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Author Topic: craftiness  (Read 2815 times)

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imaginary friend

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craftiness
« on: September 02, 2011, 06:23:32 PM »

a thread for things to make and do, like this:    http://io9.com/5837015/how-to-crochet-your-favorite-science-fiction-and-fantasy-icons

 :glasses9:

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 02:04:20 PM »

scrimshaw on mastodon tusk!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/F7FCLWCKlMQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/F7FCLWCKlMQ</a>

 :headbang: :headbang:

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 11:28:06 AM »

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 01:28:23 PM »

The embroidery needs a frame by The Angel Raliel


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Re: craftiness
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 02:36:56 PM »

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2011, 01:00:27 AM »

I participate in subversive cross-stitching! It's the best. Being crafty is fun!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2012, 07:23:16 PM »



 :glasses9:

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2012, 12:17:29 AM »



 :glasses9:
Do I even need to say it.....

...that's kinda hot.   :coolsmiley:
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2012, 03:41:14 AM »



 :glasses9:

the masked knitter,
protector of truth, justice, and the no-dropped-stitches way!

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2012, 11:41:04 AM »



 :glasses9:

Do you by any chance remember where you found this? I'd like to see if a pattern is provided. Also, can we talk about crafts we do here? Or is this mainly a place to put pics of cool crafts we've found?
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2012, 11:58:39 AM »

http://www.etsy.com/listing/88644046/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-convertible

...and feel free to brag about yourself and what you do.

if you sell stuff you make, you might want to start a thread in the Shameless Self promotion section of the forum as well.

 :glasses9:

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2012, 12:18:08 PM »

http://www.etsy.com/listing/88644046/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-convertible

...and feel free to brag about yourself and what you do.

if you sell stuff you make, you might want to start a thread in the Shameless Self promotion section of the forum as well.

 :glasses9:

Thanks so much! As for crafting, I knit and crochet. Amigurumi is my favorite thing as far as crocheting goes (think cute stuffed toys) I want to try cross stitching, and I've dabbled in jewelry (chainmaille being my favorite) I currently don't sell what I make, and I'd absolutley *love*to to hear from fellow crafters on this site.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2012, 12:19:34 PM »

Also, can we talk about crafts we do here? Or is this mainly a place to put pics of cool crafts we've found?

Both, and wherever discussion meanders.



Newbies are so delightful,
and then they become sboxers and the real fun begins. ; - }



Beyond what imaginary friend said well:

This is the Punk Cabaret.
In the lower third of the board,
feel free to post what you want, where you want.

If you stray too far, you'll hear gumbling,
based on other's perceptions of what the norms are here.
(Considering others is also Punk Cabaret, but being yourself is too.)

The core of the "rules" is to do so as yourself, and be kind to one another,
but reading them will help you understand:
http://www.theshadowbox.net/forum/index.php?topic=12409.0

Even in the top third (about the D.Dolls),
and the middle third (about Brigading, Street Teaming,
and helping the D.Dolls and their part of the Punk Cabaret),
discussion can wander in a topic thread.

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 04:43:34 PM »

Check out mah chainmail:
It's gonna be a sleeve for a costume. It's turning out pretty cool.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2012, 07:13:06 PM »

Check out mah chainmail:
It's gonna be a sleeve for a costume. It's turning out pretty cool.

Will you show the costume when it's done?
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2012, 04:00:35 AM »

Definitely.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2012, 09:25:33 AM »

have you tried riveted chainmail? bugger to make but looks super special
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2012, 03:31:18 AM »

I read about that but I'm not sure what it is and how to do it. It would probably take too much time for my costume but maybe I could try after and keep making chainmail as a hobby :P
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2012, 04:37:42 AM »

spring washer chain mail is the next step..tougher than simple split ring stuff ....both are like a gateway drug to hardcore riveting and full on re-enactment though so beware!
http://blog.makezine.com/2010/02/22/how-to-make-riveted-chain-mail/

http://www.romanarmy.net/chainmail.htm
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2012, 05:00:24 AM »

