THESHADOWBOX.NET

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

AFP's not camera shy and her YouTube and Vimeo channels are chock-full of eye candy to prove it. Content's added to both all the time, so be sure to subscribe!

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.  (Read 11943 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« on: January 07, 2012, 03:30:47 PM »

Am I the only person who's uncomfortable with how Amanda got that hickey at the Sydney gig?  To me it seemed to be just on the wrong side of sexual assault...I mean, that girl actually left a mark on Amanda's body by performing an uninvited sexual act.  That just icks me completely.  

I get that Amanda is open and loving and joyful and loves her fans a lot and she just givesgivesgives to us.  But there's still a line and, for me, this incident crossed it.  

*** text deleted ***

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Amanda, if you're genuinely cool with this happening, then that's awesome and I'm glad.  But if you're not, then I hope that you are brave enough to say so.  No one will think any less of you for calling out a fan on bad behaviour.  You are not our bitch.  

(Disclaimer to all of the above: This is just my opinion.  In no way should this be taken as "Amanda must feel this way" etc).

What this gal did was wrong.

Amanda's tweets on this, as well as the picture she tweeted, made it clear:
Amanda is NOT OK with this.

A similar incident happened at the last concert of the Winter Tour four years ago.  Mid-Jan 2008. At the Norva.  On a balcony.  No marks.  And it was very quick.  I saw the fan go over, and it seemed funny, but my view angle didn't let me see the actual assault from 20 feet or so away.  Was by a well-known fan from the early days, who was too drunk to know better.  Apologies were offered and accepted.  Amanda blogged about it.  The blog should still be there.  
Amanda was NOT OK about this earlier time either.  

These are the only two fan assaults I know of.  

When I've seen Amanda do these audience walk performances, she always often has had a member of her tour staff (not house security (no way, someone who does not understand Amanda and her fans can provide this kind of security)) accompany her.  They were there for her EDITboth these times at the Norva,endEDIT doing the right thing as subtlety as possible.

EDIT: I've been told by a fan present, that Jaron wasn't shadow escorting Amanda when the succubus struck in Sydney, but heard her cry, and made light speed to help her.  endEDIT
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

indeciSEAN

  • Das Ruling Klass
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1327
  • Rise of The Cephalobot!
    • Twitter
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2012, 06:34:20 PM »

Exactly, Len. nonibet: And Amanda wasn't "cool" with it in any way/shape/form…
She handled it like a pro, but that doesn't mean she was happy about what went down or in any way endorses any behavior like that…

BTW, after the webcast, I thought about that very same blog……………
Here are links for those who aren't familiar:
Old Dolls' blog: http://dresdendollsdiary.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-tour-finale.html
Cross-posted on MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/afp/blog/347996482
Logged

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2012, 06:40:45 PM »

this seems to happen on a regular basis in one form or another.... i recall a stolen uke...that was returned after the parties involved woke up the following morning....simple answer is that one should respect the artist as much, if not more, than one respects oneself......
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2012, 06:49:23 PM »

Could someone posts amanda's tweets URLs, as well as the URL to amanda's tweeted pic.
Will save me the trouble. 
(There has been an awful lot of spam to clear today.)

And if you want,
the twitter exchange this afternoon between her and Neil,
including the second picture.  It's full of love.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

Pope Totalfrog

  • AKA Arse Fez von Titty Biscuit
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 5023
  • Queen of the wild (suburban) frontier.
    • twitter
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2012, 07:23:23 PM »

Amanda handled it like a total professional. If someone latched on to me like that they would have ended up going over the balcony.

I mean that had to hurt. I'm sure A was a bit shaken up once the show was over. How could you not be?

From Twitter -
https://twitter.com/amandapalmer/statuses/155630643844358144


https://twitter.com/amandapalmer/statuses/155634180045279234  
Quote
....i feel thrilled yet violated. thank god for @jaronsound who pulled the succubus off. could have got ugly, no? moby.to/d9to0a



EDIT fix moby.to link so it's clickable -lentower
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 10:05:28 PM by lentower »
Logged
Wow. Froggie's like a superhero...
Trick question: No matter how they're prepared, and how hungry you may be, tarantulas are NOT food

Hayley Fiasco!

  • mgmt jr.
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 5237
  • WKAP is in the Black 9s of WHRW's record library
    • hayleyfiasco.com
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2012, 09:45:00 PM »

I also recalled the earlier uncomfortable violation from 2007/08 when I saw the tweets about what happened last night... amanda's been going into the crowd and directly meeting/interacting with fans one-on-one by the THOUSANDS. It's really disappointing (to say the least) that something like this happened (again, none the less). Some people do things without thinking or realizing that they're not good ideas... whether they are drunk or not.

I guess it's just important to be conscious of the fact that Amanda, your fellow concert attendees, some random dude on the street etc. are all PEOPLE and it should be common sense to respect their space and not violate or threaten their comfort, no matter what you assume would be wild and crazy and exciting.
Logged
@HayleyFiasco

Member of Team AFP

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2012, 10:06:52 PM »

totalfrog & indeciSEAN:

THANX for digging out the links!
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2012, 10:10:54 PM »

this seems to happen on a regular basis in one form or another.... i recall a stolen uke...that was returned after the parties involved woke up the following morning....simple answer is that one should respect the artist as much, if not more, than one respects oneself......

I can believe regular for the population of all artists.

