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[N.U.]

Spam is still spamtasic. Board timeouts are still timing out. Occasional crashes are still happening.

GREAT JOB!!! 

[CeeGBee]

We aim for a sense of comfortable continuity...   

[lentower]

noted.

as N.U. knows,
some of this occurs due to the way
the moderators deal with
persistent repeat spam bots.  

the hardcore spam stomping tool can
temporarily prevent access to the sbox.

[spider jerusalem]

Im still waiting for a solution to avoid them registering. You said to avoid installing plugins to make maintence easier. Ok, fair enough - bloating pluggable softwares with dozens of plugins make updates a nightmare. But a simple Q/A plugins will stop bots from registering. Stopped on my board - same SMF - why wouldnt stop here? 

[N.U.]

Because there is a master list of priorities and this board is nowhere near the top of it, and Len KNOWS this is true.

[lentower]

Because there is a master list of priorities and this board is nowhere near the top of it, and Len KNOWS this is true.

Not true.

But N.U. isn't saying anything new in this thread.
I've been around this wheel with him before,
both in posts and P.M.s

Thanks again to him for all the spam removing he did when he was a mod.

Im still waiting for a solution to avoid them registering. You said to avoid installing plugins to make maintence easier. Ok, fair enough - bloating pluggable softwares with dozens of plugins make updates a nightmare. But a simple Q/A plugins will stop bots from registering. Stopped on my board - same SMF - why wouldnt stop here? 

I don't see why this suggestion has been ignored/shunned. It's a damn good idea. One little plug in is not going to cause a huge issue, and will solve so many more problems.

It been neither ignored nor shunned. 
Just not commented on enuf, by the Admins and others on Team Amanda.

Both Sean and Hayley, our Admins, care deeply about this part of the Punk Cabaret community.
They hate the spam more than most here.
They both spend time daily taking care of the sbox.

Team Amanda is also well into the production of A's next album with the Grand Theft Orchestra.
There is lot of work that has to be done to position it for success,
even before the tracks come out of the studio.


I've talked enough with Sean about the current state of our sbox's SMF installation,
to understand that installing a Q/A plugin as part of the registration process is not straightforward,
and has significant risks.

spider jerusalem: though the forum you use and our sbox both use SMF.
The sbox is stressing the SMF software in ways it hasn't been tested for.
Including interactions between account deletion and banning,
as well as unusually large number of threads, posts, users, spams, etc.

It does not surprise me that the box is low on the list of priorities, seeing as we're pretty much self contained and most of us wander into the news section quite occasionally. I will say, however, that the way business is conducted in one area of an industry reflects upon that entire industry as a whole.  And I don't mean I won't be trusting other forums to be efficient.

It would help to try to attract more fans here, new and old. 
I understand that the spam makes being here unattractive to some,
and to some, promoting a forum with spam is a non-starter.

It would help if the fans here,
did spend more time in the top third,
and support the artists who pay for and sponsor this forum.

For example,
how many of you have voted even once:
http://www.theshadowbox.net/forum/index.php?topic=35980.0
? ? ?

You can do nothing but enjoy the no-money/no-charge ride here,
or you can pay your hosts back by supporting them.
Your choice.

[N.U.]

oh, so now we're being extorted? PUH-LEASE.

[lentower]

how many of you have voted even once:
http://www.theshadowbox.net/forum/index.php?topic=35980.0

Erm, I did. Just because you're the only one to say 'I voted!' on the thread doesn't mean nobody else is doing so without the need to be praised for it. Is it any wonder people don't go up there when there is hardly any actual discussion going on? It's just 'look at this' 'look at that' fair enough I look at it, but just because I don't go 'this is awesome I'm totally doing this!11!!' doesn't mean I don't deserve a spam-free experience on the box, or anybody else. If its donations to the sbox you wanted, I would gladly give some money if it would make you sit up and realise that the plug-in suggestion is worth trying, just don't try and trip me with the 'freeloader' guilt for not spending all my time in the news section spending the little money i have on every project going when there are more interesting things going on elsewhere. Is entertaining oneself not the main purpose of the Internet after all?

Sarah:

I wasn't pointing at you specifically.

You just inspired some things to add to this discussion.


I'm bumping the Phoeix contest thread to:
 * remind people they can vote more than once.
 * have it recently change for people who don't come by often,
so they will have a chance to see it, and hopefully vote.

I've also posted this Phoenix contest,
where I have home pages and web presence.

And will probably bump those as I re-visit those web sights.

[lentower]

oh, so now we're being extorted? PUH-LEASE.

one H

one T

exhorted

which is certainly part of the sbox ; - }

[N.U.]

Your implication that the board hasn't been fixed because the posters haven't voted on a dumb twitter poll is extortion. I used the right word the first time.

[lentower]

^ sigh ** sigh

[Cherry Chesterfield]

^ sigh ** sigh

I know.  It is a bummer that the thing you've been pushing so mightily this past week is nothing but a dumb twitter poll. 

It would be a big un-sigh if it were something important like Best Fucking Punk Cabaret Singer in the Entire Fucking Punk Cabaret Universe, or some such.

** sigh

[lentower]

^ sigh ** sigh

I know.  It is a bummer that the thing you've been pushing so mightily this past week is nothing but a dumb twitter poll.  

It would be a big un-sigh if it were something important like Best Fucking Punk Cabaret Singer in the Entire Fucking Punk Cabaret Universe, or some such.

** sigh

what's important is where the twitter contest is:

Amanda's hometown alternative paper in Boston

she solo & with Brian has won some category in that paper
(and a few categories some years.)
most of the past decade plus.

keeping visibility at home is important in the Music Biz.
(AFPwire doesn't ask for help with every poll and contest.
only a few.  & imho, the important ones.)

I'm bumping it everyday, for those who check in less
frequently.

[Pope Totalfrog]

For example,
how many of you have voted even once:
http://www.theshadowbox.net/forum/index.php?topic=35980.0
? ? ?

You can do nothing but enjoy the no-money/no-charge ride here,
or you can pay your hosts back by supporting them.
Your choice.

So buying the merch/music/tickets, street teaming (which quite a few people have been giving up their time to do lately here in Oz) and doing all we can to support AFP, Brian and the Dolls is all for naught if we don't vote in an online poll?

What selfish bastards we all are.

[CeeGBee]

Gotta agree with the cynics here, Len...

I really see no connection whatever between Amanda's again-this-year (woo-hoo)
award-nomination and the spambot-filters (or lack thereof).

[lentower]

Cee

I said

...

For example,

...

I picked that one, because it was something that fans anywhere, could do to help now.
With Brian not performing until May, and Amanda parked in Melbourne for a few months,
and the d.dolls back on haitus ...

So buying the merch/music/tickets, street teaming (which quite a few people have been giving up their time to do lately here in Oz) and doing all we can to support AFP, Brian and the Dolls is all for naught if we don't vote in an online poll?

What selfish bastards we all are.

Froggie:

Thanks for providing more examples. 
And I'm happy for all that anyone does to help Brian and Amanda.


Whining and letting the frustration out,
can help some people deal with stuff.

