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imaginary friend

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adventures in book banning
« on: August 05, 2011, 07:27:59 PM »

hopefully, this won't become an eighty-page thread any time soon; anyway, here's story #1:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44036337/ns/today-books/t/vonnegut-library-offers-banned-book-students/?GT1=43001#.Tjx7GWHayus

#@!

Mockery

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 08:06:45 PM »

Madeline E'Lengle said that if you get banned, that means you're doing something right!

This is going to be such a fun thread.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2011, 03:04:24 PM »

Personally I'm mostly alarmed by the bit about "Biblical morality and truth" and about the "false conceptions" about American history. Most of me can't actually believe that schools in America really do chat that bollocks - it's like a bad sci-fi film or something.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2011, 03:05:34 PM »

we're filled to bursting with idiocy over here.  :usa2:

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2011, 03:15:03 PM »

we're filled to bursting with idiocy over here.  :usa2:

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Is that why y'all are so fat? KABLAM!!!
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2011, 05:19:35 PM »

we're filled to bursting with idiocy over here.  :usa2:

#@!

Is that why y'all are so fat? KABLAM!!!
Pretty much.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2011, 04:01:48 PM »

I have truely mixed feelings on this... Part of me hates that a book would be banned... But then another bit of me knows how many more people will actually be interested in reading the thing now that they've banned it... Probably taking the time to actually read it (and maybe even enjoy it) rather than half reading it and wiki-ing the rest.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2011, 06:44:14 AM »

I have truely mixed feelings on this... Part of me hates that a book would be banned... But then another bit of me knows how many more people will actually be interested in reading the thing now that they've banned it... Probably taking the time to actually read it (and maybe even enjoy it) rather than half reading it and wiki-ing the rest.

when books use to be
'Banned in Boston'
many publishers actively tried to,
by cover arts, and selected quotes

was good for sales
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 08:04:16 AM »

books should never be banned no matter how offensive the material or misguided the content.....we end up down the path of government approved literature being the only choices... I do not trust any government body deciding what i am allowed to think....
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 02:22:43 PM »

books should never be banned no matter how offensive the material or misguided the content.....we end up down the path of government approved literature being the only choices... I do not trust any government body deciding what i am allowed to think....
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

I agree with everything Neil says :)
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2011, 04:07:36 PM »

books should never be banned no matter how offensive the material or misguided the content.....we end up down the path of government approved literature being the only choices... I do not trust any government body deciding what i am allowed to think....
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html
I agree with everything Neil says :)
I agree with what Neil and Indja say here
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 09:56:34 AM »

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2011, 12:51:43 PM »

One thing i don't get about the whole banning thing. They go and ban Wrinkle in Time for promoting Christianity and then they ban Harry Potter for promoting witchcraft. Either one is promoting anything except proper English. And can they prove that they promote anything?
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2011, 06:25:26 PM »

One thing i don't get about the whole banning thing. They go and ban Wrinkle in Time for promoting Christianity and then they ban Harry Potter for promoting witchcraft. Either one is promoting anything except proper English. And can they prove that they promote anything?

different groups, schools, etc ban different books for different reasons.  'huckleberry finn' is a good example of a book that was banned simply because the racial realities freaked someone out.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2011, 11:56:01 AM »

One thing i don't get about the whole banning thing. They go and ban Wrinkle in Time for promoting Christianity and then they ban Harry Potter for promoting witchcraft. Either one is promoting anything except proper English. And can they prove that they promote anything?

different groups, schools, etc ban different books for different reasons.  'huckleberry finn' is a good example of a book that was banned simply because the racial realities freaked someone out.

But that teaches kids about history! In order for people to learn from mistakes, they must learn about those mistakes made! Isn't that what people are suppose to in school? Last time i checked kids were suppose to learn!
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2011, 01:22:23 PM »

One thing i don't get about the whole banning thing. They go and ban Wrinkle in Time for promoting Christianity and then they ban Harry Potter for promoting witchcraft. Either one is promoting anything except proper English. And can they prove that they promote anything?

different groups, schools, etc ban different books for different reasons.  'huckleberry finn' is a good example of a book that was banned simply because the racial realities freaked someone out.

