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[Agonistes]

Really.  White knighting is for those who deserve it, not for those who cannot accept the consequences of their actions.

I agree. And in this case I don't think she deserves it.

But this is the box Caddy my love and everyone gets white knighted by someone for reasons I have never understood. Remember people defending Alyss? And he wasn't even a subtle troll.

Yeah, I remember that.  I even remember chatting with him, and being fooled for a quick minute.  And then I was like..ugh, no, and took off.  When I came back, it finally came out.

And now it seems that way here, with people defending trolls again.  And apparently Agonistes is bothered when an unpopular opinion is treated as wrong, because it's not accepted within a counterculture?  Isn't that counterculture this person is talking about just bustling with, umm, those within the LGBT community?  How else would somebody in that community treat it?  With respect?  With coddling?  With sugarcoating?  I'm not quite sure where they are going with this sentence.

*rubs forehead*  I can't even with this.  I abandoned the news forum I moved over to, because I needed a break from the overwhelming sadness and stress of the current news.  I figured the s.box was still lighthearted with nice people, and easy conversation.  It wasn't stressful, and didn't take a whole lot of thinking to follow the conversation.  Aaaaaaaand the first thing I come back to read is just...really uncool.  I can't even with this.  I know I'm having a bad time when I'm having to edit and re-edit my post to keep myself from saying something really, really rude.  I'm trying not to be rude, while still being very honest, and sticking to my opinion.  Which is that what was said, by said person, was obtuse.  End of story.  Beating that dead horse will not make it come back to life.  I'm trying to be very, very Applejack about this.

God, all of this, because I was congratulating somebody on validating my trendiness.  Which I am.  I am damn trendy.  Look at my pair of ponies, goddamnit.  LOOK AT THEM.

uh, of course i'm bothered when an unpopular opinion is treated as wrong.  for more than one reason, too, and not just the way the opinion was being treated; the poster as well.  at least three people had had their say about what mockery had said, and she'd even tried to withdraw it, but we didn't let her, and she was even told it was okay to share what she had to say without rancor.  in other words, i am not the one who beat the dead horse, and i'm not singling out anyone in particular about it, either, i just happened to quote your post cause the tunnel ended there.  in my case, it's just that this is the first time on this particular board this issue has actually come up, since most everyone is always of a similar opinion on the stuff that could fall under the jargon of political correctness (except me, it would seem).  it's come up from someone relatively young, and for all the hell we know it could be something that hasn't had time to form into actual thought yet, but instead is an as yet unformed thought still parroting of the parents or schoolteachers, or whatever.


for that matter, my opinions on eugenics are pretty damn abhorrent if taken to an ideal/extreme, but nobody fussed about that.  mockery basically expressed a religious sentiment.  and, frankly, i have a BIG problem with someone telling someone directly their conviction is bullshit.  say what you like about what you believe, or engage in cohesive (and mutual) debate, but when it comes to what someone else actually believes, they shouldn't be made to feel bad for expressing it.  especially when they did so to explain.  when asked.

also, what people are defending which trolls?  there are trolls in this thread?  are you seriously suggesting mockery is the social equivalent of alyss?  because i don't see that at all.

[Savannah]

uh, of course i'm bothered when an unpopular opinion is treated as wrong.  for more than one reason, too, and not just the way the opinion was being treated; the poster as well.  at least three people had had their say about what mockery had said, and she'd even tried to withdraw it, but we didn't let her, and she was even told it was okay to share what she had to say without rancor.  in other words, i am not the one who beat the dead horse.  in my case, it's just that this is the first time on this particular board this issue has actually come up, since most everyone is always of a similar opinion on the stuff that could fall under the jargon of political correctness (except me, it would seem).  it's come up from someone relatively young, and for all the hell you know it could be something that hasn't had time to form into actual thought yet, but instead is parroting of the parents or schoolteachers, or whatever.


for that matter, my opinions on eugenics is pretty damn abhorrent if taken to an ideal/extreme, but nobody fussed about that.  mockery basically expressed a religious sentiment.  and, frankly, i have a BIG problem with someone telling someone directly their conviction is bullshit.  say what you like about what you believe, or engage  in cohesive (and mutual) debate, but when it comes to what someone else actually believes, they shouldn't be made to feel bad for expressing it.  especially when they did so to explain.  when asked.

also, what people are defending which trolls?  there are trolls in this thread?  are you seriously suggesting mockery is the social equivalent of alyss?  because i don't see that at all.

