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[marie_x]

There I said it.
Her music sucks now and I can't bear to read any more of the constant obnoxious twitter updates.
She doesn't care about her old fans and she hasn't released any new music that's worth listening to.
Okay.

[Savannah]

You need to know it's not the best place to do it.

But now that you needed to vomit this bad, okay. Bye to you too.

[marie_x]

You need to know it's not the best place to do it.

But now that you needed to vomit this bad, okay. Bye to you too.

It was something I wanted to discuss, so I placed it in the general discussion.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

[Savannah]

You need to know it's not the best place to do it.

But now that you needed to vomit this bad, okay. Bye to you too.

It was something I wanted to discuss, so I placed it in the general discussion.

I didn't mean it was placed in a wrong part of forum.

But what you do is a little annoying. Nobody is forcing you to listen to or follow her.
Not that i'm a huge fan. But i like it here. And she doesn't have to take a special care of 'older' or 'never' fans. I think she often takes really good care of all of her fans.

[The Angel Raliel]

umm not much to discuss...you clearly feel that amanda is no longer the person she used to be....she probably is not....none of us stay exactly the same....not sure hate is a particularly useful word though.......if you do not like what she is doing currently then stop being interested...pretty easy

[marie_x]

You need to know it's not the best place to do it.

But now that you needed to vomit this bad, okay. Bye to you too.

It was something I wanted to discuss, so I placed it in the general discussion.

I didn't mean it was placed in a wrong part of forum.

But what you do is a little annoying. Nobody is forcing you to listen to or follow her.
Not that i'm a huge fan. But i like it here. And she doesn't have to take a special care of 'older' or 'never' fans. I think she often takes really good care of all of her fans.

Well, I'm a huge fan and I hate it here now.
I didn't say anyone was forcing me to listen to her. I still enjoy the music from the past and the community and friends I made on here.
AND GOD FORBID I EXPRESS AN OPINION DIFFERING FROM YOURS.
Who are you to say what I can and cannot post?
I was trying to have a discussion about Amanda in a forum about Amanda.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.

[marie_x]

umm not much to discuss...you clearly feel that amanda is no longer the person she used to be....she probably is not....none of us stay exactly the same....not sure hate is a particularly useful word though.......if you do not like what she is doing currently then stop being interested...pretty easy

I wanted to see what everybody else had to say about this, and I would like to be interested but I feel as though she sold out to some annoying image and I feel cheated because I was rewarded for all of my devotion with nothing.

[The Angel Raliel]

do not think anyone was saying you could not post, just starting an I hate Amanda thread on her official forum is a tad rude....
we have all had the rare luxury of being fans of a musician that puts an unprecedented amount of attention into her fan base...she has every right to not put quite so much in and she still puts in far more than 99.9% of well known musicians

[Savannah]

You need to know it's not the best place to do it.

But now that you needed to vomit this bad, okay. Bye to you too.

It was something I wanted to discuss, so I placed it in the general discussion.

I didn't mean it was placed in a wrong part of forum.

But what you do is a little annoying. Nobody is forcing you to listen to or follow her.
Not that i'm a huge fan. But i like it here. And she doesn't have to take a special care of 'older' or 'never' fans. I think she often takes really good care of all of her fans.

Well, I'm a huge fan and I hate it here now.
I didn't say anyone was forcing me to listen to her. I still enjoy the music from the past and the community and friends I made on here.
AND GOD FORBID I EXPRESS AN OPINION DIFFERING FROM YOURS.
Who are you to say what I can and cannot post?
I was trying to have a discussion about Amanda in a forum about Amanda.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.

I don't remember saying 'you cannot post something'. I just said 'it's not the best place to do it'. And if you wanted to have a discussion you should have been ready for disagreements. I simply disagree but now that you say who am i to do so, well have a good time expressing your hatred.

[marie_x]

You need to know it's not the best place to do it.

But now that you needed to vomit this bad, okay. Bye to you too.

It was something I wanted to discuss, so I placed it in the general discussion.

I didn't mean it was placed in a wrong part of forum.

But what you do is a little annoying. Nobody is forcing you to listen to or follow her.
Not that i'm a huge fan. But i like it here. And she doesn't have to take a special care of 'older' or 'never' fans. I think she often takes really good care of all of her fans.

Well, I'm a huge fan and I hate it here now.
I didn't say anyone was forcing me to listen to her. I still enjoy the music from the past and the community and friends I made on here.
AND GOD FORBID I EXPRESS AN OPINION DIFFERING FROM YOURS.
Who are you to say what I can and cannot post?
I was trying to have a discussion about Amanda in a forum about Amanda.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.

I don't remember saying 'you cannot post something'. I just said 'it's not the best place to do it'. And if you wanted to have a discusion you should have been ready for disagreements. I simply disagree but now that you say who am i to do so, well have a good time expressing your hatred.

You didn't argue against my opinion, you told me to leave because you didn't like it.
Why is this not the perfect place to have any discussion about my opinions regarding Amanda Palmer- whether they're good or bad?
I think you took the word "hate" a little too seriously.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

i think that a lot of the time with these discussions, it's okay for team-artist to cite time as something they gave a lot of, but not team-disgruntled-fan, and i don't think that's entirely fair. people who are upset devoted their time and energy too, and if someone is upset, it's not because they're being a selfish greedy bitch, it's because they invested a lot and care(d) about something. that doesn't mean that amanda can't change but i think that it's a legitimate opinion worthy of being discussed rather than asked to leave because of.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

You need to know it's not the best place to do it.

But now that you needed to vomit this bad, okay. Bye to you too.

It was something I wanted to discuss, so I placed it in the general discussion.

I didn't mean it was placed in a wrong part of forum.

But what you do is a little annoying. Nobody is forcing you to listen to or follow her.
Not that i'm a huge fan. But i like it here. And she doesn't have to take a special care of 'older' or 'never' fans. I think she often takes really good care of all of her fans.

Well, I'm a huge fan and I hate it here now.
I didn't say anyone was forcing me to listen to her. I still enjoy the music from the past and the community and friends I made on here.
AND GOD FORBID I EXPRESS AN OPINION DIFFERING FROM YOURS.
Who are you to say what I can and cannot post?
I was trying to have a discussion about Amanda in a forum about Amanda.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.

I don't remember saying 'you cannot post something'. I just said 'it's not the best place to do it'. And if you wanted to have a discussion you should have been ready for disagreements. I simply disagree but now that you say who am i to do so, well have a good time expressing your hatred.

er, is there not a certain implication with these words?

[marie_x]

do not think anyone was saying you could not post, just starting an I hate Amanda thread on her official forum is a tad rude....
we have all had the rare luxury of being fans of a musician that puts an unprecedented amount of attention into her fan base...she has every right to not put quite so much in and she still puts in far more than 99.9% of well known musicians

i'm obviously a fan, like, i've spent plenty of time here.
my point wasn't really that i "hated" amanda, it was that i am now a disgruntled fan.
i put my time and energy into loving and caring about her and i feel like i was promised things that were never delivered, both literally and figuratively. (a literal example: that she would release unreleased songs after she got dropped from her record label. it didn't happen.)

[lentower]

Could we ALL calm down a little?!?

Nothing wrong with people venting here,
even if it's against Amanda +/or Brian.
As long as it doesn't get too personal, etc.
see the Box Rules in News

And [+1] for naming the thread,
so people know what's it about.

i would have title it:
i hate Amanda's recent work/art/bogs/tweets
but i focus on a person's behavior, not the person.
ymmv

The pro-Amanda comments in this thread have
all been good too.

[The Angel Raliel]

Oh i agree jesse.......I think Hate is a very strong word for someone to use in this context though......I reserve it only for bigotry and wasps...oh and marmite......

Being a disguntled fan is one thing but to hate someone for not being exactly the same as they were a few years ago? bit odd...I would have to ask what spurred this sudden burst of dislike? I do not think Amanda has done anything specifically today other than sprain her foot while jogging in the rain.....

[lentower]

Camille et al

What do you think of her song 'Massachusetts Avenue'?
Amanda's been doing it live since last summer.
you should find a number of versions on YouTube.
might listen to a few versions,
it's evolved,

I've also heard some of her newest songs,
at the 3 night NJ/NY/MA June tour,
with the new A_F_P_ band
(or do they have a name now, that
doesn't change hourly? ; - )

imho, they are among her best work.
(she asked that they NOT be recorded or shared,
as they were still in process)

bottom line: check out her next album,
and anything new that comes on the way there

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

i think things would have been a bit more clear if thread titles had alternate font colors
like green  

[Savannah]

You need to know it's not the best place to do it.

But now that you needed to vomit this bad, okay. Bye to you too.

It was something I wanted to discuss, so I placed it in the general discussion.

I didn't mean it was placed in a wrong part of forum.

But what you do is a little annoying. Nobody is forcing you to listen to or follow her.
Not that i'm a huge fan. But i like it here. And she doesn't have to take a special care of 'older' or 'never' fans. I think she often takes really good care of all of her fans.

Well, I'm a huge fan and I hate it here now.
I didn't say anyone was forcing me to listen to her. I still enjoy the music from the past and the community and friends I made on here.
AND GOD FORBID I EXPRESS AN OPINION DIFFERING FROM YOURS.
Who are you to say what I can and cannot post?
I was trying to have a discussion about Amanda in a forum about Amanda.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.

I don't remember saying 'you cannot post something'. I just said 'it's not the best place to do it'. And if you wanted to have a discusion you should have been ready for disagreements. I simply disagree but now that you say who am i to do so, well have a good time expressing your hatred.

You didn't argue against my opinion, you told me to leave because you didn't like it.
Why is this not the perfect place to have any discussion about my opinions regarding Amanda Palmer- whether they're good or bad?
I think you took the word "hate" a little too seriously.

Tbh, your first post seemed like a farewell and that's was why i said 'Bye to you too'. I didn't mean to tell you leave.
Yes i took the word "hate" a little seriously, but wasn't it serious?
Why i said 'nobody is forcing you to listen to or follow her' was because you said 'her music sucks now'. It's your idea, and just because you said 'it sucks' nobody has to agree with you.

[marie_x]

Oh i agree jesse.......I think Hate is a very strong word for someone to use in this context though......I reserve it only for bigotry and wasps...oh and marmite......

Being a disguntled fan is one thing but to hate someone for not being exactly the same as they were a few years ago? bit odd...I would have to ask what spurred this sudden burst of dislike? I do not think Amanda has done anything specifically today other than sprain her foot while jogging in the rain.....

It wasn't something that was sudden; it's been stewing for a long time and today I was having a discussion about it and decided to take it here.
It was just the general shift from serious music to songs about pubic hair and that godawful ukelele, among a lot of other things.

[lentower]

i think things would have been a bit more clear if thread titles had alternate font colors
like green  

brown?

[marie_x]

Could we ALL calm down a little?!?

Nothing wrong with people venting here,
even if it's against Amanda +/or Brian.
As long as it doesn't get too personal, etc.
see the Box Rules in News

And [+1] for naming the thread,
so people know what's it about.

i would have title it:
i hate Amanda's recent work/art/bogs/tweets
but i focus on a person's behavior, not the person.
ymmv

The pro-Amanda comments in this thread have
all been good too.

Thank you. I wasn't posting the title to be incredibly negative, I was posting it to make the point of the thread clear.

[lentower]

in a's defense:

she's has had a lot to figure out,
and that doesn't really stop,
since the label released her.

WKAP ended up being a much longer and involved process
than she though at the beginning,
and as it grew.

reading between the lines,
i think she needed to recharge,
including the creative juices

she has also been a little distracted
(well, it at least, takes time -- a lot of time)
meeting a man that blew her away
enough to marry him
(did anyone expect that four years ago?)

anything else anyone?

[The Angel Raliel]

oh ok.....basically you strongly dislike the way her music has gone...personally i love the Uke stuff, particularly the Radiohead covers, but that is indeed yours and my choice to make.........I think there are plenty of people who much prefer her piano based stuff.....As for the twitter feed......unfollow amanda or stop watching the afp central list if it bothers you that much, real news will inevitably end up here or on the website......why do you feel personally betrayed though? yes there have been massive flaws with some of the merching and indeed competitions etc that people put loads of effort into...but I think these were genuine problems rather than a lack of caring.......

[lentower]

Could we ALL calm down a little?!?

Nothing wrong with people venting here,
even if it's against Amanda +/or Brian.
As long as it doesn't get too personal, etc.
see the Box Rules in News

And [+1] for naming the thread,
so people know what's it about.

i would have title it:
i hate Amanda's recent work/art/bogs/tweets
but i focus on a person's behavior, not the person.
ymmv

The pro-Amanda comments in this thread have
all been good too.

Thank you. I wasn't posting the title to be incredibly negative, I was posting it to make the point of the thread clear.

Most welcome.

I concur that your choice of thread title,
made it all clear.

[lentower]

oh ok.....basically you strongly dislike the way her music has gone...personally i love the Uke stuff, particularly the Radiohead covers, but that is indeed yours and my choice to make.........I think there are plenty of people who much prefer her piano based stuff.....As for the twitter feed......unfollow amanda or stop watching the afp central list if it bothers you that much, real news will inevitably end up here or on the website......why do you feel personally betrayed though? yes there have been massive flaws with some of the merching and indeed competitions etc that people put loads of effort into...but I think these were genuine problems rather than a lack of caring.......

if you are ONLY going to follow one source of a's real news,
(imho)
it's the mailing list

off to have a nap

great thread so far

maybe even better later

[imaginary friend]

There I said it.
Her music sucks now...and she hasn't released any new music that's worth listening to.
Okay.

I agree with these opinions...I don't hate her, though. she's doing what she wants to do, and I'm making my own music and listening to the music of other people.

not going to dismiss her completely; 8in8 had some really good songs. hopefully, some of that energy carries into her next album.

cool to see you back here, even under these circumstances.

#@!

[Pope Totalfrog]

Personally I find people that 'hate' musicians/artists for the reasons you outlined to be a little bit creepy. To me hating someone is very personal. Meaning that they have personally set out to upset/hurt/harm you. I don't think that has happened in this instance.

It comes back to the fact that Amanda doesn't owe you anything. There has been a massive shift in her musical style lately, I can see why people wouldn't like it. Plenty of people here don't. They don't use the word hate personally though.

If you had paid for things that weren't delivered to you, like the unreleased tapes and you didn't receive them then I could understand a certain level of anger. But you didn't.

Maybe it is just that I don't understand people expressing actual anger at a change in an artist they like. Maybe you over invested in a one sided relationship. Maybe you have changed and all of this just isn't for you any more.

Hate is a very strong word.

But it does get a lot of people to read threads on a fan board, doesn't it...

[The Angel Raliel]

Personally I find people that 'hate' musicians/artists for the reasons you outlined to be a little bit creepy. To me hating someone is very personal. Meaning that they have personally set out to upset/hurt/harm you. I don't think that has happened in this instance.

It comes back to the fact that Amanda doesn't owe you anything. There has been a massive shift in her musical style lately, I can see why people wouldn't like it. Plenty of people here don't. They don't use the word hate personally though.

