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Author Topic: from the Science Desk  (Read 39259 times)

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imaginary friend

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #195 on: April 12, 2012, 06:51:51 PM »

CeeGBee

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #196 on: April 13, 2012, 01:17:56 AM »

did Viking find life on Mars in 1976?   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47031923/ns/technology_and_science-science/#.T4dXtdmLfcs

The chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one, he said......
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/tFfZFvvuXWc" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/tFfZFvvuXWc</a>

(The disco beat is bearable, and the narrator is Sir Richard Fucking Burton, thankyouverymuch...)




Oh wait....  if there's bacteria on Mars, then the Martians probably AREN'T devoid of any
microbial immunity, and they could invade any day, and there'd be NOTHING to stop them....


AAAAAHHHHHHHH!   :o
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Is it bad that what she said made perfect sense to me?

imaginary friend

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #197 on: April 13, 2012, 02:54:52 PM »

^ love that album! the hippie older brother of my childhood best friend had it, and he'd let me borrow it from time to time.

it's sold some ungodly amount of copies over the years; I think it's north of 25 million worldwide.  :o

Tiervexx

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #198 on: April 13, 2012, 08:15:47 PM »

here, let me stretch your brain a lil' bit thee:    http://io9.com/5890789/the-trouble-with-string-theory

Awesome!

Quote
The first problem with this is of course that no one has seen any of these dimensions. They are merely predicted by the math. And by "predicted by the math" we mean "the equations of string theory didn't balance out so we added extra degrees of freedom until they did."

YES!  I thought the same thing.  That type of shenanigans is what they do in theology and the social sciences.
This has always been my problem with the oh-so-useful constant "i"....  So many things work
so well when you can use a number in your calculations that CAN NOT POSSIBLY EXIST....

Division by zero?  That's a big ol' no-no, but the square-root of a negative?  Why not?

not a valid comparison at all.  "i" is understood to not be "real" by mathematicians.  It is used because it can represent things just as an "8" can be used to represent things.  You might gain some appreciation for "i" if you looked into it's geometric applications which is how it gained acceptance among mathematicians in the first place.  "i" is used to represent another dimension apart from the reals.  Fractal geometry is a good example of it's use.

So yes, I can't really give you 4i apples.  That would be absurd.  But I can represent an infinitely complex shape with a formula that uses "i".

Furthermore, mathematics is not at all dependent on any connection to a particular physical world.  If it is free from internal contradiction it is valid mathematics.  "i" has been shown to be logically consistent while dividing by zero leads to contradictions.

Math can apply to anything that is free from contradiction since that is the founding principle in mathematics.  "i" actually does apply to quantum particles.
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CeeGBee

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #199 on: April 13, 2012, 10:34:41 PM »

Math can apply to anything that is free from contradiction since that is the founding principle in mathematics.  "i" actually does apply to quantum particles.
The square of ANY number is a positive number.

Therefore, the square root of a negative number IS a contradiction.

...You might gain some appreciation for "i" if you looked into it's geometric applications which is how it gained acceptance among mathematicians in the first place.  "i" is used to represent another dimension apart from the reals.  Fractal geometry is a good example of it's use.
My point exactly - it's terribly useful in terms of hypothetical reality, but it can not in any
way be applied to real reality.  Speculation about 'alternate dimensions' and such, based
upon calculations of that sort thus impress me not in the least.



Kinda like the classic demonstration that 1=2, wherein the mathematician surreptitiously divides
by zero by using two variables with the same value. [google google google]
Quote from: Ah, here it is...
1=2: A Proof using Beginning Algebra
The Fallacious Proof:

    Step 1: Let a=b.
    Step 2: Then a^2 = ab,
    Step 3: a^2 + a^2 = a^2 + ab,
    Step 4: 2 a^2 = a^2 + ab,
    Step 5: 2 a^2 - 2 ab = a^2 + ab - 2 ab,
    Step 6: and 2 a^2 - 2 ab = a^2 - ab.