[FLAME ON]
But N.U.'s has gone beyond getting repetitive and pointless.
(So let me whine about my frustration about hearing his
ENDLESS POINTLESS BORING DRONING about this.)
[/FLAME OFF]


I am deeply sadden that most of the complainers
can't even begin to put themselves into Team Amanda's
shoes, and understand AT ALL the realities of running
a rock band.  How hard it is.

And particularly, how hard it is for both Sean and Hayley
to not have done more sooner about the spam.

They both put a lot of time into keeping this forum going.
And yet in doing that, they have to come here and see
people complaining that the forum doesn't meet the complainer's
idea of forum perfection.  And they both want to provide the best experience
they can for fans her and elsewhere.

Note that they are both much younger than Amanda.
That is, they are in the age range of most fans, and most sboxers.

So, how would you youngin's feel if this kind of hateful scorn
were shoveled your way, when you were doing the best you can
for your band and their fans?


I'm further sadden that people can't begin to put themselves in Team Amanda shoes,
and believe that there isn't an easy fix to the spam on this forum.

That substantial time and careful work has to be put in,
to fix it.

[FLAME ON]
So much easier for some of you, to whine and demand and try to
exTort (to use N.U.'s word for his sucky recent whine).
[/FLAME OFF]


Awaiting the next whine.
Maybe it will have a tiny bit of redeeming social value.
At least a hint of creativity or humor.


Time to go back to deleting spam,
and doing other useful stuff inside and outside
the Punk Cabaret

[N.U.]

LOL, yes how DARE I complain! Nevermind that it was made very clear to me that this board isn't near the top of their priorities.

You know, my job is pretty hard, too, but unlike some others, I actually get all my work done. I don't use "my work is hard" as an excuse to let some important aspects of my job to slide.

Before you get all uppity about "well you get paid for what you do" I might remind you that I also volunteer (meaning not paid) as president of my HOA, dealing with very real grievances, all of which need to be addressed or there are very real legal ramifications. Would I be able to just tell the homeowner whose sewer has just backed up into their unit "my work is so hard" as a reason for NOT doing something about this person's living space being soaked in raw sewage? The answer is obvious.

So I ask, why isn't this situation as obvious?

[Musings]

I had something longer written, but N.U. posted first.

Two points:

1.  Len, it is uber condescending to suggest that Hayley and Sean are less emotionally capable of handling feedback because they are younger than Amanda.  They are getting poor feedback because, as N.U. has made clear, there is one aspect of their jobs that they are not addressing.  They are capable of dealing with this as well as anyone older.  I say this as someone "in their age range".

2. N.U., the fact is this does not have the same urgency as someone's sewer getting backed up.  The forum also does not have the same urgency as merchandising, tours, managing, etc. whateverthehell Sean and Hayley do, which ideally, more people would help them out with, but isn't my decision or your decision or their decision to make.  Even within the forum, the people who are complaining about spam (us, the jaded older Sbxers) are not the main priority (the real young'uns, the new fans who will buy more merchandising and CDs and be giddy about Amanda's newer projects are).  

So you have a choice: continue to post your frustration in this thread, therefore being an important dissenting voice, who is still unlikely to be heard

or, do what I do: post rarely, mock SBx on Twitter, swoop into to watch Len (a well meaning fellow who thinks he is the voice of all that is good and protector of Team Amanda) vs. N.U. (a well meaning fellow who thinks he is, as the loudest dissenting voice, a rebel and protector of Fans Amanda), and for all intents and purposes think of the Shadowbox of more of joke than a real entity where I can use my time productively or have interesting conversation.

[Cherry Chesterfield]

^ sigh ** sigh

I know.  It is a bummer that the thing you've been pushing so mightily this past week is nothing but a dumb twitter poll.  

It would be a big un-sigh if it were something important like Best Fucking Punk Cabaret Singer in the Entire Fucking Punk Cabaret Universe, or some such.

** sigh

what's important is where the twitter contest is:

Amanda's hometown alternative paper in Boston

she solo & with Brian has won some category in that paper
(and a few categories some years.)
most of the past decade plus.

keeping visibility at home is important in the Music Biz.
(AFPwire doesn't ask for help with every poll and contest.
only a few.  & imho, the important ones.)

I'm bumping it everyday, for those who check in less
frequently.

Len, Len, Len, Lenlenlen....pay attention to your own words.  "What's important is where the twitter contest is."

EXACTLY! 

Where is it?

BOSTON!

Do I live in Boston?  No.  Therefore, it would be unseemly for me to vote in that particular newspaper's poll.  As it would be unseemly for anyone to ask me to vote in it, as well as it being unfair to the candidates for this particular honor.

Oh, but this is not about a fair competition, as silly as it may be.  It's really about supporting a rock band because they work hard and it's a hard life etc and so what's wrong about getting as much publicity as possible?

Okay, you win.  Rig the election, vote early and vote often, eh?

So, bump away Len.

Christ, this whole thing really pisses me the fuck off.

Spam, I can deal with.

The LenBox - not so much.

[Pope Totalfrog]

I had something longer written, but N.U. posted first.

Two points:

1.  Len, it is uber condescending to suggest that Hayley and Sean are less emotionally capable of handling feedback because they are younger than Amanda.  They are getting poor feedback because, as N.U. has made clear, there is one aspect of their jobs that they are not addressing.  They are capable of dealing with this as well as anyone older.  I say this as someone "in their age range".

2. N.U., the fact is this does not have the same urgency as someone's sewer getting backed up.  The forum also does not have the same urgency as merchandising, tours, managing, etc. whateverthehell Sean and Hayley do, which ideally, more people would help them out with, but isn't my decision or your decision or their decision to make.  Even within the forum, the people who are complaining about spam (us, the jaded older Sbxers) are not the main priority (the real young'uns, the new fans who will buy more merchandising and CDs and be giddy about Amanda's newer projects are).   

So you have a choice: continue to post your frustration in this thread, therefore being an important dissenting voice, who is still unlikely to be heard

or, do what I do: post rarely, mock SBx on Twitter, swoop into to watch Len (a well meaning fellow who thinks he is the voice of all that is good and protector of Team Amanda) vs. N.U. (a well meaning fellow who thinks he is, as the loudest dissenting voice, a rebel and protector of Fans Amanda), and for all intents and purposes think of the Shadowbox of more of joke than a real entity where I can use my time productively or have interesting conversation.

Have I told you lately that I love you?

[spider jerusalem]

spider jerusalem: though the forum you use and our sbox both use SMF.
The sbox is stressing the SMF software in ways it hasn't been tested for.
Including interactions between account deletion and banning,
as well as unusually large number of threads, posts, users, spams, etc.

There used to be a special thread for "big boards" on the official Simple Machine forums. It was/is a restricted section for boards with 500K+ messages. The SB does not have 500K... so, it is not pushing SMF that far. There other forums out there dedicated to a multitude of subjects that has more activity and more than 500K messages. That is: you do can secure and avoid spam surges on big boards. Tips are out there on their forum. Just read and use them to improve this board. To maintain a big board will consume time and power. If you cant cope with that, better find some else to do so.

Regards to voting on pools not related with my city or country, last year, when Harley got in touch with me to see how big was/is our fan base she asked us to not manipulate and make honest votes on the Eventful pool to avoid distorting data. So, why would I not follow this same philosophy regarded other DD/AP/BV pools?

