it into their doctrine, or whatever we're calling it, but i remember thinking during the documentary that i really only oppose it because it doesn't work both ways; you don't see a woman with seven husbands, after all.  in other words, i'm cool with someone marrying whomever they want, and as many people as they want, so long as the people all know about it and want the same thing.  what i'm not cool with is when these families become separatists, not because i have a problem with them shunning the world, but because it's then easier to break the bigger laws, like child abuse (any sort, including marrying them), when one lives in a 'protective' community like that.

i think it being illegal has more to do with some very real cases of men having families in various towns who were completely unaware of one another.  and, of course, the legal ties involved in marriage aren't set up for groups, i'm sure there's a benefit somewhere someone would happily point out that they shouldn't be getting.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2011, 02:10:17 PM »

I was going to suggest a religious thing, but I've never seen the show, so I have no idea really what it's about other than the multiple marriages mentioned here.  If they were more integrated into community, as opposed to being separate, it would be a lot more accepted.  There's no harm in having multiple spouses (unless of course, as you said, it becomes a deception thing with different families) if everyone involved is happy with the situation.  I suppose there is a public interest if it's hurting people, having secret families, it's a difficult situation when religion allows them to have multiple wives in the same house but if it were legal, it could hurt people who don't follow a religion but simply want to marry lots of people and not tell them about each other.

there is a pervading idea that the 'mormons are polygamists.'  it's a misconception, as most mormons are pretty strict law-followers, as best as i know.  since i don't know a whole lot about the details of the mormon faith, i don't know where the idea came from, but i do know now that some separatist groups, as i said, practice polygamy.

i've only seen the one documentary, and the show 'big love' which is a really good show, but i don't base reality off of it or anything.  as i understand it, a man taking more than one wife is seen by these type of polygamists as a big thing, and a huge responsibility to the man, not just the benefit of 'having two women' or whatever.  like, it's something he earns, per se.  since of course it is a separatist group, there isn't a whole lot of control or regulating these ideas, of course, so worst-case scenarios reveal themselves from time to time. 

there have been arguments made that kids raised in a 'healthy' polygamist home are awesome, and so on, but no real study model, of course.  again you most often hear about the worst-case scenarios with the incest and child brides and all.  and, these types of stories make for hella awesome television.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2011, 02:58:59 PM »

It used to be accepted by the LDS Church in general.  The practice was started by Joseph Smith at the founding of the church. It wasn't until the U.S. government cracked down on the practice that the church denounced it.  The fundamentalist sects are the ones that cling to it still.

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2011, 03:15:42 PM »

It used to be accepted by the LDS Church in general.  The practice was started by Joseph Smith at the founding of the church. It wasn't until the U.S. government cracked down on the practice that the church denounced it.  The fundamentalist sects are the ones that cling to it still.
i thought it might have something to do with 'old school' mormons, but wasn't up on the facts enough to assert so.  i know nowadays they fight really hard to not be associated with polygamy.  and, i did know the breakaway sects were fundies.

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2011, 03:03:39 PM »

The law is basically a hang over from Christian religious doctrine.... (again the bible seems be a tad sketchy on this one but basically says its OK to own concubines and sex slaves but one should only have one wife...or was it porcupines?)

That was during the time. You were suppose to have more than wife. It was a sign of power.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2011, 09:04:58 AM »

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2011, 09:22:28 AM »

this is extremely relevent to the discussion as it was......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017823/Raped-12-gang-footballers-judge-frees--Victim-speaks-sickening-sex-attack.html

I think it's pedophilia. Thinking about how i was at 12, simply just a child unaware of any harms and how evil some people can be..