Rare for Amanda and Brian.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

Astica

  • Ghost
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3612
  • Purportedly decadent.
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 08:56:58 AM »

I just read the blog from 2008. Right with steph g about the shouts of love thing. I'm not a musician, but I feel it would piss me off having people yelling shit through my songs as it would suggest they're not paying attention. I'd also find it very creepy, and I've always admired the way Amanda deals with it. Whenever I've met Amanda at shows I've always just sort of quietly said hi and maybe a few other words and got shit signed and tried not to put upon her too much, because I figure it must get quite heavy with whole tours of devoted fans to meet and what have you. At signing desks I've mentioned various songs I've particularly enjoyed of hers, and maybe asked her a quick question or two, and she kissed me once on my birthday, but it was brief and consensual ;D Plus there are always queues and what have you so its usually just a case of "hey nice show, loved the bit where you played this song, can you please sign this thanks have fun". I later read her blog about chest rippings and how she likes it when people talk to her about what her music means to them etc and I wondered if maybe it would have been nicer to say more rather than sounding a bit indifferent, but hey, I figure it's better to underdo it than overdo it. I remember one year I went with a girl who wrote her a letter and gave it to her after the show with some chocolates, and Amanda seemed really flattered by it, so maybe that's one way of getting appreciation out there without getting into her space or time too much.
I'm not really a crazy AFP fan, anyway. I mean I like and respect her, and I like her music, but I certainly don't love her. I also think it's sad that there are people who would seek to abuse the connection Amanda tries to make with her fans, whether they mean to or not. Whether she's a particularly accessible musician or not, she's still a person with boundaries, and most of her fans are still strangers to her. In both of these cases, I wonder if the fans expected her to be okay with it, or if they were just overwhelmed by alcohol or lust or something and forgot to care.

[/3am stream of consciousness]

EDIT: actually, just remembered this one time in....2010? This (quite drunk sounding) girl kept yelling out about how she loved Amanda so much. She must have realised it was annoying people, since she then started apologising at the same time. After about the 5th "AMANDA I LOVE YOU I'M SORRY", Amanda, who was between songs, made some comment along the lines of "wow, it's like we have this whole passive-aggressive relationship I'm not even a part of". Everyone cracked up, and I thought it was a totally good call. The girl kind of shut up after that, but she still had to interrupt both Amanda's songs and speeches in between several times before Amanda even said anything about it, which is way the hell more tolerant than I could ever be ;D
Logged
Quote from: Indja
I mean really, my sins are my own - i don't wnat some cunt to swoop in and wipe the slate clean. it is my fucking slate. fuck offf.

Quote from: N.U.
Tricorns are fuckbanana awesome.

slyvia k

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6928
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 09:48:37 AM »



EDIT: actually, just remembered this one time in....2010? This (quite drunk sounding) girl kept yelling out about how she loved Amanda so much. She must have realised it was annoying people, since she then started apologising at the same time. After about the 5th "AMANDA I LOVE YOU I'M SORRY", Amanda, who was between songs, made some comment along the lines of "wow, it's like we have this whole passive-aggressive relationship I'm not even a part of". Everyone cracked up, and I thought it was a totally good call. The girl kind of shut up after that, but she still had to interrupt both Amanda's songs and speeches in between several times before Amanda even said anything about it, which is way the hell more tolerant than I could ever be ;D
must have been hilarious though...  ;D
Logged

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 10:45:16 AM »

I just read the blog from 2008. Right with steph g about the shouts of love thing. I'm not a musician, but I feel it would piss me off having people yelling shit through my songs as it would suggest they're not paying attention. I'd also find it very creepy, and I've always admired the way Amanda deals with it. Whenever I've met Amanda at shows I've always just sort of quietly said hi and maybe a few other words and got shit signed and tried not to put upon her too much, because I figure it must get quite heavy with whole tours of devoted fans to meet and what have you. At signing desks I've mentioned various songs I've particularly enjoyed of hers, and maybe asked her a quick question or two, and she kissed me once on my birthday, but it was brief and consensual ;D Plus there are always queues and what have you so its usually just a case of "hey nice show, loved the bit where you played this song, can you please sign this thanks have fun". I later read her blog about chest rippings and how she likes it when people talk to her about what her music means to them etc and I wondered if maybe it would have been nicer to say more rather than sounding a bit indifferent, but hey, I figure it's better to underdo it than overdo it. I remember one year I went with a girl who wrote her a letter and gave it to her after the show with some chocolates, and Amanda seemed really flattered by it, so maybe that's one way of getting appreciation out there without getting into her space or time too much.
I'm not really a crazy AFP fan, anyway. I mean I like and respect her, and I like her music, but I certainly don't love her. I also think it's sad that there are people who would seek to abuse the connection Amanda tries to make with her fans, whether they mean to or not. Whether she's a particularly accessible musician or not, she's still a person with boundaries, and most of her fans are still strangers to her. In both of these cases, I wonder if the fans expected her to be okay with it, or if they were just overwhelmed by alcohol or lust or something and forgot to care.

I use to never get in line.  Just watch meet-n-greet, and leave.
Like Astica, I had nothing special to say, and just meeting them is so special to many of their fans,
that I wanted to leave the time to those fans, and also to A&B who get so tired when they tour.
A&B can also really change a fan life, in a few seconds.  I watch meet-n-greet to see that happen.
Well, they take more than the typical few seconds per fan, but they can sense when a fan needs their support.
And are very good at giving what's needed.  Often life-changing for the fan.  One of my favorite things about Brian and Amanda,

After several dozen gigs (I live in Boston, and made everything for my first year as a fan (still do)),
Brian bounched over, and said:
"I'm Brian.  You're Len Tower.  Thanks for being a fan."
I said:
"Thanks for performing and caring about your fans."
and he bounched off.

I discussed this all with one of the wise amongst our fellow fans.
And was told I was a boob, and should stand in line.
(said fan is much politer than that, but that what it boiled down to ; - ).

