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[The Angel Raliel]

yep more of that over bigger bits of cloth.....all you need to know really....also ribbons, belts, straps etc can be used in interesting ways to make anything "fit" (most of my frock coats and tail coats have corseted backs for this very reason)

[tanqgirl]

actually, i do sew my own clothes thank you very much    but it takes so much time, which i do currently have, but no money to buy a whole lot of fabric (actually i do have a really cute dress idea that i did buy fabric for and was gonna make but then i had my black hole issue and then we moved and now i cant find the damn fabric  )

and i dont do trends at all, i wear what i like, like hell i would TOTALLY dress like a hair metal person RIGHT NOW, which i probably could if i went through all my clothes lol

[Agonistes]

i'm another one who has dated girls ranging from itty bitty to rather large-boned, let's call it.  i've never dated anyone taller than me, i seem to like em small and mean, but i'm pretty ambivalent about girth from my own point of view unless it gets in the unhealthy range, and it has, and i've managed to herald discussions without treading on feelings, pretty much.

i learned to deal with not being terribly hot a long time ago.  however, i've never really been obese, although i've trod on the heavy side.  i find my weight tends to stay even so long as i eat consistently; if i eat too much crap for a long period of time, there is a weight i stay at, and if i take care of my food and get some exercise, i find myself at a significantly smaller weight without much notice in between.  i have also noticed i tend to be heaviest when i'm not happy.  but, what i am attracted to is pretty much the person, although i do want the person i look at the most to be on the healthy side of whatever weight they carry best.

regarding the aesthetics of bewbies; big is not always best; a good handful is probably ideal.  however, the two women i have been attracted to the most in my life both have/had pretty sizable racks.

[slyvia k]

if i had to pick btw woman number one and woman number two, i'd pick number one. that's how ''perverted'' i am.
(i'm really not a fan of big cleavage. at all. but honestly, i think it's all about proportions. if the girl in the first pic - yes, she could definitely gain a bit of weight, for her health - had big boobs, it would be really gross and unnatural)

[Tiervexx]

That's actually kind of offensive. You say that somehow being anorexic takes willpower. You couldn't be further from the truth. When someone has real anorexia, they CAN'T eat. It has nothing to do with not wanting to eat. It takes enormous amounts of willpower for them to actually overcome that disorder and eat something. While it may take willpower for people without anorexia to stick to a diet, for people who do have it, there's no choice.

I believe that is slightly off.

Anorexics still experience hunger and they want, BADLY to eat, they just can't get past the feeling that they should not.

To clarify this debate I think I should define what I mean by willpower.  Willpower is the ability to force yourself to do what you think should be done.  It has nothing at all to do with how warped your perception of what ought to be done is.

For a healthy human being without any serious psychological issues (which I assume you are), that might be difficult to understand, but try.

A disastrously wrong assumption.  My experiences with schizophrenia allow me to understand mental illnesses better than any mentally healthy person who simply studied it.

...and I think that the temptation to compare anorexia to depression or anxiety disorder like you did is a misunderstanding.  Depressed people might want to cheer up but just can't.  People with anxiety disorder want to feel less stress but just can't.  Meanwhile people with strong eating disorders or psychotic delusions feel tempted to believe that their warped perception of self and/or their delusion is the true way to go!  They can know on some level that something is wrong with them but deep inside, but a part of them at least will insist that there is nothing to be cured.

What I know through my own experiences is that having a strong willpower can actually work against you if you are mentally ill.  This is because the mental illness changes what you think ought to be done, not necessarily your ability to carry it out.

For example, many people might see the urge to just go with the group because their the group is a weakness but that urge might stop a schizophrenic from doing what they think they know is right.  Likewise, giving into their body's natural desire to eat might stop an anorexic from doing what they really want to do.  That's what I mean when I say the ones who starve themselves are showing strength, it's just that the strength is misdirected because of their mental illness.