    Step 7: This can be written as 2 (a^2 - a b) = 1 (a^2 - a b),
    Step 8: and cancelling the (a^2 - ab) from both sides gives 1=2.

If math is your thing, of course, don't let skeptical old me put you off.   O0
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imaginary friend

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The Angel Raliel

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #201 on: April 17, 2012, 03:19:53 PM »

is this not the non-linear universe i have mentioned before?
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One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

Tiervexx

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #202 on: April 21, 2012, 05:50:30 PM »

Math can apply to anything that is free from contradiction since that is the founding principle in mathematics.  "i" actually does apply to quantum particles.
The square of ANY number is a positive number.

Therefore, the square root of a negative number IS a contradiction.

...You might gain some appreciation for "i" if you looked into it's geometric applications which is how it gained acceptance among mathematicians in the first place.  "i" is used to represent another dimension apart from the reals.  Fractal geometry is a good example of it's use.
My point exactly - it's terribly useful in terms of hypothetical reality, but it can not in any
way be applied to real reality.  Speculation about 'alternate dimensions' and such, based
upon calculations of that sort thus impress me not in the least.



Kinda like the classic demonstration that 1=2, wherein the mathematician surreptitiously divides
by zero by using two variables with the same value. [google google google]
Quote from: Ah, here it is...
1=2: A Proof using Beginning Algebra
The Fallacious Proof:

    Step 1: Let a=b.
    Step 2: Then a^2 = ab,
    Step 3: a^2 + a^2 = a^2 + ab,
    Step 4: 2 a^2 = a^2 + ab,
    Step 5: 2 a^2 - 2 ab = a^2 + ab - 2 ab,
    Step 6: and 2 a^2 - 2 ab = a^2 - ab.

    Step 7: This can be written as 2 (a^2 - a b) = 1 (a^2 - a b),
    Step 8: and cancelling the (a^2 - ab) from both sides gives 1=2.

If math is your thing, of course, don't let skeptical old me put you off.   O0

You have a problem because "i" IS in this reality.  It describes energy states of quantum particles and is used in fractal geometry which is found throughout nature.  Much of real engineering would not exist without it.

As I said, mathematics does not need to be tied to a physical science to be valid but it just so happens that "i" is well established all over applied mathematics and not just pure.  The String Theory I was criticizing was never (and probably will never be) verified by experiment but results with "i" are used in the microchips we are using to have this discussion.

It might help your understanding if "i" to stop using the word "number".  When people think of number they think of something that can be used to describe a quantity.  When mathematicians say that "i" is outside the number line they are effectively saying that it is not a "number" in that sense.  Maybe think of it as a geometric object.  With many of it's applications that might be a better description than "number".

Also, the use of "i" instead of root(-1) was started by Gauss in acknowledgement that of course that made no sense.  A "7" is not real in itself.  It is a totally abstract object.  It only has meaning when you say something like "I ate seven donkeys."  Likewise, "i" is no more or less abstract in itself, it just has different uses but still has it's uses.  I can describe amplitudes of electrons with "i" in a way that can't be done with the reals so from that perspective the reals don't exist!
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imaginary friend

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #204 on: April 30, 2012, 11:25:04 AM »

imaginary friend

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #205 on: June 11, 2012, 10:36:12 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/egEGaBXG3Kg" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/egEGaBXG3Kg</a>


 :o

imaginary friend

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #206 on: June 12, 2012, 07:33:34 PM »

imaginary friend

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #207 on: July 04, 2012, 12:41:50 PM »

Tiervexx

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #208 on: August 26, 2012, 07:26:04 PM »

Higgs boson found:    http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2012/PR17.12E.html


 :D :occasion14: :occasion16: :occasion14: :D

I remember first hearing about that and immediately seeing all the stupid comments asking what good it did them?  Freaking morons...
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imaginary friend

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Re: from the Science Desk
« Reply #209 on: August 28, 2012, 12:48:13 AM »

Curiosity sends a postcard:



 :glasses9:
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