Holy fuck the riveted stuff looks evil but also super cool. All of a sudden I feel like I want to be a blacksmith.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2012, 05:26:23 AM »

if you want to cheat a little you can buy pre pierced washers for riveting.... and simply construct the stuff.... but the hard core in you will eventuall want to try making it all from scratch.....I know a guy who even draws his own wire for making chainmail...he is a swordsmith though and has a proper forge....
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2012, 06:14:30 AM »

Aw man now I have all these awesome fantasies about being a blacksmith's apprentice and making armour and weapons and selling them at fantasy fairs and medieval fairs. I need to get that out of my head, it's never going to happen. But I've already kind of decided to ask for all those pliers and flatteners and tongs for my birthday and try to make riveted chainmail from scratch in the summer holiday when I have more time. I've finally found a creative hobby I really like so I probably won't want to stop after the costumes are finished.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2012, 06:37:16 AM »

well actually if you love making it...it is actually relatively easy to sell to re-enactors and Larpers....(also the fetish scene)
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2012, 12:50:48 PM »

Have you tried chainmaille jewlery? That's my favorite to make :)
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2012, 07:37:34 PM »

The riveted mail looks (to me) a bit too modern-machined....

I don't believe I've EVER seen a historical example fabricated that way.
That said, I quite like chainmail in general.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2012, 07:53:04 PM »

Aw man now I have all these awesome fantasies about being a blacksmith's apprentice and making armour and weapons and selling them at fantasy fairs and medieval fairs. I need to get that out of my head, it's never going to happen. But I've already kind of decided to ask for all those pliers and flatteners and tongs for my birthday and try to make riveted chainmail from scratch in the summer holiday when I have more time. I've finally found a creative hobby I really like so I probably won't want to stop after the costumes are finished.

I've read that blacksmiths are in high demand in the States. A niche market, to be sure - but there aren't very many left, and even fewer going into the trade.

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2012, 01:24:59 AM »

The riveted mail looks (to me) a bit too modern-machined....

I don't believe I've EVER seen a historical example fabricated that way.
That said, I quite like chainmail in general.
having the luxury of living in britain...have seen tonnes of original riveted chainmail....it was invented to stop arrows as the links would not spring open (did not help that much but then I have seen an arrow go clean through a back and breast plate...)
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2012, 05:19:45 AM »

I've read that blacksmiths are in high demand in the States. A niche market, to be sure - but there aren't very many left, and even fewer going into the trade.
If only I lived in the States...

Have you tried chainmaille jewlery? That's my favorite to make :)
I've thought about that but I'd need to find some nicer looking wire and I think I'd have to make smaller rings. I do want to try it when I'm done with these though, it seems cool to make (and wear).
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2012, 06:44:30 PM »




 :D

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2012, 08:10:09 PM »

^ Ahahahahahaha! That is *awesome*
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2012, 02:50:24 AM »

^ Ahahahahahaha! That is *awesome*
Seconded.

Knitted-mail ftfw.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2012, 05:32:45 AM »

I've been sewing myself a tricorne for a while. I keep losing motivation and getting it back again, but I recently got properly back into it and I'm almost finished! I'm not completely finished, though, so excuse the innards of my tricorne poking out in this photograph, but I wanted to show you the hat itself, the three pins I have for the sides, and the black rose thing I may or may not attach, to ask you guys a question: around the base of the hat, should I attach a black satin ribbon, or a white one? I can't decide D:
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2012, 10:52:00 AM »

I'd go with white.

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2012, 03:04:20 PM »

I've been sewing myself a tricorne for a while. I keep losing motivation and getting it back again, but I recently got properly back into it and I'm almost finished! I'm not completely finished, though, so excuse the innards of my tricorne poking out in this photograph, but I wanted to show you the hat itself, the three pins I have for the sides, and the black rose thing I may or may not attach, to ask you guys a question: around the base of the hat, should I attach a black satin ribbon, or a white one? I can't decide D:


red

or make it so, you can change the ribbon
for different outfits and occasions

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2012, 07:11:48 PM »

Yeah, I'm just going to tie it around, I'd just need to take the pins out to change it. Also, multiple ribbons! An exciting idea I cannot believe I hadn't thought of.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2012, 05:11:07 AM »

the world needs more tricorns!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2012, 06:29:25 AM »

