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Author Topic: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist  (Read 88945 times)

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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2011, 07:16:49 PM »

anorexia=willpower.

Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in a long time. I would put forth a longer argument but what's the point. If you really believe something that stupid then nothing I say will change your mind.

I'd like to point out that nobody actually said that.  I'm very frustraited with two straw man versions of what I said that most people seem to have read:

Actually, you did.
At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.
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Tiervexx

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2011, 07:23:35 PM »

anorexia=willpower.

Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in a long time. I would put forth a longer argument but what's the point. If you really believe something that stupid then nothing I say will change your mind.

I'd like to point out that nobody actually said that.  I'm very frustraited with two straw man versions of what I said that most people seem to have read:

Actually, you did.
At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.



I went on to explain what I meant.  What I meant to say was that I thought restraining hunger takes willpower.

I could have been wrong as I said but you are running with the worst interpretation of what I said.  I admit the statement came out wrong.  Sorry.

Are you too perfect to misspeak?
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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2011, 07:51:48 PM »

anorexia=willpower.

Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in a long time. I would put forth a longer argument but what's the point. If you really believe something that stupid then nothing I say will change your mind.

I'd like to point out that nobody actually said that.  I'm very frustraited with two straw man versions of what I said that most people seem to have read:

Actually, you did.
At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.



I went on to explain what I meant.  What I meant to say was that I thought restraining hunger takes willpower.

I could have been wrong as I said but you are running with the worst interpretation of what I said.  I admit the statement came out wrong.  Sorry.

Are you too perfect to misspeak?

I'm far from perfect, no one is perfect but what you said was ridiculous and I and several other people called you on it. End of discussion.
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Tiervexx

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2011, 08:03:02 PM »

anorexia=willpower.

Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in a long time. I would put forth a longer argument but what's the point. If you really believe something that stupid then nothing I say will change your mind.

I'd like to point out that nobody actually said that.  I'm very frustraited with two straw man versions of what I said that most people seem to have read:

Actually, you did.
At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.



I went on to explain what I meant.  What I meant to say was that I thought restraining hunger takes willpower.

I could have been wrong as I said but you are running with the worst interpretation of what I said.  I admit the statement came out wrong.  Sorry.

Are you too perfect to misspeak?

I'm far from perfect, no one is perfect but what you said was ridiculous and I and several other people called you on it. End of discussion.

I admitted I misspoke and apologized.  I don't understand why people have to get high and mighty over such things.
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Tiervexx

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2011, 08:13:32 PM »

anorexia=willpower.

Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in a long time. I would put forth a longer argument but what's the point. If you really believe something that stupid then nothing I say will change your mind.

I'd like to point out that nobody actually said that.  I'm very frustraited with two straw man versions of what I said that most people seem to have read:

Actually, you did.
At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.



I went on to explain what I meant.  What I meant to say was that I thought restraining hunger takes willpower.

I could have been wrong as I said but you are running with the worst interpretation of what I said.  I admit the statement came out wrong.  Sorry.

Are you too perfect to misspeak?

I'm far from perfect, no one is perfect but what you said was ridiculous and I and several other people called you on it. End of discussion.

I admitted I misspoke and apologized.  I don't understand why people have to get high and mighty over such things.

'Sorry, but you're not perfect either' and 'Sorry, but you're all overreacting' is not an apology. 
Not attacking you, just 'sorry, but' is never a good apology, it's something I try very hard to avoid doing - it's not easy.

I agree, I was still being a bit confrontational.

I read your statement more that anorexia includes willpower, not equals it.  And I didn't take away from what you said that willpower in that situation is an awesome, healthy thing.  You're just goading people into responding by basterdising your apology.

Thank you, it's nice to know someone did not totally bastardize what I said.
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2011, 09:19:34 PM »

I probably shouldn’t jump in because people are explaining themselves but…

Sometimes obsessiveness starts with willpower - I suppose it would be more appropriate to call it diligence rather than obsession at that stage. Of course, once an action is habitual it doesn’t require willpower to maintain it – it’s force of habit from that point on. Nonetheless, the diligent and the obsessive can appear similar to observers. Additionally, people often want to move on from requiring willpower (to accomplish goals) and get to a point where they can do things habitually (ie eat fruit instead of chocolate out of habit). I can see why people might be in awe of habituation on those grounds even if the habit is destructive. It's an aspect of the frame of mind that intrigues them and not necessarily the awful reality of having an unbreakable rule owning you.  