[lentower]

it's not Hayley's, Sean's, or anyone else on Team Amanda's job,
to do what any of you tell them to do

as a long term fan, i can say:
your input is welcome.
including your frustrations

it's their bosses, ultimately Amanda and Brian,
to specify their job descriptions,
and give them their job assignments

so if you're really interested in communicating,
please find a more appropriate way to phrase things

I had something longer written, but N.U. posted first.

Musings

How would you FEEL, if you were in Sean's' and Hayley's shoes, holding their jobs,
and you had to read N.U.'s incessant, boring, whiny, etc.posts about the spam?

I mentioned this above, but you choose to focus elsewhere.

Two points:

1.  Len, it is uber condescending to suggest that Hayley and Sean are less emotionally capable of handling feedback because they are younger than Amanda.  They are getting poor feedback because, as N.U. has made clear, there is one aspect of their jobs that they are not addressing.  They are capable of dealing with this as well as anyone older.  I say this as someone "in their age range".

Musings

with all due respect,
it's not condescending.

if you don't understand this from what I did write,
it would take far more time than I have now to try and get you to understand.

2. N.U., the fact is this does not have the same urgency as someone's sewer getting backed up.  The forum also does not have the same urgency as merchandising, tours, managing, etc. whateverthehell Sean and Hayley do, which ideally, more people would help them out with, but isn't my decision or your decision or their decision to make.  Even within the forum, the people who are complaining about spam (us, the jaded older Sbxers) are not the main priority (the real young'uns, the new fans who will buy more merchandising and CDs and be giddy about Amanda's newer projects are).   

So you have a choice: continue to post your frustration in this thread, therefore being an important dissenting voice, who is still unlikely to be heard

...

Musings

The frustration is heard and understood.

But it isn't going to change anything faster.

N.U. approach isn't helping.

He is hitting the nail so hard and so often,
he is destroying both the nail
and wood it's suppose to hold together.

Less frequent whining,
More creative complaints,
would be better.

e.g. spider Jerusalem's approach is much better

[Musings]

Interestingly, Len, it is also not your job to tell anyone to "find a more appropriate way of phrasing things".

Before N.U.'s posts, when several people (including N.U.) made reasonable complaints and suggestions, I would have felt that something needed to be done and would have asked spider or someone else with more computer saavy to take a look and do what he can to help.  After N.U. 's comments, I would either ignored that part of the board, or continued to post about solutions that are being tried - this depends on whether I actually had the time or space to find solutions, or whether I had taken initiative to ask for help, or whether I cared much about the board (which I honestly get why it is not that high on the list of priorities of anyone involved because I would feel the same way).  However, I am not more hurt or offended by these posts because I am a young'in, and really I shouldn't be able to better relate to this aspect of Sean and hayley's lives because we are all younger than Amanda. 

You are right about one  thing - it would take far too much of both of our times for me to fully understand everything you write.

[N.U.]

Maybe THESE guys can help with the board issues.

[CeeGBee]

Maybe THESE guys can help with the board issues.

Ha ha ha.....  You do realise those guys have the only high-speed internet connection for
a hundred miles around, and they use it to spam American internet sites, right?  You can't
see the server rack inside their shack.

[lentower]

You are right about one  thing - it would take far too much of both of our times for me to fully understand everything you write.

& vice-versa : - {

[Hayley Fiasco!]

I find it fascinating how my name has been thrown around here as if I need someone else to speak for me, which I clearly do not.

You can be loud, you can stamp your feet, you can be persistent and whatever it may be - to say something positive, or to express something negative, about the forum, about the band, about whatever you want, but that may or may not have an effect on how long something takes.

The forum is full of spam, yes, we see that, we are working hard to remove it as quickly as possible. As it stands, from the last I heard of it, there are some serious roadblocks that prevent us from changing these forums right now pertaining not just to the forum software, but to the servers. However, that means there is no IMMEDIATE resolution, but it does not mean that it will not be fixed or addressed in the coming months. I do not know the details, but it's a fair assumption and I believe Sean may have even stated it previously - Amanda's online channels, her websites, are about to be overhauled in conjunction with her next album and a bunch of other updates.

If there was ANYONE here (next to amanda and brian) who cares about the general happiness of you folks, the shadowbox, the long time and hard core fans, it would be me. And I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I'd say Sean and the rest of Amanda's team would agree too. So vent your frustrations, you're right, the spam sucks, but you aren't being ignored and fixes are in progress. I don't know the details, if I did, I'd share them with you. So either patiently wait, or do as Musings suggested and mock the forum on twitter.

[imaginary friend]

 


felt I should make a token effort to contribute to the discussion. it's the least I could do.

[lentower]

It's been noted by a number of you,
that because of the spam,
it's hard to suggest to people they
come to the sbox and hang out here.

Whining about the spam, also makes
this forum a less desirable place to be,
and to recommend.

I would personally appreciate less whining.

As Hayley suggested,
I would personally appreciate more patience, .

But you're free to do what you want,
within the BOX-RULES (please read before posting)
And as a moderator, I have to respect that.

[In passing, I've spent 15 minutes so far today
(6hrs 57 mins) deleting the spam,
and for most of that time I was asleep.]

[lentower]

We only 'whine' in the appropriate threads and it is never without suggestion for improvement.

I would personally appreciate less God Complex.

it's sad you see it that way.

[Savannah]

It's sad all you see in what we say is whining.

Couldn't agree more.

Yeah, if you say it would take time to solve the problem completely, it's ok. We all are able to understand it.
Even the most patient man of the planet would get fed up with these spambots in just a week, we also understand it.

But when you say "You just see the spambots and get angry, i'm the one who keeps dealing with them voluntarily all the time. You don't pay that much attention to the poll, you're having a no-money ride here, etc." it becomes offending. People here are just trying to find a solution, nobody aims to run you guys or this forum down.

[N.U.]

It's sad all you see in what we say is whining.

You DO realize, len, that downplaying valid frustrations only makes those who are frustrated even more frustrated, right? Hayley answered more in one post, even without specifics, than you have this entire thread.

It might be something to think about.

[lentower]

Hayley said nothing new in that post,
that she and Sean hadn't posted here in the past.

It's sad that you, N.U.,
who is so concerned with this issue,
can't get that.

A polite:
"Any chance that spam on the sbox will be fixed sooner,
than when Team Amanda is done with this album?"
would have be so much classier and civilized.

So sad that you prefer to instead
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE.
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE.

[Savannah]

Sometimes people's choice of words and style of talking goes too far from what they really meant to say.

Nevermind, we don't have any right to say something about it, because we are whining freerider janglers. We don't deserve to speak our minds.

And oh, Karen Millen dresses are so stylish! Yay!

[Pope Totalfrog]

I can't decide if whining about perceived whining is irony or not.

[Cherry Chesterfield]

I can't decide if whining about perceived whining is irony or not.

Maybe.

But it is ironic that Len seems to have become one of the baby grinches that he once proclaimed was, like, bad for the health of the Shadowbox.   

http://www.theshadowbox.net/forum/index.php?topic=1518.msg36269#msg36269

[lentower]

It's not fair play to complain about my whining,
and not also complain about N.U.'s.

But for what ever reason,
some of you seem to feel it's OK to do so.
To be unfair to me.

To behave in an unbalanced, biased manner.

I obviously feel this uneven treatment is wrong.

