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Author Topic: Suicide Solution  (Read 14719 times)

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85283-071

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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #105 on: September 13, 2008, 12:50:57 PM »

So, if you might go around again, might it be something to consider... what impact will the way you exit this incarnation have on your next?

I know that people, when they commit suicide, are in a state of mind that is beyond what I have experienced. Obviously, that it self-defining. I knew a guy with severe, clinical depression problems. His sister pushed him to get tested for HIV, and he found out he was positive. He ran through a window of an upper floor apartment, killing himself. I don't think he intended to hurt of be selfish. I don't think he was being childish or inconsiderate. He was probably beyond these considerations. I say the things I say about suicide, not to condemn those who've done the deed, but to offer a perspective to those who might. If one person embraces a perspective that keeps them from ending things before they have even had a chance to be as happy as they would have, eventually... or if they think about any of the ideas... then a good thing has happened.

To go back to one of your ideas though; we can't know how anyone else is feeling.

"Therefore, if someone feels like they can't go on living any more, and that there's no other alternative, then for them, suicide is the right thing to do. It's a personal thing, and can only be appreciated from their perspective - everyone else's reactions to are essentially irrelevant. What's more, I don't think that anyone considering suicide is gonna ignore how other people are going to have to deal with it, and if that's not enough motivation for them to change their minds, then who are we to argue with it?"

Couldn't we say that to about a rapist?
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CeeGBee

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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #106 on: September 13, 2008, 01:02:52 PM »

To go back to one of your ideas though; we can't know how anyone else is feeling.

"Therefore, if someone feels like they can't go on living any more, and that there's no other alternative, then for them, suicide is the right thing to do. It's a personal thing, and can only be appreciated from their perspective - everyone else's reactions to are essentially irrelevant. What's more, I don't think that anyone considering suicide is gonna ignore how other people are going to have to deal with it, and if that's not enough motivation for them to change their minds, then who are we to argue with it?"

Couldn't we say that to about a rapist?
While I agree with your larger point, the fact that a rapist, by definition, inflicts his screwed-up perspective upon
someone else renders this argument invalid.  As most of us here have learned, rape is all about control.  Suicide
more likely reflects a feeling that one has no control, so the suicidal individual is more analogous to the rape victim.
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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #107 on: September 13, 2008, 02:08:13 PM »

I see the differences, but a suicide hurts people too. I think Heather could lend some perspective here.

Rape being about control is too universally stated. It's not a scientific conclusion. It is a feminist talking point. Some people have no impulse control. Some people act in desperation. Some act in ignorance of the impact they have. Remember, date rape is rape too. You don't think some guys are just selfish and want to finish what was started? There are a lot of people in the field of sexual behavioral sciences that reject the idea that rape is (and by is, we mean universally) about control. Susan Brownmiller was not a scientist.... or even a social worker. The thing about rape that most of us were taught, was her belief about the politics of rape.

That's a bit of a digression though. The rapist and the suicidal person oth make a choice. They are both compelled by something that we can only relate to if we share their perspective. Both actions cause painful trauma for others. Both are extensions of personal trauma, and both are acted upon with the self in mind.
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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #108 on: September 13, 2008, 08:19:37 PM »

...or they're compelled by something we all experience every day, but we have the [whatever] to set the compulsion
aside, whether it requires conscious effort, or if it doesn't even manifest to the extent of a conscious thought.
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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #109 on: September 14, 2008, 03:51:47 AM »

Possibly. Probably. I don't know if I have experienced the same feelings as rapists or suicide cases, but you are probably right. Still, in both cases there is a better decision, and I can't just act like the chorus of "life just doesn't seem worth living sometimes" is a healthy state of mind to embrace.
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Indja

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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2008, 07:48:00 AM »

A-a-a-and.... I'm back to being sleepy and confused. Man, I wish my brain would keep up with itself. There's stuff I want to say and don't know how, and feelings that I can't even /think/ in words... Pshyah. I need a Dumbass Translator.
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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #111 on: September 14, 2008, 01:04:08 PM »

A-a-a-and.... I'm back to being sleepy and confused. Man, I wish my brain would keep up with itself. There's stuff I want to say and don't know how, and feelings that I can't even /think/ in words... Pshyah. I need a psychobabble Translator.
Sorry...
Nyyorkskyyikwawks': Maybe what drives people to suicide is some feeling that other people have never felt, and could never understand.
                Perhaps it's like the complusion that drives rapists...


Me: Or maybe both rapists and people who try to kill themselves feel things just like the rest of us, but they can't deal with those feelings
                in a way that doesn't involve suicide or rape.


Nyyorkskyyikwawks': You may be right.  We probably feel the same things, but those people deal with them in the wrong ways.



I really need to read/see A Clockwork Orange....
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Indja

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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #112 on: September 14, 2008, 01:14:16 PM »

A-a-a-and.... I'm back to being sleepy and confused. Man, I wish my brain would keep up with itself. There's stuff I want to say and don't know how, and feelings that I can't even /think/ in words... Pshyah. I need a psychobabble Translator.
Sorry...
Nyyorkskyyikwawks': Maybe what drives people to suicide is some feeling that other people have never felt, and could never understand.
                Perhaps it's like the complusion that drives rapists...


Me: Or maybe both rapists and people who try to kill themselves feel things just like the rest of us, but they can't deal with those feelings
                in a way that doesn't involve suicide or rape.


Nyyorkskyyikwawks': You may be right.  We probably feel the same things, but those people deal with them in the wrong ways.



I really need to read/see A Clockwork Orange....


Ooh, I didn't meant that you're dumbasses! I meant so's I could translate my own dumbassyness into English and then you'd know what I meant. Sorry! But the pyschobabble translation, also useful ^_^  And yes, you should absolutely read A Clockwork Orange - read it before you watch it, and then watch the damn hell out of it.
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Purtlepootle

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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #113 on: September 21, 2008, 04:05:50 PM »

I think it's really important that people talk about suicidal thoughts. Sometimes just by being able to explore the thoughts that make them want to end their life it can help them resolve those thoughts and maybe help them seek appropriate support.

p.s. it's probably a reasonable time to mention The Samaritans number if you're in the UK-it's 08457 90 90 90 or you can email them if you prefer. Sorry I don't know numbers for elsewhere but there should always be somewhere you can call
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Re: Suicide Solution
« Reply #114 on: September 21, 2008, 04:08:58 PM »

I think it's really important that people talk about suicidal thoughts. Sometimes just by being able to explore the thoughts that make them want to end their life it can help them resolve those thoughts and maybe help them seek appropriate support.

p.s. it's probably a reasonable time to mention The Samaritans number if you're in the UK-it's 08457 90 90 90 or you can email them if you prefer. Sorry I don't know numbers for elsewhere but there should always be somewhere you can call
worth repeating on every forum any of you go to
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