 
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Agonistes

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2011, 12:01:36 AM »

Quote
This thread has way too many sizeist, ableist and sexist statements absolutely rife with intolerance and ignorance.

the preceding sentence offends me because it is full of non-words invented by 'political correctness,' which is, as i have said time and again, yet another form of exclusion.  i don't think anyone in this thread meant to commit these word crimes, and it bothers me that people take their own problems and project them onto a thread about aesthetics, where no one meant any harm.  correct them gently or point out their mistakes in wording as you see them?  sure, but don't try to make out like these guys meant to insult you, personally.  taking this shit personally doesn't make anything anyone's fault in this case.  it just makes people who shouldn't have to take responsibility for someone else's feelings of shortcoming.

Although typically they are functionally indistinguishable, there is a difference between "politically correct" and "non-discriminating" language. These are words used to describe the ways in which we show preference for one type of person over another: ways in which we show prejudice. What I did in my initial post was correct people gently and point out their mistakes in wording as I saw them. I don't think at any point I "made out like [those] guys meant to insult [me], personally." Where appropriate, I provided examples of how their language was alienating to me and thereby had the potential to be alienating to other members of the community.

I've taken nothing personally. I have, however, been adversely affected by the language used in this thread. People shouldn't have to take responsibility for someone else's feelings of shortcoming, you're right. They should have to take responsibility for developing systems of language which do not alienate members of their community.

i should point out an opinion of mine to begin with.  it explains a lot with my reaction to your post.  that is, i am perpetually irritated by attempts to amend language, which is a naturally progressive thing, into something more palatable for people who can't handle certain words.  if words are ideas then abolishing words or phrases or manners of speaking is as bad as burning a book.  this extends from lesbian separatists who fuck with the spelling of the word 'woman' (i.e. wymon, womon, wimmin, wymobyn, whatever), to people who tell me what words i can and cannot use ('that is OUR word' for example.  shit, man, i never even wanted to say it until you said i couldn't).  that opinion of mine really has nothing to do with you, other than we fundamentally disagree on whether or not someone has the responsibility to change this.  i don't feel i have the responsibility to change this.  if someone uses a word in hate, that's on them.  if i use the same word in jest or in a tone that i think implies humor, it's a completely different thing, i feel.

that said, rudeness is still rudeness, and i don't like rudeness.  i do admit i was probably rude in my statement (which seemed at the time like i was in context but in retrospect might not have been), for which i apologize and repeat that i meant no one any harm, nor any generalization.  i do, however, understand why it was difficult to give me the benefit of the doubt since i said something that hit a trigger for you, but sometimes it's nice to just hang out and not worry about what i say as a dash off a post to a thread i'm reading as i fall asleep.

in the end what i am trying to say is it's not the word that is the culprit.  it is the speaker.  sure there are words to avoid in some situations, but that's because using them would be inflammatory or rude, not because they exist.   language is what it is, and it evolves like it does, and trying to force it into a place of non-offensive barrier from natural progression of words is wrong, because frankly, it is against the nature of the thing.
Quote
regarding the aesthetics of bewbies; big is not always best; a good handful is probably ideal.  however, the two women i have been attracted to the most in my life both have/had pretty sizable racks.

Referring to the size of breasts in terms of personal preference (as sylvia did) is a lot less alienating than stating it almost as fact that "a good handful is probably ideal." I have a good deal more than a "good handful" and I'd like to think that my body type suits SOMEONE'S preference.


well, misinterpreting a casual statement and deciding that, instead of giving fellow shadowboxers the benefit of the doubt about whether or not they meant any personal preference or were actually being insulting TO YOU is pretty alienating as well as ignorant.  since this IS a 'safe place' to me, i feel more able to allow my hair down enough to assume that no one will apply misinterpretive meaning to what i might have said, no matter how laconic my wording is, knowing from my continued presence on the box that i don't mean any harm by what i have said.  i've apologized profusely more than once when i have thought i have been insulting, even inadvertently, but i am not going to apologize for something someone assumed responsibility for owning out of the blue, blue sky.  just because i don't use the 'acceptable' types of speech in one's perception doesn't mean i have actually insulted anyone, either.  if i can't speak freely here, i don't see many places i can, honestly.

since i was stating my own preference (and referring to many women i have dated), i would assume it was more than obvious that i didn't speak for everyone's ideal, and therefore cannot accept responsibility for you projecting my casual statement about my personal aesthetics onto your own feelings of self.  what the hell do you care what i am attracted to?  how does that have any bearing on you as a person?  it wasn't meant to, and therefore shouldn't.