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

I had anorexia and was very sick. I stopped myself from eating food and at first it was 'just a diet' and took a bit of willpower, but after I started to actually get sick, it took none at all. The idea of food made me feel sick. When I did eat, I swore I could feel big slimy globs of fat sliding through my body and making me huge. There were absolutely times that I was hungry, but I convinced myself that it was a good feeling and meant that I was doing okay. Also, the whole time, I didn't think that not eating was doing the right thing and I had to keep on with it. I didn't think I was skinny and that it was good. I genuinely didn't realise I was sick or that anything was different. Half the time I was too out of it to consider what I was doing, let alone use my magical willpower to stop myself eating and the rest of the time, I thought I was still huge and eating heaps. I existed pretty much entirely on these energy tablet things my friend showed me, diet coke and cigarettes. And the occasional slice of toast. I was scared that things like fat and calories were coming into my skin through the air. It didn't take willpower because every other way I could possibly live disgusted me and made me feel like I was going to explode or something. People have died from this, by the way.

What did take willpower was starting to eat again. That was the only time during that part of my life that I was 'forcing myself to do what I thought should be done'.
I'd also go as far as to say that I'm incredibly offended, more than I have been by anything in a very, very long time. Don't suggest that the worst thing that has ever happened to me and many, many other people is simply a display of 'willpower'.

Having problems with mental illness doesn't mean you understand all the other kinds better than anyone else, mentally well or not. I would never ever suggest that I understand schizophrenia better than someone who has 'simply studied it' just because I have had other problems. I don't. Just like you apparently have no comprehension of what anorexia really is.

I'll come back to this later. I'm pissed right off at the moment and I don't think I am going to be able to say anything constructive to help the above to make sense.

[Sarah Doll]

I don't have anorexia or claim to understand it as everyone has different experiences with any problem, but I have my own food/brain issues that have pretty much halted my life and slowed it down for almost the past two years. I agree that the willpower comes in when you're trying to go against what your instincts are telling you. I've stood crying for at least an hour at times trying to make myself do something that part of my brain was telling me it didn't want to. And I have no delusions about my problem.. I don't think it's the right thing to be doing but undoing that much mental reprogramming is fucking hard.

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

Yes, people have different experiences, but I have never met or heard of a person with an eating disorder in my entire life that would be cool with people suggesting that their disease is about willpower. Except for the getting better bit.

[Mockery]

Wow, this thread has really took off.

Eating disorders can't be solved that easily. I know that. I've watched people struggle with it. It's the same with any type of problem like addictions and the like. It takes time and patience for people to over come it.

[Pope Totalfrog]

anorexia=willpower.

Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in a long time. I would put forth a longer argument but what's the point. If you really believe something that stupid then nothing I say will change your mind.

[The Epigrammic Poultry]

I wanted to say that I am tired of hearing grossly overweight people talk about how proud they are not to be anorexic.  At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.

so does putting a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger.

#@!

Absolutely.  Does not mean you should do it but it does take a type of strength to kill yourself.  It takes no strength to over eat.  That's my point.  Most people want to skip workout sand eat huge amounts of junk food.

No. It takes strength for someone with suicidal thoughts to not kill themselves and not die. Just like it takes a lot strength for someone with a serious undereating disorder to actually eat more and not die. Just like someone with an overeating disorder (and don't pretend there's no such thing) to actually eat less and not die.

[Musings]

^agree with totalfrog and Mr. Leave Me Alone


Plus, saying one body disorder is better than another is fucked up when both are unhealthy and caused by biochemistry.  By the by, I have never heard an obese person be proud that they don't have anorexia.  Don't know who Tiervexx is talking to.  Many clinically obese people are struggling with depression, self-image issues, and self-esteem issues, just like many anorexic people.

And, saying that having schizophrenia allows one the better judge ALL mental health issues than on who takes an objective view and may have studied a broader range of causes and effects of mental health issues is fucked up.

[insignifikunt]

I wanted to say that I am tired of hearing grossly overweight people talk about how proud they are not to be anorexic.  At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.

so does putting a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger.

#@!

Absolutely.  Does not mean you should do it but it does take a type of strength to kill yourself.  It takes no strength to over eat.  That's my point.  Most people want to skip workout sand eat huge amounts of junk food.

That's actually kind of offensive. You say that somehow being anorexic takes willpower. You couldn't be further from the truth. When someone has real anorexia, they CAN'T eat. It has nothing to do with not wanting to eat. It takes enormous amounts of willpower for them to actually overcome that disorder and eat something. While it may take willpower for people without anorexia to stick to a diet, for people who do have it, there's no choice.
And the same thing goes for people who overeat. It's NEVER a case of "I just want to eat and I don't care if I get fat or die". In a lot of cases it's a disorder just like anorexia. Just like anorexics can't make themselves eat, people with a binge eating disorder often can't make themselves not eat. For a healthy human being without any serious psychological issues (which I assume you are), that might be difficult to understand, but try.
You make it sound like binge eaters just lack willpower while anorexics are just really goal-oriented and will do whatever it takes to be really skinny. It often starts that way, but saying that it's all there is to it, is incredibly offensive.