Even more so for N.U.'s lack or respect for Sean & Hayley.


I will go on whining about N.U.'s whining about
the spam and the Admins, as long as he whines.


From my response to a private exchange about this:

Freedom without compassion.
Freedom without responsibility.
Freedom being used for narrow-minded self-interest.
Is not Freedom at all.
...
...
Even if you prefix "Freedom" with
Punk Cabaret is "


The spam doesn't bother me.
I just read around it here (before I was a Mod),
(you see far less of it, if you use
http://www.theshadowbox.net/forum/index.php?action=unreadreplies,
though that doesn't get new posts in threads, you haven't posted in.
And much of the spam is in General Discussion,
which has so little non-spam posted in it recently ...)
other forums,
my spam boxes on my email accounts,
...


Enough for now.  
(Though there are several other points worth making.
Maybe later.)

[N.U.]

Complaining about valid issues isn't whining, especially when the board admins acknowledge that it is a significant issue, but it's okay if you think that it is whining, len.

Kind of telling, really.

[lentower]

You've gone on about it

at length

repeatedly

using non-constructive language

being disrespectful of both Hayley and Sean

etc.

etc.

etc.

[Cherry Chesterfield]

From my response to a private exchange about this:

Freedom without compassion.
Freedom without responsibility.
Freedom being used for narrow-minded self-interest.
Is not Freedom at all.

Wrong.  [these things are] probably not utopian, or even punk cabaretian, but freedom does not, and never has, intrinsically included compassion, responsibility or lack of narrow-minded self-interest.

[lentower]

From my response to a private exchange about this:

Freedom without compassion.
Freedom without responsibility.
Freedom being used for narrow-minded self-interest.
Is not Freedom at all.

Wrong.  [these things are] probably not utopian, or even punk cabaretian, but freedom does not, and never has, intrinsically included compassion, responsibility or lack of narrow-minded self-interest.

We use different definitions.

Your's often unravels the social fabric.

Mine usually builds it.

btw, Thomas Jefferson understood the point I'm making here.
(psst, the primary author of the US Declaration of Indepence in 1776.)

[Cherry Chesterfield]

From my response to a private exchange about this:

Freedom without compassion.
Freedom without responsibility.
Freedom being used for narrow-minded self-interest.
Is not Freedom at all.

Wrong.  [these things are] probably not utopian, or even punk cabaretian, but freedom does not, and never has, intrinsically included compassion, responsibility or lack of narrow-minded self-interest.

We use different definitions.

Your's often unravels the social fabric.

Mine usually builds it.

btw, Thomas Jefferson understood the point I'm making here.
(psst, the primary author of the US Declaration of Indepence in 1776.)

Well, aren't we being the condescending twit.  Go fucking "psst" yourself.

I understand your point but, like I told you, I disagree with it. 

"The" definition, not "my" definition is simply "freedom is being able to do what you want to do."

By the way, what does "freedom" have to do with this thread anyway?  You've hijacked it, Len.  Isn't that, like, against your sbox code?

[lentower]

It's quite germaine to this thread.

Thread evoluiton is what it is.
At time it makes it harder for threads to be useful resources later on

[CeeGBee]

psst, Len, TJ had the free time to be all enlightened and shit because he had slaves to work his farms.....

Perhaps his definition of "freedom" wasn't quite as altruistic as some would suggest.

[returns to staying out of it...]

[N.U.]

If I have been disrespectful of Sean and/or Hayley, then, as free adults, wouldn't it be for them to address and not you, len?

[imaginary friend]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VA4V5aO5NaM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/VA4V5aO5NaM</a>

 

[Pope Totalfrog]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VA4V5aO5NaM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/VA4V5aO5NaM</a>

 

Excellent soundtrack choice for this thread.

[absynth aura]

If I have been disrespectful of Sean and/or Hayley, then, as free adults, wouldn't it be for them to address and not you, len?

I was just thinking that same thing. Hayley did mention that she didn't need anyone to speak for her, so wouldn't that mean that it would only be fair for her to respond if she was feeling disrespected?


Also, can I say, that the post you made with the word whining in increasing size was an incredibly childish response.



And now back to your regular programming.

[lentower]

If I have been disrespectful of Sean and/or Hayley, then, as free adults, wouldn't it be for them to address and not you, len?

this is only a corner of your behaviour

you hurt good people, you hurt me

i note your tone is more civil than
elsewhere in this thread and others

[N.U.]

If I have been disrespectful of Sean and/or Hayley, then, as free adults, wouldn't it be for them to address and not you, len?

this is only a corner of your behaviour

you hurt good people, you hurt me

i note your tone is more civil than
elsewhere in this thread and others

No. You cannot have it both ways. Either you are speaking for Hayley/Sean or you are not. As Hayley has said she doesn't want anyone to speak for her, then it is disrespectful of you to continue to do so.

[lentower]

If I have been disrespectful of Sean and/or Hayley, then, as free adults, wouldn't it be for them to address and not you, len?

this is only a corner of your behaviour

you hurt good people, you hurt me

i note your tone is more civil than
elsewhere in this thread and others

No. You cannot have it both ways. Either you are speaking for Hayley/Sean or you are not. As Hayley has said she doesn't want anyone to speak for her, then it is disrespectful of you to continue to do so.

I disagree.

[Shock G]

This thread is awesome!!!

[lentower]

This thread is awesome!!!

Finally, a laugh in this thread!

Thank You!!!

[N.U.]

If I have been disrespectful of Sean and/or Hayley, then, as free adults, wouldn't it be for them to address and not you, len?

this is only a corner of your behaviour

you hurt good people, you hurt me

i note your tone is more civil than
elsewhere in this thread and others

No. You cannot have it both ways. Either you are speaking for Hayley/Sean or you are not. As Hayley has said she doesn't want anyone to speak for her, then it is disrespectful of you to continue to do so.

I disagree.

Oh, so this really is all about you, then. Got it. Great to hear you finally own up to that truth, len.

[lentower]

If I have been disrespectful of Sean and/or Hayley, then, as free adults, wouldn't it be for them to address and not you, len?

this is only a corner of your behaviour

you hurt good people, you hurt me

i note your tone is more civil than
elsewhere in this thread and others

No. You cannot have it both ways. Either you are speaking for Hayley/Sean or you are not. As Hayley has said she doesn't want anyone to speak for her, then it is disrespectful of you to continue to do so.

I disagree.

Oh, so this really is all about you, then. Got it. Great to hear you finally own up to that truth, len.

No.  It's about this forum.

But the fact you come to that conclusion is part of the issue here.

[Half Mar]

This thread
is so difficult
to read.
Sometimes.

*sigh*

[N.U.]

If I have been disrespectful of Sean and/or Hayley, then, as free adults, wouldn't it be for them to address and not you, len?

this is only a corner of your behaviour

you hurt good people, you hurt me

i note your tone is more civil than
elsewhere in this thread and others

No. You cannot have it both ways. Either you are speaking for Hayley/Sean or you are not. As Hayley has said she doesn't want anyone to speak for her, then it is disrespectful of you to continue to do so.

I disagree.

Oh, so this really is all about you, then. Got it. Great to hear you finally own up to that truth, len.

No.  It's about this forum.

But the fact you come to that conclusion is part of the issue here.