But that teaches kids about history! In order for people to learn from mistakes, they must learn about those mistakes made! Isn't that what people are suppose to in school? Last time i checked kids were suppose to learn!

no, clearly it is far more important to teach kids that if anything is scary or threatening they can just make it go away by denying that it ever happened.
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The Angel Raliel

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2011, 04:19:03 AM »

oh indeed..during the late 80s and 90s alot of fairytales were rewritten in the UK to be politically correct and everything had to be positive, with no violence or death....lots of screwed up parenting ensued
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2011, 02:00:57 PM »

One thing i don't get about the whole banning thing. They go and ban Wrinkle in Time for promoting Christianity and then they ban Harry Potter for promoting witchcraft. Either one is promoting anything except proper English. And can they prove that they promote anything?

different groups, schools, etc ban different books for different reasons.  'huckleberry finn' is a good example of a book that was banned simply because the racial realities freaked someone out.

But that teaches kids about history! In order for people to learn from mistakes, they must learn about those mistakes made! Isn't that what people are suppose to in school? Last time i checked kids were suppose to learn!

no, clearly it is far more important to teach kids that if anything is scary or threatening they can just make it go away by denying that it ever happened.

Don't you just love the school system?
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2011, 04:28:39 PM »

oh indeed..during the late 80s and 90s alot of fairytales were rewritten in the UK to be politically correct and everything had to be positive, with no violence or death....lots of screwed up parenting ensued
I have a copy of this:

around here somewhere.....
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2011, 05:50:01 PM »

oh indeed..during the late 80s and 90s alot of fairytales were rewritten in the UK to be politically correct and everything had to be positive, with no violence or death....lots of screwed up parenting ensued
They almost ruined Enid Blyton for me. Luckily I have a contraband stash of 1950's Enid Blyton books. They will have to wrestle them from my cold, dead hands.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2011, 04:53:00 AM »

speaking of Enid Blyton did you get to see the wonderful drama about her?
it starred helena Bonkham Carter as Enid....
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2011, 06:19:37 AM »

speaking of Enid Blyton did you get to see the wonderful drama about her?
it starred helena Bonkham Carter as Enid....

I keep meaning to see it. It looks interesting.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2011, 12:52:19 PM »

oh indeed..during the late 80s and 90s alot of fairytales were rewritten in the UK to be politically correct and everything had to be positive, with no violence or death....lots of screwed up parenting ensued
I have a copy of this:

around here somewhere.....
Looks interesting.

When I get a book published, I'm going to see how many time it gets banned.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2011, 07:36:24 AM »

I had an idea for a scifi novel where, in the future, to stop overpopulation, everyone is conditioned to only get sexual desire from specific artificial abstract structures.....the plot involves alot of odd porn and the renegade biosexual acts of a small group and their hunting down by the authorities
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2011, 07:53:56 AM »

I had an idea for a scifi novel where, in the future, to stop overpopulation, everyone is conditioned to only get sexual desire from specific artificial abstract structures.....the plot involves alot of odd porn and the renegade biosexual acts of a small group and their hunting down by the authorities

been done.

several times.

but i suspect your's would be an excellent
addition to the genre
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2011, 02:27:41 PM »

Quick question: have the Twilight books been banned?

I'm wondering because I would think it be hypocritical of the school system to ban Harry Potter and then allow the badly written, smut fest that is Twilight.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2011, 03:00:18 PM »

oh, im sure somebody's banned it.  isn't r.l. stine banned too?  i'm sure no children's book exists that hasnt been banned at one time or another.


not that twilight's a children's book.  but i'm pretty sure paul zindel's on the list, too.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2011, 10:11:03 AM »

Either way, I still don't get it. Children love to be entertained and books can be entertaining and educational but the schools refuse to let kids know about the bad stuff in life because they want everything to be rainbows and sunshine. New flash teachers, that's not how the world works and kids need to learn this sooner or later.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2011, 11:05:56 AM »

umm, yeah...it's not the teachers who drive this kind of nonsense.

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2011, 01:10:50 PM »

umm, yeah...it's not the teachers who drive this kind of nonsense.

#@!

yeah, it's mainly school boards under pressure from a few rabid parents.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2011, 01:49:07 PM »

umm, yeah...it's not the teachers who drive this kind of nonsense.

#@!

yeah, it's mainly school boards under pressure from a few rabid parents.

Still, the teachers could do something by pushing their students to fight against the man.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2011, 02:06:17 PM »

the parents have to fight that battle.

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2011, 04:16:10 PM »

umm, yeah...it's not the teachers who drive this kind of nonsense.

#@!

yeah, it's mainly school boards under pressure from a few rabid parents.

