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Author Topic: The Campaign of Hate  (Read 26164 times)

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Andy Pants

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2009, 08:13:52 PM »

Truth be told I think the entire election was kind of offensive and dissapointingly juvenile given that the political commentators were talking about Obamas heritage as if it were the only thing worth talking about and giving it greater importance than actual political issues. The whole thing was really quite saddening. If we had actually moved past rediculous categorising and preconceptions about what people can actually achieve and accepted equality then it wouldn't have been such a big fucking deal that a person who supposedly fits into a categorisation for which no can actually give a proper agreed upon definition got into government.

But then seeing everything in terms of a white / black race might just be an Americanism due to the country's history of segregation. I am inclined to belive this as most of the Australian people I've spoken to about these issues see race as an unimportant construct and prefer to see things in terms of nationality first and heritage second. This is probably due to the fact that most Australians heritages are so mixed that it's become rediculous to hold onto these subjective categories. These are the kind of people that Caddy probably considers 'minorities'. Funnily enough in Australia we call them 'ordinary people'.

We call people who consider race a serious sub-category of people in society 'racists'.
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reality doesn't give a damn about our plans.

Quote from: Henry Rollins
Cynicism in nothing but intellectual cowardice. It's basically you not taking the time to deal with what is

caddy

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2009, 08:29:21 PM »

"This is probably due to the fact that most Australians heritages are so mixed that it's become rediculous to hold onto these subjective categories. These are people that Caddy probably considers 'minorities'. Funnily enough in Australia we call them 'ordinary people'."


Well isn't that some shit, because Caddy isn't in Australia, and Andy has not lived in America, and dealt with it's many varied social issues before.

So gtfo my dick.  S'not my fault you fail at every single racial argument you've been in while here on the s.box.  God, now I really wish there were a click/ignore button.
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Andy Pants

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2009, 08:33:42 PM »

"This is probably due to the fact that most Australians heritages are so mixed that it's become rediculous to hold onto these subjective categories. These are people that Caddy probably considers 'minorities'. Funnily enough in Australia we call them 'ordinary people'."


Well isn't that some shit, because Caddy isn't in Australia, and Andy has not lived in America, and dealt with it's many varied social issues before.

So gtfo my dick.  S'not my fault you fail at every single racial argument you've been in while here on the s.box.  God, now I really wish there were a click/ignore button.

I think it's so funny that you take race more seriously than anyone else on this forum. You do realise that many of your ideas encourage segregation right? It seems like you also consider race conflict an issue. Do you consider yourself and your attitudes a part of the solution?
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reality doesn't give a damn about our plans.

Quote from: Henry Rollins
Cynicism in nothing but intellectual cowardice. It's basically you not taking the time to deal with what is

caddy

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2009, 08:39:55 PM »

"This is probably due to the fact that most Australians heritages are so mixed that it's become rediculous to hold onto these subjective categories. These are people that Caddy probably considers 'minorities'. Funnily enough in Australia we call them 'ordinary people'."


Well isn't that some shit, because Caddy isn't in Australia, and Andy has not lived in America, and dealt with it's many varied social issues before.

So gtfo my dick.  S'not my fault you fail at every single racial argument you've been in while here on the s.box.  God, now I really wish there were a click/ignore button.

You do realise that many of your ideas encourage segregation right?

Keep talking.  Which ideas?
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Mockery

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2009, 08:45:46 PM »

Musings and Caddy: Just a quick point, the "they" she's referring to is Obama supporters. She can't use "we" since she wasn't one. I don't think it's meant to have a racial connotation.
Yeah, I never meant to do that. I didn't vote for Obama so when I said they, I meant the people who supported/voted for him.  I didn't think that would cause such a stir.
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Musings

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2009, 09:09:28 PM »

Musings and Caddy: Just a quick point, the "they" she's referring to is Obama supporters. She can't use "we" since she wasn't one. I don't think it's meant to have a racial connotation.
Yeah, I never meant to do that. I didn't vote for Obama so when I said they, I meant the people who supported/voted for him.  I didn't think that would cause such a stir.

Ok, sorry for that point, but the rest still stands.


...

Just as general note, I find it interesting that any topic of difference in identity (sexuality, ethnicity, race) seems to end up into the same argument: we are all the same (and those who recognize difference are asking for discrimination) vs. we are all different (and those who think we are all the same are being blind to injustice that currently exists, as well as the truth and beauty of diversity).