I'm an analyst by trade, len. I look at facts, figures, and situations, and then draw conclusions based upon the evidence. I've been consistent here. You've been all over the map.

First it was "it's being handled in a timely manner", then it was "Freeloaders quit complaining", then it was "Whine Whine Whine", then it was leaping to the defense of the admins when they specifically said they didn't want anyone speaking for them, and now it's "about the forum".

What's the common link between the aforementioned tactics?

[absynth aura]

This thread
is so difficult
to read.
Sometimes.

*sigh*

Well played, Mar. Well played.

[lentower]

I'm an analyst by trade, len. I look at facts, figures, and situations, and then draw conclusions based upon the evidence. I've been consistent here. You've been all over the map.

First it was "it's being handled in a timely manner", then it was "Freeloaders quit complaining", then it was "Whine Whine Whine", then it was leaping to the defense of the admins when they specifically said they didn't want anyone speaking for them, and now it's "about the forum".

What's the common link between the aforementioned tactics?

Your mention of your background is smoke screen at best.
(btw, i've been doing human/computer system analysis and design for decades,.)

The rest of this is just you trying to frame the issue to support your behavior.
(BTW, poorly.)

You're behavior in this thread, and elsewhere on this forum,
about the spam issue is rude, excessive, and extermely self-centered.

Of course, you don't want to hear that.

Of course, you want to continue to act poorly.
You have the freedom here to do that,
as long as you remain within the box rules.

I have the freedom to point out to you that it's wrong.

Of course, you could change your behavior.

[N.U.]

^ This coming from a grown man who gave us the following:

So sad that you prefer to instead
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE.
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE
whine, and Whine, AND WHINE.

I'll consider the source, len.

[lentower]

Quoting out of context.
More ill-behavior.

[CeeGBee]

At this point, I believe one of you is supposed to call the other stinky-pants, countered by a short
poetical submission involving the words rubber, glue, and "bounces off me and sticks to you".  The
'stinky-pants' commentor then says something about the other party's mom, and a short scuffle ensues.....

The teacher, will then break you up and make you sit in opposite corners of the room while the other
children go outside for recess.

Let's skip all that and go on to the part where each of you says "he started it" and attempts to rationalise
and reiterate your original points that:

1. We have a spam problem.

-and-

2. It isn't being addressed as comprehensively as some would like

-but-

3. It IS being addressed...  even if it's not at the top of our
   hostess' (and her staff's) priorities & expenditures list.

-and-

4. Since most of us are not privy to the nature of that list,
   arguing about it probably doesn't make a lot of sense.


Thank you for your time.

[The Angel Raliel]

can we now have scenes of otters...?

[Cherry Chesterfield]

At this point, I believe one of you is supposed to call the other stinky-pants, countered by a short
poetical submission involving the words rubber, glue, and "bounces off me and sticks to you".  The
'stinky-pants' commentor then says something about the other party's mom, and a short scuffle ensues.....

The teacher, will then break you up and make you sit in opposite corners of the room while the other
children go outside for recess.

Can we have Brittany  come back and be the teacher?

[spider jerusalem]

Can we have Brittany  come back and be the teacher?

You have my support on that.

[N.U.]

Quoting out of context.
More ill-behavior.

Could you explain any context where what you posted doesn't come across as juvenile?

[lentower]

Quoting out of context.
More ill-behavior.

Could you explain any context where what you posted doesn't come across as juvenile?

N.U. you just do not know when to stop behaving badly.

YOU started this thread (which is part of your consistent bad posts about the spam situation).

So it's most appropriate for YOU to answer the question you pose:
"Could you explain any context where what you posted doesn't come across as juvenile?"


Cee: excellent post above.

But it's seems clear that N.U. has no wisdom, or common sense,
has no concern for others than himself.
feels entitled to whatever his whining can get him,
not what he pays for or deserves,
and lack much else that compassionate reasonable humans and A.I.s have.

I've been SORELY tempted to delete his account and posts,
(EXCEPT it be an incredible breach of trust with Amanda, Sean, Hayley, et al.)
then my accounts and posts, and leave this forum
(what I do with my accounts and posts are my business).


T.A.R.

I have no good otter material at hand.

Otter than to muse,
that N.U. might be a poorly behaving spambot.

[lentower]

Everyone but N.U.:

* N.U.'s standard that it's OK to put people down
(in this case, Sean, Hayley, et al),
if they don't complain about it,
is just sick.

Do any of you agree?

* The fact that NONE of you also have called N.U. on his behavior
saddens me deeply.

[The Angel Raliel]

mainly because it just seems like a waste of breath.....he would probably just get into an argument with a mirror if it looked at him funny.....

[N.U.]

Everyone but N.U.:

* N.U.'s standard that it's OK to put people down
(in this case, Sean, Hayley, et al),
if they don't complain about it,
is just sick.

Do any of you agree?

* The fact that NONE of you also have called N.U. on his behavior
saddens me deeply.

I'm sorry your ego hasn't been stroked enough, len.

[Pope Totalfrog]

I've been SORELY tempted to delete his account and posts,
(EXCEPT it be an incredible breach of trust with Amanda, Sean, Hayley, et al.)
then my accounts and posts, and leave this forum
(what I do with my accounts and posts are my business).

You're right, with the exception of the spambots, only your accounts are your business. N.U. might be annoying the crap out of you but telling everyone that you're tempted to delete his account? That isn't cool.

You've deleted posts you didn't like before Len. Are we supposed to all be thanking you for not doing it now?

* The fact that NONE of you also have called N.U. on his behavior
saddens me deeply.

FWIW - you both could have stopped the back and forth on this a couple of pages ago but NEITHER of you did. You've kept this going just as much as N.U. has. So why should we take sides? If anything his posts are pretty consistent, he wasn't the one who posted the very mature pyramid of whine a few pages back.

You know you're never going to change each other's minds. So why bother? None of this fixes the problems the box is having.

[CeeGBee]

OTTERS!

(with music by Ingrid Michaelson)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/if0Epuw-rZg" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/if0Epuw-rZg</a>

(in the snow & ice & water)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mF6ijhSrbBQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mF6ijhSrbBQ</a>

(otter sports)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/is1fijPqaB0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/is1fijPqaB0</a>

(and the best of the bunch:)
.... oh, of course, this one won't embed... CLICK PLS>

[Pope Totalfrog]

OTTERS!

Otterly ridiculous. Baby sloths are where it's at.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BdPnwsWjdQY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/BdPnwsWjdQY</a>

[absynth aura]

Going to have to agree with you there.

[CeeGBee]

OTTERS!

Otterly ridiculous. Baby sloths are where it's at.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BdPnwsWjdQY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/BdPnwsWjdQY</a>

Froggy, you ignorant slut......

[Pope Totalfrog]

OTTERS!

Otterly ridiculous. Baby sloths are where it's at.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BdPnwsWjdQY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/BdPnwsWjdQY</a>

Froggy, you ignorant slut......

Charlie, you pompous ass......

Sloths rule! Otters drool!

[CeeGBee]

OTTERS!

Otterly ridiculous. Baby sloths are where it's at.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BdPnwsWjdQY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/BdPnwsWjdQY</a>

Froggy, you ignorant slut......

Charlie, you pompous ass......

Sloths rule! Otters drool!