Still, the teachers could do something by pushing their students to fight against the man.

they can't because their motivation is towards keeping their jobs.  teachers opposing the school system has never worked out well for the teachers involved.  the bad guy in this scenario is usually the parents.  schools would run a hell of a lot more easily without parental involvement.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2011, 04:59:26 AM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2011, 09:31:40 AM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)

over here we have more and more parents opting for home-schooling, which is somehow worse.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2011, 01:17:54 PM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)

over here we have more and more parents opting for home-schooling, which is somehow worse.

How is that worse? When you home school, you can give your child the help the need instead of forcing them to go to fast when they don't understand something.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2011, 02:55:22 PM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)

over here we have more and more parents opting for home-schooling, which is somehow worse.

How is that worse? When you home school, you can give your child the help the need instead of forcing them to go to fast when they don't understand something.

ideally it should, yes, but parents aren't educated nor trained to teach, and teachers are.  not to mention many parents aren't motivated, either.  the main complaint i have read about home schooling is that it can often be an overprotective measure that produces kids with little to no actual education.  plus, it impairs kids socially to the point of many of them not being able to be functioning adults when the time comes.  every home-schooling situation i have ever run across seems at the very least to produce very immature and non-independent kids.

i'm not saying it isn't probably a good idea in the case of learning impaired or special needs kids, but as an alternative to public education it's destructive to the system; it is far more desirable to see parents working with the school system to improve it.

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2011, 04:32:17 PM »

Really small because it's not related to the thread topic.

I was home educated and so were my brothers. I had to leave school because I was being bullied and threatened every day. For being blonde.
As home educated children, we attended social groups for home-ed children and most of the home educated kids I've met have been smarter than the kids I've known from conventional schooling (I knew a kid who had the qualifications you study for when you're 15 or 16 or something at the age of 10 and my brother recently started going to school for a second attempt at making it work at a fancy academy and was almost immediately bumped up several years in several topics. When I went back to school at the age of 13, I had a university reading level).
Because we all got to spend time with people of all ages, there wasn't as many of those scared little kids who go to their friends houses and practically hide under the bed as soon as the friend's parents walk in. We could all actually communicate with people both older and younger than us. And in these social groups, with the girls, there was the regular sort of bitchiness that you get when you put a group of girls together but there wasn't actually any bullying or anything because we were taught in an environment where the person caring for you can deal with your problems according to your personality and not the rule book and we actually had ways of sorting ourselves out.
I went to school for about 2 years when I was 13 and because my brothers are younger than me, they started their educations in school. The teachers complained about how they were shy, how my brother only liked to hang around with the girls and they thought he was being awkward and weird and they didn't catch on to reading or writing. So after about a year, my mum took them back out of school.

Guess who was reading and writing as if they'd been doing it for years within 3 months of leaving school. Guess who suddenly had a great social life and was rarely even in the house anymore.
My brothers, who went from being taught by people who didn't know or trust them to being taught by people who cared for them and knew exactly where they were in terms of all of these things.

On the other hand, I've also met families that are hardcore Christians and even have Christian math books and use home education as a way to control what their kids are exposed to and that is very bad, but that isn't everyone.

I'm not saying that it works for everyone or that every home educational system created by parents is brilliant, but some kids really and truly thrive better in that particular environment than in school. I do think that some kids need the school environment, but you seem to disagree entirely with it and I can assure you that it's nowhere near as destructive as you seem to think.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2011, 07:53:58 PM »

^It depends on the kids and the parents. If the parents are keeping their kids home to teach them that dinosaurs weren't real or that the earth is only a few thousand years old then that isn't right. These kids would be better off at school learning things that would help them in the real world.

If they are doing it because their child responds better to learning at home then it is definitely the right thing to do. Especially when they encourage their kids to join other home educated children for social activities.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2011, 11:43:17 PM »

Really small because it's not related to the thread topic.

I was home educated and so were my brothers. I had to leave school because I was being bullied and threatened every day. For being blonde.
As home educated children, we attended social groups for home-ed children and most of the home educated kids I've met have been smarter than the kids I've known from conventional schooling (I knew a kid who had the qualifications you study for when you're 15 or 16 or something at the age of 10 and my brother recently started going to school for a second attempt at making it work at a fancy academy and was almost immediately bumped up several years in several topics. When I went back to school at the age of 13, I had a university reading level).
Because we all got to spend time with people of all ages, there wasn't as many of those scared little kids who go to their friends houses and practically hide under the bed as soon as the friend's parents walk in. We could all actually communicate with people both older and younger than us. And in these social groups, with the girls, there was the regular sort of bitchiness that you get when you put a group of girls together but there wasn't actually any bullying or anything because we were taught in an environment where the person caring for you can deal with your problems according to your personality and not the rule book and we actually had ways of sorting ourselves out.
I went to school for about 2 years when I was 13 and because my brothers are younger than me, they started their educations in school. The teachers complained about how they were shy, how my brother only liked to hang around with the girls and they thought he was being awkward and weird and they didn't catch on to reading or writing. So after about a year, my mum took them back out of school.