I apologize for misinterpreting your statement. Typically a misinterpretation isn't a decision one makes. You have never seen my body before; it would be outlandish for me to take that as a personal insult. I was remarking on the language you used which seemed to me to imply (from the lack of indication that you were, in fact, speaking of personal preference in your sentence structure) that generally, to everyone whose sexual orientation includes people with breasts, a handful is ideal. Again, I apologize for misinterpreting your language. I was not assuming ownership, I was providing a personal example.

You can speak as freely as you'd like here. I can too, and that includes critiquing your language and pointing out different ways in which it can be interpreted.

As I feel I've already presented, I don't care what you're attracted to, but I do care what you imply everyone is attracted to. I misinterpreted you; you've acknowledged this. What I critiqued is not what you meant so why are you upset with me for critiquing what you did mean?

As for its bearing on me as a person: sweeping generalized statements have bearing on everyone. Your personal preference has no bearing on me, but your statements that imply what everyone prefers do.

i disagree that i implied anything.  as i said i can understand where your reaction might have come from regarding what i did say, but i don't agree with your assessment of it.  i understand that you feel that i did, and i accept your judgement since it really doesn't affect what i meant in the first place, but i have to admit you hit a sore spot with me...hence the strength of my tone in response.

it's no secret i come from alabama, probably.  it's also no secret that alabama, among other states, has about three hundred years of bad racial history.  like it or not, i am a part of that history because i'm from here, and 'white.'  i have been in the unique position of having more than two skinheads in the same room as three black gangstas, and accepting the business of all of them without incident or even tenseness.  i am quite used to, when i travel outside the southeast, being immediately judged on everything from my intelligence to my racial preferences, to whether or not i fuck my cousins as i run around in my imaginary white sheet, because of misconceptions, assumptions, and even outright negative propaganda dating back to about 1840 or so.  the truth of the matter is, there is no convincing me that every single human on this planet is not a racist, sexist, ageist, etc, from birth.  exclusion is human nature as much as being gregarious creatures (if this were not true, we would not, for example, have so many sects of christianity).  reverse racism is as rampant as the 'known' kind.  my point in fighting this is that we, as civilized beings, must fight the urge to ACT on these impulses, as surely as, being civilized, we fight the urge to put our elbows on the table or cuss in front of grandma or refrain from fucking children.  we do it out of respect for others and a sense of empathy, and that is a good thing.  empathy should be widely encouraged.  but it does not come naturally to humanity.  any belief that it does or should is, in my opinion, incorrect.  overcoming them is the key.  having shame because we have them is not.

my upset comes from both being misinterpreted, and also lectured on this misinterpretation.  and, i won't lie; it bothers me that you seem to have issues that DO trigger an off-the-cuff remark into a personal sort of mein; i neither stated others should feel the way i do, nor did i state that the 'ideal' i spoke of was anything other than something i sorta like.  in the context of this thread, i don't feel i answered incorrectly.  and, it bugs me when an innocent statement of mine (i grant you it was awkward and probably made too hastily) is interpreted and personalized into a meaning i never intended, and i do feel you personalized it by saying the following:

'Referring to the size of breasts in terms of personal preference (as sylvia did) is a lot less alienating than stating it almost as fact that "a good handful is probably ideal." I have a good deal more than a "good handful" and I'd like to think that my body type suits SOMEONE'S preference.'

i'm not trying to nitpick your words.  however, you went there almost immediately, and i honestly don't feel i said anything to refer to you, or your body type, or whether or not anyone finds it hot.  hell, i would probably find you hot, i am an equal opportunity pervert.  in fact, the whole 'more than a handful' phrase comes from many discussions i have had with guys i've worked with about women who augment their bewbies....and the original context i heard it in was to state that augmenting a perfectly good, albeit smallish, pair of breasts was just a waste of time, effort, siloicone, and money.  there is no point destroying something to make it into something it will never look correct being, in other words.

which, if you think about it, is the same construct i apply to language.  let it be what it is.  restricting it only makes it into restricted language; words fall out of use when you don't need them, not when you try to abolish them.
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CottonCandy

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2011, 02:15:24 AM »



regarding the aesthetics of bewbies; big is not always best; a good handful is probably ideal.  however, the two women i have been attracted to the most in my life both have/had pretty sizable racks.

What is "good handful" exactly? Boobs you can enturely cover with a cupped hand, ones that leave a bit over? And if the ideal is good handful then maybe girls with slightly bigger boobs just need to find a partner with bigger hands...