Well now that you're pope (I wonder how many Cardinals ya had to sleep with
to get that job...) I suppose you can declare "otter" to be a deadly sin....

Wuh tev vurr....

[Pope Totalfrog]

OTTERS!

Otterly ridiculous. Baby sloths are where it's at.

[Cute]Adorable baby sloth video (Not otters, otters suck)[/Cute]

Froggy, you ignorant slut......

Charlie, you pompous ass......

Sloths rule! Otters drool!

Well now that you're pope (I wonder how many Cardinals ya had to sleep with
to get that job...) I suppose you can declare "otter" to be a deadly sin....

Wuh tev vurr....

I got my Pope gig based solely on talent. How dare you imply otherwise!

Otters are now a deadly sin (as per your suggestion, you only have yourself to blame). Also on Pope Froggie's shitlist are mosquitos, the perpetually cheerful and people who buy Easter eggs the week after Xmas. I've decided to send them all to hell.

Hell is filled with otters, this is why it is hell. If it was heaven it would be filled with thousands of ickle wickle baby sloths.

[CeeGBee]

OTTERS!

Otterly ridiculous. Baby sloths are where it's at.

[Cute]Adorable baby sloth video (Not otters, otters suck)[/Cute]

Froggy, you ignorant slut......

Charlie, you pompous ass......

Sloths rule! Otters drool!

Well now that you're pope (I wonder how many Cardinals ya had to sleep with
to get that job...) I suppose you can declare "otter" to be a deadly sin....

Wuh tev vurr....

I got my Pope gig based solely on talent. How dare you imply otherwise!

I believe that is exactly what I implied....
Before long, you could take over for yer mom on the web-site.

Otters are now a deadly sin (as per your suggestion, you only have yourself to blame). Also on Pope Froggie's shitlist are mosquitos, the perpetually cheerful and people who buy Easter eggs...

Wait....  teh nommy chocolate kind?  They're wonderful any time.

...the week after Xmas. I've decided to send them all to hell.

Hell is filled with otters, this is why it is hell. If it was heaven it would be filled with thousands of ickle wickle baby sloths.

Cool...  Hell-otters swimming in the rivers of fire....   

[Pope Totalfrog]

I believe that is exactly what I implied....
Before long, you could take over for yer mom on the web-site.

I could never take over from mum. I mean I'm flexible, but I'm not that flexible. Her overheads are massive too. Who knew ping pong balls could be so expensive?
Cue Benny Hill Joke about my mother's massive overheads...

Wait....  teh nommy chocolate kind?  They're wonderful any time.

So you're one of those people. I don't know if we can still be friends.

Cool...  Hell-otters swimming in the rivers of fire....  

Sure, it sounds good to you. Surrounded by the hellish creatures that you love, in the warm fiery dank (be great for your arthritis, I've heard most OLD people have it) but after an eternity or two you'd be longing for some slothy cuteness and you know it.

Repent now sinner.

[CeeGBee]

I believe that is exactly what I implied....
Before long, you could take over for yer mom on the web-site.

I could never take over from mum. I mean I'm flexible, but I'm not that flexible. Her overheads are massive too. Who knew ping pong balls could be so expensive?
Cue Benny Hill Joke about my mother's massive overheads...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/EiuRvULpnik" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/EiuRvULpnik</a>
meh... Tom Baker is a bit of a boob, but I don't suppose it's not a proper Benny Hill
post with out Hill's Angels...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/inaxE85NRBo" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/inaxE85NRBo</a>

Repent now sinner.

NEVER!  I'm going to nail pinup art to the door of the church, and start my own splinter-faction cult!

[Pope Totalfrog]

Repent now sinner.

NEVER!  I'm going to nail pinup art to the door of the church, and start my own splinter-faction cult!

I'm assuming this is one of the pinups in question.

Filth. 

[CeeGBee]

HUbba hubba!

(But no, there's this one of yer mom and these three otters.....)

[Pope Totalfrog]

HUbba hubba!

(But no, there's this one of yer mom and these three otters.....)

You lie. Mother's never been one to go in for otter shots.

[CeeGBee]

HUbba hubba!

(But no, there's this one of yer mom and these three otters.....)

You lie. Mother's never been one to go in for otter shots.

Hah!  You're trying to claim there's ANYTHING she wouldn't hasn't done?

This is about as foul an image as one could imagine without either actual nudity or
government arts-grant money...  but tasteful, compared with most of her work.

[Pope Totalfrog]

HUbba hubba!

(But no, there's this one of yer mom and these three otters.....)

You lie. Mother's never been one to go in for otter shots.

Hah!  You're trying to claim there's ANYTHING she wouldn't hasn't done?

This is about as foul an image as one could imagine without either actual nudity or
government arts-grant money...  but tasteful, compared with most of her work.

Pics or GTFO.

[CeeGBee]

HUbba hubba!

(But no, there's this one of yer mom and these three otters.....)

You lie. Mother's never been one to go in for otter shots.

Hah!  You're trying to claim there's ANYTHING she wouldn't hasn't done?

This is about as foul an image as one could imagine without either actual nudity or
government arts-grant money...  but tasteful, compared with most of her work.

Pics or GTFO.

Yeah, like I could get away with putting any of her stuff on here....
This board does have rules about the sort of filth we can post, ya know.

[Pope Totalfrog]

HUbba hubba!

(But no, there's this one of yer mom and these three otters.....)

You lie. Mother's never been one to go in for otter shots.

Hah!  You're trying to claim there's ANYTHING she wouldn't hasn't done?

This is about as foul an image as one could imagine without either actual nudity or
government arts-grant money...  but tasteful, compared with most of her work.

Pics or GTFO.

Yeah, like I could get away with putting any of her stuff on here....
This board does have rules about the sort of filth we can post, ya know.

Just shop pasties over the wobbly bits.

[CeeGBee]

HUbba hubba!

(But no, there's this one of yer mom and these three otters.....)

You lie. Mother's never been one to go in for otter shots.

Hah!  You're trying to claim there's ANYTHING she wouldn't hasn't done?

This is about as foul an image as one could imagine without either actual nudity or
government arts-grant money...  but tasteful, compared with most of her work.

Pics or GTFO.

Yeah, like I could get away with putting any of her stuff on here....
This board does have rules about the sort of filth we can post, ya know.

Just shop pasties over the wobbly bits.

I could paint the whole thing over in 100% opaque black and it would still violate the TOS...


(off to bed now...  2AM and I have to work in the morning...  Pick this up tomorrow?)

[Pope Totalfrog]

HUbba hubba!

(But no, there's this one of yer mom and these three otters.....)

You lie. Mother's never been one to go in for otter shots.

Hah!  You're trying to claim there's ANYTHING she wouldn't hasn't done?

This is about as foul an image as one could imagine without either actual nudity or
government arts-grant money...  but tasteful, compared with most of her work.

Pics or GTFO.

Yeah, like I could get away with putting any of her stuff on here....
This board does have rules about the sort of filth we can post, ya know.

Just shop pasties over the wobbly bits.

I could paint the whole thing over in 100% opaque black and it would still violate the TOS...


(off to bed now...  2AM and I have to work in the morning...  Pick this up tomorrow?)

Of course. Night night. Hope you dream of baby sloths.

[Annebelle.]