So I do now.

[/3am stream of consciousness]

EDIT: actually, just remembered this one time in....2010? This (quite drunk sounding) girl kept yelling out about how she loved Amanda so much. She must have realised it was annoying people, since she then started apologising at the same time. After about the 5th "AMANDA I LOVE YOU I'M SORRY", Amanda, who was between songs, made some comment along the lines of "wow, it's like we have this whole passive-aggressive relationship I'm not even a part of". Everyone cracked up, and I thought it was a totally good call. The girl kind of shut up after that, but she still had to interrupt both Amanda's songs and speeches in between several times before Amanda even said anything about it, which is way the hell more tolerant than I could ever be ;D

Amanda and Brian respect us, their fans.  We should, in return, respect them.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 10:56:03 AM »

this seems to happen on a regular basis in one form or another.... i recall a stolen uke...that was returned after the parties involved woke up the following morning....simple answer is that one should respect the artist as much, if not more, than one respects oneself......
I can believe regular for the population of all artists.

Rare for Amanda and Brian.

if you include rude ticket holders,
who are not Punk Cabaret
(that is, disrespectful of a&b, and the other preformers on stage,
as well as the fans in the audience) --
it is common for a&b.

world has too many souls who don't care about others
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 11:30:13 AM »

selfishness seems to be a standard state for far many people in society
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 02:11:15 PM »

selfishness seems to be a standard state for far many people in society

it doesn't take many to make things "worse".
1% at a d.dolls concert?

btw, one of my mentors,
defined alturism as widely cast selfishness
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 05:07:29 AM »

I disagree...... selfishness requires one to not give a damn about the consequences of your actions upon other people...altruism by it's very nature (though it may well be self serving) requires a sense of empathy towards others
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2012, 05:39:40 AM »

The mentor had a Doctor in Divinity.

He defines selfishness as acting in one's self-interest.
And that some people feel that their lives are improved
when they help others.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 05:47:57 AM »

ah sefishness is indeed acting in one own interest..but it is is specifically acting PURELY in one's own interest......most behaviour is to do with with making life easier for oneself.....however empathy and forethought allow us to plan or modify behaviour in such a way as to benefit others too or provide a better general outcome in the future....why do i give spare change to some tramps and not others? I gain nothing from this....and it certainly has nothing to do with my feelings other than the empathy i feel for the person i give the money to.....
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2012, 01:49:09 PM »

You gain something from the act, or you wouldn't do it.

And small acts like this, make society a better place to be.
Which is in my interest.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2012, 01:51:12 PM »

i actually do not gain anything directly from the act......it does not make me feel better or worse or comfort my soul....I just see someone in genuine need that i know i can help in a small way.....
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

Morpheus Laughing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1115
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2012, 02:01:47 PM »

^ Subconscious preferences  ;D

The unbearable heaviness of pocket change...
Logged

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2012, 02:21:52 PM »

oooooooh you are eeeevil........actually waistcoat pockets are slightly better for a bit of loose change.......
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2012, 02:44:50 PM »

^ agree about ^^
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

Miss Sahara

  • .............
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1009
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2012, 05:09:04 PM »

i actually do not gain anything directly from the act......it does not make me feel better or worse or comfort my soul....I just see someone in genuine need that i know i can help in a small way.....


And because by doing that you perpetuate the idea of reciprocity = you hope that if you were ever to be in a position like that/needed help, others would help you out, too.
Logged

Rob

  • Now I must go, Sean Hannity is on.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2154
  • Harmless
    • My Yahoo!
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2012, 11:17:52 PM »

Exactly, Len. nonibet: And Amanda wasn't "cool" with it in any way/shape/form…
She handled it like a pro, but that doesn't mean she was happy about what went down or in any way endorses any behavior like that…

BTW, after the webcast, I thought about that very same blog……………
Here are links for those who aren't familiar:
Old Dolls' blog: http://dresdendollsdiary.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-tour-finale.html
Cross-posted on MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/afp/blog/347996482

See...that confuses me.  In April of 2009 the morning after her Coachella performance the subject of her crowd surfing came up.  Amanda mentioned something about all the groping that occured, especially in the crotchal region. 

I told her how skeeved out I was by some creeper who was all excited about grabbing a good handfull of her undercarriage.

She told me and Larissa that it was just skin and pretty much no big deal and that if that gave someone their jollies, they where more or less pretty pervy but hey, whatever, it's all good.  That's a pretty lose paraphrase but the point remains.

So, I'm left to wonder...has she changed her mind on the subject a few times, or was she just trying to be a trooper in front of Larissa and me too.

Either way, I never have been and never will be ok with such assaults and will be appaulled by it every time regardless of the reaction of the assaulted.
Logged
Everybody dies
Frustrated and sad
And that is beautiful

imaginary friend

  • Enigmagnetic
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 14913
  • up in flames
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2012, 11:20:57 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/fklOGFA5FN8" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/fklOGFA5FN8</a>


 8)

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2012, 11:24:51 PM »

I know I'm going to take flak for this, but personally I think Amanda had it coming...

When you foster that kind of atmosphere at gigs full of people too young and/or drunk to know better then you'll just have to accept the fact that some people will mistakenly think that Punk Cabaret is freedom to give her a hickey.

I'm not saying it's ok. I'm not saying you should underline the fact that it overstepped a boundary after the fact. What I am saying is that if you excite a bunch of puppies one of them will eventually try to dry hump your leg.