It's like saying people who suffer from depression should just cheer up, or people with anxiety disorders are just cowards.

THIS!!!!!

[Agonistes]

anorexia=willpower.

Has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in a long time. I would put forth a longer argument but what's the point. If you really believe something that stupid then nothing I say will change your mind.

if an anorexic can overcome their illness with willpower then why not just expect alcoholics, addicts, and other personality disorders to suck it up and just get over it?

good god.  if the majority of us could act right, don't you think we would?  it's awfully easy to judge from one's armchair.

[insignifikunt]

I had anorexia and was very sick. I stopped myself from eating food and at first it was 'just a diet' and took a bit of willpower, but after I started to actually get sick, it took none at all. The idea of food made me feel sick. When I did eat, I swore I could feel big slimy globs of fat sliding through my body and making me huge. There were absolutely times that I was hungry, but I convinced myself that it was a good feeling and meant that I was doing okay. Also, the whole time, I didn't think that not eating was doing the right thing and I had to keep on with it. I didn't think I was skinny and that it was good. I genuinely didn't realise I was sick or that anything was different. Half the time I was too out of it to consider what I was doing, let alone use my magical willpower to stop myself eating and the rest of the time, I thought I was still huge and eating heaps. I existed pretty much entirely on these energy tablet things my friend showed me, diet coke and cigarettes. And the occasional slice of toast. I was scared that things like fat and calories were coming into my skin through the air. It didn't take willpower because every other way I could possibly live disgusted me and made me feel like I was going to explode or something. People have died from this, by the way.

What did take willpower was starting to eat again. That was the only time during that part of my life that I was 'forcing myself to do what I thought should be done'.
I'd also go as far as to say that I'm incredibly offended, more than I have been by anything in a very, very long time. Don't suggest that the worst thing that has ever happened to me and many, many other people is simply a display of 'willpower'.

Having problems with mental illness doesn't mean you understand all the other kinds better than anyone else, mentally well or not. I would never ever suggest that I understand schizophrenia better than someone who has 'simply studied it' just because I have had other problems. I don't. Just like you apparently have no comprehension of what anorexia really is.

I'll come back to this later. I'm pissed right off at the moment and I don't think I am going to be able to say anything constructive to help the above to make sense.

AND THIS!!!!

@Tiervexx I've got depression, an anxiety disorder and i've had anorexia, bulimia and binge eating disorder, and now i'd probably be classed has EDNOS (eating disorder not otherwise specified)

 When I was anorexic sometimes i felt hungry BUT i never wanted to eat and especially not badly! It took FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR more willpower for me to actually start eating again than it did for me not to. once you get past a certain amount of time without eating you actually stop feeling hunger in my experience.

Maybe you can understand schizophrenia as someone who suffers from it but it in no way makes you an expert on mental illness. i have my own experiences but i'd never dare claim to understand someone else's condition simply because of my own. when i was hospitalised with anorexia, i hadn't eaten ANYTHING in months, i survived on occasionally drinking juice or soy milk. i shared a ward with someone who binged on junk food and purged but wouldn't touch anything healthy, especially not carbs. i couldn't understand how she could eat that junk food at all and she never exercised. then there was another girl who'd eat carbs but not protein and was a compulsive exerciser. my point is EVERYONE suffers from their shit in their own ways. your experience of schizophrenia is probably completely different to my uncle's who suffers from it so you really shouldn't speak for anyone else and especially not of conditions that you yourself don't have any experience of.

this:

That's what I mean when I say the ones who starve themselves are showing strength, it's just that the strength is misdirected because of their mental illness.

is also not true, at least for me anyway. it was WEAKNESS that made me stop eating not strength. if i was strong then i would have found healthy ways to deal with my problems but i wasn't. the friend i wrote about who ate junk food and purged, well she died. she was 20. is that strength? not in my opinion. strength would have been to fight the voices in her head and just eat something and keep it down. i can say that now having been through YEARS of therapy, but not even at my worst with anorexia did i feel strong for not eating because not eating to me was easy, it was eating that was hard.