^Agreed.

And this is a grey matter, as you can also see the section the thread was started in. There's no law about it, there's no completely right or wrong. I think it's unnecessary to degrade people just because they've spoken their minds, if we really have to fight with something it must be the thoughts instead of people.

I completely disagree with Mockery but it doesn't make her a troll. If you ask about the matter to the people from the previous generation, most of them will give the same answer as she did. This is kinda dogmatic. If there are some people who still say "God created man for women", it's not because they're troll or evil or judgemental. It's because they are being educated in this way, they've born into this mentality. And if we keep on degrading these kind of people because of what they think, they'll never have the chance to talk about it.

Bias and dogmas can only be destroyed by looking at the subject from many different point of views. If the person is unable to do that, you may show how it seems like from your side and give them an idea.

[BB Gun-it]

Guys, arguing against someone's opinion is not degrading it.

Since when was it not okay for people to express their disagreement on the shadowbox?

[Pope Totalfrog]

uh, of course i'm bothered when an unpopular opinion is treated as wrong.  for more than one reason, too, and not just the way the opinion was being treated; the poster as well.  at least three people had had their say about what mockery had said, and she'd even tried to withdraw it, but we didn't let her, and she was even told it was okay to share what she had to say without rancor.  in other words, i am not the one who beat the dead horse.  in my case, it's just that this is the first time on this particular board this issue has actually come up, since most everyone is always of a similar opinion on the stuff that could fall under the jargon of political correctness (except me, it would seem).  it's come up from someone relatively young, and for all the hell you know it could be something that hasn't had time to form into actual thought yet, but instead is parroting of the parents or schoolteachers, or whatever.


for that matter, my opinions on eugenics is pretty damn abhorrent if taken to an ideal/extreme, but nobody fussed about that.  mockery basically expressed a religious sentiment.  and, frankly, i have a BIG problem with someone telling someone directly their conviction is bullshit.  say what you like about what you believe, or engage  in cohesive (and mutual) debate, but when it comes to what someone else actually believes, they shouldn't be made to feel bad for expressing it.  especially when they did so to explain.  when asked.

also, what people are defending which trolls?  there are trolls in this thread?  are you seriously suggesting mockery is the social equivalent of alyss?  because i don't see that at all.

^Agreed.

And this is a grey matter, as you can also see the section the thread was started in. There's no law about it, there's no completely right or wrong. I think it's unnecessary to degrade people just because they've spoken their minds, if we really have to fight with something it must be the thoughts instead of people.

I completely disagree with Mockery but it doesn't make her a troll. If you ask about the matter to the people from the previous generation, most of them will give the same answer as she did. This is kinda dogmatic. If there are some people who still say "God created man for women", it's not because they're troll or evil or judgemental. It's because they are being educated in this way, they've born into this mentality. And if we keep on degrading these kind of people because of what they think, they'll never have the chance to talk about it.

Bias and dogmas can only be destroyed by looking at the subject from many different point of views. If the person is unable to do that, you may show how it seems like from your side and give them an idea.

My opinion is based on a number of threads. Not just this one. And like I keep repeating, if I am wrong I hope she is learning that there is a different world view to her own.

also, what people are defending which trolls?  there are trolls in this thread?  are you seriously suggesting mockery is the social equivalent of alyss?  because i don't see that at all.

She's not. Alyss was a completely different kettle of fish, he was possibly the world's biggest pain in the arse but some people here still white knighted him. This is the one of the few forums on the internet where someone will defend you no matter how insane the point you are trying to make. It happened before Alyss and it will continue. It is just the way the box is.


And Caddy darling you only have one pony. Not ponies plural. I think one may have up and run away. Also, you haven't dropped a serious Caddybomb yet. I am impressed.

[Savannah]

Guys, arguing against someone's opinion is not degrading it.

Since when was it not okay for people to express their disagreement on the shadowbox?

Since the time it's been ok to call people trolls just because you disagree with them.