And with regards to the incident from 2008...Anyone going back and reading that - know that there was a reason she just couldn't be mad at that particular fan. That fan had just gone through something unspeakably awful in her life, and got Way Too Drunk in letting off some ridiculously high-pressure steam that night. Again, doesn't excuse grabbing any AFP T&A, but don't judge that particular fan too harshly...
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

Pope Totalfrog

  • AKA Arse Fez von Titty Biscuit
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 5023
  • Queen of the wild (suburban) frontier.
    • twitter
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2012, 11:48:04 PM »

I know I'm going to take flak for this, but personally I think Amanda had it coming...

When you foster that kind of atmosphere at gigs full of people too young and/or drunk to know better then you'll just have to accept the fact that some people will mistakenly think that Punk Cabaret is freedom to give her a hickey.
So what you are saying is that she was asking for it? Really?

I disagree with you. Strongly.

In the interests of not saying something nasty I am going to leave it there.
Logged
Wow. Froggie's like a superhero...
Trick question: No matter how they're prepared, and how hungry you may be, tarantulas are NOT food

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2012, 11:52:57 PM »

And with regards to the incident from 2008...Anyone going back and reading that - know that there was a reason she just couldn't be mad at that particular fan. That fan had just gone through something unspeakably awful in her life, and got Way Too Drunk in letting off some ridiculously high-pressure steam that night. Again, doesn't excuse grabbing any AFP T&A, but don't judge that particular fan too harshly...

That fan has become a friend, and still has scars from what happened to them back then.
But this doesn't excuse what the fan did.  And the fan realized it when the fan sobered up.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2012, 12:12:00 AM »

So what you are saying is that she was asking for it? Really?

I disagree with you. Strongly.

In the interests of not saying something nasty I am going to leave it there.

Oh ffs, don't twist my words. This isn't a yes i wore a slinky red thing does that mean i should spread kinda thing...

If you prance around stage extolling the virtues of love, performance art and self expression to a group of people proactively filling their heads up with fluids to impair their judgement so they can laugh over the anecdotes they don't even remember the next day - then it's a statistical inevitability that shit like this will sometimes happen.

Like I said, it's not OK...but it was bound to happen sooner or later.

That fan has become a friend, and still has scars from what happened to them back then.
But this doesn't excuse what the fan did.  And the fan realized it when the fan sobered up.

What ever happened to she-who-seemingly-must-not-be-named? Give her my facebook, next time you see her - would you, Len?

Again, I'm not excusing the actions of people who overstep the boundaries - I'm just saying that its an occupational hazard...Just like if you make a living out of giving rides to drunk people; then you had better deal with the fact that every so often someone's going to puke in the back of your cab - Not cool, but they were probably too drunk to stop themselves.
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

MelKilledAFP

  • girl anachronism.
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 402
    • Us People Are Just Poems
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2012, 12:28:11 AM »

So what you are saying is that she was asking for it? Really?

I disagree with you. Strongly.

In the interests of not saying something nasty I am going to leave it there.

Oh ffs, don't twist my words. This isn't a yes i wore a slinky red thing does that mean i should spread kinda thing...

If you prance around stage extolling the virtues of love, performance art and self expression to a group of people proactively filling their heads up with fluids to impair their judgement so they can laugh over the anecdotes they don't even remember the next day - then it's a statistical inevitability that shit like this will sometimes happen.

Like I said, it's not OK...but it was bound to happen sooner or later.

That fan has become a friend, and still has scars from what happened to them back then.
But this doesn't excuse what the fan did.  And the fan realized it when the fan sobered up.

What ever happened to she-who-seemingly-must-not-be-named? Give her my facebook, next time you see her - would you, Len?

Again, I'm not excusing the actions of people who overstep the boundaries - I'm just saying that its an occupational hazard...Just like if you make a living out of giving rides to drunk people; then you had better deal with the fact that every so often someone's going to puke in the back of your cab - Not cool, but they were probably too drunk to stop themselves.


but it shouldn't be expected.. no violation of one's boundaries, no matter what they were doing, should.  so yes, you kind of are saying she asked for it..
Logged
I would trade my mind for a windmill
for a boat made of notebook paper not covered by words
(From Windmill.. an unfinished poem by me)

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2012, 12:33:14 AM »

I just read the blog from 2008. Right with steph g about the shouts of love thing. I'm not a musician, but I feel it would piss me off having people yelling shit through my songs as it would suggest they're not paying attention. I'd also find it very creepy, and I've always admired the way Amanda deals with it. Whenever I've met Amanda at shows I've always just sort of quietly said hi and maybe a few other words and got shit signed and tried not to put upon her too much, because I figure it must get quite heavy with whole tours of devoted fans to meet and what have you. At signing desks I've mentioned various songs I've particularly enjoyed of hers, and maybe asked her a quick question or two, and she kissed me once on my birthday, but it was brief and consensual ;D Plus there are always queues and what have you so its usually just a case of "hey nice show, loved the bit where you played this song, can you please sign this thanks have fun". I later read her blog about chest rippings and how she likes it when people talk to her about what her music means to them etc and I wondered if maybe it would have been nicer to say more rather than sounding a bit indifferent, but hey, I figure it's better to underdo it than overdo it. I remember one year I went with a girl who wrote her a letter and gave it to her after the show with some chocolates, and Amanda seemed really flattered by it, so maybe that's one way of getting appreciation out there without getting into her space or time too much.
I'm not really a crazy AFP fan, anyway. I mean I like and respect her, and I like her music, but I certainly don't love her. I also think it's sad that there are people who would seek to abuse the connection Amanda tries to make with her fans, whether they mean to or not. Whether she's a particularly accessible musician or not, she's still a person with boundaries, and most of her fans are still strangers to her. In both of these cases, I wonder if the fans expected her to be okay with it, or if they were just overwhelmed by alcohol or lust or something and forgot to care.

