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[Pope Totalfrog]

Thats true, but in this case, someone is saying 'if you find it beautiful, you find it beautiful, your opinion is your very own blah blah blah', which might still be the one that ~*the media*~ is ramming down your throat, but its still yours, not the one you opened a gossip rag right just then to get.

Fair enough… But yet it can be a little disconcerting to find that you might have unwittingly acquired a taste for something that is objectionable in some form just because it’s floating around in the media. I've picked up words I want to ditch.

The media might be persuasive but if you can think on your own enough to disagree even a little or even totally, crazily, passionately agree with what they are saying, then what the frogster said still holds up.

Generally agree but will say that Photo’s of photoshopped perfection do take a toll. It’s hard to argue aesthetics because a great image is great even if the intentions behind it are manipulative.   

Most images in the media are clever works of fiction. Even the most attractive people don't look anything like the images of them that circulate. You can put a stop to the toll they take on people's self image by exposing the tricks they use to create the level of deceptive perfection that is portrayed as normal.

You're right about a great image being great to look at but people need to realise that it isn't real, never was and never will be.

[Indja]

This only just occurred to me, and I've not been listening/reading to most of this thread so it's a bit random. Sorry. But! My step-mum, who is straight, says that the only woman she would ever be gay for is KD Lang. Her exact words were, "I'm not into women, but if she wanted me to be, good God I'd try." She thinks she's "the most beautiful woman in forever". People are attracted to whatever they happen to fancy, and what strikes people as truly "beautiful", not just sexy or fit or whatever but beautiful like a painting or a song or a sunset, is always going to be subjective and surprising. For some, true stunning beauty is an androgynous, boyish frame, and for others it's going to be a curvaceous, pre-Raphaelite figure, and to others there will never be anything more beautiful than a very finely carved chair-leg. To argue about whether one is wrong or right is absurd - it's like arguing over whether a painting is more worthy of the word than a song.

[Morpheus Laughing]

Thats true, but in this case, someone is saying 'if you find it beautiful, you find it beautiful, your opinion is your very own blah blah blah', which might still be the one that ~*the media*~ is ramming down your throat, but its still yours, not the one you opened a gossip rag right just then to get.

Fair enough… But yet it can be a little disconcerting to find that you might have unwittingly acquired a taste for something that is objectionable in some form just because it’s floating around in the media. I've picked up words I want to ditch.

The media might be persuasive but if you can think on your own enough to disagree even a little or even totally, crazily, passionately agree with what they are saying, then what the frogster said still holds up.

Generally agree but will say that Photo’s of photoshopped perfection do take a toll. It’s hard to argue aesthetics because a great image is great even if the intentions behind it are manipulative.   

Most images in the media are clever works of fiction. Even the most attractive people don't look anything like the images of them that circulate. You can put a stop to the toll they take on people's self image by exposing the tricks they use to create the level of deceptive perfection that is portrayed as normal.

You're right about a great image being great to look at but people need to realise that it isn't real, never was and never will be.

Exposing the process helps no doubt... Unfortunately, these lessons have to learned again and again because kids have to learn how to discern the truth and that takes time. Hopefully someone will find a way to speed that process up. I suspect a lot of emotional harm occurs in young people because they don't yet know how to cut through the trite.

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

Sometimes people's emotions and immediate impressions cloud a further examination (if there is one to be found) of what has been said.

I do think that some people are being way too sensitive about this comment.  No, I'm not saying you don't have the right to be 'sensitive' about matters, I'm not quashing your freedom of expression (because I know someone is going to say that I am) but message board posts can be extremely ambiguous.  (In my opinion) not once did Tiervexx suggest that anorexia was an admirable thing, regarding willpower.  Anorexia is not THE SAME for everybody who suffers from it.  For some it takes no 'willpower' although I would like to replace that word with something more appropriate but can't think of one right now - for some it takes a lot of self-restraint.  It's pretty stupid to assume that Tiervexx's comment is offensive and cannot be true because that is not what YOU have experienced. 

RE: depression etc.  When I suffered from depression, the 'logical' thing WAS to seek help.  Most people know they need help because it is not right to feel the way they do.  That does not mean that the most logical thing to do was the easiest - in fact it was the hardest.  I had to be forced, almost physically, to the point of getting help. 

Thank you.  I know that my communication skills are a little off so I'm so happy that someone understood what I was actually trying to say.