Yes, when we are in some utopian world where all are truly on an equal playing field, maybe we can look at this again.  But we're not even close.  To ignore the problems that exist is...problematic.  To ignore that all should be treated equally but also recognized for individual differences is closing yourself off to the entire range of humanity that exists.

By the way, from what I've heard of Australia, it is not a racially/ethnically blind country -- i.e., they have huge problems between native Australians and Middle Eastern immigrants.  To not recognize that is to perpetuate a problem.
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Andy Pants

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2009, 09:23:35 PM »


Keep talking.  Which ideas?

Your whole black / white classification system. Which you have yet to explain and seem to assume that everyone shares, your disbelief in the idea that race is subjective and your intolerance of the attitude that it is not a meaningful classification. This suggests that all people fit into two distinct groups. It also suggest that there are ingrained differences between these two groups which you fail to identify. And lastly that these differences are something more than a triviality. If you did actually try to identify these differences I think you'd find that they are false more often than not and that just as many people you consider 'white' share these characteristics as those you consider 'black'. This whole belief system encourages segregation. And you do seem to have more of an eye for categorising people than most other people.

I love for example the way you consider me something other in all your attacks against me. You don't even consider the very real (and very true) possibility that I have aboriginal heritage. That's right, according to your warped perception of reality I'm more 'black' than you are. But I'm not stupid enough to trivialise myself and the rest of society in the process by thinking about myself that way. I know that my ancestors were Dutch, German, Irish, English, Scottish and Indigenous. But I don't consider that a fraction as important as the fact that I myself am an Australian, as is anyone else with an Australian citizenship or anyone else who lives in my society.  I do not belong to any 'black' or 'white' race. I don't need to belong to any black or white race. That's fucking retarded. Why sub-categorise myself If I am equal to everyone else? Why segreagate myself from the rest of the people in my society? Especially on the grounds of something as trivial as geneaology as oposed to ideaology?

And I consider my nationality only a fraction as important as the fact that I am a human-being. Ever heard of the human race? The ideas I have and experiences I go through are not unique to my family or nationality, they are universal. All people are my fucking people. And so I am sympathetic to all people.


As for your previous post I think you'll find I haven't lost a single argument about race on the shadowbox either as you've completely failed to disprove me or even argue against any of my points. And it really is sad there isn't an ignore button on this website, then you could just confront these issues with ignorance, like it seems you've been doing for most of your life!
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reality doesn't give a damn about our plans.

Quote from: Henry Rollins
Cynicism in nothing but intellectual cowardice. It's basically you not taking the time to deal with what is

Andy Pants

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2009, 09:26:21 PM »

Musings and Caddy: Just a quick point, the "they" she's referring to is Obama supporters. She can't use "we" since she wasn't one. I don't think it's meant to have a racial connotation.
Yeah, I never meant to do that. I didn't vote for Obama so when I said they, I meant the people who supported/voted for him.  I didn't think that would cause such a stir.
By the way, from what I've heard of Australia, it is not a racially/ethnically blind country -- i.e., they have huge problems between native Australians and Middle Eastern immigrants.  To not recognize that is to perpetuate a problem.

We do indeed, but those people are an actual minority and considered by most people to be racists. That's the difference between Australia and America those who acknowledge race as a serious category and take it as seriously as idealogical categories are the people causing conflict as oposed to the people fighting the conflict.
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reality doesn't give a damn about our plans.

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Cynicism in nothing but intellectual cowardice. It's basically you not taking the time to deal with what is

Musings

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2009, 09:41:07 PM »

Oh, so you mean like John Howard?  I thought it was agreed upon by Australians that he was an ignorant ass, but maybe I'm wrong.  To look at violent clashes between two ethnic groups and not see a racial component is dumb.  To not see that Aborigines still suffer the consequences of early prejudice is dumb.  He pronounced, "we are the same" while actively trying to pull other people under.

Let me know if I'm wrong, as I'm less familiar with Australian politics, but this is the incident that comes to mind: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/australians-racist-no-way-says-howard/2005/12/12/1134236005950.html
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caddy

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2009, 10:05:31 PM »

Your whole black / white classification system.

I have a system/classification?  Since when?  Or did you take some sarcasm over in the News section too literally?