If you had paid for things that weren't delivered to you, like the unreleased tapes and you didn't receive them then I could understand a certain level of anger. But you didn't.

Maybe it is just that I don't understand people expressing actual anger at a change in an artist they like. Maybe you over invested in a one sided relationship. Maybe you have changed and all of this just isn't for you any more.

Hate is a very strong word.

But it does get a lot of people to read threads on a fan board, doesn't it...

my thoughts exactly......but I DO hate wasps and marmite and thus marmite's antipodean twin,Vegemite

[JohnnyDBBUK]

Hate is baggage Camille.

You maybe should have posted you dislike the current direction AFP has taken
or that you think PunkCabaret and the Dolls were much better during the middle of the last decade.
But to hate someone for not doing similar things that they did in the past is just silly.

especially someone who gives so much time and affection to her fanbase.

Nothing stays the same, its a  fact of life.
10 years from now Amanda will have retired and will be sipping Green Tea on the lawn with Sir Neil of Gaidom, wondering where it all went.
and you will be older and wiser.

until then, put on the old stuff you like and Sing

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

This is the most ridiculous thread I've seen in a while. Pretty sure you knew what kind of reaction you'd get and seeing as you absolutely cannot have made this thinking 'THIS SHOULD GO DOWN OKAY LALALALA', I also feel like you're probably trying to get that attention.
There are sooo many other ways you could have said this that wouldn't have fucked everyone off. Other people have made threads to this effect without this level of negativity happening in the responses. I think my main problem is the attention seeking thread, but this has been said on this forum many, many times: try not to let your sense of entitlement turn you into a total douche.

[JohnnyDBBUK]

aw crap I am a hypocrit...

I once posted on the box that I hated Regina Spektor so Marie (from KatzKab) and Deborah spronk wrote a song about it.
wish I had it still

edit: I don't hate her anymore I just dislike 80% of her songs. She is welcome round for tea and scones anytime.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

It comes back to the fact that Amanda doesn't owe you anything.

(this is not directed at you totalfrog)

the thing that sucks the most for me:

it does come back to that. and that is something that amanda never fails to make clear. she is amanda FUCKING palmer, she is NO ONE'S BITCH, she doesn't owe her fans ANYTHING, FUCK A LABEL, FUCK everyone else's idea of legitimate song writing, FUCK everyone who thinks that everything she does is not art, FUCK everyone who was offended by evelyn evelyn, FUCK CDs- wait, people want to pay for CDs so cancel that fuck, FUCK that recording of provanity, FUCK responsibility (she has spent enough time doing things she didn't like), FUCK everyone who wants something from her, FUCK people's expectations, FUCK everyone who expected what she led them to expect, FUCK EVERYTHING. amanda answers to NO ONE. your money is the only tangible thing you spent on her so that's all you get credit for. if you don't accept this then you are obsessive, self-entitled, and a stalker. if you have a problem with this then that's too bad because she has hundreds of thousands of twitter followers armed with hundred dollar hand-painted ukuleles waiting at a moment's notice to form a flash mob- ninja gig, whatever, waiting to purchase her next vinyl and the truth is that they take precedent because THEY ARE THE MEDIA and seriously, you don't matter, but you should be GRATEFUL to not matter because amanda works harder than ANY OTHER ARTIST OUT THERE to connect with her fans. there is no way to prove this but it's true because she likes using twitter and manages to run her business with a small group of people who are involved in the fan community and, luckily for her, are really cool people. it doesn't matter that she has less fans, amanda still appears more connected than other artists, so therefore she makes more of an effort.

.
.
.
.

it took me a long time to write all of that even though it's not much because i still cannot figure out how to say exactly what it is that i want to say but i think that conveys some of it. i think i can stand by all of what i said though (and yes it's ignorant to say things you can't defend). i don't know. but i don't disagree with this thread and i think people are getting way too hung up on the facetious use of the word 'hate' when i think there are more valid things that can be discussed, rather than rehashing over and over how strong of a word hate is. if creating a thread for attention is so fucked up then don't give it attention. right?

[Cirque]

^I agree with Jesse completely, Amanda owes us nothing.

'Massachusetts Avenue'?

That song is a fucking gem, Amanda still has it.

[lentower]

hmm, many of the posters in this thread,
hate the word hate as it's used in the thread title

seems a lot like the way amanda uses the word "fuck"
as an intensifier, to get a strong feeling across

anyone else has something substantive to post
about the pros and cons of amanda's recent work?


btw, the 8in8 proceeds were done as a fundraiser

and yes,
"Massachusetts Avenue"
really rocks!!!

[Pope Totalfrog]

your money is the only tangible thing you spent on her so that's all you get credit for.

Out of curiosity, what else would people like credit for?

I don't think AFP is really that different to any other musician. Although, as far as other musicians go though AFP fans get a pretty good deal, meet and greets are free (other artists charge), ninja gigs are free (other artists don't bother) and she is friendly (I have met plenty of artists who are complete bastards).

People perceive her differently because she can share a lot with the public about her private life and the goings on behind the scenes but at the end of the day she is selling a product, not friendship.

 

[Agonistes]

Wow.  It is incredibly obnoxious of you to make a thread like this on her own forum, no less.  Creating a thread called 'I hate Amanda' is pathetic.  I don't care if you were trying to 'make it clear' - it would be just as clear if the thread title was 'Why I don't like Amanda's music anymore' or anything suchlike - seems to me more like you are trying to attract attention in case people didn't notice you were back otherwise.  To hate someone, don't you have to know them?  Fair enough, dislike them and their creations but to say you 'hate' them is really primary school of you, you're not unique and edgy by making this thread.  I'm not going to tread around you so you won't be all 'I'm allowed an opinion!11!!' because there are ways to express your opinion in an adult way, and you're acting like a spoiled brat spitting her dummy out.

qft.  there is a lot fo amanda's current activity that doesn't interest me as a fan, but....

this is her board.
rudeness is rude.
attention is available from a variety of positive measures.
discussion is better than blanket statements.

[JohnnyDBBUK]

I hate that old crabbit feker Hillary, inkhead Agonistes and that Froggy Bitch.

not really  

[Agonistes]

'inkhead'   




lmao.  that's a new one.

[JohnnyDBBUK]

Just make sure that the jar of Hellmans is just that  

also Camille remember the good times you had with old miss Stripey tights.   remember? She took you to Paris showed you Monmartre and you ate crepes under a tree while playing Uke.

[JohnnyDBBUK]

Brigade Barbeque this Saturday - my place Carlisle, if you want to come pm me

[Pope Totalfrog]

I hate that old crabbit feker Hillary, inkhead Agonistes and that Froggy Bitch.

At least I am in good company

[lentower]

I hate that old crabbit feker Hillary, inkhead Agonistes and that Froggy Bitch.

At least I am in good company

i'm sure i would enjoy any party the three of you were at

[JohnnyDBBUK]

I don't have the means to replace the dressing with anything else.  And if you're going to extend invites, I'm calling the couch!  Or the mattress thing if you still have it.

don't worry we will do you guys up a bed at the end of the night
doubt anyone would come

goodnight

[Agonistes]

I hate that old crabbit feker Hillary, inkhead Agonistes and that Froggy Bitch.

At least I am in good company

i'm sure i would enjoy any party the three of you were at

i'd party with you len.  could teach you some alabama party games.   

[lentower]

I hate that old crabbit feker Hillary, inkhead Agonistes and that Froggy Bitch.

At least I am in good company

i'm sure i would enjoy any party the three of you were at

i'd party with you len.  could teach you some alabama party games.  

; - }

you realize i live in the state that invented
authentic tea partying?

[Agonistes]

I hate that old crabbit feker Hillary, inkhead Agonistes and that Froggy Bitch.

At least I am in good company

i'm sure i would enjoy any party the three of you were at

i'd party with you len.  could teach you some alabama party games.  

; - }

you realize i live in the state that invented
authentic tea partying?

i do.  i'm not allowed to tell you what our state invented, though.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

I don't think AFP is really that different to any other musician.

i agree with this. i'm glad you said that because i think that i really agree with it and hadn't really realized and therefore i hadn't really said that. but it's kind of the source of my frustration. amanda is not that different from other musicians, yet everyone acts like she is; she's "more connected" with her fans than other artists, or at least that's what seems to be the belief, but i've come to realize it's not true. so i don't understand why it's such a common example of how great she is.

if i'm getting frustrated at shit amanda does that i wouldn't be "allowed" to get frustrated at an other artist for, it's because amanda comes off as being "different from" and "better than" other artists in these ways. so i don't really think it's so unfair.

[The Angel Raliel]

I don't think AFP is really that different to any other musician.

i agree with this. i'm glad you said that because i think that i really agree with it and hadn't really realized and therefore i hadn't really said that. but it's kind of the source of my frustration. amanda is not that different from other musicians, yet everyone acts like she is; she's "more connected" with her fans than other artists, or at least that's what seems to be the belief, but i've come to realize it's not true. so i don't understand why it's such a common example of how great she is.

if i'm getting frustrated at shit amanda does that i wouldn't be "allowed" to get frustrated at an other artist for, it's because amanda comes off as being "different from" and "better than" other artists in these ways. so i don't really think it's so unfair.

I do not agree with you simply because the person you describe simply is not the person I have encountered.....it always amazes me how many fans across the world Amanda remembers by name....the secret gigs are essentially free meet and greets with no security no plan and no charge.....do not see many other people doing that.....and do not know many artists that allow fans to basically get involved  at every level of her life....yes she is human and certainly no saint.....but I think people kind of expect too much simply because she gives out quite alot already.....simple really...it is alot of time and effort to go on tour and perform and write....anything else we get is very much bonus and we should not assume or expect...and to be fair if her fans were not important and it was all about money, she could go and live a quiet life with her husband and just occasionally do studio recordings......

[Savannah]

I don't think AFP is really that different to any other musician.

i agree with this. i'm glad you said that because i think that i really agree with it and hadn't really realized and therefore i hadn't really said that. but it's kind of the source of my frustration. amanda is not that different from other musicians, yet everyone acts like she is; she's "more connected" with her fans than other artists, or at least that's what seems to be the belief, but i've come to realize it's not true. so i don't understand why it's such a common example of how great she is.

if i'm getting frustrated at shit amanda does that i wouldn't be "allowed" to get frustrated at an other artist for, it's because amanda comes off as being "different from" and "better than" other artists in these ways. so i don't really think it's so unfair.

I do not agree with you simply because the person you describe simply is not the person I have encountered.....it always amazes me how many fans across the world Amanda remembers by name....the secret gigs are essentially free meet and greets with no security no plan and no charge.....do not see many other people doing that.....and do not know many artists that allow fans to basically get involved  at every level of her life....yes she is human and certainly no saint.....but I think people kind of expect too much simply because she gives out quite alot already.....simple really...it is alot of time and effort to go on tour and perform and write....anything else we get is very much bonus and we should not assume or expect...and to be fair if her fans were not important and it was all about money, she could go and live a quiet life with her husband and just occasionally do studio recordings......

A few weeks ago i heard some gossips and visited Emilie Autumn's forum. I saw people mostly love AFP there. And about this gaining money thing someone suggested EA to get an equip who will send the ordered cds and books. But another person said something like "she doesn't earn enough money to hire such an equip and she's not AFP the queen of begging for plane tickets from her fans".

I got pissed off, because she's talking about EA the diva who wants to get paid for giving a hug and spending 5 mins with her fan, the diva who does not hire somebody and instead does not send the goods in time and so whenever a fan of her complains about it on the forum she gets them banned.
I like the way AFP asks for it, and how people are voluntarily giving money or working for her. I don't think she earns a shitload. But i don't think she gives a damn about it. If she was so obsessed with earning a pile, she wouldn't do the ninja gigs.
I have some musician friends, and i told about AFP's system to some of them.They got really amazed.

The connection is not only tweeting constantly, it's more about her being open-hearted. I think she is generous to her fans, at least she does not prefer to demand a shitload of money just to give you a hug, and this is a big plus of her, in addition to her music.

And as for her recent works, i'm not that into them right now. I don't know if i'll love them as much as Dolls era or WKAP. But i don't think they suck.
10 years ago i was listening to soft rock, 7 years ago i was listening to metal, 5 years ago i was listening to punk, and now i'm listening to ethnics and alternative pop-rock. I don't know what i'll be listening to next year. As a listener i see my taste in music changes according to my age and mood, and i guess musicians change too. And i think they have to change too, there are some musicians who have 10 albums with same kind of songs and i find them boring.

[Pope Totalfrog]

I don't think AFP is really that different to any other musician.

i agree with this. i'm glad you said that because i think that i really agree with it and hadn't really realized and therefore i hadn't really said that. but it's kind of the source of my frustration. amanda is not that different from other musicians, yet everyone acts like she is; she's "more connected" with her fans than other artists, or at least that's what seems to be the belief, but i've come to realize it's not true. so i don't understand why it's such a common example of how great she is.

if i'm getting frustrated at shit amanda does that i wouldn't be "allowed" to get frustrated at an other artist for, it's because amanda comes off as being "different from" and "better than" other artists in these ways. so i don't really think it's so unfair.

I do not agree with you simply because the person you describe simply is not the person I have encountered.....it always amazes me how many fans across the world Amanda remembers by name....the secret gigs are essentially free meet and greets with no security no plan and no charge.....do not see many other people doing that.....and do not know many artists that allow fans to basically get involved  at every level of her life....yes she is human and certainly no saint.....but I think people kind of expect too much simply because she gives out quite alot already.....simple really...it is alot of time and effort to go on tour and perform and write....anything else we get is very much bonus and we should not assume or expect...and to be fair if her fans were not important and it was all about money, she could go and live a quiet life with her husband and just occasionally do studio recordings......

A few weeks ago i heard some gossips and visited Emilie Autumn's forum. I saw people mostly love AFP there. And about this gaining money thing someone suggested EA to get an equip who will send the ordered cds and books. But another person said something like "she doesn't earn enough money to hire such an equip and she's not AFP the queen of begging for plane tickets from her fans".

I got pissed off, because she's talking about EA the diva who wants to get paid for giving a hug and spending 5 mins with her fan, the diva who does not hire somebody and instead does not send the goods in time and so whenever a fan of her complains about it on the forum she gets them banned.
I like the way AFP asks for it, and how people are voluntarily giving money or working for her. I don't think she earns a shitload. But i don't think she gives a damn about it, if she did she wouldn't do the ninja gigs.
I have some musician friends, and i told about AFP's system to some of them.They got really amazed.

The connection is not only tweeting constantly, it's more about her being open-hearted. I think she is generous to her fans, at least she does not prefer to demand a shitload of money just to give you a hug, and this is a big plus of her, in addition to her music.

There aren't many artists that treat their fans as well as Amanda does. I think some people (not talking about you Robin) read too much into it and take it as being very personal, these are the people who get mad when it isn't reciprocated.

[Morpheus Laughing]

My usual type of response:

Obviously, it’s not great that bands/performers shift from what initially attracted you to them but it’s bound to happen. I frequently have to explain to people that I only like the first album of a band and it’s kind of embarrassing because I know people will think that I’m being closed minded or getting stuck in the past.