And i don't think what these little girls wanted to do with those guys matters. It's adolescence, they may want to do anything for which they'll regret for doing the other day.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2011, 09:29:09 AM »

indeed...and would have posted it in that thread too but it's been locked.....
the sheer stupidity of this whole thing is shocking......and for the perpetrators to genuinely seem to think that their behaviour was acceptable with any girls at any age is vile
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2011, 09:46:18 AM »

it really is disgusting. and i wouldn't like to have a daughter at this era.

last year such a thing has happened in Turkey too, it pissed me off to hell. because the guy was a 65 years old journalist working for a highly puritan muslim newspaper which helped him to get this over. he and his social environment is quite rich, while the girl is a cleaning woman's daughter and just 14 years old.
he and his supporters paid a bribe to the    pedagogues and child psychiatrists who examined the girl's mental state and they gave sworn statement in favour of the guy, the leading motive was that the girl wanted to have sex with him and that her mental state was not effected negatively.

later on, it became known that the guy had given a great deal of money to the girl's mother as dowry.

sometimes i think people should get educated and examined before they have children.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #91 on: July 23, 2011, 09:53:38 AM »

indeed passing a simple IQ test would seem appropriate.....
as for the sort of society that seems to be growing around footballers.......truly horrid..and one suspects that youth culture has begun to lose any moral compass it may have had, and for a justice system to seemingly condone this sort of behaviour is utterly abhorrent
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2011, 10:32:52 AM »

it's sick what they're doing. and it's even sicker the mentality that blames these little girls.

i was 17 and had a bf the same age as me. we dated for 5 months but i was not in love, so i did not feel like having sex with him and it got him angry with me.

apparently he wanted to trap me, oneday he invited me to his home saying his mother wanted to get to know me. i went there, but he was alone, and he attacked me. tried to push me down.
eventually i got so anxious that i had a nervous attack, couldn't stop bawling and shaking. i guess it shocked him, so he released me. so i could run away and come back to my home.
it's been 8 years, since then i had many other bfs. but i'm still afraid of trusting in guys and staying alone with someone i don't know well.

even my own mummy blamed me for going to his place. she still does.

and i think it's this mentality that lets rapists free of jail sentence. the women are always guilty, guilty for staying alone with guys, guilty for wearing mini skirts, guilty forwearing attractive perfumes, guilty for going out late at night, guilty for having a job, guilty for trusting people, etc.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #93 on: July 23, 2011, 10:35:40 AM »

the very idea of forcing someone against their will, to do something is abhorrent.........are most men really so governed by their penises? i rather doubt it....so sorry to hear about what happened to you
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #94 on: July 23, 2011, 10:53:34 AM »

i don't think all or most men are governed by their penises. but i still have a trust issue and i can't help it.

it's ok. i'm alright.

i just told it because i got pissed of by people who blamed those little girls.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #95 on: July 23, 2011, 10:57:26 AM »

indeed, and even if one of them was  "acting" more mature than her age.....it is probably because she was a victim of abuse already and had been taught that that was an appropriate way to act.....
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #96 on: July 23, 2011, 12:11:08 PM »

i don't think all or most men are governed by their penises. but i still have a trust issue and i can't help it.

it's ok. i'm alright.

i just told it because i got pissed of by people who blamed those little girls.

still wished it hadn't happened to you or anyone else
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further back:
Our forum before this one...

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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #97 on: July 23, 2011, 01:20:11 PM »

I didn't read everything because.... Well, because I'm a lazy tramp ;) But I think that the idea of expecting a child to know what they want in terms of sex is absurd. I had a terrible, immature attitude to sex until quite recently - basically until I tried actually having it in a loving relationship with someone I trust instead of a stranger from a bar xD But if you'd asked me two years ago, when I was 17, then I would have told you that I was ready for sex. I probably would have said it younger as well, actually. The responsibility lies absolutely with the adult to not expect that a child is going into the situation with the same maturity and attitude that they are.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #98 on: July 23, 2011, 01:39:46 PM »

indeed
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #99 on: July 23, 2011, 06:48:10 PM »

this is extremely relevent to the discussion as it was......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017823/Raped-12-gang-footballers-judge-frees--Victim-speaks-sickening-sex-attack.html
Not knowing your legal system, is there a higher appellate court?  Possibly one
with judges versed in such obscure concepts as age-of-consent?
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #100 on: July 23, 2011, 07:59:44 PM »

this is extremely relevent to the discussion as it was......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017823/Raped-12-gang-footballers-judge-frees--Victim-speaks-sickening-sex-attack.html
Not knowing your legal system, is there a higher appellate court?  Possibly one
with judges versed in such obscure concepts as age-of-consent?
The Supreme Court is higher than the Court of Appeal.  It is not as simple as the headline has suggested.  The court has not necessarily blamed the girl for her being raped, rather have decided that she was not raped at all.  Where this might be (and appears to be exceedingly) incorrect, their judgment is that it was consensual, not that it was deserved rape.  If I were her, or her parents, I would appeal to the Supreme Court.  More often than not decisions by the Appellate Court are overturned by the Supreme.  It appears to be a pattern, the more cases you study. 
Exactly the point of my question.