[/3am stream of consciousness]

EDIT: actually, just remembered this one time in....2010? This (quite drunk sounding) girl kept yelling out about how she loved Amanda so much. She must have realised it was annoying people, since she then started apologising at the same time. After about the 5th "AMANDA I LOVE YOU I'M SORRY", Amanda, who was between songs, made some comment along the lines of "wow, it's like we have this whole passive-aggressive relationship I'm not even a part of". Everyone cracked up, and I thought it was a totally good call. The girl kind of shut up after that, but she still had to interrupt both Amanda's songs and speeches in between several times before Amanda even said anything about it, which is way the hell more tolerant than I could ever be ;D

this happened in 2011 as well in brisbane but the girl wouldn't shut up so mikelangelo escorted her out of the building. it was quite awful... not her getting escorted out but seeing how distraught it made amanda
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2012, 12:49:20 AM »

So what you are saying is that she was asking for it? Really?

I disagree with you. Strongly.

In the interests of not saying something nasty I am going to leave it there.

Oh ffs, don't twist my words. This isn't a yes i wore a slinky red thing does that mean i should spread kinda thing...

If you prance around stage extolling the virtues of love, performance art and self expression to a group of people proactively filling their heads up with fluids to impair their judgement so they can laugh over the anecdotes they don't even remember the next day - then it's a statistical inevitability that shit like this will sometimes happen.

Like I said, it's not OK...but it was bound to happen sooner or later.

That fan has become a friend, and still has scars from what happened to them back then.
But this doesn't excuse what the fan did.  And the fan realized it when the fan sobered up.

What ever happened to she-who-seemingly-must-not-be-named? Give her my facebook, next time you see her - would you, Len?

Again, I'm not excusing the actions of people who overstep the boundaries - I'm just saying that its an occupational hazard...Just like if you make a living out of giving rides to drunk people; then you had better deal with the fact that every so often someone's going to puke in the back of your cab - Not cool, but they were probably too drunk to stop themselves.

actually that's exactly what you're saying, there is no twisting of your words...

and this sooner or later comment... well it shouldn't be like that. people should have self control.
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2012, 12:53:25 AM »

but it shouldn't be expected.. no violation of one's boundaries, no matter what they were doing, should.  so yes, you kind of are saying she asked for it..

I lost my job late last year. I'm on social security, so lately I've been torrenting quite often. That means browsing torrent sites. That means LiveJasmin.com popups with eastern european women shaking their so-barely-covered-the-hair-is-poking-out-from-under-the-gusset asses in my face on a live stream.

I'm sure they're beautiful people on the inside, just trying to make a living, but some of those hairy asses are wretch-worthy. It's a violation. It's a distinctly sexualized subversion of my activity. But who am I to complain? Torrent sites have to cover hosting costs through aggressive and mostly illicit advertising.

It goes with the territory, even though I didn't ask for it.
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2012, 12:56:29 AM »

well it shouldn't be like that. people should have self control.

never said it should, but just like cam sex popups on websites, alcohol is a revenue stream for venues.

Alcohol makes people lose inhibitions and later self control. That's the very appeal of alcohol.

Goes with the territory
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

MelKilledAFP

  • girl anachronism.
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 402
    • Us People Are Just Poems
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2012, 02:11:48 AM »

well it shouldn't be like that. people should have self control.

never said it should, but just like cam sex popups on websites, alcohol is a revenue stream for venues.

Alcohol makes people lose inhibitions and later self control. That's the very appeal of alcohol.

Goes with the territory


you can get this thing called a pop up blocker, then pop ups are gone, it's a bit 1990s, but it's effective. 

and funny enough, the guy who assaulted me last year actually claimed being drunk as a defence. the "i'm so wasted I couldn't control myself" excuse is just that. an excuse for shitty behaviour. it's about basic respect and leaving someone the fucking hell alone to do what's their fucking job, or in my case, walk down the street.
Logged
I would trade my mind for a windmill
for a boat made of notebook paper not covered by words
(From Windmill.. an unfinished poem by me)

Pope Totalfrog

  • AKA Arse Fez von Titty Biscuit
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 5023
  • Queen of the wild (suburban) frontier.
    • twitter
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2012, 02:52:45 AM »

@Vipers just so you know I called you a douchecanoe in a discussion thread on FB. I still wholeheartedly disagree with your position in this thread but I also know I shouldn't call people names behind their back.

I apologize for the name calling but not for being angry in the first place.

You have your position and I have mine. I don't feel like having a deep philosophical discussion about it. No means no. Invading someone's space and continuing to invade it even after they have asked you to stop is wrong. Telling someone that they should expect something like that to happen to them because they are behaving in a certain fashion is wrong.
Logged
Wow. Froggie's like a superhero...
Trick question: No matter how they're prepared, and how hungry you may be, tarantulas are NOT food

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 02:55:52 AM »

you can get this thing called a pop up blocker, then pop ups are gone, it's a bit 1990s, but it's effective. 

and funny enough, the guy who assaulted me last year actually claimed being drunk as a defence. the "i'm so wasted I couldn't control myself" excuse is just that. an excuse for shitty behaviour. it's about basic respect and leaving someone the fucking hell alone to do what's their fucking job, or in my case, walk down the street.

I just watched the incident. By accident. I was listening to the show in a minimized window and heard something going on...I also noticed that two minutes after the incident that she rubbed her crotch on some guys head. He certainly looked taken aback by her doing it, so I'm guessing no explicit consent was given. Perhaps he wasn't just a random audience member, perhaps she knew him. Perhaps she guessed that he wouldn't mind and consent was implied, or perhaps it was just a bit of fun.