It can’t be helped. When you find a band/performer you like you’ll focus on what is great about the pieces of music you find attractive & this becomes a reference point for your standard of appreciation. Finding music that is exceptional for its unique take on things (that is also capable of pleasing you) is like winning at a game that is mostly based on chance; those “quirks of style” are not easy to pin down like pop styles are and can readily shift into something that you don’t much care for. I can't really be mad at bands for gently nudging their kaleidoscope of sound around when that is what created the greatness of their early work in the first place.  

[lentower]

I don't think AFP is really that different to any other musician.

i agree with this. i'm glad you said that because i think that i really agree with it and hadn't really realized and therefore i hadn't really said that. but it's kind of the source of my frustration. amanda is not that different from other musicians, yet everyone acts like she is; she's "more connected" with her fans than other artists, or at least that's what seems to be the belief, but i've come to realize it's not true. so i don't understand why it's such a common example of how great she is.

if i'm getting frustrated at shit amanda does that i wouldn't be "allowed" to get frustrated at an other artist for, it's because amanda comes off as being "different from" and "better than" other artists in these ways. so i don't really think it's so unfair.

I do not agree with you simply because the person you describe simply is not the person I have encountered.....it always amazes me how many fans across the world Amanda remembers by name....the secret gigs are essentially free meet and greets with no security no plan and no charge.....do not see many other people doing that.....and do not know many artists that allow fans to basically get involved  at every level of her life....yes she is human and certainly no saint.....but I think people kind of expect too much simply because she gives out quite alot already.....simple really...it is alot of time and effort to go on tour and perform and write....anything else we get is very much bonus and we should not assume or expect...and to be fair if her fans were not important and it was all about money, she could go and live a quiet life with her husband and just occasionally do studio recordings......

what Robin said

true of Neil too

i've probably said this more than anything else on both boxes,
but my favorite part of Amanda's and Brian's shows
are the meet-n-greets, and the time they spend with the fans
one-on-one

they care about people, including their fans

you can search down those posts, i've mentioned
if you want details

[my beautiful idiot]

As for being a disgruntled fan - I get that. You change as a person, your interests and tastes change as well, you start feeling as though the artist you once admired doesn't live up to the pedastool you placed them on so many years ago.

However, I would agree that using a word such as hate usually conjures up the wrong connotations.

I've never met Amanda, but I was lucky enough to see her on her last performance of Cabaret and that alone was enough. I don't expect anything from her aside from being the creative person that she is. I respect that she has a personal life, and I don't feel like she owes me anything. Maybe she's not Lady Gaga and doesn't have a horde of people called "Little Monsters" but she's been good to her fans.

[Cherry Chesterfield]

It comes back to the fact that Amanda doesn't owe you anything.

(this is not directed at you totalfrog)

the thing that sucks the most for me:

it does come back to that. and that is something that amanda never fails to make clear. she is amanda FUCKING palmer, she is NO ONE'S BITCH, she doesn't owe her fans ANYTHING, FUCK A LABEL, FUCK everyone else's idea of legitimate song writing, FUCK everyone who thinks that everything she does is not art, FUCK everyone who was offended by evelyn evelyn, FUCK CDs- wait, people want to pay for CDs so cancel that fuck, FUCK that recording of provanity, FUCK responsibility (she has spent enough time doing things she didn't like), FUCK everyone who wants something from her, FUCK people's expectations, FUCK everyone who expected what she led them to expect, FUCK EVERYTHING. amanda answers to NO ONE. your money is the only tangible thing you spent on her so that's all you get credit for. if you don't accept this then you are obsessive, self-entitled, and a stalker. if you have a problem with this then that's too bad because she has hundreds of thousands of twitter followers armed with hundred dollar hand-painted ukuleles waiting at a moment's notice to form a flash mob- ninja gig, whatever, waiting to purchase her next vinyl and the truth is that they take precedent because THEY ARE THE MEDIA and seriously, you don't matter, but you should be GRATEFUL to not matter because amanda works harder than ANY OTHER ARTIST OUT THERE to connect with her fans. there is no way to prove this but it's true because she likes using twitter and manages to run her business with a small group of people who are involved in the fan community and, luckily for her, are really cool people. it doesn't matter that she has less fans, amanda still appears more connected than other artists, so therefore she makes more of an effort.

You forgot to mention FUCK PLAN B.  

I pretty much agree with what you said, although, again, I don't see much difference between Amanda and any other diva.  The interesting, and perhaps sad thing, about Camille's "disgruntlement" is that she had way, way too much invested in her unrealistic perception of Amanda.  If nothing else, all the crappy music she is now producing should lead to a decrease in the number of those kind of fans.

Oh, and I love your statement "wait, people want to pay for Cd's so cancel that FUCK".

[marie_x]

There I said it.
Her music sucks now...and she hasn't released any new music that's worth listening to.
Okay.

I agree with these opinions...I don't hate her, though. she's doing what she wants to do, and I'm making my own music and listening to the music of other people.

not going to dismiss her completely; 8in8 had some really good songs. hopefully, some of that energy carries into her next album.

cool to see you back here, even under these circumstances.

#@!

glad to be back, even under these circumstances

[marie_x]

Personally I find people that 'hate' musicians/artists for the reasons you outlined to be a little bit creepy. To me hating someone is very personal. Meaning that they have personally set out to upset/hurt/harm you. I don't think that has happened in this instance.

It comes back to the fact that Amanda doesn't owe you anything. There has been a massive shift in her musical style lately, I can see why people wouldn't like it. Plenty of people here don't. They don't use the word hate personally though.

If you had paid for things that weren't delivered to you, like the unreleased tapes and you didn't receive them then I could understand a certain level of anger. But you didn't.

Maybe it is just that I don't understand people expressing actual anger at a change in an artist they like. Maybe you over invested in a one sided relationship. Maybe you have changed and all of this just isn't for you any more.

Hate is a very strong word.

But it does get a lot of people to read threads on a fan board, doesn't it...

Have we not gone over the fact that the word "hate" in the title was facetious and to be clear about the subject of the forum and not me actually saying that I actively HATE Amanda?

[marie_x]

Wow.  It is incredibly obnoxious of you to make a thread like this on her own forum, no less.  Creating a thread called 'I hate Amanda' is pathetic.  I don't care if you were trying to 'make it clear' - it would be just as clear if the thread title was 'Why I don't like Amanda's music anymore' or anything suchlike - seems to me more like you are trying to attract attention in case people didn't notice you were back otherwise.  To hate someone, don't you have to know them?  Fair enough, dislike them and their creations but to say you 'hate' them is really primary school of you, you're not unique and edgy by making this thread.  I'm not going to tread around you so you won't be all 'I'm allowed an opinion!11!!' because there are ways to express your opinion in an adult way, and you're acting like a spoiled brat spitting her dummy out.

Usually, I would just ignore something like this, because I don't really care what brats have to say, but this is going beyond the boundaries of what is socially acceptable, and way beyond the boundaries of what is considered an adult discussion. 

Would it make you feel better if I changed the thread title?

[marie_x]

hmm, many of the posters in this thread,
hate the word hate as it's used in the thread title

seems a lot like the way amanda uses the word "fuck"
as an intensifier, to get a strong feeling across

anyone else has something substantive to post
about the pros and cons of amanda's recent work?


btw, the 8in8 proceeds were done as a fundraiser

and yes,
"Massachusetts Avenue"
really rocks!!!

exactly len- i was just trying to show a strong emotion, not really say that i HATE amanda on a personal level.

[marie_x]

your money is the only tangible thing you spent on her so that's all you get credit for.

Out of curiosity, what else would people like credit for?

I would like credit for the time and devotion I put into her that means nothing to her now.
If not for me- and other fans, she would have never gotten where she is today.

[marie_x]

Just make sure that the jar of Hellmans is just that  

also Camille remember the good times you had with old miss Stripey tights.   remember? She took you to Paris showed you Monmartre and you ate crepes under a tree while playing Uke.

I still love Amanda's old music. I'm still a fan, albeit a disgruntled one.

out of curiosity, how did you find this two year old picture of me?

[marie_x]

I don't think AFP is really that different to any other musician.

i agree with this. i'm glad you said that because i think that i really agree with it and hadn't really realized and therefore i hadn't really said that. but it's kind of the source of my frustration. amanda is not that different from other musicians, yet everyone acts like she is; she's "more connected" with her fans than other artists, or at least that's what seems to be the belief, but i've come to realize it's not true. so i don't understand why it's such a common example of how great she is.

if i'm getting frustrated at shit amanda does that i wouldn't be "allowed" to get frustrated at an other artist for, it's because amanda comes off as being "different from" and "better than" other artists in these ways. so i don't really think it's so unfair.

^ EXACTLY. that's why i'm frustrated!
because everyone acts like and she made it out to be like she was so different than every other musician but she definitely hasn't held up that "promise"

[marie_x]

I don't think AFP is really that different to any other musician.

i agree with this. i'm glad you said that because i think that i really agree with it and hadn't really realized and therefore i hadn't really said that. but it's kind of the source of my frustration. amanda is not that different from other musicians, yet everyone acts like she is; she's "more connected" with her fans than other artists, or at least that's what seems to be the belief, but i've come to realize it's not true. so i don't understand why it's such a common example of how great she is.

if i'm getting frustrated at shit amanda does that i wouldn't be "allowed" to get frustrated at an other artist for, it's because amanda comes off as being "different from" and "better than" other artists in these ways. so i don't really think it's so unfair.

I do not agree with you simply because the person you describe simply is not the person I have encountered.....it always amazes me how many fans across the world Amanda remembers by name....the secret gigs are essentially free meet and greets with no security no plan and no charge.....do not see many other people doing that.....and do not know many artists that allow fans to basically get involved  at every level of her life....yes she is human and certainly no saint.....but I think people kind of expect too much simply because she gives out quite alot already.....simple really...it is alot of time and effort to go on tour and perform and write....anything else we get is very much bonus and we should not assume or expect...and to be fair if her fans were not important and it was all about money, she could go and live a quiet life with her husband and just occasionally do studio recordings......

what Robin said

true of Neil too

i've probably said this more than anything else on both boxes,
but my favorite part of Amanda's and Brian's shows
are the meet-n-greets, and the time they spend with the fans
one-on-one

they care about people, including their fans

you can search down those posts, i've mentioned
if you want details

at the meet n greets i've been to, i haven't really found that to be "one-on-one" time.
it's a rushed picture and maybe a hug and it doesn't really make me feel like she cares about me as a fan.

It comes back to the fact that Amanda doesn't owe you anything.

(this is not directed at you totalfrog)

the thing that sucks the most for me:

it does come back to that. and that is something that amanda never fails to make clear. she is amanda FUCKING palmer, she is NO ONE'S BITCH, she doesn't owe her fans ANYTHING, FUCK A LABEL, FUCK everyone else's idea of legitimate song writing, FUCK everyone who thinks that everything she does is not art, FUCK everyone who was offended by evelyn evelyn, FUCK CDs- wait, people want to pay for CDs so cancel that fuck, FUCK that recording of provanity, FUCK responsibility (she has spent enough time doing things she didn't like), FUCK everyone who wants something from her, FUCK people's expectations, FUCK everyone who expected what she led them to expect, FUCK EVERYTHING. amanda answers to NO ONE. your money is the only tangible thing you spent on her so that's all you get credit for. if you don't accept this then you are obsessive, self-entitled, and a stalker. if you have a problem with this then that's too bad because she has hundreds of thousands of twitter followers armed with hundred dollar hand-painted ukuleles waiting at a moment's notice to form a flash mob- ninja gig, whatever, waiting to purchase her next vinyl and the truth is that they take precedent because THEY ARE THE MEDIA and seriously, you don't matter, but you should be GRATEFUL to not matter because amanda works harder than ANY OTHER ARTIST OUT THERE to connect with her fans. there is no way to prove this but it's true because she likes using twitter and manages to run her business with a small group of people who are involved in the fan community and, luckily for her, are really cool people. it doesn't matter that she has less fans, amanda still appears more connected than other artists, so therefore she makes more of an effort.

You forgot to mention FUCK PLAN B.   

I pretty much agree with what you said, although, again, I don't see much difference between Amanda and any other diva.  The interesting, and perhaps sad thing, about Camille's "disgruntlement" is that she had way, way too much invested in her unrealistic perception of Amanda.  If nothing else, all the crappy music she is now producing should lead to a decrease in the number of those kind of fans.

Oh, and I love your statement "wait, people want to pay for Cd's so cancel that FUCK".

I had invested in my "unrealistic" perception of Amanda because she had led me to believe that this was a realistic perception, and I feel let down because she completely threw that out the fucking window.

[marie_x]

sorry to post so many replies at once! i had a lot of things to tackle.

[The Angel Raliel]

sorry but simply have to disagree with you...yes  things are no longer the mega personal fan link up thing that they used to be....but you got the music and the gigs and the almost unending years of tours...and the post gig meetups and the secret gigs....she still does ALL of that stuff...not to the same extent but her life and ours has moved in different directions....the connection is still very much there none the less....I have invested loads of time and money into amanda gigs as has anyone who has done brigade stuff....not because it was expected, but because we had the opportunity to do so.......I do not think amanda owes me anything ( though technically I still have not been paid for the Umbrellas used by the Danger Ensemble..ha!)
If anything i just feel lucky to have been a part and hopefully will still be a part of a creative community

[marie_x]

sorry but simply have to disagree with you...yes  things are no longer the mega personal fan link up thing that they used to be....but you got the music and the gigs and the almost unending years of tours...and the post gig meetups and the secret gigs....she still does ALL of that stuff...not to the same extent but her life and ours has moved in different directions....the connection is still very much there none the less....I have invested loads of time and money into amanda gigs as has anyone who has done brigade stuff....not because it was expected, but because we had the opportunity to do so.......I do not think amanda owes me anything ( though technically I still have not been paid for the Umbrellas used by the Danger Ensemble..ha!)
If anything i just feel lucky to have been a part and hopefully will still be a part of a creative community

I've begun to realize that the "connection" isn't there, and was never really there to begin with, even though she seemed to pretend that that was the case.

[The Angel Raliel]

nope the connection IS there......but there are thousands of us fans and only one of her (and neil etc) to expect a deep and personal involvement is unrealistic......the amount of contact she manages is pretty heroic considering

[The Angel Raliel]

Oh and if you want more direct contact, then put effort in.........expecting more than a polite hello or even her to remember your name ( which she does on a regular basis) is simply fantasy

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

Oh and if you want more direct contact, then put effort in.........expecting more than a polite hello or even her to remember your name ( which she does on a regular basis) is simply fantasy

i don't think anyone expects that.

when i talk about not caring about her old fans i don't mean that i want her to know my name and call and text me to see how i'm doing. i just mean that i wish she would release more legitimate music for the people who were fans of her music and not fans of her image. not make, just release, because she has a lot of stuff she's said she would release, like her demos, and her live songs she didn't plan to finish, but apparently the ukulele is somehow easier. i dunno.

