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Author Topic: adventures in book banning  (Read 10004 times)

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Mockery

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2011, 01:49:07 PM »

umm, yeah...it's not the teachers who drive this kind of nonsense.

#@!

yeah, it's mainly school boards under pressure from a few rabid parents.

Still, the teachers could do something by pushing their students to fight against the man.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2011, 02:06:17 PM »

the parents have to fight that battle.

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2011, 04:16:10 PM »

umm, yeah...it's not the teachers who drive this kind of nonsense.

#@!

yeah, it's mainly school boards under pressure from a few rabid parents.

Still, the teachers could do something by pushing their students to fight against the man.

they can't because their motivation is towards keeping their jobs.  teachers opposing the school system has never worked out well for the teachers involved.  the bad guy in this scenario is usually the parents.  schools would run a hell of a lot more easily without parental involvement.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2011, 04:59:26 AM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2011, 09:31:40 AM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)

over here we have more and more parents opting for home-schooling, which is somehow worse.
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Mockery

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2011, 01:17:54 PM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)

over here we have more and more parents opting for home-schooling, which is somehow worse.

How is that worse? When you home school, you can give your child the help the need instead of forcing them to go to fast when they don't understand something.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2011, 02:55:22 PM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)

over here we have more and more parents opting for home-schooling, which is somehow worse.

How is that worse? When you home school, you can give your child the help the need instead of forcing them to go to fast when they don't understand something.

ideally it should, yes, but parents aren't educated nor trained to teach, and teachers are.  not to mention many parents aren't motivated, either.  the main complaint i have read about home schooling is that it can often be an overprotective measure that produces kids with little to no actual education.  plus, it impairs kids socially to the point of many of them not being able to be functioning adults when the time comes.  every home-schooling situation i have ever run across seems at the very least to produce very immature and non-independent kids.

i'm not saying it isn't probably a good idea in the case of learning impaired or special needs kids, but as an alternative to public education it's destructive to the system; it is far more desirable to see parents working with the school system to improve it.

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2011, 04:32:17 PM »

Really small because it's not related to the thread topic.

I was home educated and so were my brothers. I had to leave school because I was being bullied and threatened every day. For being blonde.
As home educated children, we attended social groups for home-ed children and most of the home educated kids I've met have been smarter than the kids I've known from conventional schooling (I knew a kid who had the qualifications you study for when you're 15 or 16 or something at the age of 10 and my brother recently started going to school for a second attempt at making it work at a fancy academy and was almost immediately bumped up several years in several topics. When I went back to school at the age of 13, I had a university reading level).
Because we all got to spend time with people of all ages, there wasn't as many of those scared little kids who go to their friends houses and practically hide under the bed as soon as the friend's parents walk in. We could all actually communicate with people both older and younger than us. And in these social groups, with the girls, there was the regular sort of bitchiness that you get when you put a group of girls together but there wasn't actually any bullying or anything because we were taught in an environment where the person caring for you can deal with your problems according to your personality and not the rule book and we actually had ways of sorting ourselves out.
I went to school for about 2 years when I was 13 and because my brothers are younger than me, they started their educations in school. The teachers complained about how they were shy, how my brother only liked to hang around with the girls and they thought he was being awkward and weird and they didn't catch on to reading or writing. So after about a year, my mum took them back out of school.

Guess who was reading and writing as if they'd been doing it for years within 3 months of leaving school. Guess who suddenly had a great social life and was rarely even in the house anymore.
My brothers, who went from being taught by people who didn't know or trust them to being taught by people who cared for them and knew exactly where they were in terms of all of these things.

On the other hand, I've also met families that are hardcore Christians and even have Christian math books and use home education as a way to control what their kids are exposed to and that is very bad, but that isn't everyone.

I'm not saying that it works for everyone or that every home educational system created by parents is brilliant, but some kids really and truly thrive better in that particular environment than in school. I do think that some kids need the school environment, but you seem to disagree entirely with it and I can assure you that it's nowhere near as destructive as you seem to think.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2011, 07:53:58 PM »

^It depends on the kids and the parents. If the parents are keeping their kids home to teach them that dinosaurs weren't real or that the earth is only a few thousand years old then that isn't right. These kids would be better off at school learning things that would help them in the real world.