I think the main problem with my statement was the use of the word "willpower."  A lot of people seem to think it has positive connotations so therefore I must have been saying something positive about anorexia.  I generally don't think about positive or negative connotations because I don't think they are too subjective.

I'm very sorry you had problems with depression.  One of my close friends regularly makes posts on facebook suggesting she still wants to die sooner rather than latter and I hate reading them.  And yes, she is already heavily medicated for it (when she has not had her medication it's 40 times worse!).

Never said anorexia was the same for everyone who suffers it. It's definitely different. I've even said that seeing as one of the possible kick-off points for an eating disorder is a diet that gets taken too far, which obviously implies some kind of 'willpower'.
But once you're in there...It's a lot more complicated than that. You don't choose to be anorexic. The only people who choose to be anorexic are those pro-ana nutjobs who are also the ones who run around spouting shit about how they have to 'BE STRONG IN THE FACE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE' or whatever. And that's not even anorexia. That's being an absolute douchebag and going on a very unhealthy diet.

Also this definitely does give the impression of the author seeing something healthy or positive in anorexia.

I wanted to say that I am tired of hearing grossly overweight people talk about how proud they are not to be anorexic. At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.

You can say that you meant whatever you want, this clearly wasn't very well thought out.
Also when you say that people are overreacting...You might think that this was just a throwaway sentence that no one would notice and you'd get away with because you 'don't think about positive or negative connotations', but it wasn't. It was offensive. Sometimes words are like that.

[insignifikunt]

Also this definitely does give the impression of the author seeing something healthy or positive in anorexia.

I wanted to say that I am tired of hearing grossly overweight people talk about how proud they are not to be anorexic. At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.

You can say that you meant whatever you want, this clearly wasn't very well thought out.
Also when you say that people are overreacting...You might think that this was just a throwaway sentence that no one would notice and you'd get away with because you 'don't think about positive or negative connotations', but it wasn't. It was offensive. Sometimes words are like that.

that is what i was going to say.

This only just occurred to me, and I've not been listening/reading to most of this thread so it's a bit random. Sorry. But! My step-mum, who is straight, says that the only woman she would ever be gay for is KD Lang. Her exact words were, "I'm not into women, but if she wanted me to be, good God I'd try." She thinks she's "the most beautiful woman in forever". People are attracted to whatever they happen to fancy, and what strikes people as truly "beautiful", not just sexy or fit or whatever but beautiful like a painting or a song or a sunset, is always going to be subjective and surprising. For some, true stunning beauty is an androgynous, boyish frame, and for others it's going to be a curvaceous, pre-Raphaelite figure, and to others there will never be anything more beautiful than a very finely carved chair-leg. To argue about whether one is wrong or right is absurd - it's like arguing over whether a painting is more worthy of the word than a song.

@Indja i agree that people are attracted to what/who they are attracted to and for a whole range of factors. i used to be attracted to someone because i loved their personality so i automatically found their appearance attractive. then they changed, meaning their personality changed, they started working somewhere that was totally not in their character and it rubbed off of them and now i find that person not only unattractive but ugly.

[CottonCandy]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I don't want to deter people from commenting. When I read that initially, I understood that it was a light-hearted comment, but it felt inappropriate to me as a response to my initial post. I apologize for being so harsh.

Thanks... I really didn't mean it as anything negative, quite the opposite... Sarcasm doesn't translate well online.

I'd like to think media doesn't affect my self-image, but it does. I've noticed that in UK, there's so much more mixed messages (though yes, in my native Finland there is some too) about how women should look and weigh. It might be because in UK the obesity problem is bigger... Over in UK, they look at me funny for cycling 10k to work (don't you get sweaty!), but it's how I keep fit. The magazines and newspapers shout out about how you should be a certain bmi, then how bmi is faulty to measure true health, then how you should accept yourself as you are to prevent mental hang-ups so many have because they're not a size 8. Womens magazines are worse -usually they have a programme to lose weight or get into bikini shape on one page, then the next is a recipe for brownies.

I read this months Cosmopolitan (which I still like because of the fashion aspect) and they had their editorial about a girl who had her arm bitten off by a shark, yet still went on to win surfing competitions like she had before, and without the prosthetic arm she was given. Now, I thought the angle was: "This girl accepts herself despite missing a limb, surely you can accept your stretchmarks, a bit of cellulite or other minor imperfections and enjoy your life and going on the beach at summer!" No. The angle was: "She can't change what is wrong in her body, but you can change your winter-shaped body -turn to page 666 to see our bikini bootcamp feature!" Seriously, I dare you to snek into a newsagents and read the editorial.