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Which you have yet to explain and seem to assume that everyone shares, your disbelief in the idea that race is subjective and your intolerance of the attitude that it is not a meaningful classification. This suggests that all people fit into two distinct groups. It also suggest that there are ingrained differences between these two groups which you fail to identify.

Actually, I think you assume far more often than I do.  Alongside that, I believe I wasn't alone on the idea of race not being subjective.  Alongside even that, I can go quote myself actually not saying anything that suggests a "You vs Them" ideology.  Seems somebody got an A in word twisting.

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And lastly that these differences are something more than a triviality.

If we were all the same, with nothing interesting and different to bring to the table, the world would be a fucking boring place.

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If you did actually try to identify these differences I think you'd find that they are false more often than not and that just as many people you consider 'white' share these characteristics as those you consider 'black'. This whole belief system encourages segregation. And you do seem to have more of an eye for categorising people than most other people.

Quote me on categorizing people.  Anywhere on the board.  As a matter of fact, I tend to point out the problem people have with measuring somebody by how much of one or the other they have in them.  As with Amanda's post, I found it interesting she had to physically point out that Obama was half-black, instead of just black/African-American.  I always find it interesting that every single white/non-minority person points out that Obama is half black, and, "I don't know why everybody's so happy, I mean c'mon, his mom is fucking white anyway.  And was he even born here?!"  That over-classification that of people that leaves a nasty taste in my mouth when I have to hear/read it.  That's the issue I keep having with people in that regards, and yes, I'll bring it up. 

As for the rest of these characteristics...what?  Characteristics?  Since when have I ever posted about certain characteristics believe merely blacks and whites?  *lifts a brow*  What characteristics?  What "belief" system?  What eye?  Far as I'm concerned, I think you're exaggerating.

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I love for example the way you consider me something other in all your attacks against me.

Last time I checked, I made all of...what?  Four posts to you in our last encounter?  And that was only because you were so huffy because you were getting attacked, that you were acting like somebody with some egregious past who was using that negative energy to attack people with.  You were rude, condescending, and insisting that if nobody agreed with you, then we were all grade schoolers.  I merely pointed out that if you were so affected, there must be something to it.  As for other, *lifts brow* ...I was probably taking a jab at you.  Read one jab.

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You don't even consider the very real

As of right now, I don't consider you to be very realistic. 

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(and very true) possibility that I have aboriginal heritage.

Ah, is that what this is all about.

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That's right, according to your warped perception of reality I'm more 'black' than you are. But I'm not stupid enough to trivialise myself and the rest of society in the process by thinking about myself that way. I know that my ancestors were Dutch, German, Irish, English, Scottish and Indigenous.

*laughs*  Man, you must live in a nice bright world.  Go ahead.  As a matter of fact, I'm half myself, but I don't lean on that.

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But I don't consider that a fraction as important as the fact that I myself am an Australian, as is anyone else with an Australian citizenship or anyone else who lives in my society.  I do not belong to any 'black' or 'white' race. I don't need to belong to any black or white race. That's fucking retarded. Why sub-categorise myself If I am equal to everyone else? Why segreagate myself from the rest of the people in my society? Especially on the grounds of something as trivial as geneaology as oposed to ideaology?

You gathered all of this, from the four-five posts I made towards you?  And mostly rather small posts at that?  Two good sized posts making a point that there's nothing wrong with people accepting who they are, and the cultures they come from, so long as they don't believe their cultures are better than others?  Because I think it's awesome to learn about different people's nature, and backgrounds, and from their experiences?  Once again, do you think that just because you hate the fact that people do come from different backgrounds, that those backgrounds are going anywhere?

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And I consider my nationality only a fraction as important as the fact that I am a human-being. Ever heard of the human race? The ideas I have and experiences I go through are not unique to my family or nationality, they are universal. All people are my fucking people. And so I am sympathetic to all people.

Uh huh.  *tongue click*


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As for your previous post I think you'll find I haven't lost a single argument about race on the shadowbox either as you've completely failed to disprove me or even argue against any of my points. And it really is sad there isn't an ignore button on this website, then you could just confront these issues with ignorance, like it seems you've been doing for most of your life!

I'm glad you've been around for most of my life.  In some states here, we call that either abuse of the assumption button, or stalking.

You know, after reading that, I might have an aneurysm.  I've never seen somebody try so hard to slaughter somebody's identity.  I must have really touched a chord with you, and it's a good thing the people here who matter actually know me well enough not to believe most (read: all) of what just came out of your ignorant little mouth.