If they are doing it because their child responds better to learning at home then it is definitely the right thing to do. Especially when they encourage their kids to join other home educated children for social activities.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2011, 11:43:17 PM »

Really small because it's not related to the thread topic.

I was home educated and so were my brothers. I had to leave school because I was being bullied and threatened every day. For being blonde.
As home educated children, we attended social groups for home-ed children and most of the home educated kids I've met have been smarter than the kids I've known from conventional schooling (I knew a kid who had the qualifications you study for when you're 15 or 16 or something at the age of 10 and my brother recently started going to school for a second attempt at making it work at a fancy academy and was almost immediately bumped up several years in several topics. When I went back to school at the age of 13, I had a university reading level).
Because we all got to spend time with people of all ages, there wasn't as many of those scared little kids who go to their friends houses and practically hide under the bed as soon as the friend's parents walk in. We could all actually communicate with people both older and younger than us. And in these social groups, with the girls, there was the regular sort of bitchiness that you get when you put a group of girls together but there wasn't actually any bullying or anything because we were taught in an environment where the person caring for you can deal with your problems according to your personality and not the rule book and we actually had ways of sorting ourselves out.
I went to school for about 2 years when I was 13 and because my brothers are younger than me, they started their educations in school. The teachers complained about how they were shy, how my brother only liked to hang around with the girls and they thought he was being awkward and weird and they didn't catch on to reading or writing. So after about a year, my mum took them back out of school.

Guess who was reading and writing as if they'd been doing it for years within 3 months of leaving school. Guess who suddenly had a great social life and was rarely even in the house anymore.
My brothers, who went from being taught by people who didn't know or trust them to being taught by people who cared for them and knew exactly where they were in terms of all of these things.

On the other hand, I've also met families that are hardcore Christians and even have Christian math books and use home education as a way to control what their kids are exposed to and that is very bad, but that isn't everyone.

I'm not saying that it works for everyone or that every home educational system created by parents is brilliant, but some kids really and truly thrive better in that particular environment than in school. I do think that some kids need the school environment, but you seem to disagree entirely with it and I can assure you that it's nowhere near as destructive as you seem to think.


i should be clear that i'm not referring to the positive-result families.  i myself was home schooled for two years in grammar school.  i'm referring specifically to a large home-school trend in my area that's basically one step removed from the massive high school dropout rate anyway.  and the overly religious sorts as well.

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Mockery

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2011, 05:18:53 PM »

basically right wing ultra conservative types with too much money and who feel it is their right to meddle in things that they are nowhere near qualified to comment on...ober here we call them the government..( or on a smaller scale thhe PTA)

over here we have more and more parents opting for home-schooling, which is somehow worse.

How is that worse? When you home school, you can give your child the help the need instead of forcing them to go to fast when they don't understand something.

ideally it should, yes, but parents aren't educated nor trained to teach, and teachers are.  not to mention many parents aren't motivated, either.  the main complaint i have read about home schooling is that it can often be an overprotective measure that produces kids with little to no actual education.  plus, it impairs kids socially to the point of many of them not being able to be functioning adults when the time comes.  every home-schooling situation i have ever run across seems at the very least to produce very immature and non-independent kids.

i'm not saying it isn't probably a good idea in the case of learning impaired or special needs kids, but as an alternative to public education it's destructive to the system; it is far more desirable to see parents working with the school system to improve it.



I have to disagree. My sister home schooled her kids and she was so dedicated and motivated to teach her children. They did fantastic! I can see what you're saying about needing to be educated in the skills of teaching but I think that being a parent can help you be a teacher because you always are teaching your kids.
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2011, 06:23:22 PM »

i'd honestly like to see a study of success rates vs unsuccessful home schooling.  i don't have a problem with a serious home school approach, as i have said, but i do have a problem with just anyone thinking they can do it.  then again, i have a problem with just anyone being able to have kids, also.

so you can see where my perspective is with that.
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Mockery

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2011, 11:42:28 AM »

Totally. I get where you're coming from.

This is great! We had a successful discussion!
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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2011, 11:45:47 AM »

Mockery

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Re: adventures in book banning
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2011, 11:05:48 PM »

This is yet another reason why i want to home school my kids.
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