I didn't mean to say something like "we should not disagree, we should not discuss" i meant to say, we should not judge or insult people because we disagree with what they're thinking.

Disagreement is one thing, judging is totally another thing.

[BB Gun-it]

Guys, arguing against someone's opinion is not degrading it.

Since when was it not okay for people to express their disagreement on the shadowbox?

Since the time it's been ok to call people trolls just because you disagree with them.

I didn't mean to say something like "we should not disagree, we should not discuss" i meant to say, we should not judge or insult people because we disagree with what they're thinking.

Disagreement is one thing, judging is totally another thing.

I believe totalfrog expressed her opinion that she was beginning to think Mockery might be a troll.

Froggie isn't basing this opinion on this one comment. As she mentioned in her most recent post, this is based on many posts in many threads. I personally have a hard time believing that a troll would create as much of a persona as Mockery has, but I can understand where totalfrog is coming from. Mockery makes some of the most misogynistic, sexist, anti-feminist, homophobic, fatphobic, slut-shaming, ignorant comments I've ever seen on this board. I am willing to believe it is because she is naive, but she keeps getting offended when people disagree with her and saying that we all just "hate [her]" for disagreeing, like she doesn't want to learn any better.

Does that sound like youtube comments to anyone else?

[The Angel Raliel]

actually it sounds like someone who has had a rather more mainstream/religious/conformist background than the majority of us freakies! and I think it was clearly pointed out quite early that people strongly did not agree with her statements, but that did not mean that we would attack her......and then we attacked....If we are to be open minded and good people, we should behave as such especially when confronted with statements based in ignorance.....educate! do not inflamate! (just made that word up, but i like it)

[caddy]

uh, of course i'm bothered when an unpopular opinion is treated as wrong.  for more than one reason, too, and not just the way the opinion was being treated; the poster as well.  at least three people had had their say about what mockery had said, and she'd even tried to withdraw it, but we didn't let her, and she was even told it was okay to share what she had to say without rancor.  in other words, i am not the one who beat the dead horse.  in my case, it's just that this is the first time on this particular board this issue has actually come up, since most everyone is always of a similar opinion on the stuff that could fall under the jargon of political correctness (except me, it would seem).  it's come up from someone relatively young, and for all the hell you know it could be something that hasn't had time to form into actual thought yet, but instead is parroting of the parents or schoolteachers, or whatever.


for that matter, my opinions on eugenics is pretty damn abhorrent if taken to an ideal/extreme, but nobody fussed about that.  mockery basically expressed a religious sentiment.  and, frankly, i have a BIG problem with someone telling someone directly their conviction is bullshit.  say what you like about what you believe, or engage  in cohesive (and mutual) debate, but when it comes to what someone else actually believes, they shouldn't be made to feel bad for expressing it.  especially when they did so to explain.  when asked.

also, what people are defending which trolls?  there are trolls in this thread?  are you seriously suggesting mockery is the social equivalent of alyss?  because i don't see that at all.

^Agreed.

And this is a grey matter, as you can also see the section the thread was started in. There's no law about it, there's no completely right or wrong. I think it's unnecessary to degrade people just because they've spoken their minds, if we really have to fight with something it must be the thoughts instead of people.

I completely disagree with Mockery but it doesn't make her a troll. If you ask about the matter to the people from the previous generation, most of them will give the same answer as she did. This is kinda dogmatic. If there are some people who still say "God created man for women", it's not because they're troll or evil or judgemental. It's because they are being educated in this way, they've born into this mentality. And if we keep on degrading these kind of people because of what they think, they'll never have the chance to talk about it.

Bias and dogmas can only be destroyed by looking at the subject from many different point of views. If the person is unable to do that, you may show how it seems like from your side and give them an idea.

You're right, she's not a troll.  At least Alyss was kind of fun to hang around while he was here.  I mean, until he was revealed to be a stupid troll and all.  Actually, I think Alyss was the last, most interesting thing that happened to this board, which is probably why I never post here.

