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Author Topic: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.  (Read 11803 times)

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BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2012, 05:57:58 PM »

i've been bothered for years now about the way i've noticed certain members of the fanbase interpreted amanda's openness and honesty as an open invitation to her body. i can remember back in i think 2007 or 2008 arguing about this and basically being told that amanda didn't mind and if she did then why would she write blogs about her vagina?

i had been upset/disturbed by comments i'd noticed i think just around the shadowbox. i don't remember anything specific, just that a lot of people seemed to feel really comfortable discussing really intimate details of her body and in very casual or lustful ways. i understand that this is normal for a celebrity, but i think it was because it was on a place she reads that bothered me, and there were probably similar things on her blog comments. i think part of the reason it all bothered/annoyed me so much is that i remember a lot (maybe even all?) of it was coming from gay males. the thing about that is that it was only happening because it could; it wasn't even really based on sexual desire (please no sexuality-is-a-sliding-scale discussion, that's not what i'm talking about) and so it therefore felt like it was "just because." like people were only taking these liberties because they felt like they could and therefore deserved to.

i dunno, i guess my point is that yes, there is a definite line that is blurred more with amanda than with other artists and i agree that it's a problem. not on amanda's part, obviously, but i do agree not that she's "asking for it" but just that, yes, because of the nature of her art and personality, the line happens to appear blurred.
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I do not want to live to archive my own life.
I see it everywhere around me, especially with the popularity of web diaries, forums, and cell phones that take pictures.
I do not want to fall into the subtle trap of truly believing I Blog Therefore I Am.
amanda, 2005-04-15

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2012, 08:42:19 PM »

If you've been upstairs at the Enmore, you'll know that where Amanda was standing was bloody close to the edge, with nothing to break a 8m(-ish) fall. It wasn't a great place to have that happen. I don't think she would have been as effected by it if it had been on the ground (not that she freaked out or anything, just looked a little shaky when she got back to the stage with Brian). It was a bad place for it to happen.
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insignifikunt

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2012, 12:29:21 AM »

If you've been upstairs at the Enmore, you'll know that where Amanda was standing was bloody close to the edge, with nothing to break a 8m(-ish) fall. It wasn't a great place to have that happen. I don't think she would have been as effected by it if it had been on the ground (not that she freaked out or anything, just looked a little shaky when she got back to the stage with Brian). It was a bad place for it to happen.

that was what i was worried about watching it happen
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insignifikunt

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2012, 12:35:26 AM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.

so do you still think she should just suck it up or is she entitled to be a little shaken by it?
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BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2012, 01:43:53 AM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.

so do you still think she should just suck it up or is she entitled to be a little shaken by it?

i honestly don't think vg is saying that, considering he's been reiterating his point for a couple of posts now and still has never said that. i think vg is literally just making a comment about what his/her observations about how certain aspects which are relatively unique to amanda's art/personality/behavior have impacted the situation and created an environment in which it was more likely to happen. that being in opposition to a more "typical" environment of a different artist in which it would be less likely to happen due to said artist lacking the certain unique characteristics of amanda's. there are certain assumptions being made about what vg may or may not be implying, and while they're not necessarily giant leaps, they are still leaps.

that being said, i don't think the uniqueness of the situation has any impact on whether or not the assault was right or wrong. i don't think it takes away amanda's right to be upset or to be vocal about being upset. but for the purposes of the discussion, being clear about the things that could have specifically allowed this incident to happen is not pointless.
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I do not want to live to archive my own life.
I see it everywhere around me, especially with the popularity of web diaries, forums, and cell phones that take pictures.
I do not want to fall into the subtle trap of truly believing I Blog Therefore I Am.
amanda, 2005-04-15

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2012, 01:46:34 AM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.

so do you still think she should just suck it up or is she entitled to be a little shaken by it?

Amanda can react to this any way she wants.  

What's important is that she aware that it can happen.
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The Angel Raliel

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2012, 04:30:24 AM »

I think this has always been part and parcel of celebrity.... ( did not David Bowie even write a song mentioning the rabid adoration and destructive intent of fans?) it does not make it right and I am pretty sure anyone who has become a public figure always has this at the back opf their mind and it explains why so many "famous" people are uncomfortable with allowing their real lives to overlap with their stage or screen (etc) persona....Amanda is quite uniqwue in some ways in that she has always been very comfortable with dealing with random members of the public and this may well be to do with the years of statueing.....a job that constantly runs the risk of random groping or abuse from the public...the pay off being that you get to interact with so many actually nice people in an interesting way.....the sad thing is that if this sort of fan abuse happens too often it is inevitable that faninteraction may become more controlled and distant.... That being said...Amanda is a strong enough person to cvarry on regardl;ess and it is interesting that these sort of fan assaults tend to happen only at major gigs and not at the much more intimate ninja gigs where there is NO security or barriers or often even a stage!
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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2012, 01:20:13 PM »

no one should ever be expected to "suck it up" when someone violates their personal space, no matter who that person is. sure we are talking a hickey here, not violent rape, but it's still invading someone's personal space and it is not amanda's responsibility to control other people's actions, people are only responsible for themselves (and parents for their children to an extent) so why the fuck should she just be expected "suck it up" when someone acts badly towards her?

What I'm saying is that you're marketing your brand through a cult of personality, and the brand is ,in fact, your very own name. If you have actively engage your fans through gig participation, webcasts, forums, blog posts, and constant tweets detailing the minutiae of your life then it's simply inevitable that some drunken fan is going to lose perspective and slobber all over you.

