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Author Topic: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?  (Read 6613 times)

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slyvia k

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couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« on: September 05, 2011, 07:47:32 AM »

i think it's just dreadful personally. i don't think it's the way to resolve obesity...
and, yeah, even just walking about here i do see many underfed kids. except there is no social stigma against them...

do you think that the government should have this type of control?



http://www.inewsone.com/2011/09/04/couple-to-lose-kids-for-obesity-in-scotland/73442
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 08:04:32 AM »

this is wrong

though i would consider the
government taking away health insurance
from the family

shame the poor family couldn't just move elsewhere
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2011, 11:09:10 AM »

absolutely ridiculous.

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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2011, 12:11:07 PM »

I suppose it depends on the situation. How obese is obese in this case?   

What consequences are there for parents who provide their young children with cigarettes and alcohol etc? I’m aware that some get suspended prison sentences but the penalty would surely have to escalate if they carried on creating and/or feeding the addiction to disastrous effect.

There was a local case of an extremely obese mother feeding her baby junk food. That is completely screwed up. Having a really bad habit yourself is one thing but passing it on to the next generation is totally out of order.

Parental rights need redefining to include additional duties to the children.   
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slyvia k

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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 12:24:44 PM »

I suppose it depends on the situation. How obese is obese in this case?   

What consequences are there for parents who provide their young children with cigarettes and alcohol etc? I’m aware that some get suspended prison sentences but the penalty would surely have to escalate if they carried on creating and/or feeding the addiction to disastrous effect.

There was a local case of an extremely obese mother feeding her baby junk food. That is completely screwed up. Having a really bad habit yourself is one thing but passing it on to the next generation is totally out of order.

Parental rights need redefining to include additional duties to the children.   
well according to the article, they had been ''warned'' like 2 years ago and a social worker watched ALL their meals (which must be pretty annoying, i guess)... apparently the parents say they had abolished snacks and cooked only healthy stuff but it didn't help control the weight...

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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2011, 12:44:17 PM »

This nearly happened to my aunt and uncle maybe 7 years ago with my cousin. He was a little baby and they started him on solids early and it was all bad food and they did the same with my other two cousins but they inexplicably aren't particularly large (or weren't last time I saw them, which was actually a few years ago, so you never know). I recall something to do with fried chicken. Anyway, after they were warned, they started taking better care of what they were feeding him. And now they're all fine.
It was heartbreaking, though, and I remember him sitting up and not being able to reach the toys at his feet because he was so large and because he was just a baby, of course he had no concept that it wasn't good at all and it was really just something being inflicted on him by his parents.

It is really sad and I do think that the whole '‘fostered without contact’ or adopted' thing is really harsh, but this is their lives, you know. If their parents aren't taking care of them properly and doing things that could make them sick now or later in life then maybe there should be someone else taking care of them and trying to fix this. And I felt the same about whose hands the care of my cousin was in, up until they turned it around in order to stop it from happening.
I don't think it should be 'without contact' though. That is the what-the-fuck-est thing I've heard in a long time.


though i would consider the
government taking away health insurance
from the family


Pretty sure that this would just make it harder for them to get help if something happened to any of them as a result of the obesity issue.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2011, 01:40:54 PM »

A brief stay in a weight clinic (or "fat camp") would probably be more reasonable than permanent separation from the parents. At least there would be a chance to know for certain that genetics were not the main problem. There would definitely be good reason to have the kids fostered if the problem continued after it was known to be a lifestyle issue.

also: the “Daily mail” (source of the linked story) isn’t a newspaper I trust for accuracy. They completely screwed up the MMR vaccine situation with misinformation and seem to generally stir up all kinds of controversy. On that basis I'll wait for other sources of info before forming too much more of an opinion.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2011, 09:42:47 PM »

If you have kids this is a scary story.

Unless they are beating these kids, verbally abusing them or sexually abusing them, unless they are exposing them to drugs and alcohol then they should stay with their parents. They were observed for a long period of time, you would have to assume that if the parents were overfeeding them then the plug would have been pulled sooner. These kids could have a medical condition that hasn't been picked up. It will be too late if it is diagnosed after they are removed from their parents.

This whole case is weird but parents have it hard enough these days, the ones who love and care for their kids should be allowed to keep them. The welfare could mandate exercise for these children, they could force the parents to complete a full course in nutrition but they should not remove children from their parents for something like this. More damage would be done to the kids from being dragged away from their parents.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2011, 06:52:42 AM »

They have just started doing this in Germany too.

I am sure that its a very extreme case, otherwise this would not have been done.  The article states that they had been given other forms of help and it obviously wasn't working.

Honestly I think it sends a message out that parents need to think about what they are feeding their kids.  So many parents feed their kids rubbish food and don't even think twice about it.  A two year old eating a whole packet of sweets or chips - that is as big as its head!