[marie_x]

nope the connection IS there......but there are thousands of us fans and only one of her (and neil etc) to expect a deep and personal involvement is unrealistic......the amount of contact she manages is pretty heroic considering

amanda works harder than ANY OTHER ARTIST OUT THERE to connect with her fans. there is no way to prove this but it's true because she likes using twitter

^ i think what jesse said pretty much sums it up as far as THAT, but really what jesse just said is more accurate about why i'm upset.

[The Angel Raliel]

ok...so it is purely a musical direction you do not like? that is not how many of the posts have seemed......
musicians are not record players and will do stuff that they find interesting, if that works with the fans then great! if a proportion of your fans do not like it..thats fine too!   sadly one of the things that stops musicians and performers from connecting with their fans and withdrawing the intimacy is precisely this sort of neediness in fans.....as an artist i would not dream of compromising my creativity simply because some people do not like what i do..and alot of people really DO not like my artwork

[The Angel Raliel]

indeed

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

You meet thousands of people who all say much of the same thing, positive or not, and try to be ~~~soooo connected~~~ with all of them. Oh, also fill a venue up with people and try to have one-on-one time with each and every one of them. Basically, it's impossible and I don't even understand how you can see it as logical to ask for it. Frankly, she doesn't need to do half the things she does. Other artists don't. And yet she does and so people like you build up these massive expectations and are harshly disappointed when it turns out that she's only human, which, by the way, also accounts for half of the other stuff I see being complained about. So she says things on twitter and everyone goes 'OH MY GOD WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU SAY THAT?!'...If you had that many people watching and following you, I've no doubt you'd get the same response frequently. As would I and pretty much anyone else who has ever said anything that has been taken the opposite way to how it was intended. Same with when she suggests things are going to happen and then they don't, really. Same with change in general too.

You can think whatever you want about Amanda. Listen to her, don't listen to her, like her, completely hate her from the depths of your soul and with the fire of 1000 suns, I don't give a fuck. You've come back, made a post that no one would have given a flying fuck about if you hadn't tried so hard to be shocking and special that had no real purpose beyond letting everyone know that you're back and have a POTENTIALLY UNPOPULAR OPINION OH MY GOD and you are refusing to realise that perhaps someone else has a point and while you might too, it's not entirely without flaw.

[JohnnyDBBUK]

Amanda goes above and beyond for her fans
not just a hug and a picture

sometimes she makes out with them in front of her husband

DEDICATION

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

Amanda goes above and beyond for her fans
not just a hug and a picture

sometimes she makes out with them in front of her husband

DEDICATION

And their girlfriends.

In front of the fans girlfriends I mean. Probably also their girlfriends. I haven't experienced this and do not care to.

[The Angel Raliel]

Audrey speak truth.......me LIKE

[The Angel Raliel]

Amanda goes above and beyond for her fans
not just a hug and a picture

sometimes she makes out with them in front of her husband

DEDICATION

..and random monks.....

[marie_x]

at the meet n greets i've been to, i haven't really found that to be "one-on-one" time.
it's a rushed picture and maybe a hug and it doesn't really make me feel like she cares about me as a fan.

Yet more brat talk.  What else do you expect?  You want her to read you a bedtime story?  Maybe take your number, Skype you every few days?  What we probably need to understand here is that you are bitter that you've got some fantasy of being Amandas bff going on in your head and she doesn't have the time to be everybodys bff.

All joking aside, I am curious as to what else you really expect to get at a meet and greet.  A picture and a hug is more than a lot of artists will give you the time for and for a woman who does that for all her fans, that is extremely generous.  

Keep in mind that I said that IN REPLY to what someone else said, and what I said wasn't an issue that I find that I'm angry/bitter about.
I was saying that in response to people acting like she was a lot more personal with her fans than she is. I'm OKAY with that.

ok...so it is purely a musical direction you do not like? that is not how many of the posts have seemed......
musicians are not record players and will do stuff that they find interesting, if that works with the fans then great! if a proportion of your fans do not like it..thats fine too!   sadly one of the things that stops musicians and performers from connecting with their fans and withdrawing the intimacy is precisely this sort of neediness in fans.....as an artist i would not dream of compromising my creativity simply because some people do not like what i do..and alot of people really DO not like my artwork

I don't even want her to MAKE new music! She promised the release of several recordings to her fans, and those promises were never delivered.

[marie_x]

I agree with Audrey, also.

And

ok...so it is purely a musical direction you do not like? that is not how many of the posts have seemed......

I'm pretty sure she's trying to claim that because Jesse has a very valid point with that and she wants an ally.  Most of the complaint, from where I am sitting, is that she isn't as close to Amanda as she wants to be.

Jesse and I are very good friends and I started this thread while talking to him about this issue already. We both have the same view on all of this.

[The Angel Raliel]

that is kind of a tiny premis for this thread...and she may well still do so...( although technically everything released is for her fans...otherwise what is the point?) unfortunate that you do not like her current artistic direction...but if you want  a band that does not change EVER go listen to Status Quo

[marie_x]

I agree with Audrey, also.

And

ok...so it is purely a musical direction you do not like? that is not how many of the posts have seemed......

I'm pretty sure she's trying to claim that because Jesse has a very valid point with that and she wants an ally.  Most of the complaint, from where I am sitting, is that she isn't as close to Amanda as she wants to be.

Jesse and I are very good friends and I started this thread while talking to him about this issue already. We both have the same view on all of this.

As much as you may vehemently deny it, you have some extra issues that you possibly don't share with Jesse.  And now you're backpedaling like an expert.  I respect Jesses views because they are always valid and he doesn't bullshit around like you are doing.  Perhaps you shouldn't have mentioned your issues with not being loved enough as a fan, if you didn't want to be taken up on it.

Perhaps I wouldn't have even cared to share anything on these insignificant issues to me if people hadn't argued how CONNECTED she is with her fans.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

There I said it.
Her music sucks now and I can't bear to read any more of the constant obnoxious twitter updates.
She doesn't care about her old fans and she hasn't released any new music that's worth listening to.
Okay.

i'm obviously a fan, like, i've spent plenty of time here.
my point wasn't really that i "hated" amanda, it was that i am now a disgruntled fan.
i put my time and energy into loving and caring about her and i feel like i was promised things that were never delivered, both literally and figuratively. (a literal example: that she would release unreleased songs after she got dropped from her record label. it didn't happen.)

^ i truly don't think this thread was about not getting enough affection. 

and for what it's worth, the dresden dolls have 50,000 more fans than amanda palmer on facebook. has her ability to meet with fans really changed that much? i'm not saying this because i care about that; i'm only bringing it up because i'm not even sure that it's a legitimate concern either way.

[The Angel Raliel]

that was kind of the implication of the first post

[Pope Totalfrog]

at the meet n greets i've been to, i haven't really found that to be "one-on-one" time.
it's a rushed picture and maybe a hug and it doesn't really make me feel like she cares about me as a fan.

I had invested in my "unrealistic" perception of Amanda because she had led me to believe that this was a realistic perception, and I feel let down because she completely threw that out the fucking window.

Translation - I am butthurt because Amanda doesn't want to be my BFF.

You've had your five minutes worth of attention from this thread. Might be time for you to move on.

[imaginary friend]

There I said it.
Her music sucks now and I can't bear to read any more of the constant obnoxious twitter updates.
She doesn't care about her old fans and she hasn't released any new music that's worth listening to.
Okay.

i'm obviously a fan, like, i've spent plenty of time here.
my point wasn't really that i "hated" amanda, it was that i am now a disgruntled fan.
i put my time and energy into loving and caring about her and i feel like i was promised things that were never delivered, both literally and figuratively. (a literal example: that she would release unreleased songs after she got dropped from her record label. it didn't happen.)

^ i truly don't think this thread was about not getting enough affection. 

I don't think so either.

#@!

[The Angel Raliel]

..Quote...She does not care about her old fans

[dollz4eva]

I dont get this! I love Amanda!

[dirtyyarbles]

at the meet n greets i've been to, i haven't really found that to be "one-on-one" time.
it's a rushed picture and maybe a hug and it doesn't really make me feel like she cares about me as a fan.

Yet more brat talk.  What else do you expect?  You want her to read you a bedtime story?  Maybe take your number, Skype you every few days?  What we probably need to understand here is that you are bitter that you've got some fantasy of being Amandas bff going on in your head and she doesn't have the time to be everybodys bff.

All joking aside, I am curious as to what else you really expect to get at a meet and greet.  A picture and a hug is more than a lot of artists will give you the time for and for a woman who does that for all her fans, that is extremely generous.  

Thank you for saying this!

I've noticed more and more this type of entitlement attitude here, one of the reasons I bother here less and less. Some seem to think of Amanda (and any other "artist") as their puppet of sorts, they want them to do only as they see fit, to tickle their whim and fancy, to feed their personal sense of need. If they shift outside of their "likes" then they've been "betrayed". It's ridiculous. No artist owes you anything. If artists only did what the "fans" wanted, then what the fuck kind of artists would they really be? They're not here to feed you the "art" you want, they are here to create the art They want.

Have I liked much of anything Amanda has done since WKAP? Not really. Am I angry or feel betrayed because I've spent 8 or so years and tons of $$$ admiring/supporting her? Hell no. Dissapointed? Sure. But in no way am I angry with her, I want her to do what the fuck she wants, how she wants to, when she wants to. I want her to express herself how she wants, to feel the freedom to do so, I want her to do as any real artist would, say fuck it and create/be/do as they want, to please themselves, not the world or anyone else. That to me is what art is about. I may not continue to support what she does, but having hard feelings towards her, a stranger to me (1 fan amoungst thousands) is just absurd. None of us own her, control her, can tell her what to do and not to do, force her to create a certain way, and in my honest opinion, it's very creepy (and just plain wrong) to want to do that to anyone, let alone an artist, again what kind of art is it when it's confined into "pleasing others"?

Heck I haven't cared for the last few albums Conor Oberst has put out, I've invested alot of emotion into his music, his words/writing, but am I pissed at him? Again No. I'm dissapointed and sad, but such is life, he's a person as we all are, nothing more or less, he changes, goes through phases, if he never writes a thing again that I connect to I won't be angry, I will just continue to admire what he did provide that continues to mean so much to me.

The same with so many other artists, could you imagine if we all got so angry and betrayed each time an artist released something/moved in a direction we didn't personally like? Jeez I would have to toss every bit of art, of every form, that I own.



I've followed Amanda/the Dolls for quite awhile, I never felt like I was owed anything, I never felt she promised me anything, she just a person, like any of us, providing her art to all of us, we can take it or leave it. If I decide to leave this new stuff behind then so be it, I don't want her to create something just to please me and my taste, that wouldn't be art to me, that, to me, would be the ultimate sell-out.

And no I never felt that she was greedly reaching into my pockets/only wanting money from me. I almost think some here would rather she be a literal "starving artist", like us all she needs money to survive, to contiue providing us with her art, if you do not support what she's doing then don't buy or give her anything, she practically gives her music away for free, she asks you to support her if you wish and feel her art is worthwhile, no one's being forced.


All in all, disapointment I get, anger/betrayal/hate is taking everything to a highly personal, creepingly entitled, level. Remember you're 1 fan amoungst thousands, she can not cater to you on a individual level, nor should she.


I'm sure none of that made any sense, I'm thinking on almost 2 days lack of sleep here, so bless anyone who could read, or heaven forbid, understand any of that 

[Agonistes]

you know, it's funny, but when i am a fan to someone, my instinct is to pretty much leave them alone.  it makes me feel too invested in their creative process to 'get to know' them further than a quick photo or autograph, and i usually try to squeeze in a quick 'thank you for what you do' or 'enjoyed the show' at least, but hugging anyone makes me uncomfortable.  i've no intention of demanding a hug from someone i don't know, and standing awkwardly wanting more conversation isn't my style of action at all.  pursuing a 'friendship' with someone just because i admire their work also has the feel of pathetic and somewhat sleazy to me...if i am to sit in someone's company and converse, i want there to be a reason that brought us together other than my lust for their genius, or whatever.

[Savannah]

you know, it's funny, but when i am a fan to someone, my instinct is to pretty much leave them alone.  it makes me feel too invested in their creative process to 'get to know' them further than a quick photo or autograph, and i usually try to squeeze in a quick 'thank you for what you do' or 'enjoyed the show' at least, but hugging anyone makes me uncomfortable.  i've no intention of demanding a hug from someone i don't know, and standing awkwardly wanting more conversation isn't my style of action at all.  pursuing a 'friendship' with someone just because i admire their work also has the feel of pathetic and somewhat sleazy to me...if i am to sit in someone's company and converse, i want there to be a reason that brought us together other than my lust for their genius, or whatever.

I totally agree with you. I usually avoid getting to know a person i'm fan of.

Though i can't say i'm a fan of somebody. My feelings are sorta limited with appreciation. Even though i like a band a lot, i don't feel like sticking their posters on my wall, watching their performance from the first line, begging for an autograph or hug, etc.

I used to be a huge fan of a local musician here. She's one of the most famous musicians of my country. We had some common friends, but it took me years to say just a simple hello to her. Not because of pride or something, i didn't think it necessary, i felt like it might be disappointing. And it totally was. Because i attended lots of concerts, her back vocalist and bass guitarist are my long time friends, i have seen her performing maybe for a million times. And i loved her being so cute and respectful to her fans while she's on stage. But that one day i have seen her out of the stage, she was a moody diva rather than that cute singer.

While we were sitting in the lounge with my friends, she stormed in shouting at her bodyguards, friends asked what's wrong, she told "these idiots let the fans in and they all asked for autographs, how many times do i have to tell them that i hate it?! why did you guys left me alone, i need to get my drink, what a silent audinence was that, this place sucks, bla bla bla...". She didn't even notice me, and i was afraid of her so i didn't say anything until i left there. While i was leaving i just said "hello, it was a great performance, thanks and goodnight".

I didn't get angry with her for disappointing me. There have been some days i have behaved even worse to the people around me. It's normal. I just got angry with me for staying there and eye witnessing for such a personal issue for her, and for over estimating her in my mind.

So it's been the last time i have considered myself as a fan of a musician. Because i understood that we are over estimating these people, and think they are semi-gods or something like that. They're just humanbeings like any of us, they may make mistakes, they may be having a bad day, they may be totally different than the character they pretend to be while they're on the stage, they may be shy, they may get angry, etc. It's show business, and most mucisians think that they have to hide their negative feelings or behaviours from their fans.

Not that i think Amanda is moody or careless to her fans. She seems to be completely respectful and friendly. I just told this, because i think it's not fair to expect any musician to be a warm-hearted 7/24. And it's nonsense to expect them to give you calls or tweets or text messages unless they're a real friend of you.