Hear hear! I finished it, and wore it to the Dresden Dolls show last night, and Brian Viglione said it was a nice hat :D I'm too sleepy to upload pictures of the finished product right now, but I'm definitely stoked with it, and will show it to you guys some time soon :)
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2012, 08:05:13 PM »

build your own coffin:    http://diycoffin.com/


 :icon_farao:

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2012, 06:49:00 AM »

I made a fake sword! I kinda wanna make a real one some day.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2012, 04:42:45 PM »

...did I mention that I started a Craft Club with some of my friends? We basically get drunk and craft and do something different each month. We worked with that glass etching cream this month. The entire label was a warning about how it'll eat our hands off. AWESOME.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2012, 03:06:41 PM »

...did I mention that I started a Craft Club with some of my friends? We basically get drunk and craft and do something different each month. We worked with that glass etching cream this month. The entire label was a warning about how it'll eat our hands off. AWESOME.
..and it makes one's nostrils itch......this is why i prefer engraving with a diamond tipped dentist's drill
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2012, 03:34:03 PM »

...did I mention that I started a Craft Club with some of my friends? We basically get drunk and craft and do something different each month. We worked with that glass etching cream this month. The entire label was a warning about how it'll eat our hands off. AWESOME.
..and it makes one's nostrils itch......this is why i prefer engraving with a diamond tipped dentist's drill

Yeah...this would have been way beyond the realm of the roomful of drunken n00bs I was dealing with...
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2012, 04:22:44 PM »

....but playing with life threatening chemical pastes is not?
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2012, 05:03:13 PM »

Sadly, yes. "Stick this stencil on, wear these gloves, and don't get any on you" was easier to convey than "be careful with this tool, don't point it near any vital organs, and please don't break this."
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2012, 08:38:10 AM »

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2012, 01:33:17 PM »


Wow!  Riker looks JUST LIKE JESUS (but in a Starfleet uniform...)!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2012, 02:18:59 PM »

Sadly, yes. "Stick this stencil on, wear these gloves, and don't get any on you" was easier to convey than "be careful with this tool, don't point it near any vital organs, and please don't break this."
little known fact...you can totally put a high speed, diamond and carbon-steel engavers point to your finger without damage..just DO NOT put it anywhere near a finger nail!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2012, 01:05:24 PM »

...did I mention that I started a Craft Club with some of my friends? We basically get drunk and craft and do something different each month. We worked with that glass etching cream this month. The entire label was a warning about how it'll eat our hands off. AWESOME.

I used to go to UFOs, un-finished objects. There wasn't usually alcohol, though, so I envy that.

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2012, 01:59:16 PM »

Ooh. UFO. Good term. I have TONS of UFOs hanging around my house...

I recently made some of these, just because they're fucking ridiculous. Who needs these? Nobody.

http://www.spiritfingerz.com/


At April's meeting, we'll be making these:

http://sodapop-design.de/2011/01/diy-doily-bowl/

http://www.stylelist.com/2012/01/04/craft-of-the-day-doily-bowl_n_1183322.html

(Same post, just one's in German.)
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2012, 12:17:10 PM »

not sure LEGO creations count as crafts, but I started this thread so I'm posting this here anyway.  :P


http://io9.com/5909719/the-nine-circles-of-hell-as-depicted-in-lego

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2012, 10:52:22 PM »

not sure LEGO creations count as crafts, but I started this thread so I'm posting this here anyway.  :P


http://io9.com/5909719/the-nine-circles-of-hell-as-depicted-in-lego
That's pretty awesome.   ;D
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2012, 12:56:43 PM »

not sure LEGO creations count as crafts, but I started this thread so I'm posting this here anyway.  :P


http://io9.com/5909719/the-nine-circles-of-hell-as-depicted-in-lego

This is pretty darn amazing.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2012, 05:10:06 AM »

I couldn't figure out what to get my friend for her birthday, so among a few other small things. I did this



Basically a plain wooden letter and some tape. Turned out pretty cool me thinks.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2012, 08:40:15 AM »

I need some advice about stretch velvet and google isn't being entirely helpful. I know it sags a lot in cloaks etc, but if the bit challenging gravity is only 13cm long and the velvet isn't that heavy, do you think it will be problematic?
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2012, 04:21:27 PM »

I maked detachable collarz!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2012, 04:23:15 PM »

^that's a great idea for the shows.i have no fancy clothes so that detail would be ideal for me.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2012, 06:51:29 PM »

I need some advice about stretch velvet and google isn't being entirely helpful. I know it sags a lot in cloaks etc, but if the bit challenging gravity is only 13cm long and the velvet isn't that heavy, do you think it will be problematic?

