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[lentower]

Am I the only person who's uncomfortable with how Amanda got that hickey at the Sydney gig?  To me it seemed to be just on the wrong side of sexual assault...I mean, that girl actually left a mark on Amanda's body by performing an uninvited sexual act.  That just icks me completely.  

I get that Amanda is open and loving and joyful and loves her fans a lot and she just givesgivesgives to us.  But there's still a line and, for me, this incident crossed it.  

*** text deleted ***

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Amanda, if you're genuinely cool with this happening, then that's awesome and I'm glad.  But if you're not, then I hope that you are brave enough to say so.  No one will think any less of you for calling out a fan on bad behaviour.  You are not our bitch.  

(Disclaimer to all of the above: This is just my opinion.  In no way should this be taken as "Amanda must feel this way" etc).

What this gal did was wrong.

Amanda's tweets on this, as well as the picture she tweeted, made it clear:
Amanda is NOT OK with this.

A similar incident happened at the last concert of the Winter Tour four years ago.  Mid-Jan 2008. At the Norva.  On a balcony.  No marks.  And it was very quick.  I saw the fan go over, and it seemed funny, but my view angle didn't let me see the actual assault from 20 feet or so away.  Was by a well-known fan from the early days, who was too drunk to know better.  Apologies were offered and accepted.  Amanda blogged about it.  The blog should still be there.  
Amanda was NOT OK about this earlier time either.  

These are the only two fan assaults I know of.  

When I've seen Amanda do these audience walk performances, she always often has had a member of her tour staff (not house security (no way, someone who does not understand Amanda and her fans can provide this kind of security)) accompany her.  They were there for her EDITboth these times at the Norva,endEDIT doing the right thing as subtlety as possible.

EDIT: I've been told by a fan present, that Jaron wasn't shadow escorting Amanda when the succubus struck in Sydney, but heard her cry, and made light speed to help her.  endEDIT

[indeciSEAN]

Exactly, Len. nonibet: And Amanda wasn't "cool" with it in any way/shape/form…
She handled it like a pro, but that doesn't mean she was happy about what went down or in any way endorses any behavior like that…

BTW, after the webcast, I thought about that very same blog……………
Here are links for those who aren't familiar:
Old Dolls' blog: http://dresdendollsdiary.blogspot.com/2008/01/us-tour-finale.html
Cross-posted on MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/afp/blog/347996482

[The Angel Raliel]

this seems to happen on a regular basis in one form or another.... i recall a stolen uke...that was returned after the parties involved woke up the following morning....simple answer is that one should respect the artist as much, if not more, than one respects oneself......

[lentower]

Could someone posts amanda's tweets URLs, as well as the URL to amanda's tweeted pic.
Will save me the trouble. 
(There has been an awful lot of spam to clear today.)

And if you want,
the twitter exchange this afternoon between her and Neil,
including the second picture.  It's full of love.

[Pope Totalfrog]

Amanda handled it like a total professional. If someone latched on to me like that they would have ended up going over the balcony.

I mean that had to hurt. I'm sure A was a bit shaken up once the show was over. How could you not be?

From Twitter -
https://twitter.com/amandapalmer/statuses/155630643844358144


https://twitter.com/amandapalmer/statuses/155634180045279234  

....i feel thrilled yet violated. thank god for @jaronsound who pulled the succubus off. could have got ugly, no? moby.to/d9to0a

EDIT fix moby.to link so it's clickable -lentower

[Hayley Fiasco!]

I also recalled the earlier uncomfortable violation from 2007/08 when I saw the tweets about what happened last night... amanda's been going into the crowd and directly meeting/interacting with fans one-on-one by the THOUSANDS. It's really disappointing (to say the least) that something like this happened (again, none the less). Some people do things without thinking or realizing that they're not good ideas... whether they are drunk or not.