[Pope Totalfrog]

you know, it's funny, but when i am a fan to someone, my instinct is to pretty much leave them alone.  it makes me feel too invested in their creative process to 'get to know' them further than a quick photo or autograph, and i usually try to squeeze in a quick 'thank you for what you do' or 'enjoyed the show' at least, but hugging anyone makes me uncomfortable.  i've no intention of demanding a hug from someone i don't know, and standing awkwardly wanting more conversation isn't my style of action at all.  pursuing a 'friendship' with someone just because i admire their work also has the feel of pathetic and somewhat sleazy to me...if i am to sit in someone's company and converse, i want there to be a reason that brought us together other than my lust for their genius, or whatever.

I feel the same way. I will happily say thank you or shake someone's hand but I am not into the whole "hug your idol" thing. I don't even usually bother to go to meet and greets or signings.

I will say though, Amanda has hugged two of my children and they were thoroughly pleased with it. They had no complaints at all.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

alright, honestly, i'm surprised at what's going on. as i see it there are two options:

1) we don't know amanda personally, therefore the negativity is directed at the art/creation of the art
2) we do know amanda personally, therefore the feelings are directed at her

CLEARLY it's not option 2, so can we please stop arguing about whether or not camille is "creepy" and projecting "highly personal" feelings onto amanda like she's some sort of victim? since we don't know amanda then anything that would seemingly be directed at her anyway is invalid so who fucking cares.

none of the ideas and opinions expressed in this thread was directed at Amanda MacKinnon Palmer. they were about amanda FUCKING palmer, the image of the artist carefully depicted to her fans. i do not agree that the two are the same. closely linked, yes, but still separate. i can't imagine that anyone honestly thinks camille knows amanda well enough to qualify her opinions as being worthy of pertaining to the "real" amanda. so like how is this even an issue.

[Agonistes]

alright, honestly, i'm surprised at what's going on. as i see it there are two options:

1) we don't know amanda personally, therefore the negativity is directed at the art/creation of the art
2) we do know amanda personally, therefore the feelings are directed at her

CLEARLY it's not option 2, so can we please stop arguing about whether or not camille is "creepy" and projecting "highly personal" feelings onto amanda like she's some sort of victim? since we don't know amanda then anything that would seemingly be directed at her anyway is invalid so who fucking cares.

none of the ideas and opinions expressed in this thread was directed at Amanda MacKinnon Palmer. they were about amanda FUCKING palmer, the image of the artist carefully depicted to her fans. i do not agree that the two are the same. closely linked, yes, but still separate. i can't imagine that anyone honestly thinks camille knows amanda well enough to qualify her opinions as being worthy of pertaining to the "real" amanda. so like how is this even an issue.

my only disagreement with camille was the title of the thread, which i will admit irritated me.  still does.  otherwise, i don't even know her, and certainly am in no position to make personal judgements.  my agreeing with, and quoting, hillary above is based on my first hasty reading of this thread, and she might have said it more sharply than i would have, but again, i don't know camille, and that's what it looked like.  i didn't get the 'sarcasam' in the thread title.  i still don't.  if you DO hate amanda palmer, and you're not enjoying being here on her forum, why the hell make a thread about it?  what outcome could one possibly expect from phrasing one's complaints in this manner?  why not make a thread about how you got to where you are with the issue, instead?  would seem a more logical choice if one were truly interested in, and concerned with, the direction their star was taking in life/career/fan relations.  i don't disagree with the sentiment at all.  but i disagree with the approach, which for all the world does indeed look like nothing more than attention-seeking and butthurt.  i get camille's explanation that it is not, but that doesn't stop it looking exactly as i have described.  suffice it to say, she had to explain, and therefore maybe that fact should illuminate that the original phrasing was less than clear.

i'm not overly 'into' any artist's perception of themselves.  artists give themselves titles and nicknames all the time.  i've done it myself.  artists are an egotistical, experimental lot with lots of good intentions and way less motivation.  if amanda wants to call herself amanda FUCKING palmer, that's fine with me.  it neither attracts nor repels me.  i have just about always had friends who call themselves blah FUCKING blah at one time or another, for whatever reason.  why shouldn't she?  (and incidentally, i see no difference between AFP and amanda palmer, except one is unofficially a stage name, and one is a given name.  since i know neither person, i am unable to draw a line between the two, nor am i all that convinced the line between the two is visible to amanda herself.  i don't know, because i don't know her.  but i don't see the dividing line as clearly as you seem to)

i don't know amanda personally by any means, but i do know a couple of people who can be considered 'famous.'  just about every single one of them has a story about a fan who, for whatever reason, felt slighted in some emotional way and ended up cussing or yelling at that person or that person's people for it.  like they were somehow owed something beyond the sweaty cd they are clutching they paid over ten bucks for that that artist paid, what, fifteen cents to have burned and printed?

art's a beautiful thing, and the artist/fan relationship can be whatever it is, whatever the artist is comfortable with.  not what the fans are comfortable with, because at the end of the day they end up owning precisely nothing of the artist as a person; they are part of that person's social, outward, professional projection of self.  at the end of the day, even a fan that gets invited to the hotel room is not getting a view of the inside of anybody (metaphorically).  i've noticed (and experienced) an unwillingness and a difficulty for amanda palmer's fans to see the very clear line between amanda and AFP.  hell, i've watched those fans stroll across that line right in front of me.

at the end of the day, a fan is a paycheck.  even if it's only the money to keep on doing what one is doing, one needs the money to keep on doing what one is doing, and one needs the coldness of heart to throw the fan that sneaked onto the bus, back off it.  it doesn't matter how awesome the imagery of the party bus full of love is, at some point, the people riding the bus have to lock its doors and get some sleep.

[Chris Con]

Jesus, people. calm down.
i don't see the point in sitting in front of the screen so ardently defending amanda when one girl "hates" her..
(meanwhile her avatar is a photo of her kissing amanda)

let's just wait for amanda's next big release shall we?

[JohnnyDBBUK]

anyone want to place bets that her next big release will be a baby

[Agonistes]

anyone want to place bets that her next big release will be a baby

im personally going to avoid that bet with everything in my power.   

[The Angel Raliel]

anyone want to place bets that her next big release will be a baby

I would not be at all surprised.......Amanda's eyebrows and neil's hair.................hmmm...................

[imaginary friend]

she ain't gettin' any younger.

#@!

[Savannah]

she ain't gettin' any younger.

#@!

Neil ain't getting any younger too.

And i see most musicians & actrists delay having a baby so much that in the end they get too old to have a baby. Children take too much time to be born and grown up, years without having any time to write a song or release an album.

They're a beautiful couple, and if Amanda wishes to have a baby, well she must.

[Morpheus Laughing]

A baby is the one release that I would be seriously unimpressed with.

I can’t say I’ve ever been ecstatic to hear news of that particular type of experimentation.

[Musings]

The title of this thread exists because

A) Camille is trolling for a reaction and wants to stir up a fight -- maybe even a blog mention by the person kissing her face off in her avatar! In which case, you go girl, but stick to your guns if that's what you wanted.  No one likes a half-assed troll.
B) Camille is naive and young and actually thinks that this title is appropriate to discuss criticism of Amanda's recent work and career choices.  In which case, you know I adore you Jesse, but you can maybe teach your close friend a thing about life and thoughtful criticism.  I know you're capable of it, but she seems to be floundering.

As for criticism:

I have no bones to pick about how Amanda treats her fans, or fellow musicians for that part.  The last show I saw was free and had an open bar.  Her openers seemed a little stunned and joyful to be there.  Enough said.

Do I think the tweeting is a lot?  While it unnerves me to know so many details of her life at times, she also puts a lot of insanely intimate details in her blog.  But if I have to read about her being excited to have her period because it allows her to have condom-less sex with Neil in order to also read a crazy and beautifully vignette about an old monk's sexuality, then I will.  I'm not on Twitter a whole lot anymore, and as such, miss a lot of those annoying posts.

The music -- her music has grown in a different direction than I have.  I think I've finally made my peace with that.  As you might be able to tell from my previous posts, I've struggled to find my place in new Amanda Palmer land.  I'm no longer in the same place I was when I first listened to the Dresden Dolls and WKAP, I no longer find this place to be the same haven it was when I was in a very dark place.

But maybe that's the point: how rare and magical it is that one person's song make a difference at exactly the right moment, how beautiful it is to find friendship in strangers when you need them.  Everything is fleeting, but everything is also connected.  Those past versions of myself owe Amanda Palmer's music a lot, so even when I find myself frustrated with my lack of inspiration by her music now, I think that perhaps I wouldn't have made it to this moment, or at least to this much wholer and happier version of myself (who sometimes cannot believe I listened to Have to Drive and Thirty Whacks on repeat for days), without that soundtrack, and those friendships, pushing me forward.

[JohnnyDBBUK]

I miss the pre-uke centred days.
When Uke played a tiny part of her shows.
and a crazed viggie blasted beside her.
and the Brigade was busy and had lots of interested members.

[The Angel Raliel]

indeed but we had them....good times...we need to move onwards too

[Zoe Amory]

...this is why we can't have nice things.  

I dunno, I may have missed a point or two here but for what it's worth, here's my two cents...

If someone gives you something for free or for a dollar you don't bitch and moan about it and complain how it's not what you expected or wanted. If you don't think you'll like it, don't accept it. I would understand the bitching about the quality/style of the newer songs if Amanda told her fans "Hey everybody, pay me twenty bucks for this album you may or may not like!" But she doesn't. She asks for a dollar, sometimes not even that. If you don't like what you've downloaded, don't donate and if you've paid a dollar for it, well... it's one god damn dollar, if you can't afford it, again: don't download.

Yes Amanda's music has changed, frankly I myself prefer her earlier work over the ukulele adventures but I don't think the uke songs are bad or not worth that dollar or two she's requested her fans pay for downloading them.

As for being connected to her fans... well, I've never met Amanda in person so I can't really say what she's really like up close and personal but I don't throw a bitch fit every time she doesn't respond to a tweet or an email. I imagine she's actually rather busy because as devoted as I assume she is to her fans, she has the right to say no sometimes and just live her life too. We all have that right, we don't fucking have to talk to the telemarketer on the phone every time they call, right? So does Amanda owe me a response to my email/tweet/whatever just because I bought an album or fifteen T-shirts? Hell no. The producers of Star Trek: Voyager don't owe me a phone call because I bought the DVD boxes, the director of T2 doesn't owe me a thank you note just because I bought a poster. You get the picture.

The thing is tho that Amanda does actually thank you. And to me she comes across as sincere. Buuut again, I haven't met her in person so maybe I'm not the best judge of that. The general feeling I get of her based on what I've read and seen on YT and such is that she wants to be there, talk to her fans, hang out with them and just... you know, be her.

It makes me kinda angry to see how ungrateful we seem to come across sometimes. I'm not saying we should all instantly just like everything Amanda does, of course not. But I am sincerely just wondering... what the hell are some people bitching and moaning about? She's giving you stuff, her art and her time, if you don't want it, don't take it but also don't fucking whine how the stuff you got from her isn't what you wanted. Gawd!  You don't have to listen to her, you don't have to read her tweets or blogs but if you do then at least try to enjoy it for what it is instead of always finding something wrong with it.

...that's all.

[lentower]

^ what Zoe A said !

[The Angel Raliel]

....indeed

[Zoe Amory]

..actually now that I think about it, it makes me more sad than angry. If I try to put myself in Amanda's shoes for a while here and imagine what it would feel like to read whining and moaning about things I'm giving away for free (whereas most artists do not!) just because I want to share something personal and something I love... I probably would've just told everyone something along the lines of "I hate you all" and just left in a huff. Thankfully Amanda's obviously a bigger person than I am.

But seriously just... augh. 

[The Angel Raliel]

..actually now that I think about it, it makes me more sad than angry. If I try to put myself in Amanda's shoes for a while here and imagine what it would feel like to read whining and moaning about things I'm giving away for free (whereas most artists do not!) just because I want to share something personal and something I love... I probably would've just told everyone something along the lines of "I hate you all" and just left in a huff. Thankfully Amanda's obviously a bigger person than I am.

But seriously just... augh. 

well indeed and it is one of the reasons celebs avoid fan  connection

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

As for being connected to her fans... well, I've never met Amanda in person so I can't really say what she's really like up close and personal but I don't throw a bitch fit every time she doesn't respond to a tweet or an email.

congratulations on arguing against no one because, as previously made clear, no one ever complained about this.

[Zoe Amory]

Mhmm, not yet but I'm sure that'll be thrown into the mix sooner or later.
And for what it's worth, I don't think I was actually arguing, merely making a statement. But whatever makes you feel better about it, kiddo.

[The Angel Raliel]

kind of like the way you young uns use controversy as a way of being noticed.....

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

Mhmm, not yet but I'm sure that'll be thrown into the mix sooner or later.
And for what it's worth, I don't think I was actually arguing, merely making a statement.

you made a post in support of a point and implied that you were countering someone else's point. that's an argument.

But whatever makes you feel better about it, kiddo.

...seriously?

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

kind of like the way you young uns use controversy as a way of being noticed.....

and experience tremendous success because the apparently-not-young uns do everything in their power to make it clear that they HAVE noticed.

if you believe that this is not a valid discussion, then fine. but otherwise, i think that we're capable of ignoring the possibility that camille had an ulterior motive for making this thread.

[Zoe Amory]

Mhmm, not yet but I'm sure that'll be thrown into the mix sooner or later.
And for what it's worth, I don't think I was actually arguing, merely making a statement.

you made a post in support of a point and implied that you were countering someone else's point. that's an argument.

But whatever makes you feel better about it, kiddo.

...seriously?

Oh my yes, seriously.

Actually what I was trying to say was that since I do not know Amanda personally nor have I had the chance to meet her in person, I cannot comment on how she connects with fans on a personal level but that I accept and understand if and when she does not have the time to connect with someone, in my case this would have to be via email or Twitter. Since that would be the equivalent of meeting her to me, I stated that I don't throw a bitch fit even if she doesn't respond, in other words if she doesn't have the time to connect with me. From what I read (provided my understanding of the English language hasn't gone down the drain recently) was that the original poster had an issue with Amanda's new music and also with the way Amanda connects with her fans (or doesn't connect) nowadays.
Better?

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

Mhmm, not yet but I'm sure that'll be thrown into the mix sooner or later.
And for what it's worth, I don't think I was actually arguing, merely making a statement.

you made a post in support of a point and implied that you were countering someone else's point. that's an argument.

But whatever makes you feel better about it, kiddo.

...seriously?

Oh my yes, seriously.

Actually what I was trying to say was that since I do not know Amanda personally nor have I had the chance to meet her in person, I cannot comment on how she connects with fans on a personal level but that I accept and understand if and when she does not have the time to connect with someone, in my case this would have to be via email or Twitter. Since that would be the equivalent of meeting her to me, I stated that I don't throw a bitch fit even if she doesn't respond, in other words if she doesn't have the time to connect with me. From what I read (provided my understanding of the English language hasn't gone down the drain recently) was that the original poster had an issue with Amanda's new music and also with the way Amanda connects with her fans (or doesn't connect) nowadays.
Better?

ok

[Vaati Raptor]

This thread stuck out like a sore thumb. For those of you who defended the artist this whole site is based on, glad to have you.