Let this be decided: sloths are the shit, and I can prove this to you by showing this video:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/t5jw3T3Jy70" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/t5jw3T3Jy70</a>

[Pope Totalfrog]

Let this be decided: sloths are the shit, and I can prove this to you by showing this video:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/t5jw3T3Jy70" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/t5jw3T3Jy70</a>

Behold, the power of the sloth. Otters have never reduced anyone to happy, happy tears.

[lentower]

Enjoyed the otter inspired humor.

mainly because it just seems like a waste of breath.....he would probably just get into an argument with a mirror if it looked at him funny.....

Good point.  Thanks.

...

You've deleted posts you didn't like before Len.

...

Froggie:

FALSE.

Can you to prove it?

But you can't.

You mature enough to apologize?

[Half Mar]

I am choosing to ignore this last post and enjoy all of the otter and especially sloth posts above. 

[lentower]

Why should everyone apologise to you when you never apologise for anything?

False.

When I'm wrong, I apologize.

Including here on the sbox.

Also, how can she prove you've deleted posts when the posts are no longer there?

Sarah:

And how can YOU prove I've deleted any posts at all?

Froogie remark is slanderous.
All the worst because it's the kind that's hard to prove
or disprove

I hope, as a lawyer, you never have to defend a client in
this situation.

[The Angel Raliel]

Otters are cool....and they ate Terry nutkin's fingers..and he still LOVES them! sloths have never eaten a person's fingers for fun..also the giant sloth was kind of huge but boring wheras giant otters think playing with a croc is fun

[Pope Totalfrog]

Len you deleted a post of mine back when you were extolling the wonders of g+. You know you did. Don't act all innocent now.

[Pope Totalfrog]

Otters are cool....and they ate Terry nutkin's fingers..and he still LOVES them! sloths have never eaten a person's fingers for fun..also the giant sloth was kind of huge but boring wheras giant otters think playing with a croc is fun

Terry Nutkins owed them money. That was no playful finger munching, that was payback.

[The Angel Raliel]

Q:does the shadowbox function?
A:yes
Q:do we have spam problems
A:yes
Q:is it a forum that costs users money to guarantee a problem-less, user friendly, private forum?
A:no....

like the irritating changes to FB and Twitter...we may be obsessed with using these social media, but we are not ACTUALLY contributing financially to these things and thus are kind of pretty much getting something for nothing and then whining about them not being entirely tailor made to our needs

[Cheddars Cousin]

Q: Is Len a dick?

A: I think you know.

[The Angel Raliel]

Otters are cool....and they ate Terry nutkin's fingers..and he still LOVES them! sloths have never eaten a person's fingers for fun..also the giant sloth was kind of huge but boring wheras giant otters think playing with a croc is fun

Terry Nutkins owed them money. That was no playful finger munching, that was payback.

nah...I have intimate experience with mustelids.... (mainly ferrets) they will do shit to you simply because they think it's funny...... I have handled the most passive and charming ferrets who on a whim have decided that they are bored with merely licking your hand and being friendly and decided to just sink their impossibly sharp fangs in....you know they ARE playing because they have not reached bone with that bite.....otters are basically giant water ferrets

[lentower]

Len you deleted a post of mine back when you were extolling the wonders of g+. You know you did. Don't act all innocent now.

I did not delete any post of yours.

[Pope Totalfrog]

Len you deleted a post of mine back when you were extolling the wonders of g+. You know you did. Don't act all innocent now.

I did not delete any post of yours.

So they magically disappeared then?

[lentower]

Len you deleted a post of mine back when you were extolling the wonders of g+. You know you did. Don't act all innocent now.

I did not delete any post of yours.

So they magically disappeared then?

Possible.  The software and servers is and has been that fragile.

Are you sure you didn't delete it?

[Pope Totalfrog]

Len, I think you did it. I am always going to think you did it. It disappeared at the same time that you sent me a fairly nasty PM (going to deny that too?). So feel free to suggest that it was deleted by me or by goblins, I'm still going to think you did it.

[lentower]

Len, I think you did it. I am always going to think you did it. It disappeared at the same time that you sent me a fairly nasty PM (going to deny that too?). So feel free to suggest that it was deleted by me or by goblins, I'm still going to think you did it.

I remember the PM.
I don't think it was nasty,
but you're welcome to your opinion.

I didn't delete your post.

[Shock G]

This is getting better and better!

[Pope Totalfrog]

Len, I think you did it. I am always going to think you did it. It disappeared at the same time that you sent me a fairly nasty PM (going to deny that too?). So feel free to suggest that it was deleted by me or by goblins, I'm still going to think you did it.

I remember the PM.
I don't think it was nasty,
but you're welcome to your opinion.

I didn't delete your post.

Oh, but you did. I might be "small minded and ungrateful" but I'm not crazy.

I will only be posting cute sloths in this thread from this point forward. No point arguing with someone who has a god complex. 

[absynth aura]

[spider jerusalem]

Also, how can she prove you've deleted posts when the posts are no longer there?

Supposing she knew that and have said Len has did it, what she stated she didnt say (mixed up people during quote): If she has the URL directly to that post, she would get a 404 error (page not found). Also, if that post was quoted she would have its link on the quote message (just like here, and clicking on that would lead to a 404 error.

[Agonistes]

spooky mormon hell dream.

[Pope Totalfrog]

This'll make it all better Ag.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/v2O0H_t-7Pk&amp;sns=em" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/v2O0H_t-7Pk&amp;sns=em</a>

[Agonistes]

it does.

[imaginary friend]

hottest thread of the last month.

the last several, come to think of it.

[Hayley Fiasco!]

I'm really bummed at what this thread has evolved into. Not the baby sloth pictures, but the stuff between.


Listen. The spam is a problem, right? I'm listening, and I will help and speak up LOUD AND CLEAR, to the rest of Team AFP and whoever it takes about your concerns so that progress can be made. Let's move forward.


I, Hayley, want this forum, The Shadowbox, to live up to its potential of being a community, of being a STRONG community that takes care of each other and is a positive, affirming place to share and be heard and laugh and find joy. I'm sure you all, or at least most of you, share this sentiment.

Now, HOW do we do that? How do we make this place the safe haven it once was for any and every one who shares even the smallest common thread of KNOWING OF (and not even necessarily liking or loving) Amanda Palmer and The Dresden Dolls? Tell me, simply put, what you feel or think needs to happen in order for this place to be fun for you? How to make this place something you will proudly share with new friends/fans?

Quote my post here and reply to it and I will take notes and compile a proper assessment with your feedback and try to prioritize a list of things and features that we need to get going to make this place BETTER. Be realistic, be ambitious, tell me (and tell us, Team AFP) what your thoughts are.

Now, the door has always been open for your input - that's why we have a whole forum section dedicated to it - but in writing this post, I want to make it EXPLICITLY clear that you are being heard, and I am serious about getting things back in order.

Cut out the pettiness, bring that to a thread in a general discussion forum, but here, right HERE, tell me, tell us, what you think will make this place be the best it possibly can be. Let's collaborate. I cannot guarantee when (or even IF) these suggestions will be implemented, but I can guarantee that I will work to bring them forward so they can be seriously considered.

Okay? And as always, you can email or PM me if you wish to discuss these things privately.