Aside from that, Mockery's religious opinion was obtuse.  To say that doesn't degrade her.  I did not say Mockery was obtuse.  I said her opinion, born from her religious beliefs, is very and extremely obtuse.  So no, Agonistes, nobody is telling her she cannot express her religious convictions.  I'm just telling her that they are, in fact, obtuse.  I don't know why that is so goddamn hard to understand.  I swear to god you guys really think she is getting the third degree.  Oh god, you should drop her in the middle of this place circa 2006, and see what some of those people would have done to her.  I'm seriously being as kind as I possibly can with my opinion about what she said.

Wow, I didn't waste any time in the few days I've posted here again, have I?

[The Angel Raliel]

indeed.... but we kind of had this discussion already....why are we doing it again?

[BB Gun-it]

We didn't have a discussion. Some of us spoke up to disagree and we were told that isn't okay, so we're fighting back.

[caddy]

actually it sounds like someone who has had a rather more mainstream/religious/conformist background than the majority of us freakies! and I think it was clearly pointed out quite early that people strongly did not agree with her statements, but that did not mean that we would attack her......and then we attacked....If we are to be open minded and good people, we should behave as such especially when confronted with statements based in ignorance.....educate! do not inflamate! (just made that word up, but i like it)

Aw, dude.  I'm not in the business of educating anymore.  Actually, I would be happy to change my opinion of her being obtuse, if she were here, in the thick of this, arguing for herself.  As it stands, she's getting white knighted, which isn't helping to fix any of her muddled beliefs, either.  Mockery should be here saying all of this.  You say she's young, but I call bullshit.  When I was 22-years-old, I had all of my beliefs in order, and if I didn't I had to fight them out myself.  This is like arguing with the fence she's built up around herself, and it's not cool.

Guys, arguing against someone's opinion is not degrading it.

Since when was it not okay for people to express their disagreement on the shadowbox?

Since the time it's been ok to call people trolls just because you disagree with them.

I didn't mean to say something like "we should not disagree, we should not discuss" i meant to say, we should not judge or insult people because we disagree with what they're thinking.

Disagreement is one thing, judging is totally another thing.

I believe totalfrog expressed her opinion that she was beginning to think Mockery might be a troll.

Froggie isn't basing this opinion on this one comment. As she mentioned in her most recent post, this is based on many posts in many threads. I personally have a hard time believing that a troll would create as much of a persona as Mockery has, but I can understand where totalfrog is coming from. Mockery makes some of the most misogynistic, sexist, anti-feminist, homophobic, fatphobic, slut-shaming, ignorant comments I've ever seen on this board. I am willing to believe it is because she is naive, but she keeps getting offended when people disagree with her and saying that we all just "hate [her]" for disagreeing, like she doesn't want to learn any better.

Does that sound like youtube comments to anyone else?

Are you serious?  She's said all of these things, and people are coddling her?  And then getting angry with those who do not like these comments, and are confronting her head on?  Wow, this is nothing more than a bunch of bullshit.  I understand not outright flaming somebody, because they're young and ignorant, but she's 22-years-old.  She's not 15-years-old.  She's got access to more information out there than any generation before her.  It's there.  Age is not an excuse, and that's really more patronizing and ageist to say that she's just young and stupid, instead of saying that she has very problematic ideas and opinions, and they need to be called out.  

[The Angel Raliel]

no one said you should not disagree... I pointed out that going on a character rampage was not really the best way of going about things and encouraged discussion and explanation

[caddy]

indeed.... but we kind of had this discussion already....why are we doing it again?

We're having it again, because I responded to her post about it, because she changed it to a My Little Pony, that's why.




So yes, Froggie!  I do have two ponies!  One of them is just on somebody else's profile.  Actually, I thought it was kinda cool that she changed to a MLP picture.  

[caddy]

no one said you should not disagree... I pointed out that going on a character rampage was not really the best way of going about things and encouraged discussion and explanation

Oh my god.  Who is going on a character rampage?  Nobody is rampaging her character here.  People are, in fact pointing out things THE POSTER HERSELF has said.  If that is going on a character rampage, then oh boy that just proves there's an issue here.

[The Angel Raliel]

the idea do indeed need to be challenged and a long explanation as to WHY the comment was obtuse, offensive, naive, bigoted etc...I found the comment offensive, but I do not find the person offensive, just misguided....do not want this place to become a forum with only one mindset do we?