But the person who started this thread.. you don't deserve better from Amanda. She's already the best she can be. However, if you want to say someone deserves something I think it's Amanda who deserves a better fan. She works her ass off and gives of herself freely because it is her passion and she's a good fucking person. What kind of piss poor fan would go on a rant and say she hates someone who obviously is doing her best and does actually connect with her fans? It's ungrateful and it's arrogant. Just my two cents. 

[Vaati Raptor]

That's just sad for her I guess, Amanda's work is very good and it's evolving, I like to watch the process. Is there already a thread called I love Amanda Palmer? I'd like to throw some words on a thread like that.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

Is there already a thread called I love Amanda Palmer?

there is actually an entire messageboard for that called theshadowbox.

i think the fact that this is just about the only active thread in the section for discussion about amanda's music says everything.

camille made a thread about her disappointment in amanda's direction and the fact that amanda seems to have forgotten about or chosen to ignore the people who were fans of her original art, which is much different than what amanda does now.  and despite the fact that there could be a legitimate discussion here about artistic growth and development and releasing unreleased old material, and MANY OTHER REAL THINGS, no one seems to be able to adequately articulate a counterargument, or these arguments are being ignored by the people who should be siding with them, or they just don't care enough to comment on anything other than their perception of camille's motives for making the thread.

it's nine pages in! there is literally nothing more that can be said to convince anyone about camille. but if anyone truly believes that this thead was created so she could get attention, then to reply to it is completely illogical, and in fact, seems like attention-seeking behavior in and of itself.

and if you DO believe that there is a valid discussion to be had, then CAMILLE AND HER MOTIVES ARE IRRELEVANT.

either way, i cannot think of a legitimate reason why she is continuously brought up.

[Vaati Raptor]

Ooooo, I love sarcasm.

Also, 'I hate Amanda' isn't exactly a statement that allows for a lot of wiggle room. Peeves with Amanda's work? Critiques of Amanda? Title it that, but hate is a very strong word and frankly any so called fan posting a hate thread is just not a good fan, but that's my opinion.

I'm not questioning her motive, clearly she's pissed that Amanda is evolving in her work and not doing certain things the way she would want, but what irks me is the title and the malice contained therein. Kind of hard to ignore. With fans like that who needs enemies? 

[Zoe Amory]

I do not know Camille let alone her motives, what I do personally think however is that if her intention was to indeed create a thread to discuss the music Amanda makes nowadays and how it's different from her previous work, Camille should have considered giving the thread a less aggressive beginning, not to mention a less personal title. Also what I read -as in again my own personal view of the posts- came across as whining. Whining about the fact that she is not getting the same quality songs as the older works of Amanda Palmer, how she feels she is not being noticed and appreciated enough as a fan. It's all right not to like the new stuff and if you don't then say so but do it without sounding like an obnoxious brat and there may even be a reasonable discussion about the subject.

If you wanted legitimate discussion about artistic development and growth you wouldn't start off by saying "I HATE ALL THE NEW THINGS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THE SAME AS THE OLD ONES!" I don't even... I mean, really?  Don't the new songs just show how Amanda has indeed grown as an artist? Sure, the songs may sound a bit simpler now but does it mean she's taken steps back and gotten worse? I don't think it does, on the contrary, she's growing into different directions, trying out new things, learning new instruments. Why does that have to be a negative thing?

As for the unreleased tracks, I don't know what's up with those, has anyone asked Amanda herself?

[jupiter or japan]

Flame title. Try to put out with love. If love does not vanquish the flames, walk away and let it burn.

I love Amanda, and have no time for hate.

[beth of all trades]

Is there already a thread called I love Amanda Palmer?

there is actually an entire messageboard for that called theshadowbox.

Jesse, I hope I never end up on the wrong side of an intellectual discussion with you.  While I've only quoted the LOL part of your post, I have to say I'm once again impressed with how articulate and aware you are.  

I wrote a whole response to this about the economics of the fan-artist relationship, the idea of artist as product, fan burn-out and more, but I realized that this thread is already so adversarial that a real discussion of the issues that Camille (rather clumsily) raised would probably be impossible.  

I, in my totally unaffiliated capacity, think including dissenting voices in conversation is always a good idea, because communities are stronger and smarter when the people in them don't all believe the same thing.  

[yosmark]

Well I hate Metallica, can't stand some good friends on twitter and don't know A's new stuff.

Mass. Av. is a good song I hope it makes it to a record!

[Hayley Fiasco!]

If love does not vanquish the flames, walk away and let it burn.

I like this, particularly out of context.

And because there's an emoticon for everything:
 

[Cheddars Cousin]

There's a whole lot of maturity hanging out in this thread.

I've got your maturity hanging right here!

[Hayley Fiasco!]

There's a whole lot of maturity hanging out in this thread.

I've got your maturity hanging right here!

Cheddar, I appreciate your irony, but put away your string cheese.

[Cheddars Cousin]

Wait 'til you see my mozzarella balls...

[imaginary friend]

Wait 'til you see my blue mozzarella balls...

fixd!

#@!

[Agonistes]

Wait 'til you see my bleu mozzarella balls...

fixd!

#@!

fixt again

[Astica]

How did I JUST see this thread?

It seems that people with the most extreme emotions about something tend to be the ones who swing to the most extreme ends when that thing changes. I've fancied the new stuff a bit less than the old stuff, but I still listen to the old stuff quite a bit, and I don't use twitter, so don't have any problems with anything that happens over there. It's like Raliel said on the first page (yes I skipped from the first to the tenth), people change. Artists always continue to grow. Good ones, anyway. It would get boring if Amanda had continued to do the same thing.

Who knows, maybe the next phase of her artistic development will be the best yet?

[Mockery]

I don't think I could ever hate Amanda. I applaud of her for not conforming to popular music standards. She's in this for the music, not the money.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

She's in this for the music

i'm pretty sure this is not true at all. as i remember, amanda's said multiple times that music is nothing but a way for her to connect with people.

[Astica]

She's definitely not in it for the money, though XD

[Mockery]

She's in this for the music

i'm pretty sure this is not true at all. as i remember, amanda's said multiple times that music is nothing but a way for her to connect with people.

Then she is doing what she loves because she wants to connect to people. Either way, she could care less about the money.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

she could care less about the money.

lol k.

[lentower]

she could care less about the money.

lol k.

from what I can see,
money is a tool for amanda.
necessary to live life,
and get her art done,
but not an end in itself

she also does well,
at doing alot with little money:
more with less

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

she could care less about the money.

lol k.

from what I can see,
money is a tool for amanda.
necessary to live life,
and get her art done,
but not an end in itself

thank you for saying this. i agree, and while it's a basic, seemingly-obvious fact, i feel like it's ignored or denied a lot.

amanda needs to live; her JOB is being an artist. there's nothing to be ashamed of. of course she wants  money; she needs it to live. there's no reason to act like she's some sort of charity performer; it's not as if every free recording she gives away is JUST because she just wants people to have her music. she wants to acquire more fans, and this is a means to do so; more fans means more people may buy merch, and more people may buy tickets for shows. she's choosing to make her money that way rather than by selling the music itself. there is no shame in this, but it bothers me when people put her on a pedestal based on the the idea that she has no intentions related in anyway to monetary gain.

[beth of all trades]

she could care less about the money.

lol k.

from what I can see,
money is a tool for amanda.
necessary to live life,
and get her art done,
but not an end in itself

thank you for saying this. i agree, and while it's a basic, seemingly-obvious fact, i feel like it's ignored or denied a lot.

amanda needs to live; her JOB is being an artist. there's nothing to be ashamed of. of course she wants  money; she needs it to live. there's no reason to act like she's some sort of charity performer; it's not as if every free recording she gives away is JUST because she just wants people to have her music. she wants to acquire more fans, and this is a means to do so; more fans means more people may buy merch, and more people may buy tickets for shows. she's choosing to make her money that way rather than by selling the music itself. there is no shame in this, but it bothers me when people put her on a pedestal based on the the idea that she has no intentions related in anyway to monetary gain.

This, exactly.  I've always cringed when I've heard people extolling how "nice" any artist is for doing "extra" "free" things for their fans--- it's fanbase development.  Not saying that the artists involved don't ENJOY doing those things, but they aren't charitable acts either, and any artist that neglects that part of the job is going to have a much harder time of earning a living in this day and age.

[Mockery]

she could care less about the money.

lol k.

from what I can see,
money is a tool for amanda.
necessary to live life,
and get her art done,
but not an end in itself

she also does well,
at doing alot with little money:
more with less

I never said she doesn't need money. I'm just saying that main reason for being a singer/performer is because she loves it.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

she could care less about the money.

lol k.

from what I can see,
money is a tool for amanda.
necessary to live life,
and get her art done,
but not an end in itself

she also does well,
at doing alot with little money:
more with less

I never said she doesn't need money.

nobody said that you did. you said that it wasn't important to her, and that is what was discussed.

[Mockery]

she could care less about the money.

lol k.

from what I can see,
money is a tool for amanda.
necessary to live life,
and get her art done,
but not an end in itself

she also does well,
at doing alot with little money:
more with less

I never said she doesn't need money.

nobody said that you did. you said that it wasn't important to her, and that is what was discussed.

The music is more important to her.

[The Angel Raliel]

the mad world travelling, doing stuff and not stopping long enough to lose interest is what is important (possibly) the money, fans, music, performance art, etc are incidental!

this is possibly written in another colour

[Musings]

Amanda needs money to live?  I thought she existed on 750 ml bottles of fan love?


I would rather not comment on Amanda's psyche.  Why she does things is up to her, her loved ones, and her psychologists or therapists to figure out.  What she does is all I know.

[Cheddars Cousin]

Well...she don't live on government cheese!

[CeeGBee]

Well...she don't live on government cheese!

Are you sure of that?   

[yosmark]

... 750 ml bottles of fan love?

Me too, I thought she with the power of love:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/NMph943tsw" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/NMph943tsw</a>

 

[Mockery]

Amanda needs money to live?  I thought she existed on 750 ml bottles of fan love

Love does make the world go round.

[imaginary friend]

Amanda needs money to live?  I thought she existed on 750 ml bottles of fan love

Love does make the world go round.

yeah, but you need $$$ every time you have to make a stop.

#@!

[Cheddars Cousin]

Amanda needs money to live?  I thought she existed on 750 ml bottles of fan love

Love does Fat bottomed girls make the {rockin']world go round.

Fixed!

[Agonistes]

Amanda needs money to live?  I thought she existed on 750 ml bottles of fan love

Love does Fat bottomed girls make the {rockin']world go round.

Fixed!

cheddar i adore you.  cmere and let me shred you onto my taters.

[CeeGBee]

Amanda needs money to live?  I thought she existed on 750 ml bottles of fan love

Love does Fat bottomed girls make the {rockin']world go round.

Fixed!

cheddar i adore you.  cmere and let me shred you onto my taters.

Hey!  This is NOT Anarchy, or even the innuendo thread...  Keep it clean.   

[Agonistes]

Amanda needs money to live?  I thought she existed on 750 ml bottles of fan love

Love does Fat bottomed girls make the {rockin']world go round.

Fixed!

cheddar i adore you.  cmere and let me shred you onto my taters.

Hey!  This is NOT Anarchy, or even the innuendo thread...  Keep it clean.   

i'll quit swooning when cheddar quits being soooooo sexy.

[Cheddars Cousin]

[vtraddict]

I was lucky enough to meet Amanda multiple times during her last Australian tour. I went to two of the backyard gigs she did (flying interstate for one night to attend the second one) and can vouch for the fact that she spent a hell of a lot of time talking to the fans that were at both. If anything, she seemed more interested in talking to people than she was in playing. I got the chance to have a couple of one-on-one conversations with Amanda, and she took a real interest in some plans I have for a future artistic endeavour - making a point of introducing me to another fan who was working in the same area and making sure I got his card in case I ever needed help. That happened at the second backyard gig - over a month and probably several thousand meet&greets after the first conversation, btw.

I was also happily invited out to dinner after one of Amanda's Ninja gigs with her, Kim Boekbinder, Tom Dickins, Eric and a couple of other friends of theirs. I felt amazingly lucky to be there, and I don't imagine too many other musicians would have done it. I can assure you that the conversation around the dinner table was not about money. They were all interested in talking about music, touring, creating art in various forms, plans for the future and (a LOT) about their fans and particularly about how amazing and lovely their fans are. Many fans were mentioned by name, too.

I wouldn't consider myself to be a friend of Amanda's, and I am very aware that my experience was far from the typical fan experience, but I feel like I got a pretty good look at the way she thinks and behaves. I feel like I was given a great gift...

Now, having said all of that - I definitely don't like everything that Amanda says & does. There are some AFP songs and DD songs that I don't particularly like. There are some that I love, and one in particular that literally saved me from a breakdown about a year ago (that one inspired me to change my life so strongly that I have the ink to prove it). Some stuff on Twitter and the blog interests me, some doesn't.

[lentower]

^ what vtraddict saids squares with my experiences with amanda and brian

Well...she don't live on government cheese!

does amanda even like cheese?

and if she does:
does amand even like cheddar?

[Mockery]

Now, having said all of that - I definitely don't like everything that Amanda says & does. There are some AFP songs and DD songs that I don't particularly like. There are some that I love, and one in particular that literally saved me from a breakdown about a year ago (that one inspired me to change my life so strongly that I have the ink to prove it). Some stuff on Twitter and the blog interests me, some doesn't.

I don't agree with her always but I still admire her vision and passion.

[Cheddars Cousin]

^ what vtraddict saids squares with my experiences with amanda and brian

Well...she don't live on government cheese!

does amanda even like cheese?

and if she does:
does amand even like cheddar?

Oh...she loves the Cheddar...

[The Angel Raliel]

I always thought she had a feta fetish

[JeAxra]

I see what Camille was trying to do with this thread and I kind of applaud her for opening up this discussion.  And I honestly disagree with the statements that she did it for attention.

Since this turned out to be so damn long feel free to skip the stuff in italics, though the entire thing is relevant to the discussion and what I’m trying to say.

Being a fan since the days of The Dresden Dolls I have felt similar emotions—to an extent at least.  When the dolls went their “hiatus” and AFP started doing things all solo work I felt l’d lost something really fantastic, and I did. I’d only just heard of them in mid to late 2005 so it was all so new to me, but it was an instant love and connection I hadn’t really felt in such a way before.  I didn’t have the means to find out and get everything they’d done so far and got fucked out of seeing them live every time they came to Arizona. (The first time I was actually getting ready for the show when I found out I wouldn’t be able to go, which is a whole other very long story.) But through the songs that I held closer to my heart than ANYTHING at that time Punk Rock Cabaret was , and still is, a very big part me. It was something important that I lost almost before I even got a chance to really feel it (Which is why I was so damn emotional at the NYC reunion show.)

I didn’t “hate” Amanda’s solo work—as a matter of fact I did like it—but I was disappointed that it didn’t resemble the dolls the way I wanted it to. It just wasn’t the same. It actually took a lot of denial and time to accept that The Dresden Dolls were over; as much as I have, because I still feel sad about it from time to time in way. I started reading her very personal blogs and loving her more and more as a person, though her new music didn’t have the same power. Eventually the solo work, along with Amanda herself, gained a love and a place in my heart of its own, separate from dolls love. I was so amazed by how connected she was and how much of herself and love she gave to her fans.