[Pope Totalfrog]

I'm really bummed at what this thread has evolved into. Not the baby sloth pictures, but the stuff between.


Listen. The spam is a problem, right? I'm listening, and I will help and speak up LOUD AND CLEAR, to the rest of Team AFP and whoever it takes about your concerns so that progress can be made. Let's move forward.


I, Hayley, want this forum, The Shadowbox, to live up to its potential of being a community, of being a STRONG community that takes care of each other and is a positive, affirming place to share and be heard and laugh and find joy. I'm sure you all, or at least most of you, share this sentiment.

Now, HOW do we do that? How do we make this place the safe haven it once was for any and every one who shares even the smallest common thread of KNOWING OF (and not even necessarily liking or loving) Amanda Palmer and The Dresden Dolls? Tell me, simply put, what you feel or think needs to happen in order for this place to be fun for you? How to make this place something you will proudly share with new friends/fans?

Quote my post here and reply to it and I will take notes and compile a proper assessment with your feedback and try to prioritize a list of things and features that we need to get going to make this place BETTER. Be realistic, be ambitious, tell me (and tell us, Team AFP) what your thoughts are.

Now, the door has always been open for your input - that's why we have a whole forum section dedicated to it - but in writing this post, I want to make it EXPLICITLY clear that you are being heard, and I am serious about getting things back in order.

Cut out the pettiness, bring that to a thread in a general discussion forum, but here, right HERE, tell me, tell us, what you think will make this place be the best it possibly can be. Let's collaborate. I cannot guarantee when (or even IF) these suggestions will be implemented, but I can guarantee that I will work to bring them forward so they can be seriously considered.

Okay? And as always, you can email or PM me if you wish to discuss these things privately.

I just sent you a PM

[slyvia k]

I think a lot of the spam problem could be solved appointing a european moderator (or maybe australian, too, should work? time zones confuse me, sorry). Because in the morning (our morning) browsing the box is really painful, since the mods are all still sleeping

[The Angel Raliel]

indeed we need a responsible person who regularly uses the forum in Europe or Britain to take a gun to them there spam-bots.......oh not sure if there is actually a responsible shadowboxer this side of the atlantic though...I sure as hell am not one!

[The Angel Raliel]

wait we're a demcocracy now???

[Hayley Fiasco!]

how strongly do you feel about this? About voting, or is it general input & dialog before decisions that's important?

wait we're a demcocracy now???

Not yet.

[Pope Totalfrog]

^Voting could turn into a popularity contest, I've seen it happen on other boards and we've had enough drama lately. Keeping us in the loop and allowing us to have a say about the running of the board could be a less drama filled way to go.

If there was to be a vote then a private poll via PM's could work too. 

[N.U.]

The president of the universities law society always turns out to be the prettiest girl that drinks the most, so I get the whole popularity contest thing.

Well it's good to set goals, 

[imaginary friend]

indeed we need a responsible person who regularly uses the forum in Europe or Britain to take a gun to them there spam-bots.......oh not sure if there is actually a responsible shadowboxer this side of the atlantic though...I sure as hell am not one!

dude, they made me a mod - you seriously think there are any qualifications necessary?

[The Angel Raliel]

indeed we need a responsible person who regularly uses the forum in Europe or Britain to take a gun to them there spam-bots.......oh not sure if there is actually a responsible shadowboxer this side of the atlantic though...I sure as hell am not one!

oh good point! (don't you lot be getting any funny ideas though)

dude, they made me a mod - you seriously think there are any qualifications necessary?

[N.U.]

I, too, was a moderator but bowed out at my own request.

[Hayley Fiasco!]

Is it fair to say, awareness and information on change, or potential change, is key and not NECESSARILY direct input and control of the change(s)?

In my curiosity (I have a bachelors in a social science after all), I wonder exactly what the root of this is - I think it's that you want to feel even deeper as part of this community/forum and that perhaps some things happened here that you didn't/don't like and you want to prevent more things happening that you don't like so you want to have say and control and some sort of VOICE, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you need to be, or even want to be, directly responsible for decisions that are to be made but you do want to be part of the process in a way that's not going to leave you feeling left in the dark. (is this assumption/observation even fairly accurate?)

Mod hat back on - at the end of the day there are numerous factors, players, reasons, etc that dictate how and why things are done the way they are and in a perfect world everyone would be happy with the out come, but since that's impossible, the goal really is to make the best outcome possible with the least amount of conflict.

So, hypothetically, say we were to add another moderator - particularly one in the time zones Sylvia suggested (Oz or UK), would you like to know a head of time that this is the plan before a moderator is appointed? and if a new mod was appointed, would you be pissed if you didn't find out until after the fact, even though the door would be open for you to provide feedback and input? Would you prefer that new mods are tested with a trial period - say a few weeks of modding, and then privately ask for input from everyone to make sure things are jelling?


I think I understand what you guys are saying between the lines - because some of it, as a regular ol' poster, I've seen and felt too - you don't want things to change suddenly that affect the atmosphere of this forum without having some sort of position to make your voice heard and influential, because at least then you may have some sort of control, or chance to affect how things are done?
Devil's advocate is that this isn't a democracy, blah blah blah, but I think I've got a good understanding and idea of how to move forward in a recommendation/course of action on this. Please continue this discussion and reply to anything I've written here and please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

^Voting could turn into a popularity contest, I've seen it happen on other boards and we've had enough drama lately. Keeping us in the loop and allowing us to have a say about the running of the board could be a less drama filled way to go.

If there was to be a vote then a private poll via PM's could work too.  

Yes, this actually. Just so we are aware who is in the running for power positions and whether we have opinions on that etc.

The president of the universities law society always turns out to be the prettiest girl that drinks the most, so I get the whole popularity contest thing.

[N.U.]

Just being kept up to date with decisions about/impacting the board would be awesome.

[Rob]

This place worked great for years with just very little nudging by Sean and Brittany and Bill...remember dear old Bill? 

I don't need to be involved in any decision regarding the appointment of any new Mod/Admin.  I only ask that they not be oppressive, overbearing or creepy.

A trial period is not really crucial is it?  Can't the infinite power be revoked at any time should it go to the head of yet another well meaning coot?

All I want are the good old times...a spoon full of sugar with my medicine...My salad days, When I was green in judgment: cold in blood...

...and less spam.

[The Angel Raliel]

well that's me out!

[Pope Totalfrog]

I think I understand what you guys are saying between the lines - because some of it, as a regular ol' poster, I've seen and felt too - you don't want things to change suddenly that affect the atmosphere of this forum without having some sort of position to make your voice heard and influential, because at least then you may have some sort of control, or chance to affect how things are done?
Devil's advocate is that this isn't a democracy, blah blah blah, but I think I've got a good understanding and idea of how to move forward in a recommendation/course of action on this. Please continue this discussion and reply to anything I've written here and please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

The board ran just fine, for a long time, with very little intervention. Then we had a spam invasion. Maybe we should stop change the title from "Global Moderator" to "Spambuster". We don't need moderators in the traditional sense, we just need someone to blast spambots into hell.

[N.U.]

which is the other issue that len alluded to. Every time a moderator sets up a permaban on a spam account, the board gets unstable. Hayley also stated that this issue is the one that cannot be band-aided at present.

[imaginary friend]

any progress on the additional mod front?