And perhaps the same is true of drunk hickey girl.

For the last time, I'm not saying she deserved it because she's a WHORE!!!! I'm saying that it was bound to happen. If you interact with enough drunk people for long enough someone is eventually going to do something dickish. And if you make your living doing that then suck it up when someone eventually does.
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2012, 03:00:46 AM »

@Vipers just so you know I called you a douchecanoe in a discussion thread on FB. I still wholeheartedly disagree with your position in this thread but I also know I shouldn't call people names behind their back.

The thread on FB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/184266924984681/233329480078425/
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2012, 03:08:48 AM »

@Vipers just so you know I called you a douchecanoe in a discussion thread on FB. I still wholeheartedly disagree with your position in this thread but I also know I shouldn't call people names behind their back.

The thread on FB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/184266924984681/233329480078425/

I never chalked you up as a shit-stirrer Len lol
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2012, 03:17:01 AM »

Invading someone's space and continuing to invade it even after they have asked you to stop is wrong. Telling someone that they should expect something like that to happen to them because they are behaving in a certain fashion is wrong.

I just think I have things in proportion. It's a drunken hickey, not an unsolicited anal fist fuck.

You certainly wouldn't say "She is kinda cute though" about a rapist elbow deep in your rectum, would you?

twunt  :coolsmiley:
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2012, 03:55:50 AM »

Invading someone's space and continuing to invade it even after they have asked you to stop is wrong. Telling someone that they should expect something like that to happen to them because they are behaving in a certain fashion is wrong.

I just think I have things in proportion. It's a drunken hickey, not an unsolicited anal fist fuck.

You certainly wouldn't say "She is kinda cute though" about a rapist elbow deep in your rectum, would you?

twunt  :coolsmiley:

a violation is a violation... if it's something that made her feel uncomfortable its not up to you to judge how severe it is
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2012, 04:01:13 AM »

you can get this thing called a pop up blocker, then pop ups are gone, it's a bit 1990s, but it's effective. 

and funny enough, the guy who assaulted me last year actually claimed being drunk as a defence. the "i'm so wasted I couldn't control myself" excuse is just that. an excuse for shitty behaviour. it's about basic respect and leaving someone the fucking hell alone to do what's their fucking job, or in my case, walk down the street.

I just watched the incident. By accident. I was listening to the show in a minimized window and heard something going on...I also noticed that two minutes after the incident that she rubbed her crotch on some guys head. He certainly looked taken aback by her doing it, so I'm guessing no explicit consent was given. Perhaps he wasn't just a random audience member, perhaps she knew him. Perhaps she guessed that he wouldn't mind and consent was implied, or perhaps it was just a bit of fun.

And perhaps the same is true of drunk hickey girl.

For the last time, I'm not saying she deserved it because she's a WHORE!!!! I'm saying that it was bound to happen. If you interact with enough drunk people for long enough someone is eventually going to do something dickish. And if you make your living doing that then suck it up when someone eventually does.

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2012, 08:13:19 AM »

@Vipers just so you know I called you a douchecanoe in a discussion thread on FB. I still wholeheartedly disagree with your position in this thread but I also know I shouldn't call people names behind their back.

The thread on FB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/184266924984681/233329480078425/

I never chalked you up as a shit-stirrer Len lol

my motivations are to:

* let you contribute over there, if you wish
* let this community do so, too
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2012, 01:20:09 PM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.

my motivations are to:

* let you contribute over there, if you wish
* let this community do so, too

I know I know, I was just teasing  ^-^
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2012, 01:37:54 PM »

I think people have forgotten that occasionally there are people on here who will intelligently play devils advocate and employ a sense of humour..........
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3454
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2012, 05:57:58 PM »

i've been bothered for years now about the way i've noticed certain members of the fanbase interpreted amanda's openness and honesty as an open invitation to her body. i can remember back in i think 2007 or 2008 arguing about this and basically being told that amanda didn't mind and if she did then why would she write blogs about her vagina?

i had been upset/disturbed by comments i'd noticed i think just around the shadowbox. i don't remember anything specific, just that a lot of people seemed to feel really comfortable discussing really intimate details of her body and in very casual or lustful ways. i understand that this is normal for a celebrity, but i think it was because it was on a place she reads that bothered me, and there were probably similar things on her blog comments. i think part of the reason it all bothered/annoyed me so much is that i remember a lot (maybe even all?) of it was coming from gay males. the thing about that is that it was only happening because it could; it wasn't even really based on sexual desire (please no sexuality-is-a-sliding-scale discussion, that's not what i'm talking about) and so it therefore felt like it was "just because." like people were only taking these liberties because they felt like they could and therefore deserved to.

i dunno, i guess my point is that yes, there is a definite line that is blurred more with amanda than with other artists and i agree that it's a problem. not on amanda's part, obviously, but i do agree not that she's "asking for it" but just that, yes, because of the nature of her art and personality, the line happens to appear blurred.
Logged
Quote
I do not want to live to archive my own life.
I see it everywhere around me, especially with the popularity of web diaries, forums, and cell phones that take pictures.
I do not want to fall into the subtle trap of truly believing I Blog Therefore I Am.
amanda, 2005-04-15

meanwhile

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2012, 08:42:19 PM »

If you've been upstairs at the Enmore, you'll know that where Amanda was standing was bloody close to the edge, with nothing to break a 8m(-ish) fall. It wasn't a great place to have that happen. I don't think she would have been as effected by it if it had been on the ground (not that she freaked out or anything, just looked a little shaky when she got back to the stage with Brian). It was a bad place for it to happen.
Logged

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2012, 12:29:21 AM »