I don't think it is something that should concern average parents, as it is not happening every day by any means, but it should make them think twice.

 
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 03:11:17 PM »

Quote
Unless they are beating these kids, verbally abusing them or sexually abusing them, unless they are exposing them to drugs and alcohol then they should stay with their parents.

I think the degree to which the children are jeopardized is more relevant than the nature of and source of the risk. Marijuana in the house versus needles on the living room floor... a minor spanking versus an iron cord to the back... allowing them to eat more junk food than is responsible or letting them take decades off their lives through gross overeating?

There is nothing about obesity that is intrinsically less dangerous than anything else listed there, and the power to prevent it is the parental charge. There is nothing even remotely wrong with intervention if the case is severe enough.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 03:23:19 PM »

Quote
and, yeah, even just walking about here i do see many underfed kids. except there is no social stigma against them...


Social stigma doesn't have anything to do with it. IF kids are being put at risk by underfeeding, overfeeding, cigarette exposure, alcohol... whatever, they can and should be subject to intervention from social services. This isn't fat stigma, and it offends me that "fat stigma" has come to be portrayed as such a villainous social problem that we can't even talk about saving people who are dying from obesity- especially kids.

The sentiment here is REALLY "don't protect the kids"? Am I being punked?
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 04:43:21 PM »

Oh Mr numbers we have missed you.....of course you make it really boring because you always end up pointing out the reality to our lynch mobbing.....but yes abuse take many forms and often the worst is the abuse that is inflicted by kindness and stupidity..........and removing of benefits etc does nothing other than drive such families even further into the cracks of society........
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 05:02:13 PM »

Thank God someone's said that. Seriously.
Yeah, it sucks that these parents might lose their kids. It really, really sucks. And I still don't agree with the whole 'without contact' deal, but having seen a similar thing first hand in my own family, I can't agree with anyone who is going 'OH NOOOO THEY SHOULD JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE OR KEEP WATCHING THEM.'
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2011, 05:04:36 PM »

Torches and pitchforks cannot occupy a space in which wisdom prevails.

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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2011, 07:38:36 PM »


I think the degree to which the children are jeopardized is more relevant than the nature of and source of the risk. Marijuana in the house versus needles on the living room floor... a minor spanking versus an iron cord to the back... allowing them to eat more junk food than is responsible or letting them take decades off their lives through gross overeating?

There is nothing about obesity that is intrinsically less dangerous than anything else listed there, and the power to prevent it is the parental charge. There is nothing even remotely wrong with intervention if the case is severe enough.

I agree!

Torches and pitchforks cannot occupy a space in which wisdom prevails.

Not so sure I agree with this statement.  I think I can name many times and places where a relatively enlightened culture fell to lynch mobs...
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2011, 08:36:20 PM »

Wisdom can certainly falter among the enlightened. All of us are prone to succumbing to outrage. It requires conscious vigilance to avoid falling victim to it, especially when it becomes socially unacceptable to stand in defiance of the mob's expectations. In those cases not joining the mob isn't enough. One must speak the perspective of opposition. If my own wisdom falters in such a scenario, I hope someone is there to say, "Hey, wait a minute!"
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2011, 11:25:51 PM »

Torches and pitchforks cannot occupy a space in which wisdom prevails.
Yes, but unfortunately, torches and pitchforks usually drown out reason and wisdom.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 01:04:00 PM »

and a good mob is so much more fun than actually thinking.....
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2011, 10:26:28 PM »

and a good mob is so much more fun than actually thinking.....
QFT...
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2011, 03:53:29 AM »

I think "without contact" is a crazy overreaction, but observation clearly isn't working. I agree with the idea of sending them on a camp for a while, to see if professionals can trim their weight down, and also to see how they're affected by being separated from their parents. Stress can make people gain weight, too....
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2011, 11:19:57 AM »

Wisdom can certainly falter among the enlightened. All of us are prone to succumbing to outrage.


Sometimes outrage is something to rise to the level of, a peak of wisdom.

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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2011, 05:08:28 PM »

So can be pride or remorse, but it is not good to base one's actions on having succumbed to any of these things. Emotions can be valid, but the framework of reason is what me must use to integrate them into our behavior in proper measure.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2011, 04:12:02 PM »

i think it's just dreadful personally. i don't think it's the way to resolve obesity...
and, yeah, even just walking about here i do see many underfed kids. except there is no social stigma against them...

do you think that the government should have this type of control?



http://www.inewsone.com/2011/09/04/couple-to-lose-kids-for-obesity-in-scotland/73442


people done went crazy:      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8768927/Italian-parents-too-old-and-selfish-to-look-after-child.html

slyvia k

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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2011, 07:27:52 AM »

i think it's just dreadful personally. i don't think it's the way to resolve obesity...
and, yeah, even just walking about here i do see many underfed kids. except there is no social stigma against them...

