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Author Topic: from the Science Desk  (Read 40222 times)

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85283-071

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #135 on: September 19, 2011, 07:33:28 PM »

Co-signs.

I believe we will adapt. Suffer? Sure... but also adapt.
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CeeGBee

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #136 on: September 19, 2011, 10:17:10 PM »

Further, since those were the only cited articles in this entire conversation, they provide far more evidence than uncited opinions.

Actually, if one looks carefully:
True, there are numerous promising "gene therapies", but they don't actually treat genetic
disorders - rather they treat other sorts of disease, cancer for example.... and for the most
part, while some results are promising, they haven't actually cured anything yet.

As for gen-mod food crops, they have been developed for resistance to specific pests and
diseases, but it turns out the enemies are counter-adapting, and there are indications that
those same modifications may make the crops harmful to us...

In short, once again, these people are tinkering with stuff they don't fully understand, and
until the potential consequences can at least be estimated, it's a bad idea.
...someone might have linked to The Wall Street Journal and the admittedly somewhat biased (but still a step up from Cosmo) Global Research

Jussayin'.... :dontknow:
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lentower

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #137 on: September 19, 2011, 10:20:55 PM »

ag

there are possible scenarios that will wipe all chordates out.
in fact most everything more complicatred than a single cell

the likely ones will kill billions of us.

maybe our race is uneducable and can't develope enough self-control
to do better

perhaps such mega-death is what humans end up being about

you're right,
the survivial of some humans on a much changed planet
is the more probable result

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #138 on: September 19, 2011, 10:22:38 PM »

Further, since those were the only cited articles in this entire conversation, they provide far more evidence than uncited opinions.

Actually, if one looks carefully:
True, there are numerous promising "gene therapies", but they don't actually treat genetic
disorders - rather they treat other sorts of disease, cancer for example.... and for the most
part, while some results are promising, they haven't actually cured anything yet.

As for gen-mod food crops, they have been developed for resistance to specific pests and
diseases, but it turns out the enemies are counter-adapting, and there are indications that
those same modifications may make the crops harmful to us...

In short, once again, these people are tinkering with stuff they don't fully understand, and
until the potential consequences can at least be estimated, it's a bad idea.
...someone might have linked to The Wall Street Journal and the admittedly somewhat biased (but still a step up from Cosmo) Global Research

Jussayin'.... :dontknow:

and it's the fact that Tiervaxx et al, don't read this closely,
(ag, Cee, and others do read closely)
that make trying to have this kind of discussion even harder
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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #139 on: September 19, 2011, 10:35:57 PM »

ag

there are possible scenarios that will wipe all chordates out.
in fact most everything more complicatred than a single cell

the likely ones will kill billions of us.

maybe our race is uneducable and can't develope enough self-control
to do better

perhaps such mega-death is what humans end up being about

you're right,
the survivial of some humans on a much changed planet
is the more probable result

Cee

this was certainly the most glaring of these

i saw a number of others

i hope you're right, and it helps to point it out
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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #140 on: September 19, 2011, 10:41:43 PM »

Bruce Sterling writes well

imho, better than Neil,
though they are both world class

http://w2.eff.org/Misc/Publications/Bruce_Sterling/FSF_columns/fsf.15

it's a little bit of what you have to understand,
before you really understand the dangers of deploying new tech
as carelessly and greedily as it usually is
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Tiervexx

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #141 on: September 20, 2011, 06:01:04 PM »

Tiervexx

having tried to widen the point of view of people who are limited the way you are, hundreds, if not thousands of time in the past, i've gotten some idea when i have some chance of success

you are sadly, more of a fossil than I am

best -len

Oh, get over yourself!

I can atleast admit I don't know for sure that biotech will move forward in the way I want.  You're confidence that it can't possibly work is absurd.  Using examples of past mistakes to prove it will never work even as we become far more advanced is fundementally a fallacy.

You seem fond of historical examples so I invite you to look up quotes that now look like very bad predictions.  Bold statements about how limited technology is, is a common theme amoung them.  People who said computers were never going anywhere were often as well educated as you are but like you had no vision.

Nobody ever said there are no risks.  You arefighting a strawman when you reasure us it's dangerous because I know it is VERY dangerous.  But your belief that it is self evident that those mistakes prove I'm wrong abot what will be possible reflect your fear, not reason.