I guess it's just important to be conscious of the fact that Amanda, your fellow concert attendees, some random dude on the street etc. are all PEOPLE and it should be common sense to respect their space and not violate or threaten their comfort, no matter what you assume would be wild and crazy and exciting.

[lentower]

totalfrog & indeciSEAN:

THANX for digging out the links!

[lentower]

this seems to happen on a regular basis in one form or another.... i recall a stolen uke...that was returned after the parties involved woke up the following morning....simple answer is that one should respect the artist as much, if not more, than one respects oneself......

I can believe regular for the population of all artists.

Rare for Amanda and Brian.

[Astica]

I just read the blog from 2008. Right with steph g about the shouts of love thing. I'm not a musician, but I feel it would piss me off having people yelling shit through my songs as it would suggest they're not paying attention. I'd also find it very creepy, and I've always admired the way Amanda deals with it. Whenever I've met Amanda at shows I've always just sort of quietly said hi and maybe a few other words and got shit signed and tried not to put upon her too much, because I figure it must get quite heavy with whole tours of devoted fans to meet and what have you. At signing desks I've mentioned various songs I've particularly enjoyed of hers, and maybe asked her a quick question or two, and she kissed me once on my birthday, but it was brief and consensual Plus there are always queues and what have you so its usually just a case of "hey nice show, loved the bit where you played this song, can you please sign this thanks have fun". I later read her blog about chest rippings and how she likes it when people talk to her about what her music means to them etc and I wondered if maybe it would have been nicer to say more rather than sounding a bit indifferent, but hey, I figure it's better to underdo it than overdo it. I remember one year I went with a girl who wrote her a letter and gave it to her after the show with some chocolates, and Amanda seemed really flattered by it, so maybe that's one way of getting appreciation out there without getting into her space or time too much.
I'm not really a crazy AFP fan, anyway. I mean I like and respect her, and I like her music, but I certainly don't love her. I also think it's sad that there are people who would seek to abuse the connection Amanda tries to make with her fans, whether they mean to or not. Whether she's a particularly accessible musician or not, she's still a person with boundaries, and most of her fans are still strangers to her. In both of these cases, I wonder if the fans expected her to be okay with it, or if they were just overwhelmed by alcohol or lust or something and forgot to care.

[/3am stream of consciousness]

EDIT: actually, just remembered this one time in....2010? This (quite drunk sounding) girl kept yelling out about how she loved Amanda so much. She must have realised it was annoying people, since she then started apologising at the same time. After about the 5th "AMANDA I LOVE YOU I'M SORRY", Amanda, who was between songs, made some comment along the lines of "wow, it's like we have this whole passive-aggressive relationship I'm not even a part of". Everyone cracked up, and I thought it was a totally good call. The girl kind of shut up after that, but she still had to interrupt both Amanda's songs and speeches in between several times before Amanda even said anything about it, which is way the hell more tolerant than I could ever be

[slyvia k]

EDIT: actually, just remembered this one time in....2010? This (quite drunk sounding) girl kept yelling out about how she loved Amanda so much. She must have realised it was annoying people, since she then started apologising at the same time. After about the 5th "AMANDA I LOVE YOU I'M SORRY", Amanda, who was between songs, made some comment along the lines of "wow, it's like we have this whole passive-aggressive relationship I'm not even a part of". Everyone cracked up, and I thought it was a totally good call. The girl kind of shut up after that, but she still had to interrupt both Amanda's songs and speeches in between several times before Amanda even said anything about it, which is way the hell more tolerant than I could ever be

must have been hilarious though... 