I mean, there are several states in the US where any sexual contact with a child under...
...typically 14, I think, carries a mandatory long prison term, regardless of any alleged
mitigating factors.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #101 on: July 23, 2011, 08:26:07 PM »

this is extremely relevent to the discussion as it was......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017823/Raped-12-gang-footballers-judge-frees--Victim-speaks-sickening-sex-attack.html
Not knowing your legal system, is there a higher appellate court?  Possibly one
with judges versed in such obscure concepts as age-of-consent?
The Supreme Court is higher than the Court of Appeal.  It is not as simple as the headline has suggested.  The court has not necessarily blamed the girl for her being raped, rather have decided that she was not raped at all.  Where this might be (and appears to be exceedingly) incorrect, their judgment is that it was consensual, not that it was deserved rape.  If I were her, or her parents, I would appeal to the Supreme Court.  More often than not decisions by the Appellate Court are overturned by the Supreme.  It appears to be a pattern, the more cases you study.  
Exactly the point of my question.

I mean, there are several states in the US where any sexual contact with a child under...
...typically 14, I think, carries a mandatory long prison term, regardless of any alleged
mitigating factors.

it's bullshit they believed those jerks' statement, that "girls looked as if they were 16 and they were the ones who wanted to have sex blablabla". crap...
since when such pedophiles are honest? since when it's ok to have sex with children just because they wanted to do so?
and it's also bullshit that a full court room of people didn't realize how bullshit it was.

i think it should be the mandatory long prison penalty without even asking for their comments.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #102 on: August 05, 2011, 02:17:21 AM »

this weekend is we fest (a huge country festival  :puke: ) and since my MIL works at a crisis center, a lot of the stuff she has to deal with this weekend is girls who have been raped by drunk guys, i know it's extremely hard for her to deal with it, and i know that she tries to help them as best as she can, but it's hard in little towns like this where people are very judge-y. they all automatically assume that it's the girls fault because they're wearing short skirts and flashing boys and are drunk...it's quite horrible  :-\
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2011, 11:12:04 AM »

It sounds horrible.

I think there needs to be a limit on how much someone can consume at a festival. Drinking at festivals never ends well. Unless it's Octoberfest.
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2011, 11:15:38 AM »

actually you just need better management of responsible staff........try to restrict drink and it will go underground and become even more dangerous
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2011, 02:34:06 PM »

staffing is only part of the issue...they all stay at this huge huge huge campground that they have no way near enough people to cover. the MIL's work usually hands out things like rape whistles and other things to try to help prevent anything bad happening, but they still end up having a bunch of people who get raped every year
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #106 on: October 26, 2012, 02:56:38 AM »

In my opinion the word is being used as a way of taking some weight off it.  Since men all around the world feel the right to use it in any situation :
 you are dressed in a provocative way, ure a slut
You cheated ure a slut
You broke up and soon got a new bf ure a slut
You rejected him ure a slut
You chose just to make out and not have sex, ure a slut

All of them mistakes that both genders make, however men just for being men  feel the right to insult women, denigrate them or judge them for their actions.

Therefore i think the point of calling all women to the slutwalk, is a  way to try to take some negativity off the word, make it less offensive for women, so that the next time some douchebag calls her a slut she wont feel  as  denigrated, since we are all sluts to their ignorant sexist minds.

All that besides the main rape story behind it :P
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Re: SlutWalks
« Reply #107 on: October 27, 2012, 12:27:22 AM »

...and still, no one's posted pictures.   :'(

I'm gonna file a false-advertising complaint on this thread.    ;)
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