do you think that the government should have this type of control?



http://www.inewsone.com/2011/09/04/couple-to-lose-kids-for-obesity-in-scotland/73442


people done went crazy:      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8768927/Italian-parents-too-old-and-selfish-to-look-after-child.html
yeah i read about it a couple of days ago... x_x
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2011, 10:24:18 AM »

Wait, so they are solely blaming the parents? What about the schools not giving them proper nutrition or maybe the kids snuck food. They shouldn't punish the parents for something that has so many variables.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2011, 10:44:23 AM »

Wait, so they are solely blaming the parents? What about the schools not giving them proper nutrition or maybe the kids snuck food. They shouldn't punish the parents for something that has so many variables.

I think fast food shouldn't be sold the kids under 18 without the survey of their parents.

One of my friends has a very spoiled 5 year old boy, whenever he gets mad at something he starts crying earsplittingly, and she takes him to a fastfood restaurant and buys him a kids menu. The boy already wears 8 years old clothings.
Fast food makes children grow fatter quicker than hell, like hormone injected tomatoes.
I think in a very short time, fast food will become the main cause of death around the world. And i can't understand why parents can not see it coming. Even the governments ignore it, as you said, they still let canteens to sell unhealthy food.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2011, 12:57:47 AM »

Hey look! It's an intelligent spambot!
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2011, 01:01:49 AM »

it was.

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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2012, 07:10:21 PM »

The article was kind of vague. There are a lot of different factors to consider before one should take children away from everything they know. They were in a monitored facility where food was controlled, but how strict was it? I mean even if someone is eating nothing but healthly home-cooked meals but they don't have the appropriate portions, he or she won't really see an improvement (unless its all raw fruits and vegetables, but I highly doubt that was their primary diet). I don't know about anywhere else, but in the United States, truly healthy food is NOT inexpensive. It is near impossible for a lower-income family to get proper nutrition. Even if the government gives you food, theyre mostly vouchers for junky foods.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2012, 07:53:07 PM »

^
I live in England and eating healthily is more affordable than eating unhealthily (where I live at least).

I've worked out that if I gained 35 lb and had to maintain it I would have to eat an extra two months worth of calories every year. If all those calories had to be nutritious it would be a potentially expensive diet but this isn't the case. I wonder if this might skew the perception of healthy eating.        


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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2012, 12:02:23 AM »

I didn't followed this discussion the first time round, tbh, but if it's being resurrected then my opinion is that it's part of the responsibility of the parents to care for their children and control their eating until they're old enough to do it themselves, and to educate them enough so that they are at least theoretically capable of managing when they become more independent. Letting your child starve if you have the power to feed them is obviously abuse - and I maintain that letting your child get so fat that it constitutes a health risk is also a form of abuse. It's neglect on the part of the parent. It *is* hard to eat healthily, it takes a lot of discipline and effort and sometimes it's just so much easier to bung a packet in the microwave or order out or whatever. But while an adult can make those decisions for themselves and understand the choices they make, a child can't. Children are naturally greedy and want to eat sugary, fatty foods, and so it's up to the parents to feed them properly just as much as it's up to them to get the child to bed at a reasonable hour or see that she's properly clothed.

I'm going to use an example from my own life, which isn't perfect but I don't have anything else to hand. I'm a very greedy person, always have been, but my mum always made sure that we had a home-cooked meal once a day, cereal for breakfast, had rules like one packet of crisps OR two biscuits a day and no more, no fizzy drinks unless we bought them with our pocket money and then only one a day, and take-away once a month. We snuck sweets or pop, of course, as most kids will, but the rules were there and generally speaking we stuck to them. It doesn't take much to raise a child with a healthy diet, and a failure to do so - especially a failure to do so over *three years* is astonishing and I think does speak volumes about these people's parenting.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2012, 12:50:50 AM »

@Indja: Agreed! I'm by no means defending the parents 100%. Like I said, there are a lot of factors that may have gone unexplained in the article, but a lot of it is the parents' responsibility to teach the children that constant overindulgence is unhealthy. Kids--though they have their own ideas and personalities--don't know what's good for them and what's bad for them. Parents should at least try to teach them, and if they want to be unhealthy when they're adults...then you tried, I guess.
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Re: couple to lose kids for obesity in scotland...what do you think?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2012, 01:30:53 AM »

^Even if they know what's good and bad, you just don't have the self-control when you're a child to put that knowledge into practise. The way I was raised has left me knowing what's a good diet and what's a bad diet, and the value of exercise to both physical and mental health. I don't put that knowledge into practise very much, but I'm old enough to make that decision for myself, which I wasn't at aged 9 or whatever xD
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