In any case, the value judgements between the risks and rewards are very subjective.  I accept that I could be wrong and would respect someone's decision to never modify themselves.  Your belief that you could know for sure what will happen or what someone should do with their body (if it became available) shows your own narrow mindedness and arrogance.  ...or maybe it's not that you are arrogant, maybe you are just letting your fear of "unnatural" flesh close your mind.
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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #142 on: September 20, 2011, 08:26:07 PM »

^ sigh

i just don't have the time to help you along.
too much to unravel
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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #143 on: September 20, 2011, 09:16:58 PM »

I appear to have missed quite a big and interesting exchange of opinions...

Any thoughts on Hydroponics?

It has the hallmarks of a middle ground between biotech and organic growing. I don't know enough to say more than that.
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CeeGBee

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #144 on: September 20, 2011, 11:34:25 PM »

Any thoughts on Hydroponics?
Hydroponic veggies have a lot going for them:
-available in any season
-grown in water, so no dirt/sand/grit to wash off
-typically grown in an insect-free environment, so no pesticides are needed...

Unfortunately, they also have the nasty tendency to be devoid of flavour, and for some
reason, they often have a strange physical texture, somewhat akin to foam rubber...
I assume the flavour deficit is caused by an absence of trace "contaminants" might be
absorbed from soil, but not nutrient-water...  I have no explanation for the texture issue.
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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #145 on: September 21, 2011, 01:23:02 AM »

Any thoughts on Hydroponics?

I haven't looked at this in detail,
though I did visit one hydroponic factory awhile back.

It looked to me to require more money, water, and energy than
traditionally grown food,
(the tour guide was evasive about these questions)
and mostly useful for certain small (aka niche) market segments,
where the added cost would be paid for.

With scale costs might come down ...
Whether that ever happens or not ...
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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #146 on: September 21, 2011, 02:02:06 AM »

Call me Pollyanna, but I think urban, vertical farming is going to be an important part of our future.
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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #147 on: September 21, 2011, 09:55:37 AM »

Any thoughts on Hydroponics?

I haven't looked at this in detail,
though I did visit one hydroponic factory awhile back.

It looked to me to require more money, water, and energy than
traditionally grown food,
(the tour guide was evasive about these questions)
and mostly useful for certain small (aka niche) market segments,
where the added cost would be paid for.


With scale costs might come down ...
Whether that ever happens or not ...

I wouldn't call marijuana a niche market.

 :hippy2:

lentower

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #148 on: September 21, 2011, 11:00:26 AM »

Any thoughts on Hydroponics?

I haven't looked at this in detail,
though I did visit one hydroponic factory awhile back.

It looked to me to require more money, water, and energy than
traditionally grown food,
(the tour guide was evasive about these questions)
and mostly useful for certain small (aka niche) market segments,
where the added cost would be paid for.


With scale costs might come down ...
Whether that ever happens or not ...

I wouldn't call marijuana a niche market.

 :hippy2:

; - }

it is one of those niche markets,
where artifically imposed scarcity
makes higher production costs
necessary and profitable
for producers

for some producers,
those costs include jail time



sad that Washington DC
doesn't end the war on drugs
and tax them

what a great way to close the deficit!
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Tiervexx

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #149 on: September 21, 2011, 11:12:44 AM »

Any thoughts on Hydroponics?

I haven't looked at this in detail,
though I did visit one hydroponic factory awhile back.

It looked to me to require more money, water, and energy than
traditionally grown food,
(the tour guide was evasive about these questions)
and mostly useful for certain small (aka niche) market segments,
where the added cost would be paid for.


With scale costs might come down ...
Whether that ever happens or not ...

I wouldn't call marijuana a niche market.

 :hippy2:

; - }

it is one of those niche markets,
where artifically imposed scarcity
makes higher production costs
necessary and profitable
for producers

for some producers,
those costs include jail time



sad that Washington DC
doesn't end the war on drugs
and tax them

what a great way to close the deficit!

Hey, we agree on something!

The true benifit to ending the war on drugs might be much larger than we can anticipate because those poverty stricken areas that are torn by drug wars might suddenly become great places for busineses to go.

As for our argument about biotech, is there any posible innovation that would make you more open to its potential usefulness?
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