The point is I have also been a disappointed fan questioning my commitment.

Finally my stars had aligned and in 2009 I got to see her with The Nervous Cabaret in Tennessee. It was actually the first concert I’d ever been to. I will admit I did wish she was still with Brian then. I’d entered a whole new world when I walked into that venue; part of a world that I longed to feel for four years. This community was home. When she popped out of the curtains before the show started I started fucking crying as soon as I saw her. It surprised the hell out of me (the crying) and hit me as suddenly as a fucking freight train. It was real this time; I didn’t get it taken from me like the times when I was gonna see the dolls before. Finally. It wasn’t the dolls, but it was Amanda, it was beautiful and I enjoyed every fucking second of it. I had no money to buy merch—I’d spent all of my money on a ticket and cigarettes—but Beth so kindly gave me a pin. That simple gesture meant so much to me as silly as that may sound (thanks, Beth!)

After signing for everyone at the damn show she came outside with her uke and played creep for the little audience that decided to wait around. I was shaking so badly. Afterwards she did pictures and talked with us for a while. When it was my turn I had so many things to say, but couldn’t come out with a single thing. She took my hands, stood very close and stared into my eyes.  It was calming and I felt loved, understood and cared about. I told her it was my first ever concert it was and how happy I was to finally get a chance to see her and she was so excited to hear that. We hugged, kissed & shared more hand holding and eye-contact.

I know this has been very long, detailed and rambling, but the point is there isn’t fucking artist I’ve seen that is so dedicated, personal, loving and connected to their fans. She gives so much to us and it really does make me mad when people say “yeah, but she promised us this and never delivered!” You should be fucking grateful that she’s given you so much. Not liking her recent stuff is one thing, but attacking her for not delivering on something she planned to do, a gift that you did not earn or deserve, is something entirely different. The woman hardly has any time to rest.

THAT being said I fully understand how you feel about the gaining lack of connection. I’ve met her a few times since then & none were as personal or one-on-one as the first time I met her, but the connection is still very much there. That took a second to get past for me as well, but I know that all of that shit is icing. Things are a bit off right now, she’s taking somewhat of a well-deserved break, she doesn’t webcast anymore & the blogs aren’t as frequent or personal, she isn’t giving her entire self to us selfish fans like she used to,but to say that the connection was never fucking there to begin with, even going so far as to say that it was FUCKING FAKED is fucking wrong! (and that’s a whole lot of fucking FUCK!)

Amanda is a fucking person; her own person, who owes you nothing. She can only give so much. She can only bend so many ways.

As far as the community goes, I am sad about it. I wish things were as they were before, but things change. People change, things happen. I don’t dislike her because of it.

As far as her recent work goes, she’s not released an actual Amanda Palmer album since WKAP. Since then she’s done a hell of a fucking lot starting with Endless touring PLUS ninja gigs, webcasts, blogs and an ASSLOAD of other EXTRA things (and got married).

-Evelyn Evelyn was a really wonderful SIDE project.
-The ukulelehead stuff was just a little EP of covers and it was great.
-Then she did Cabaret, which is something I feel so privileged to have seen.
-After that she had a clearly emotional tour with Brian.
-She wanted to go to fucking Australia, so she did. While she was there decided to write a love letter to the fucking continent and because she’s Amanda Fucking Palmer she did so in the form of a SPECIAL album and tour, which was something extra she just wanted to do.
-Then the 8in8 project, which was a fun experiment.

And what’s sad is that’s not even close to everything. Those are just the main things.

You may not like any of those SIDE PROJECTS she did, and that is certainly all well and good. But keep in mind, any other artist would have disappeared maybe did some in-between time touring. Any other artist would not give their music away for free, stick around after a tiring show to sign for and meet everyone, or EVER have frequent random and intimate mini-gigs/get-togethers with their fans in a park. Any other artist would not give us the same love or respect as she has and does. And the best we can manage to do is bitch about the way she's doing it or say it's not enough!? Maybe she didn’t acknowledge you the way you’d hoped or forgot something important she may or may not have promised or isn’t AS present as you’d like, but she’s been working her ass off for us as much as herself. Don’t expect so much.

Like Len said, don’t dismiss her so quickly. Stick around, listen to her next properly done release, because she loves all of us and music evolves naturally with the person making it and those who listen. She's still Amanda.

Also, Len…You make the new stuff sound very promising! And Mass Ave is a kick-ass song!

[The Angel Raliel]

sneak preview of some new stuff last nigh and NO there are no recordings (at least there should not be) intersting and different from anything else so far....

[lentower]

^ yes, the new AFP music is different and interesting.
  it's more from + of amanda,
  than amanda doing covers and side projects.
  i doubt everyone will like it, but that's the fandom.
  but i suspect many who like WKAP and d.dolls music
  will like the new stuff

^^ well said.
  i miss the d.dolls too.
  i came late to them too,
  though i was fortunate that i lived in the same metro area
  as they were at the time.
  (b has deserted, and amanda keeps "threatening" to ; - )
  but we have a lot of interesting and different
  music and projects from both a+b
  that we wouldn't have had otherwise.
  and i don't think amanda has many more
  d.dolls songs in her to write
  (i hope i'm wrong, but ...)

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

I find it quite funny and sad when people act like Amanda is horrrrrriiiiiibbbbllllle because she didn't release something or do something she said she'd do. Have you already paid for this product that Amanda hasn't released but hinted at? No? Not really your problem then, is it?
(and I'm sure someone is going to come in and be like 'BUT THERE ARE LOADZ OF PPL WHO HAVEN'T GOT THEIR MERCH THAT THEY PAID FOR OMMMGGGGGG U R WRONG.' ...No. Similar point, different subject entirely and you know exactly what I mean)

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

I find it quite funny and sad when people act like Amanda is horrrrrriiiiiibbbbllllle because she didn't release something or do something she said she'd do. Have you already paid for this product that Amanda hasn't released but hinted at? No? Not really your problem then, is it?
(and I'm sure someone is going to come in and be like 'BUT THERE ARE LOADZ OF PPL WHO HAVEN'T GOT THEIR MERCH THAT THEY PAID FOR OMMMGGGGGG U R WRONG.' ...No. Similar point, different subject entirely and you know exactly what I mean)

money is not the only thing that is spent or devoted on/to amanda, and it's naive to think otherwise. if there are a large number of people feeling as if amanda has broken promises to them, then you're right, it's not their problem; it's amanda's.

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

I do understand the concept of disappointment, but she isn't obligated to fulfill any of your desires unless you've made some kind of deal or money has changed hands.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

amanda's not obligated to do anything. she and her fans never fail to make this clear. she can deal with a few disappointed fans, but when the number of disappointed fans grows to a certain number it's probably going to have an effect on her money.

the point of this thread was that it sucks that amanda can afford to have her older fans who supported her original art which allowed her to make the new art be the disappointed ones.

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

People change. Sorry that The Dresden Dolls aren't a thing now. You're starting to repeat yourself, so while I stand by what I said in the first place, I'm not going to continue this discussion with you. I do get what you mean and to a point, I agree, but I just think it needs to be dropped.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

People change. Sorry that The Dresden Dolls aren't a thing now. You're starting to repeat yourself, so while I stand by what I said in the first place, I'm not going to continue this discussion with you. I do get what you mean and to a point, I agree, but I just think it needs to be dropped.

if me repeating myself is an adequate response to someone's post then i'm not the one initiating the continuation of a dead discussion. have fun on the high road though.

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

Uh, no, I just don't feel like continuing a discussion where I can find out the next thing the other person is going to say just by clicking back a few pages. I do get it, but I don't really want to talk to you about it, because you keep saying the same thing over and over.

[The Angel Raliel]

If one is given for free everyday a flower by the person in the coffee shop one will feel put out when they no longer get the flower despite never asking for it or being charged for it...sad

[Pope Totalfrog]

If one is given for free everyday a flower by the person in the coffee shop one will feel put out when they no longer get the flower despite never asking for it or being charged for it...sad

I think you just summed this thread up nicely.

Look people, things change. Music changes. Styles change. Life is fluid. You can flow along with it or you can go in your own direction. There is no point being hurt by change. It is inevitable.

[Kerr1ck]

I wonder if photographers hear things like "YOU SHOULD DO MORE BLUE ONES, THOSE WERE BETTER"

[Pope Totalfrog]

I wonder if photographers hear things like "YOU SHOULD DO MORE BLUE ONES, THOSE WERE BETTER"

Blue as in blue or blue as in blue ?

[lentower]

---

(and I'm sure someone is going to come in and be like 'BUT THERE ARE LOADZ OF PPL WHO HAVEN'T GOT THEIR MERCH THAT THEY PAID FOR OMMMGGGGGG U R WRONG.' ...No. Similar point, different subject entirely and you know exactly what I mean)

yes, they are different, ...

... but
LOADZ ? ? ?
more than anyone, including team d.dolls,
wants, but there aren't all that many who
have complained her on the box

a tiny% of all those who have mailed ordered merch

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

Dude, I wasn't criticising whoever is dealing with the merch. I don't know anything about that. I was requesting that no one use it as a comeback to what I was saying.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

Uh, no, I just don't feel like continuing a discussion where I can find out the next thing the other person is going to say just by clicking back a few pages. I do get it, but I don't really want to talk to you about it, because you keep saying the same thing over and over.

i'm sorry, but i don't see what your point is. if your only argument is that i've repeated myself and that you therefore feel like you're wasting your time then replying twice doesn't make sense.

and this other thing about the self-entitlement is honestly insulting. i've bought every single album, gone to every show that i could go to, got every song book, and spent hundreds of dollars on other merch. i'm not some cheap fucking bastard demanding free shit, and it's not like that's what i'm used to either. amanda didn't start giving things away until recently.

i'm aware that i've repeated myself and the reason i've done it is because i still feel like my points have, at the core, either been misunderstood or ignored and i don't know what else i can possibly do to make myself more clear.

[lentower]

Dude, I wasn't criticising whoever is dealing with the merch. I don't know anything about that. I was requesting that no one use it as a comeback to what I was saying.

Ah!

then consider my comment directed at people who
make that complaint in THAT way

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

OH, so because I don't feel like talking to you, I should just ignore you when you try to insult me! I forgot that this was Jesseworld and Jesse gets to say whatever he wants to anyone he likes and they can't say a word back.
You've made yourself pretty clear, we all get what you're talking about, but not everyone feels the same. It's called a difference of opinion and I'm pretty sure that if I went back a few pages, I'll find at least one place where you've used that as a defense OR agreed with someone else defending you with it.

Dude, I wasn't criticising whoever is dealing with the merch. I don't know anything about that. I was requesting that no one use it as a comeback to what I was saying.

Ah!

then consider my comment directed at people who
make that complaint in THAT way

Will do.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

OH, so because I don't feel like talking to you, I should just ignore you when you try to insult me! I forgot that this was Jesseworld and Jesse gets to say whatever he wants to anyone he likes and they can't say a word back.
You've made yourself pretty clear, we all get what you're talking about, but not everyone feels the same. It's called a difference of opinion and I'm pretty sure that if I went back a few pages, I'll find at least one place where you've used that as a defense OR agreed with someone else defending you with it.

ok. you're the one who said that you thought it was "quite funny and sad" to be upset about amanda not releasing something. do you really think that isn't insulting? "sorry that the dresden dolls aren't a thing now?" was that really said in the most respectful tone? and it's cool how three times now you've complained about me repeating myself. you said that you don't feel like continuing a discussion with someone who repeats himself because you can go back a few pages and find out what i'm going to say, but you continue to respond, and i don't understand that. you're not just defending yourself against insults, because you keep inserting that fact into your comments. if you really think my ideas are so "funny and sad" then congratulations on lowering yourself to this discussion.

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

Did I say anything directly to you? Did I go 'JESSE, I THINK YOUR FEELINGS ARE FUNNY AND SAD.'?
No, actually, I didn't. I was mostly agreeing with one of the posters just above me so it wasn't really directed at you on any level. At all.

Anyway, fuck it, bored now. You clearly just want to ~~~WIN THE THREAD~~~ and if it will make you feel super special, I'll stop posting right now. To you, that is.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

ty (:

[Musings]

There were insults/passive aggressive statements thrown on both sides, by people I generally respect.

I will say that this is one of the few threads I keep returning to read on the SBx -- and while I do love a dose of drama, I love a higher debate mixed with some humor more.

Not to say that SBx should only serve my entertainment purposes.... but really, it should.

[Mockery]

Can we return to the subject? If Jesse and Mr are going to argue, then you please don't here it on the forums.

[imaginary friend]

Can we return to the subject? If Jesse and Mr are going to argue, then you please don't here it on the forums.

now may be the time to bring this idea forth again: I used to be a member at a now-defunct metal music forum. Knowing the rather volatile leanings of the membership, the admins/mods had a pinned thread called, "Dojo of Death," where any people could take their fight to a whole new level of abusiveness without cluttering up a discussion topic.

Not saying that Jesse and leave Me have taken it anywhere near that far, but it couldn't hurt to have an outlet in case some other people have to go off. We could even have a contest to name it.

#@!

[The Angel Raliel]

as long as it ends up like Kirk battling the Gorn

[Mockery]

People say 'take it to PMs' or whatever on some forums, but I actually like your idea.  It could be entertaining.

And bloody.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

Saying 'k' and 'ty' after lengthy replies is also very high school, maybe you need to grow up a little bit

ok i might  have said k earlier but i think my last ty, while unnecessary, wasn't an innappropriate response lol.

but yes, being cool and alternative is important to me and i care about it almost as much as i care about [putting forth the illusion of me] being correct.

i am pretty high school though. if i'm acting my age then i won't hold it against anyone to treat me like a child for my immature comments.

and thanks for helping bring the thread back to order mockery lol

honestly, i'm sorry if i offended anyone on a personal level. i'm aware that i have a knack for controversy and while i'm not saying i don't enjoy that there are some times, including in this thread, where i legitimately do not intend to cause trouble but it either happens because i've chosen my words poorly or (i think) because, fairly, people automatically read my posts in the context of my general posting style which, yeah, is often argumentative and bellicose. so that's that. i dunno what more to say.

[marie_x]

[The Angel Raliel]

can someone either lock this thread or make it a lot more interesting? bored now...

[marie_x]

You're really good at making people's blood boil, Jesse, and where that may seem cool and alternative, it's just damn annoying. If you enjoy yourself by starting arguments and upsetting people, that is really really sad and I feel sorry for you. Saying 'k' and 'ty' after lengthy replies is also very high school, maybe you need to grow up a little bit. Sometimes you make great points, and you express them intelligently and like an adult, but recently you're acting like a kid. Definitely some things you need to think about before you post.

I respect Jesses views because they are always valid

[marie_x]

Really, I'm sorry that I can't use "I hate Amanda" in a tongue-and-cheek manner in order to catch attention and spark conversation about something I thought deserved to be brought up. Oh well.