:)
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caddy

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2009, 10:13:22 PM »

Actually, now that we mention it.  *ahem*  My initial post wasn't rude to you.  Though...yours was to me, and most everybody else.  Let's see.  *dig dug*


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I see race but I see it as both subjective and meaningless.

I don't.  I'm proud of my race and heritage.  I don't even care if those with a European background are proud of their race/ethnicity and heritage.  How can you expect others to accept and understand your culture, if you see your own as "meaningless and subjective"?  It's silly to avoid race, because various races have so much to offer the whole.


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When I say it is meaningless what I mean is that its meaning is intangible and could mean anything depending on the individual. It is now a free associated symbol. Most conflict over the issue of race emerges from people failing to understand this concept. And assuming others think of it the same way they do.


*tongue click*

I would love to spend my long days living in your world.  Must be padded.  *sighs*  It would be nice to say that race is just this social construct we should get over.  Unfortunately, that's not always how the world works.


After that, you went on the rampage.  And interestingly enough, it was Ratsforcandy who noted that you were "beating around the bush" on something.  And here's the rest of the last go 'round.  http://www.theshadowbox.net/forum/index.php?topic=7050.30

Damn.  Sucks when the person you're fighting has proof against your allegations, don't it?
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ratsforcandy

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2009, 10:53:42 PM »

As for your previous post I think you'll find I haven't lost a single argument about race on the shadowbox either as you've completely failed to disprove me or even argue against any of my points. And it really is sad there isn't an ignore button on this website, then you could just confront these issues with ignorance, like it seems you've been doing for most of your life!

Stop with the fucking ego-trip. It's getting really annoying.
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caddy

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2009, 10:57:57 PM »

I'm starting to think he's so afraid of acknowledging other people's cultures and race, he's actually the biggest racist on this board.
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ratsforcandy

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2009, 12:41:46 AM »

And you know what Andy, realize that there's more than one way to live life. If I like eating my cereal with water, than fucking deal with it. I like acknowledging differences in race, culture, and heritage. Maybe it's because I appreciate the diversity so much. I love living in America, and I love working with people at CVS because I'm in touch with so many different parts of the world in one location. Just like that guy who came in from Afghanistan yesterday. Get off your high horse, stop talking down to us, and realize that we're not all going to think the way you think, and you haven't won any arguments. No one has one anything, we've just went back and forth on what we thought. And if this was a debate, you didn't persuade any judges to think your way pal, so suck on that. Your insults and condescending attitude towards those who think differently than you is getting to be really annoying. And what makes it worse is the way you try to dance around with words and try so hard to be eloquent. The way your words string together sounds forced and like you're trying to put everyone down, and it's not attractive. Excuse us for thinking another way than you pal, get over it and stop trying to act like your way of living is the better way. To hit you with a quote:

"There is no one right way to live."
— Daniel Quinn (Ishmael)

Stop telling everyone else otherwise. I like the way I see race and culture, back off and stop telling me I'm wrong.
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Goodbye-Umbrella

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Re: The Campaign of Hate
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2009, 01:30:31 AM »

By the way, from what I've heard of Australia, it is not a racially/ethnically blind country -- i.e., they have huge problems between native Australians and Middle Eastern immigrants.  To not recognize that is to perpetuate a problem.

im not really arguing against anyone here, just thought i'd throw in the point that "native australians" would be aboriginals, who as far as i know dont have a particular problem with middle eastern immigrants... but you probably meant like australians in general who arent from the middle east... i nwhich case yes there is a huge problem and the problem is BOGANS!

stupid bogans who wear australia flags as capes on australia day, are uneducated and raised to not tollerate anyone whose different. it's those intollerant people who feel that muslims (who according to them is anyone who looks vaugley middle eastern) should just not be allowed in australia, and they have no real reason for this... also they'll go to mardi gras as an excuse to get really drunk and take lots of drugs, then the very next day go back to saying "fags and dykes cant raise kids properly"- god they cant raise they're children properly, if theyre the parents of the 14 year old running round with australia flag capes screaming "AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI" then going and fighting anyone who they feel doesnt look like they belong in australia...

sigh rant over...
anyway in response to what everyones been talking about, in australia race isnt a HUGE thing, but racism definatley does exist, because some people are just.. well stupid... or scared of what they dont know... either i guess


(oh sorry by the way, rats, what is the CVS?)
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