[lentower]

I just read the blog from 2008. Right with steph g about the shouts of love thing. I'm not a musician, but I feel it would piss me off having people yelling shit through my songs as it would suggest they're not paying attention. I'd also find it very creepy, and I've always admired the way Amanda deals with it. Whenever I've met Amanda at shows I've always just sort of quietly said hi and maybe a few other words and got shit signed and tried not to put upon her too much, because I figure it must get quite heavy with whole tours of devoted fans to meet and what have you. At signing desks I've mentioned various songs I've particularly enjoyed of hers, and maybe asked her a quick question or two, and she kissed me once on my birthday, but it was brief and consensual Plus there are always queues and what have you so its usually just a case of "hey nice show, loved the bit where you played this song, can you please sign this thanks have fun". I later read her blog about chest rippings and how she likes it when people talk to her about what her music means to them etc and I wondered if maybe it would have been nicer to say more rather than sounding a bit indifferent, but hey, I figure it's better to underdo it than overdo it. I remember one year I went with a girl who wrote her a letter and gave it to her after the show with some chocolates, and Amanda seemed really flattered by it, so maybe that's one way of getting appreciation out there without getting into her space or time too much.
I'm not really a crazy AFP fan, anyway. I mean I like and respect her, and I like her music, but I certainly don't love her. I also think it's sad that there are people who would seek to abuse the connection Amanda tries to make with her fans, whether they mean to or not. Whether she's a particularly accessible musician or not, she's still a person with boundaries, and most of her fans are still strangers to her. In both of these cases, I wonder if the fans expected her to be okay with it, or if they were just overwhelmed by alcohol or lust or something and forgot to care.

I use to never get in line.  Just watch meet-n-greet, and leave.
Like Astica, I had nothing special to say, and just meeting them is so special to many of their fans,
that I wanted to leave the time to those fans, and also to A&B who get so tired when they tour.
A&B can also really change a fan life, in a few seconds.  I watch meet-n-greet to see that happen.
Well, they take more than the typical few seconds per fan, but they can sense when a fan needs their support.
And are very good at giving what's needed.  Often life-changing for the fan.  One of my favorite things about Brian and Amanda,

After several dozen gigs (I live in Boston, and made everything for my first year as a fan (still do)),
Brian bounched over, and said:
"I'm Brian.  You're Len Tower.  Thanks for being a fan."
I said:
"Thanks for performing and caring about your fans."
and he bounched off.

I discussed this all with one of the wise amongst our fellow fans.
And was told I was a boob, and should stand in line.
(said fan is much politer than that, but that what it boiled down to ; - ).

So I do now.

[/3am stream of consciousness]

EDIT: actually, just remembered this one time in....2010? This (quite drunk sounding) girl kept yelling out about how she loved Amanda so much. She must have realised it was annoying people, since she then started apologising at the same time. After about the 5th "AMANDA I LOVE YOU I'M SORRY", Amanda, who was between songs, made some comment along the lines of "wow, it's like we have this whole passive-aggressive relationship I'm not even a part of". Everyone cracked up, and I thought it was a totally good call. The girl kind of shut up after that, but she still had to interrupt both Amanda's songs and speeches in between several times before Amanda even said anything about it, which is way the hell more tolerant than I could ever be

Amanda and Brian respect us, their fans.  We should, in return, respect them.

[lentower]

this seems to happen on a regular basis in one form or another.... i recall a stolen uke...that was returned after the parties involved woke up the following morning....simple answer is that one should respect the artist as much, if not more, than one respects oneself......

I can believe regular for the population of all artists.

Rare for Amanda and Brian.

if you include rude ticket holders,
who are not Punk Cabaret
(that is, disrespectful of a&b, and the other preformers on stage,
as well as the fans in the audience) --
it is common for a&b.

world has too many souls who don't care about others

[The Angel Raliel]

selfishness seems to be a standard state for far many people in society

[lentower]

selfishness seems to be a standard state for far many people in society

it doesn't take many to make things "worse".
1% at a d.dolls concert?

btw, one of my mentors,
defined alturism as widely cast selfishness

[The Angel Raliel]

I disagree...... selfishness requires one to not give a damn about the consequences of your actions upon other people...altruism by it's very nature (though it may well be self serving) requires a sense of empathy towards others