Not an expert, but I think it will probably be ok.

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2012, 07:36:23 PM »

if you want to try making light-up projects, this site can help:   http://www.save-on-crafts.com/glowproducts.html

 :glasses9:

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2012, 10:56:31 PM »

if you want to try making light-up projects, this site can help:   http://www.save-on-crafts.com/glowproducts.html

 :glasses9:
Light-up projects, you say?

Come visit me at the beginning of November: InLight 2012
(Check the stuff from past years' InLight shows.)
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2012, 04:34:48 AM »

My top hat is currently a fez as I haven't done the brim yet. It fits me perfectly, even though I thought I'd screwed it up. I'm wearing it while I sew the brim (which I have yet to attach) and it's actually pretty warm for a purely vanity based hat. Magic of velvet :)
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2012, 07:07:11 PM »

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2012, 09:36:10 AM »

I've been obsessing about having my own smokehouse for a while now...I could actually do this one!      http://cowgirlscountry.blogspot.com/2008/01/building-cold-smoker-smokehouse.html


 :headbang: :glasses9: :glasses9: :glasses9: :headbang:

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2012, 10:43:30 AM »

My top hat is currently a fez as I haven't done the brim yet. It fits me perfectly, even though I thought I'd screwed it up. I'm wearing it while I sew the brim (which I have yet to attach) and it's actually pretty warm for a purely vanity based hat. Magic of velvet :)
Recently picked it up again after an extended hiatus while finishing uni assignments. I'm at the final assembly stage, but since it's my first full sized top hat it's going a bit questionably in places. Summer doesn't help because my productivity goes to hell when it's hot. I'm sort of trial and erroring my way through this, we shall see how it works out.
Also, screw top hats, I'm going back to tricornes after this (she says now).
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Tricorns are fuckbanana awesome.

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2012, 12:03:32 PM »

Because Tricorns are fuckbanana awesome.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2012, 12:59:11 PM »

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2012, 02:47:49 PM »

Because Tricorns are fuckbanana awesome.
;D
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2012, 09:41:04 AM »

Finished it. The brim got a bit fucked up. Not sure if I'll ever wear it, it's quite a bit brighter and more silvery than it appears in the pic (it's hard to get light at 3am in my bedroom ;D )

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I mean really, my sins are my own - i don't wnat some cunt to swoop in and wipe the slate clean. it is my fucking slate. fuck offf.

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Tricorns are fuckbanana awesome.

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2012, 10:23:23 AM »

Finished it. The brim got a bit fucked up. Not sure if I'll ever wear it, it's quite a bit brighter and more silvery than it appears in the pic (it's hard to get light at 3am in my bedroom ;D )



Wow! You are so talented  :D it looks great, you should totally wear it!!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2012, 01:42:16 PM »

Finished it. The brim got a bit fucked up. Not sure if I'll ever wear it, it's quite a bit brighter and more silvery than it appears in the pic (it's hard to get light at 3am in my bedroom ;D )


ooh!  That's luvly!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2012, 03:03:27 PM »

You are so fancy!! I love how it looks with your hair color.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2012, 12:05:35 AM »

Thanks everyone :D I'm already really eager to start on my next one, haha. Unemployment is driving my craft instincts insane.
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Tricorns are fuckbanana awesome.