Guess who was reading and writing as if they'd been doing it for years within 3 months of leaving school. Guess who suddenly had a great social life and was rarely even in the house anymore.
My brothers, who went from being taught by people who didn't know or trust them to being taught by people who cared for them and knew exactly where they were in terms of all of these things.

On the other hand, I've also met families that are hardcore Christians and even have Christian math books and use home education as a way to control what their kids are exposed to and that is very bad, but that isn't everyone.

I'm not saying that it works for everyone or that every home educational system created by parents is brilliant, but some kids really and truly thrive better in that particular environment than in school. I do think that some kids need the school environment, but you seem to disagree entirely with it and I can assure you that it's nowhere near as destructive as you seem to think.


i should be clear that i'm not referring to the positive-result families.  i myself was home schooled for two years in grammar school.  i'm referring specifically to a large home-school trend in my area that's basically one step removed from the massive high school dropout rate anyway.  and the overly religious sorts as well.

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2011, 05:18:53 PM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)

over here we have more and more parents opting for home-schooling, which is somehow worse.

How is that worse? When you home school, you can give your child the help the need instead of forcing them to go to fast when they don't understand something.

ideally it should, yes, but parents aren't educated nor trained to teach, and teachers are.  not to mention many parents aren't motivated, either.  the main complaint i have read about home schooling is that it can often be an overprotective measure that produces kids with little to no actual education.  plus, it impairs kids socially to the point of many of them not being able to be functioning adults when the time comes.  every home-schooling situation i have ever run across seems at the very least to produce very immature and non-independent kids.

i'm not saying it isn't probably a good idea in the case of learning impaired or special needs kids, but as an alternative to public education it's destructive to the system; it is far more desirable to see parents working with the school system to improve it.



I have to disagree. My sister home schooled her kids and she was so dedicated and motivated to teach her children. They did fantastic! I can see what you're saying about needing to be educated in the skills of teaching but I think that being a parent can help you be a teacher because you always are teaching your kids.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2011, 06:23:22 PM »

i'd honestly like to see a study of success rates vs unsuccessful home schooling.  i don't have a problem with a serious home school approach, as i have said, but i do have a problem with just anyone thinking they can do it.  then again, i have a problem with just anyone being able to have kids, also.

so you can see where my perspective is with that.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2011, 11:42:28 AM »

Totally. I get where you're coming from.

This is great! We had a successful discussion!
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2011, 11:45:47 AM »

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2011, 11:05:48 PM »

This is yet another reason why i want to home school my kids.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2011, 09:36:46 AM »

My library did Banned Book event this week. They set up a reading room in the lobby and had people sit and read banned books as if on exhibit. I participated, reading a bit of The Sandman and Fahrenheit 451. My daughter read Harry Potter. ANYWAY, they also set up a bookcase of banned books from their collection. There was very little left yesterday, because so many people had taken them. The librarian told me that when a book is challenged somewhere, they have to order extra copies because people will flood in to read it. Brave New World was in the top 10 banned books in 2010. 80 years old and still offensive!
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2011, 12:23:08 PM »

My library did Banned Book event this week. They set up a reading room in the lobby and had people sit and read banned books as if on exhibit. I participated, reading a bit of The Sandman and Fahrenheit 451. My daughter read Harry Potter. ANYWAY, they also set up a bookcase of banned books from their collection. There was very little left yesterday, because so many people had taken them. The librarian told me that when a book is challenged somewhere, they have to order extra copies because people will flood in to read it. Brave New World was in the top 10 banned books in 2010. 80 years old and still offensive!
That library is officially awesome!
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2012, 11:27:23 AM »

Brevard County (Florida) libraries have banned Fifty Shades of Grey:      http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/47336255#.T6k3xVKD_i4

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2012, 12:54:03 AM »

http://www.ala.org/advocacy/banned/frequentlychallenged/challengedclassics/reasonsbanned
Kinda surprised to see most of the challenges against "To Kill A Mockingbird" come from
the "North", even Canada...
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2012, 10:49:33 AM »

I'm pretty sure that book bannings/burnings are the absolute most ridiculous things in the world... or at least in the top 5.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2012, 08:37:50 PM »

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