Surely it's what fits your frame. I was very skinny teenager and 34B (UK, 75B european, don't know uS sizes sorry). Since I've put on quite a bit of weight gradually... I'm possibly little bit overweight according to bmi but much more active and happier with my body, and my boobs are 32E(or 70E). They have always fitted my frame though! I would've looked ridiculous if I had had these boobs when I was skinny.

Problem 1: If you've gained weight, your band size should be bigger, not smaller. The only way this could be the case is that you were wearing improperly sized bras as a very skinny teenager.

Problem 2: You're suggesting that ALL of my future partner's need shaquille o'neal's hands. I haven't had a single partner who could contain one of my breasts in both of their hands (and I've had partners with very large hands), and I don't mind, and they haven't minded and maybe you shouldn't tell me how small my boobs should be and what I should look for in a partner based on my body type.

Problem 3: My bra size is 30H. I have these boobs. I am this skinny. I'd like to think I don't look ridiculous even though by your definition my boobs don't "fit my frame."

How about we stop making sweeping generalizations on what anyone's body should be, or what anyone with a certain body type should do, or what anyone with a certain body type should wear?

Problem 1: I think that might've happened too, though I have noticed my existing weight shifting around...

Problem 2: I was only referring to the post I quoted, and I find the "handful is enough" statement a bit ridiculous. I'm sorry if the joke didn't translate online, but I was just trying to point out how silly the idea of a handful being enough is... Who judges it exactly?

Problem 3: If you have that sized boobs naturally in a skinny frame, I doubt it looks ridiculous, it probably does fit your frame. I've got friends with surprisingly big bra sizes too (as in, you look at them and by no means think they look out-of-proportion, but they have very large cupsizes...)

I understand that this is a sensitive topic, though, and emotions flare up easily... I probably should refrain from commenting if I'm getting misunderstood.
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Mr. Leave Me Alone

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2011, 02:28:07 AM »

anorexia=willpower.

Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in a long time. I would put forth a longer argument but what's the point. If you really believe something that stupid then nothing I say will change your mind.

I'd like to point out that nobody actually said that.  I'm very frustraited with two straw man versions of what I said that most people seem to have read:

Actually, you did.
At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.



I went on to explain what I meant.  What I meant to say was that I thought restraining hunger takes willpower.

I could have been wrong as I said but you are running with the worst interpretation of what I said.  I admit the statement came out wrong.  Sorry.

Are you too perfect to misspeak?

When you were first argued with on this, you brought out the 'no, I'm right, I know more about mental illness than you'. If you'd dropped it or apologised for saying the wrong thing in the first place, none of this would have happened. But you didn't and more people got offended.
Whether you intended it that way or not, people have responded to a flawed point of view about it and said some important and very true things that came out of experience or what they've learned. I hope you learned enough to consider that the way you thought it was might not be how it really is.

Let's make it simple.

Beauty = whatever the fuck YOU think is beautiful.

Tell that to the media.
Don't listen to the media.
The media doesn't even come into this, dudes. Not unless you let the more popular opinions of the media dictate all your interests (I can't imagine why you'd be on the shadowbox if that were so).
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2011, 03:31:49 AM »

Let's make it simple.

Beauty = whatever the fuck YOU think is beautiful.

Tell that to the media.
Don't listen to the media.
The media doesn't even come into this, dudes. Not unless you let the more popular opinions of the media dictate all your interests (I can't imagine why you'd be on the shadowbox if that were so).
The media is pretty pervasive though. Opinions on big issues are slow changing but people are susceptible to accommodating enduring motifs.  Insidious stuff is the media - especially the stuff that sits there without anyone saying much about it.
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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #85 on: June 14, 2011, 07:44:28 AM »

Thats true, but in this case, someone is saying 'if you find it beautiful, you find it beautiful, your opinion is your very own blah blah blah', which might still be the one that ~*the media*~ is ramming down your throat, but its still yours, not the one you opened a gossip rag right just then to get.
The media might be persuasive but if you can think on your own enough to disagree even a little or even totally, crazily, passionately agree with what they are saying, then what the frogster said still holds up.

Aaand im on my phone at work so if this post is nonsense i will come back to it later.
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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2011, 01:02:29 PM »

Fuck, what the hell did I start?
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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2011, 06:31:32 PM »



regarding the aesthetics of bewbies; big is not always best; a good handful is probably ideal.  however, the two women i have been attracted to the most in my life both have/had pretty sizable racks.

What is "good handful" exactly? Boobs you can enturely cover with a cupped hand, ones that leave a bit over? And if the ideal is good handful then maybe girls with slightly bigger boobs just need to find a partner with bigger hands...