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2012, 12:15:39 AM »

Where'd ya get the coffin mirror?   :D
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2012, 01:03:44 AM »

Some random new age gift store in south dunedin. It was half price because they were closing down. I felt awkward buying something so nice for myself while at a gift store on holiday, so I said yes when she asked if I wanted it gift wrapped, so I could pretend it was for someone else. But then when I flew home I felt awkward unwrapping the present to myself, but it was kind of exciting too.
Yep. That's my story ;D
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2012, 01:28:02 AM »

Some random new age gift store in south dunedin. It was half price because they were closing down. I felt awkward buying something so nice for myself while at a gift store on holiday, so I said yes when she asked if I wanted it gift wrapped, so I could pretend it was for someone else. But then when I flew home I felt awkward unwrapping the present to myself, but it was kind of exciting too.
Yep. That's my story ;D

It's really fun buying gifts for yourself and unwrapping them though you know what it is O0
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2012, 08:10:28 PM »

not sure LEGO creations count as crafts, but I started this thread so I'm posting this here anyway.  :P

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2012, 09:43:33 PM »

not sure LEGO creations count as crafts, but I started this thread so I'm posting this here anyway.  :P


I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that right now..... 
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #78 on: December 13, 2012, 03:04:22 PM »

I figured this is the best place for this.

Story Here
Quote
The University of Chicago Admissions department received a package Wednesday that initially wasn't given a second thought until they gave it a closer look.

On the surface, the package addressed to "Dr. Henry Walton Jones, Jr." seemed innocuous enough until a student mail worker asked who Dr. Jones was. That's when they realized the package was addressed to none other than Indiana Jones...


Is it wrong that my first thought was, "Sallah?"
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #79 on: December 13, 2012, 03:21:43 PM »

fantastic!!!!!!



do we think it is an elaborate PR deal? Like they will announce re-release of the dvds or special edition or god forbid 3-D in theatres?
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #80 on: December 13, 2012, 06:07:50 PM »

^That would make me really sad. I'd much rather it was some odd prank from someone with too much time on their hands, it takes away all the whimsy if it's done in the name of mass media.

If it is done by some strange person (or team of people) on their own, it's totally awesome and fantastical and cute.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2012, 07:36:20 PM »

^That would make me really sad. I'd much rather it was some odd prank from someone with too much time on their hands, it takes away all the whimsy if it's done in the name of mass media.

If it is done by some strange person (or team of people) on their own, it's totally awesome and fantastical and cute.


I agree! It will be much better if it turns out to just be an adoring fan!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2012, 01:23:49 AM »

^Agreed! I took a class on childrens literature a couple of years ago in which we studied Harry Potter (among several other things, of course). Someone wrote a letter to the main lecturer addressed from Hogwarts, informing her that she'd been given a teaching position (I forget which) and was being made the head of Ravenclaw house. It was properly decorated to look like a Hogwarts letter and she ended up bringing it to class and reading it to us. As far as I know, they never found out which student sent it. I love things like that :D
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2012, 08:36:56 AM »

I doubt it was a PR attempt. Whoever did this can't properly spell "Illinois". They spelled it "Illonois".
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #84 on: December 27, 2012, 01:50:32 PM »

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #85 on: December 27, 2012, 04:31:47 PM »

That is at least seven kinds of awesome.
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #86 on: December 27, 2012, 05:49:15 PM »

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #87 on: December 27, 2012, 11:37:53 PM »

Danke good sir!
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #88 on: January 05, 2013, 12:55:42 PM »

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2013, 07:40:36 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qzIXq_USMtQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/qzIXq_USMtQ</a>

 :D

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Re: craftiness
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2013, 09:58:53 PM »



instructions here:   http://updates.jezebel.com/post/34856710148/diy-how-to-make-your-very-own-naughty-cross-stitch

Making this. Except first, I'm making it a proper pattern.

I learned how to knit and crochet last month, but I'm sure that by the time I get back to it, I will have forgotten it all. Piss.

My craft club made cute Valentine garlands this month. I would post a photo, but I was too drunk and left my creations at my friend's house.  8)
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Re: craftiness
« Reply #91 on: March 03, 2013, 12:47:14 AM »

I'm making patches for a blazer that's actually got holes in it I'm patching over. There's a long, narrow tear in the front on the right side, and I've been trying to decide for ages what to put there. Finally settled on a key to hell, but I don't know which one to use. There's the one Lucifer uses to lock all the gates near the start of season of mists, but then it loses its edges around the ring when Morpheus has it, and is for some reason always portrayed (in tattoos and fan art etc) with that little curve at the top, even though that was on a cover and as far as I remember not actually in the comics. Does anyone know how or why they came to use that representation as the main key to hell, and what the curve is supposed to be/if it was just a redesign afterthought or something? I can't decide which one I want :s

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