If you've been upstairs at the Enmore, you'll know that where Amanda was standing was bloody close to the edge, with nothing to break a 8m(-ish) fall. It wasn't a great place to have that happen. I don't think she would have been as effected by it if it had been on the ground (not that she freaked out or anything, just looked a little shaky when she got back to the stage with Brian). It was a bad place for it to happen.

that was what i was worried about watching it happen
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2012, 12:35:26 AM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.

so do you still think she should just suck it up or is she entitled to be a little shaken by it?
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3454
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2012, 01:43:53 AM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.

so do you still think she should just suck it up or is she entitled to be a little shaken by it?

i honestly don't think vg is saying that, considering he's been reiterating his point for a couple of posts now and still has never said that. i think vg is literally just making a comment about what his/her observations about how certain aspects which are relatively unique to amanda's art/personality/behavior have impacted the situation and created an environment in which it was more likely to happen. that being in opposition to a more "typical" environment of a different artist in which it would be less likely to happen due to said artist lacking the certain unique characteristics of amanda's. there are certain assumptions being made about what vg may or may not be implying, and while they're not necessarily giant leaps, they are still leaps.

that being said, i don't think the uniqueness of the situation has any impact on whether or not the assault was right or wrong. i don't think it takes away amanda's right to be upset or to be vocal about being upset. but for the purposes of the discussion, being clear about the things that could have specifically allowed this incident to happen is not pointless.
Logged
Quote
I do not want to live to archive my own life.
I see it everywhere around me, especially with the popularity of web diaries, forums, and cell phones that take pictures.
I do not want to fall into the subtle trap of truly believing I Blog Therefore I Am.
amanda, 2005-04-15

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2012, 01:46:34 AM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.

so do you still think she should just suck it up or is she entitled to be a little shaken by it?

Amanda can react to this any way she wants.  

What's important is that she aware that it can happen.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2012, 04:30:24 AM »

I think this has always been part and parcel of celebrity.... ( did not David Bowie even write a song mentioning the rabid adoration and destructive intent of fans?) it does not make it right and I am pretty sure anyone who has become a public figure always has this at the back opf their mind and it explains why so many "famous" people are uncomfortable with allowing their real lives to overlap with their stage or screen (etc) persona....Amanda is quite uniqwue in some ways in that she has always been very comfortable with dealing with random members of the public and this may well be to do with the years of statueing.....a job that constantly runs the risk of random groping or abuse from the public...the pay off being that you get to interact with so many actually nice people in an interesting way.....the sad thing is that if this sort of fan abuse happens too often it is inevitable that faninteraction may become more controlled and distant.... That being said...Amanda is a strong enough person to cvarry on regardl;ess and it is interesting that these sort of fan assaults tend to happen only at major gigs and not at the much more intimate ninja gigs where there is NO security or barriers or often even a stage!
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2012, 01:20:13 PM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.
my motivations are to:

* let you contribute over there, if you wish
* let this community do so, too
I know I know, I was just teasing  ^-^

apologies.  there was an "lol" up there  : - )
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2012, 01:34:37 PM »

Exactly, Len. nonibet: And Amanda wasn't "cool" with it in any way/shape/form…
She handled it like a pro, but that doesn't mean she was happy about what went down or in any way endorses any behavior like that…

BTW, after the webcast, I thought about that very same blog……………
Here are links for those who aren't familiar:
Old Dolls' blog: http://dresdendollsdiary.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-tour-finale.html
Cross-posted on MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/afp/blog/347996482
See...that confuses me.  In April of 2009 the morning after her Coachella performance the subject of her crowd surfing came up.  Amanda mentioned something about all the groping that occured, especially in the crotchal region.  

I told her how skeeved out I was by some creeper who was all excited about grabbing a good handfull of her undercarriage.

She told me and Larissa that it was just skin and pretty much no big deal and that if that gave someone their jollies, they where more or less pretty pervy but hey, whatever, it's all good.  That's a pretty lose paraphrase but the point remains.

So, I'm left to wonder...has she changed her mind on the subject a few times, or was she just trying to be a trooper in front of Larissa and me too.

Either way, I never have been and never will be ok with such assaults and will be appaulled by it every time regardless of the reaction of the assaulted.

Rob:

My take on this:

* the 2008 Norva incident was very quick.  No physical injury.  
But dis-respectful, startling, unexpected, and happened really
near the top of a staircase, Amanda was about to walk down.

* the 2012 Sydney incident left a physcial unasked for injury, as well
as dis-respectful, startling, unexpected, and at the edge of a balcony.

Crowd-surfing Amanda chooses to do comes with the knowledge,
she is likely to be both accidentally and purposely groped.  
And enough of the people holding her up, are working to keep her safe.
So she understands what she is buying into.

But Amanda is NOT OK with being injured.  
She is NOT OK with the dis-respect.  
She is NOT OK with the startling unexpectedness of it.
She is NOT OK with it happening in dangerous locations.

Questions?

I haven't talked with Amanda or her staff about this,
but it's my take on this,
from being a long term follower and fan.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

VipersGratitude

  • The "fuck you" me
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 360
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2012, 01:36:41 PM »

Jesse and Raliel get it.

Jesse - Yes, there's an intimacy, an unabashed honesty in Amanda's interaction with fans. And I just don't think she should be surprised when that comes back and bites her in the ass, or the neck. Ass hickey - that's a ticket I could have boarded the sympathy train with.