I do have days when I love my looks and body unconditionally, then other days trousers that used to fit perfectly are now a bit tight, or I go to London, look at all the tiny skinny trendy women and feel like a whale.

[Musings]

I wanted to say that I am tired of hearing grossly overweight people talk about how proud they are not to be anorexic. At least being anorexic takes willpower... anyone can just stuff themselves like a pig and skip workouts as if that was an accomplishment.

I am glad that people are addressing the anorexia = not fun/not willpower part of this, but the other part is offensive too.  First of all, what grossly overweight people do you know that are constantly talking about how proud they are that they are not anorexic?  People who have clinical issues, who are not just overweight but binge eaters, don't stuff themselves like a pig and think it's accomplishment.  

When I was binging, I ate until I felt nauseous.  I ate beyond full, even sometimes after I threw up.  I was unhappy and food was a punishment.  I used to hate myself and eat at the same time.  There's nothing that's an accomplishment about that, so please kindly fuck off if you believe that all binge eaters/overweight people feel this way.

Two things:
The whole statement was grossly generalized and so stupidly worded, and I'm not going to apologize for taking it offensively.  If you don't think before writing a statement like that, then you deserve all the backlash and more. 

I didn't mention the binging part at first, and wasn't surprised to see that no one commented about it before.  

[N.U.]

Beauty=Big Boobs, Tiny Waist

Dammit! Is THIS what I've been doing wrong?

[Miss Sahara]

I think uglyness is equally as important as beauty. 

[tanqgirl]

just because i think it's stupid that people are bitching about it, i've heard and known several overweight people who were "proud to not be anorexic" one was my college roommate, so dont act like people never say shit like that

also? i think it's somewhat ridiculous that you all just forced each other to apologize to each other...everyone has their own opinion and those opinions might piss someone off, and gee that's to bad but get over it, it doesnt mean you cant be friends anymore, it just means you dont agree on something...stand up for your argument either way if you believe in it, if you dont believe in it, dont write it out in the first place

i for one do not apologize for anything i've ever said on here that has pissed anyone off UNLESS i honestly spelled something wrong or used a wrong word

[Musings]

just because i think it's stupid that people are bitching about it, i've heard and known several overweight people who were "proud to not be anorexic" one was my college roommate, so dont act like people never say shit like that

also? i think it's somewhat ridiculous that you all just forced each other to apologize to each other...everyone has their own opinion and those opinions might piss someone off, and gee that's to bad but get over it, it doesnt mean you cant be friends anymore, it just means you dont agree on something...stand up for your argument either way if you believe in it, if you dont believe in it, dont write it out in the first place

i for one do not apologize for anything i've ever said on here that has pissed anyone off UNLESS i honestly spelled something wrong or used a wrong word

Great.  You think it's stupid to bitch about generalizations because you've met people that fit that generalization.

Also, you think it's stupid that people be offended and express themselves about being offended.  You expressed that bitching about something is stupid.

You also never apologize because you NEVER reconsider your opinions based on other people's opinions or feelings.

You are AWESOME.  High-five!

[Captain Oblivious]

I would just like to remind people that this is the internet.

[Mockery]

I feel apologize. I honestly didn't mean for this to spiral out of control.

[Musings]

It's not out of control, it's an active dialogue.  Nothing wrong with that. 

And yes, it's the internet, where I, for one, judge people on their written posts.

[tanqgirl]

just because i think it's stupid that people are bitching about it, i've heard and known several overweight people who were "proud to not be anorexic" one was my college roommate, so dont act like people never say shit like that

also? i think it's somewhat ridiculous that you all just forced each other to apologize to each other...everyone has their own opinion and those opinions might piss someone off, and gee that's to bad but get over it, it doesnt mean you cant be friends anymore, it just means you dont agree on something...stand up for your argument either way if you believe in it, if you dont believe in it, dont write it out in the first place

i for one do not apologize for anything i've ever said on here that has pissed anyone off UNLESS i honestly spelled something wrong or used a wrong word

Great.  You think it's stupid to bitch about generalizations because you've met people that fit that generalization.

Also, you think it's stupid that people be offended and express themselves about being offended.  You expressed that bitching about something is stupid.

You also never apologize because you NEVER reconsider your opinions based on other people's opinions or feelings.

You are AWESOME.  High-five!

you're right i wont apologize because despite if i like someone or not wont make me change my opinions

and you are also right, i AM awesome