Surely it's what fits your frame. I was very skinny teenager and 34B (UK, 75B european, don't know uS sizes sorry). Since I've put on quite a bit of weight gradually... I'm possibly little bit overweight according to bmi but much more active and happier with my body, and my boobs are 32E(or 70E). They have always fitted my frame though! I would've looked ridiculous if I had had these boobs when I was skinny.

Problem 1: If you've gained weight, your band size should be bigger, not smaller. The only way this could be the case is that you were wearing improperly sized bras as a very skinny teenager.

Problem 2: You're suggesting that ALL of my future partner's need shaquille o'neal's hands. I haven't had a single partner who could contain one of my breasts in both of their hands (and I've had partners with very large hands), and I don't mind, and they haven't minded and maybe you shouldn't tell me how small my boobs should be and what I should look for in a partner based on my body type.

Problem 3: My bra size is 30H. I have these boobs. I am this skinny. I'd like to think I don't look ridiculous even though by your definition my boobs don't "fit my frame."

How about we stop making sweeping generalizations on what anyone's body should be, or what anyone with a certain body type should do, or what anyone with a certain body type should wear?

Problem 1: I think that might've happened too, though I have noticed my existing weight shifting around...

Problem 2: I was only referring to the post I quoted, and I find the "handful is enough" statement a bit ridiculous. I'm sorry if the joke didn't translate online, but I was just trying to point out how silly the idea of a handful being enough is... Who judges it exactly?

Problem 3: If you have that sized boobs naturally in a skinny frame, I doubt it looks ridiculous, it probably does fit your frame. I've got friends with surprisingly big bra sizes too (as in, you look at them and by no means think they look out-of-proportion, but they have very large cupsizes...)

I understand that this is a sensitive topic, though, and emotions flare up easily... I probably should refrain from commenting if I'm getting misunderstood.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I don't want to deter people from commenting. When I read that initially, I understood that it was a light-hearted comment, but it felt inappropriate to me as a response to my initial post. I apologize for being so harsh.
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Tiervexx

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2011, 07:07:24 PM »

Sometimes people's emotions and immediate impressions cloud a further examination (if there is one to be found) of what has been said.

I do think that some people are being way too sensitive about this comment.  No, I'm not saying you don't have the right to be 'sensitive' about matters, I'm not quashing your freedom of expression (because I know someone is going to say that I am) but message board posts can be extremely ambiguous.  (In my opinion) not once did Tiervexx suggest that anorexia was an admirable thing, regarding willpower.  Anorexia is not THE SAME for everybody who suffers from it.  For some it takes no 'willpower' although I would like to replace that word with something more appropriate but can't think of one right now - for some it takes a lot of self-restraint.  It's pretty stupid to assume that Tiervexx's comment is offensive and cannot be true because that is not what YOU have experienced. 

RE: depression etc.  When I suffered from depression, the 'logical' thing WAS to seek help.  Most people know they need help because it is not right to feel the way they do.  That does not mean that the most logical thing to do was the easiest - in fact it was the hardest.  I had to be forced, almost physically, to the point of getting help. 

Thank you.  I know that my communication skills are a little off so I'm so happy that someone understood what I was actually trying to say.

I think the main problem with my statement was the use of the word "willpower."  A lot of people seem to think it has positive connotations so therefore I must have been saying something positive about anorexia.  I generally don't think about positive or negative connotations because I don't think they are too subjective.

I'm very sorry you had problems with depression.  One of my close friends regularly makes posts on facebook suggesting she still wants to die sooner rather than latter and I hate reading them.  And yes, she is already heavily medicated for it (when she has not had her medication it's 40 times worse!).
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist
« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2011, 07:23:07 PM »

Thats true, but in this case, someone is saying 'if you find it beautiful, you find it beautiful, your opinion is your very own blah blah blah', which might still be the one that ~*the media*~ is ramming down your throat, but its still yours, not the one you opened a gossip rag right just then to get.
Fair enough… But yet it can be a little disconcerting to find that you might have unwittingly acquired a taste for something that is objectionable in some form just because it’s floating around in the media. I've picked up words I want to ditch.

The media might be persuasive but if you can think on your own enough to disagree even a little or even totally, crazily, passionately agree with what they are saying, then what the frogster said still holds up.
Generally agree but will say that Photo’s of photoshopped perfection do take a toll. It’s hard to argue aesthetics because a great image is great even if the intentions behind it are manipulative.   

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