With that marketing strategy she should have seen it coming...but given the fact it only happens every 3-4years then, to me, it's an indication of how awesome and well-balanced her fans actually are.
my motivations are to:

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* let this community do so, too
I know I know, I was just teasing  ^-^

apologies.  there was an "lol" up there  : - )
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lentower

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2012, 01:34:37 PM »

Exactly, Len. nonibet: And Amanda wasn't "cool" with it in any way/shape/form…
She handled it like a pro, but that doesn't mean she was happy about what went down or in any way endorses any behavior like that…

BTW, after the webcast, I thought about that very same blog……………
Here are links for those who aren't familiar:
Old Dolls' blog: http://dresdendollsdiary.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-tour-finale.html
Cross-posted on MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/afp/blog/347996482
See...that confuses me.  In April of 2009 the morning after her Coachella performance the subject of her crowd surfing came up.  Amanda mentioned something about all the groping that occured, especially in the crotchal region.  

I told her how skeeved out I was by some creeper who was all excited about grabbing a good handfull of her undercarriage.

She told me and Larissa that it was just skin and pretty much no big deal and that if that gave someone their jollies, they where more or less pretty pervy but hey, whatever, it's all good.  That's a pretty lose paraphrase but the point remains.

So, I'm left to wonder...has she changed her mind on the subject a few times, or was she just trying to be a trooper in front of Larissa and me too.

Either way, I never have been and never will be ok with such assaults and will be appaulled by it every time regardless of the reaction of the assaulted.

Rob:

My take on this:

* the 2008 Norva incident was very quick.  No physical injury.  
But dis-respectful, startling, unexpected, and happened really
near the top of a staircase, Amanda was about to walk down.

* the 2012 Sydney incident left a physcial unasked for injury, as well
as dis-respectful, startling, unexpected, and at the edge of a balcony.

Crowd-surfing Amanda chooses to do comes with the knowledge,
she is likely to be both accidentally and purposely groped.  
And enough of the people holding her up, are working to keep her safe.
So she understands what she is buying into.

But Amanda is NOT OK with being injured.  
She is NOT OK with the dis-respect.  
She is NOT OK with the startling unexpectedness of it.
She is NOT OK with it happening in dangerous locations.

Questions?

I haven't talked with Amanda or her staff about this,
but it's my take on this,
from being a long term follower and fan.
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VipersGratitude

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2012, 01:36:41 PM »

Jesse and Raliel get it.

Jesse - Yes, there's an intimacy, an unabashed honesty in Amanda's interaction with fans. And I just don't think she should be surprised when that comes back and bites her in the ass, or the neck. Ass hickey - that's a ticket I could have boarded the sympathy train with.

Raliel - This place used to be stimulating. You used to get some really intelligent discussion here. But now, frankly, all I see are girls wallowing in how decadent they are by talking publicly about their periods (true decadency is wallowing in your period), and the boys just seem to discuss how fabulously homosexual they are. Now that's a very broad brush, and not entirely accurate, but it does indicate just how banal this place is to me now. This place needs decent discussions again. If you have an opinion tell my why you have that opinion, don't just vomit up the same shit everyone else is saying. I will always happily play the villian - both in and outside the bedroom  :coolsmiley:
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lentower

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2012, 02:06:09 PM »

^ Good points.

The sbox highlights for me these days are when they are on tour,
and when really good discussion happens.

I also make connections for others,
and help access the archive of the past.

Otherwise, it's hanging with friends, which is OK,
but less Punk Cabaret.
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BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2012, 05:36:09 AM »

This place used to be stimulating. You used to get some really intelligent discussion here. But now, frankly, all I see are girls wallowing in how decadent they are by talking publicly about their periods (true decadency is wallowing in your period), and the boys just seem to discuss how fabulously homosexual they are.

Strange. I'm noticing almost... a parallel here.  :coolsmiley:

i've noticed the same thing though, but hadn't been able to express it that concisely. that's a very, very accurate (as far as i'm concerned) representation of the decline.
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I do not want to live to archive my own life.
I see it everywhere around me, especially with the popularity of web diaries, forums, and cell phones that take pictures.
I do not want to fall into the subtle trap of truly believing I Blog Therefore I Am.
amanda, 2005-04-15

lentower

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2012, 07:15:20 AM »

Amanda's blog on this incident is out:
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/15819639194/anatomy-of-a-hickey

Seems the bottom line is:

* Ask

* Be prepared to do it in a crazy artist manner

* She prefers stomach hickies

* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }

Rob: you were more right about this than I was.
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slyvia k

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2012, 07:22:44 AM »

Amanda's blog on this incident is out:
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/15819639194/anatomy-of-a-hickey

Seems the bottom line is:

* Ask

* Be prepared to do it in a crazy artist manner

* She prefers stomach hickies

* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }

Rob: you were more right about this than I was.
I was a bit surprised reading the blog... but then it makes sense, seeing it in an Amanda light.
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lentower

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Re: Amanda is NOT OK with fan assaults.
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2012, 07:29:35 AM »

Amanda's blog on this incident is out:
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/15819639194/anatomy-of-a-hickey

Seems the bottom line is:

* Ask

* Be prepared to do it in a crazy artist manner

* She prefers stomach hickies

* Let Amanda retain the leading role ; - }

Rob: you were more right about this than I was.
I was a bit surprised reading the blog... but then it makes sense, seeing it in an Amanda light.

The major point (that we all got) was
Amanda wants to be asked,
not assaulted.
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