Raliel - This place used to be stimulating. You used to get some really intelligent discussion here. But now, frankly, all I see are girls wallowing in how decadent they are by talking publicly about their periods (true decadency is wallowing in your period), and the boys just seem to discuss how fabulously homosexual they are. Now that's a very broad brush, and not entirely accurate, but it does indicate just how banal this place is to me now. This place needs decent discussions again. If you have an opinion tell my why you have that opinion, don't just vomit up the same shit everyone else is saying. I will always happily play the villian - both in and outside the bedroom  :coolsmiley:
Logged
var meaningOfLife:int = 13.37*Math.PI;

if( meaningOfLife != 42 ) LifeManager.dispatchEvent(new LifeEvent(LifeEvent.END));

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2012, 02:06:09 PM »

^ Good points.

The sbox highlights for me these days are when they are on tour,
and when really good discussion happens.

I also make connections for others,
and help access the archive of the past.

Otherwise, it's hanging with friends, which is OK,
but less Punk Cabaret.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3454
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2012, 05:36:09 AM »

This place used to be stimulating. You used to get some really intelligent discussion here. But now, frankly, all I see are girls wallowing in how decadent they are by talking publicly about their periods (true decadency is wallowing in your period), and the boys just seem to discuss how fabulously homosexual they are.

Strange. I'm noticing almost... a parallel here.  :coolsmiley:

i've noticed the same thing though, but hadn't been able to express it that concisely. that's a very, very accurate (as far as i'm concerned) representation of the decline.
Logged
Quote
I do not want to live to archive my own life.
I see it everywhere around me, especially with the popularity of web diaries, forums, and cell phones that take pictures.
I do not want to fall into the subtle trap of truly believing I Blog Therefore I Am.
amanda, 2005-04-15

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2012, 07:15:20 AM »

Amanda's blog on this incident is out:
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/15819639194/anatomy-of-a-hickey

Seems the bottom line is:

* Ask

* Be prepared to do it in a crazy artist manner

* She prefers stomach hickies

* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }

Rob: you were more right about this than I was.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

slyvia k

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6928
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2012, 07:22:44 AM »

Amanda's blog on this incident is out:
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/15819639194/anatomy-of-a-hickey

Seems the bottom line is:

* Ask

* Be prepared to do it in a crazy artist manner

* She prefers stomach hickies

* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }

Rob: you were more right about this than I was.
I was a bit surprised reading the blog... but then it makes sense, seeing it in an Amanda light.
Logged

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2012, 07:29:35 AM »

Amanda's blog on this incident is out:
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/15819639194/anatomy-of-a-hickey

Seems the bottom line is:

* Ask

* Be prepared to do it in a crazy artist manner

* She prefers stomach hickies

* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }

Rob: you were more right about this than I was.
I was a bit surprised reading the blog... but then it makes sense, seeing it in an Amanda light.

The major point (that we all got) was
Amanda wants to be asked,
not assaulted.
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

The Angel Raliel

  • ...looked the other way when a third of them fell
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7620
  • ...devourer of scones
    • Raliel Art
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2012, 07:40:13 AM »

I suspect this is Amanda making light of an uncomfortable situation in a creative and positive way...... laughing it off as it were..... while re-assuring fans that the random and intimate moments that Amanda revels in will never be stopped by a mere love-bite....
Logged
One should always be a little improbable.

@raliel

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2012, 08:07:09 AM »

I suspect this is Amanda making light of an uncomfortable situation in a creative and positive way...... laughing it off as it were..... while re-assuring fans that the random and intimate moments that Amanda revels in will never be stopped by a mere love-bite....

what my use of seems above implied

i suspect that Amanda,
being human,
is of several minds about this,
with some internal conflict among them
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

insignifikunt

  • Super Fan
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 942
  • ...Strength through Music...
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2012, 10:52:15 AM »

you know she probably wouldn't have cared at all if the girl had just stopped when she tried to stop her... or had moved to her belly. i also think it was the fact she was drunk that is the problem because people typically become unpredictable when drunk... amanda seemed far more cautious about crowd surfing through the audience at the adelaide show than the others because all the people near her were very drunk. she even said she didn't know whether or not to trust them .... but again it could all be part of the show...
Logged
...Sing for the teachers who told you that you couldn't sing...

Astica

  • Ghost
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3612
  • Purportedly decadent.
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2012, 02:43:03 AM »

Yeah, it definitely seems from her blog that it's not the physical intimacy or even possibly sexual nature of the hickey itself that disturbed Amanda so much as the loss of power, which is understandable.
Logged
Quote from: Indja
I mean really, my sins are my own - i don't wnat some cunt to swoop in and wipe the slate clean. it is my fucking slate. fuck offf.

Quote from: N.U.
Tricorns are fuckbanana awesome.

Agonistes

  • discocunt
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4289
    • blog
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2012, 10:48:07 AM »



* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }


i knew she was a top.
Logged

lentower

  • if you see me at a show (or elsewhere), please come over & say hi
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10452
  • this is a real photo of me. thanks sheri hausey!
    • len's web sight
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2012, 11:22:33 AM »


* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }


i knew she was a top.

how can one every NOT think this!?!
Logged
getting started:
BOX-RULES (please read...

further back:
Our forum before this one...

Agonistes

  • discocunt
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4289
    • blog
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2012, 12:22:56 PM »


* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }


i knew she was a top.

how can one every NOT think this!?!

people can fool you.  when you get them home, a lot of big personalities will cry for you to fuck them first.   ;D
Logged

imaginary friend

  • Enigmagnetic
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 14913
  • up in flames
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2012, 03:02:58 PM »


* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }


i knew she was a top.

how can one every NOT think this!?!

people can fool you.  when you get them home, a lot of big personalities will cry for you to fuck them first.   ;D

+ 10,000

N.U.

  • Initials... OF DOOM!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2258
Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2012, 02:07:20 PM »

Oh my god! he did NOT do that! Well I never...
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [All]   Go Up