[The Angel Raliel]

Camille...t'was pretty obvious that was not  your original intention....you simply clambered back very fast from your original statement because you realised that it was a tad stupid...until you found an ally looking for an argument

[Cheddars Cousin]

I hate all of you!

Don't misunderstand me, now.  When I say that I hate all of you, what I actually mean is that I have never met most of you and therefore, I cannot actually form a valid opinion of you.  It stands to reason that if I did actually get to know you, I would most likely have a positive response toward most of you.  Of course, There are at least a few of you that I could not stand, but no one is really to blame for that.  It's just the law of averages combined with your grating personality.  We all know it could never be my fault.  Then again, there are some others among you with whom I would get along swimmingly.  We would talk about things and laugh, maybe go out for drinks and dinner-= then maybe later to a show.  We would share our dreams and darkest fears with each other and skip through clover arm in arm.  Still, there are others here whom I have met and spent time with.  I can say without reservation, that I do indeed like them very much.

So...yeah...I hate you all!

[Agonistes]

cheddar, i feel you.

i hate my own friends, even the ones who delight me.  i can't think of anyone on my phone list who could call me without an eyeroll on my part.  no one has any idea how to live, and it exasperates the christ out of me.

of course, i am also currently deep in pms.  but i can't think of anytime i willingly surround myself with people.

[The Angel Raliel]

I hate all of you!

Don't misunderstand me, now.  When I say that I hate all of you, what I actually mean is that I have never met most of you and therefore, I cannot actually form a valid opinion of you.  It stands to reason that if I did actually get to know you, I would most likely have a positive response toward most of you.  Of course, There are at least a few of you that I could not stand, but no one is really to blame for that.  It's just the law of averages combined with your grating personality.  We all know it could never be my fault.  Then again, there are some others among you with whom I would get along swimmingly.  We would talk about things and laugh, maybe go out for drinks and dinner-= then maybe later to a show.  We would share our dreams and darkest fears with each other and skip through clover arm in arm.  Still, there are others here whom I have met and spent time with.  I can say without reservation, that I do indeed like them very much.

So...yeah...I hate you all!

I hate cheese...unless it is proper unpateurised cheese obviously...but when cheese became all processed....horrible.....except I like it on burgers and hotdogs......

[The Angel Raliel]

OH SHIT! GOD FORBID I CHANGE MY MIND BASED ON NEW AND DIFFERENT BEHAVIOUR!  Take me to the river and drown me. If you're going to call someone a hypocrite, at least make sure they're being hypocritical first.  I changed my feelings on Jesse's behaviour because his behaviour changed.   

not actually aimed at you....but FUCKS SAKE....get on with it..have a real argument or something everyone!

[marie_x]

Camille...t'was pretty obvious that was not  your original intention....you simply clambered back very fast from your original statement because you realised that it was a tad stupid...until you found an ally looking for an argument

you mean jesse?

[the astronaut]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

[Cheddars Cousin]

'tis a hateful mack.

[Agonistes]

amanda doesnt bring her flowers anymore.

[imaginary friend]

 

#@!

[beth of all trades]

I'm just happy to see that there's an active thread in "General Discussion" again. 

[Pope Totalfrog]

I'm just happy to see that there's an active thread in "General Discussion" again. 

You sound like my Nan when my uncles fight at parties. "well at least they're speaking to each other"...

[beth of all trades]

I'm just happy to see that there's an active thread in "General Discussion" again. 

You sound like my Nan when my uncles fight at parties. "well at least they're speaking to each other"...

LOL. I think I've actually said THAT too. With feuding family, if they're communicating at all, I call it progress.

[The Angel Raliel]

can we rename this thread the pick a fight thread while still keeping the original title as it is so contentious?

[The Angel Raliel]

Oh and marmoset....Stuff you! I will tell anyone I like what to do.....it's up to them to do it or not

[Mockery]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

It's a love hate relationship. Like the world and Brittany Spears.

[slyvia k]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

maybe she got herpes

[marie_x]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

maybe she got herpes

i don't have herpes and you clearly didn't read what the thread is about.
the title was..
oh i give up.

[lentower]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

maybe she got herpes

i don't have herpes and you clearly didn't read what the thread is about.
the title was..
oh i give up.

for those who have never read the post that started this thread,
or have forgotten it ...

There I said it.
Her music sucks now and I can't bear to read any more of the constant obnoxious twitter updates.
She doesn't care about her old fans and she hasn't released any new music that's worth listening to.
Okay.

OKAY ...

... that these are all valid thoughts and feelings for a fan to have

even HATING AMANDA for these recent changes and behaviour

Camille didn't say anyone else had to agree with her,
just that this was where she was about Amanda at the point she started this thread

and quite a few have agreed about all of Camille's points,
that they disliked the same things

so stop dumping on Camille as a person,
and get back to the points she raised,
and any you want to add

[Musings]

I hate cheese.

There, I said it.

I'm fucking lactose intolerant.  And it tastes so good.  More importantly, my girlfriend is way more lactose intolerant than I am.  And loves cheese.  And we live in a small space.

Also, I hate Camille.  Only I don't really, I just feel like that statement will incite insightful (see what I did there) debate and discussion on Camille's personality, her development as an Internet character, and her contributions to this forum.

[Cherry Chesterfield]

For me, things started to go south when Amanda became Amanda Fucking Palmer.  As I understand it, someone introduced her on stage a few years ago by saying "and now.......Amanda FUCKING Palmer!!"  Great.  Totally appropriate.  I remember shouting out "it's Kathleen FUCKING Hanna" in 2004 at a Le Tigre concert.  But adopting it as part of your name is just plain dumb and annoying.  The ukulele doesn't  help, either.  I get that a musician should expand his/her horizons and not do the same things over and over again.  I think what upsets many of the die-hard fans is that Amanda has traded in emotional songs of poetic truths for silly ones.  And with that, she has exchanged her image as a serious musician for a caricature.   That's the image I have in my head when I see the Radiohead cover, and when I see the AFP cover on the most recent mish-mash (because of its psuedo-pop-glitter irony) she seems like nothing but a radio-pop-star wannabe.  Is the glittery AFP (and such things as the Lady Gaga, Madonna and Me "poem") mere irony or is it jealousy?  I can't tell.  Perhaps that is because I am not close enough; I fell off the fandom wagon quite some time ago.  Some of you, I'm sure, have thoughts on this on will express them here in this thread.

[CeeGBee]

I hate cheese.

There, I said it.

I'm fucking lactose intolerant.  And it tastes so good.  More importantly, my girlfriend is way more lactose intolerant than I am.  And loves cheese.  And we live in a small space.

Also, I hate Camille.  Only I don't really, I just feel like that statement will incite insightful (see what I did there) debate and discussion on Camille's personality, her development as an Internet character, and her contributions to this forum.

Now you apologise to Cheese... 

So you don't care for him, that's fine, but "hate"?
This unpleasantness is clearly unwarranted.

[The Angel Raliel]

obviously the hate stems from the lactose intolerance and the desire to have that which is forbidden

[Cheddars Cousin]

It is the festering hate in the pit of your soul that makes living in a small space with your girl so ...unpleasant.  Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.  Learn to love the cheese because of His diversity.  We hate that which we don't understand when we should embrace it instead.

CHEESE is the word...spread the word!

[The Angel Raliel]

oh so your spreadable cheese now? Krafty

[dj50tonhamster]

Hello. Didn't bother reading the entire thread. Haven't really been following much of anything, recently. Still, because the world at large needs more assholes (read: opinions), here's what I have to say.

Why are people so wrapped up in this bullshit? Speaking as somebody who literally, on one level or another, owes his current (and good) life to A&B, I think everybody needs to chill out. It's music. If the music isn't hitting that special spot in your brainpan any longer, fine. Find something else that does. (It's not like music is a scarce commodity, you know.) I did. I haven't really listened to much since WKAP and suspect I'm not missing much. (I fall on the sturm und drang side of the equation, and not the cabaret side.) Doesn't mean I have to bitch about it, at least in a public forum. I've got a thousand other things I could do that are much more productive, interesting and stimulating. Why waste energy whining about something that probably isn't coming back and shouldn't come back unless it's from the heart?

The way I see it, the music scene is changing. Making a living as a musician/artist has never been easy. It's gotten far worse since everybody and their mother now expects music to be free. Amanda has, I suspect, been forced to make hard choices regarding how she wants to proceed. Artists have to experiment a lot more now. Some, like Amanda, are relying a lot more on fan-sourced funding and such, essentially going back to the days of patronage. In that sense, it makes sense (and cents?) to do things like novelty knock-offs. If you're waiting for the "real" tunes to finish baking in your mind's oven, why not record an EP for people from Australia when you go on tour there, especially if you've got love for the country and its people? You have to sell something new when you're on tour. Why not music? Not everybody wants a t-shirt, you know.

Besides, didn't Amanda write most of the first Dolls record when she was fresh out of college? Starving, angry artist and all that? Regardless of how I feel about her current image, I'd be incredibly disappointed if she had made zero progress as a person. People age, change and hopefully find some peace. That makes it a bit harder to spit blood on stage and cry over a bad relationship from many years ago.

When the next "proper" LP comes out, I'll check it out. If it's cool, I'll be happy. If not, I'll move on. Expecting Amanda to be my personal jukebox, pumping out songs I want, is silly. Our paths crossed for awhile, and now they seem to have diverged to some extent. Big deal.

See you all in 2015.

[Tiervexx]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

Yeah, I thought that was funny!

This discussion is actually extremely similar to one I had around 10 years ago.  The first message board I ever posted on was a Slayer forum.  Some of the older fans were really pissed off about Slayer's style evolving over time and seemed to take it as a very personal betrayal...  Like the members of Slayer literally placed knifes in their backs.

Even then I thought it was pretty silly.  I think artists will inevitably get sick of their own work and have to move on to different styles.

I happen to love Amanda's newest album though...  It's clearly a very different style but I think it's really funny.


... oh and also, I will never object to someone having an opinion but I definitely think that you stay respectful to someone when in their own house so to speak.

[Agonistes]

i have a serious question, but i am afraid it is going to come out sounding asshole, and i dont mean for it to.


i'm going to ask it anyway.  what does it mean when one says 'i owe my life/existence/sanity to ______________.'      ?  i've heard a few people say it about amanda, or amanda and brian.  what does it mean?

[imaginary friend]

an elaboration on "inspirational" would be my guess.

#@!

[Musings]

It means different things to different people.  For some people, entire circles of friends were created out of a common love for the DD and the Brigade.  For some photographers and musicians, the DD started their young careers.  For others the early Sbx provided a source of advice and support that couldn't be found anywhere else.  And for me, quite literally, having my first Amanda Palmer concert to look forward to give me a rope to hang on to.  It may seem silly, but the community was much stronger and united, there were a lot more opportunities for a fan to become something more, and I think especially before even I was a fan, it was much more likely that fans also became legit friends and associates of Amanda and Brian.  Still happens - look at Hayley.  But I think as the fandom expanded, while the music and concerts and blogs can still save lives, it is far less likely that Amanda will personally be involved in it.

[The Angel Raliel]

i have a serious question, but i am afraid it is going to come out sounding asshole, and i dont mean for it to.


i'm going to ask it anyway.  what does it mean when one says 'i owe my life/existence/sanity to ______________.'      ?  i've heard a few people say it about amanda, or amanda and brian.  what does it mean?

often it is because the music and the inclusiveness of what the dolls and afp have created has at times had a very profound affect on peoples lives to the point where it has in some cases quite literally saved a life.......I think this sort of thing happens with all sorts of artists at some point......

[Cheddars Cousin]

I love Musings.

[Mockery]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

maybe she got herpes

i don't have herpes and you clearly didn't read what the thread is about.
the title was..
oh i give up.

They were joking.

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

maybe she got herpes

i don't have herpes and you clearly didn't read what the thread is about.
the title was..
oh i give up.

They were joking.

? how can you tell??

[Pope Totalfrog]

can i just ask why the person who started this thread has an avatar of amanda macking with her??

maybe she got herpes

i don't have herpes and you clearly didn't read what the thread is about.
the title was..
oh i give up.

They were joking.

? how can you tell??

Because herpes is funny.

[imaginary friend]

indeed:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/MnJrenTkGGE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/MnJrenTkGGE</a>

 

#@!

[Annebelle.]

[lentower]

hmm,
it's likely there have been times years ago that

Amanda's hated herself ...

[Musings]

Way to make this thread negative, Len. 

[lentower]

Way to make this thread negative, Len.  

negative?

dealing with self-hate is important

Amanda, if she has ever self-hated, has done an
unusual,
remark-able,
extra-ordinary
job of dealing with it

[Cheddars Cousin]

Amanda hates me.

[CeeGBee]

Amanda hates me.

It's not that she hates you, she simply prefers more sophisticated cheeses.
You mustn't let such snobbery get to you - After all, who's on more burgers,
more macaroni side-dishes, more party trays, every single [ba-dum cha!] day?

Camembert? Stilton? Brie? ...or you? 

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

hmm,
it's likely there have been times years ago that

Amanda's hated herself ...

that's why her music didn't suck

[lentower]

Amanda hates me.

no,
she loves you so much,
she's letting others enjoy you!

after all,
the supply of cheddar is limited

[Musings]

I should have written that in green, but let me respond.

Self-hate on its own is negative, dealing with it is positive.  Difference there.

Also, I caught the love, Cheddar.  If only you stayed away from my gf. :-)

[Agonistes]

cheddar often visits my girlfriend, and brings potatoes.  she thinks he's really grate.

[imaginary friend]

it's definitely mutual - she makes him melt.

#@!

[Mockery]

Amanda hates me.

It's not that she hates you, she simply prefers more sophisticated cheeses.
You mustn't let such snobbery get to you - After all, who's on more burgers,
more macaroni side-dishes, more party trays, every single [ba-dum cha!] day?

Camembert? Stilton? Brie? ...or you? 

Sorry, couldn't help it.

[yosmark]

Amanda hates my music!

[Musings]

She doesn't hate your music, yosmark, she just hates you because you're a, you know....



sexy programmer (you still program things, no?).

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

does anyone else remember her blog about how when people would give her their demos she would bring them home to her appartment and "fling" them across the room?

[lentower]

does anyone else remember her blog about how when people would give her their demos she would bring them home to her appartment and "fling" them across the room?

wasn't she 'flinging' them onto a pile of such demos?
and hasn't she written in other blogs of listening to demos
from that pile?

short of having a very trusted group of PAs going through all the demos
to select ones for Amanda to listen to.
it sounds like a 'fair' and 'reasonable' way of dealing with
them all

[BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!]

i'm not sure, but i thought it wasn't just demos. i very well could be wrong though.

[Savannah]

i'm not sure, but i thought it wasn't just demos. i very well could be wrong though.

many musicians do it these days. and i can understand them. i remember Linda Perry writing such kind of a status on her FB page. they need to produce something new and original, and listening to zillionss of demos i think it's hard not to get inspired.

[yosmark]

yosmark

• The Powa. The Powa.
• Hero Member
•