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Author Topic: The Grand Theft Controversy  (Read 7861 times)

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thestrand

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The Grand Theft Controversy
« on: September 13, 2012, 11:49:43 AM »

http://www.webinknow.com/2012/09/entrenched-music-business-hates-free-content-again-blasting-amanda-palmer.html

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/12/rockers-playing-for-beer-fair-play/?hp


What does everybody here think? As a non-musician (but still a quasi-professional artist), I agree with Amanda's point exactly. This is for one night, and it's more about giving your fans an amazing opportunity to play onstage with their hero. Everybody's happy, everybody gets beer. What's the problem?

(I also made the mistake of reading some of the comments from the prefix article. So hateful!  :'(
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N.U.

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 12:22:03 PM »

Anyone who bucks the RIAA mob-encouraged (seriously, look at the RIAA's tactics) system has to deal with this criticism, but so long as you know where it originates, there should be no issue knowing what the real issue is; RIAA losing power.
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NikosGr

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 12:22:46 PM »

i wonder what these people think about the olympic games' volunteers. the games couldn't happen without them, there are thousands of them, and they are paid nothing. they're 'only' offered a chance to be part in something amazing that happens not so often. at the same time corporations, advertising agencies, etc make millions out of it without offering anything meaningful.
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citizenoftheplanet

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 12:38:45 PM »

hahaha my favourite comment on the blog:

"Oh, by the way, can I steal your albums? I can't afford to pay for them. xoxoxo, The Surly Violist."

YES ACTUALLY YOU CAN DOWNLOAD ALL OF HER MUSIC FOR FREE.

BHA/Sarah

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 01:05:10 PM »

i wonder what these people think about the olympic games' volunteers. the games couldn't happen without them, there are thousands of them, and they are paid nothing. they're 'only' offered a chance to be part in something amazing that happens not so often. at the same time corporations, advertising agencies, etc make millions out of it without offering anything meaningful.

I hadn't thought about the olympics but that's a really good point, and I'm sure anyone involved in that would be very quick to hammer home how it's a once in a lifetime experience which is totally worth it - so why should this be any different?
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BATTEREDxBRIDExLUVR!

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2012, 01:52:53 PM »

the grand THEFT orchestra... i mean, there is really no attempt to deceive anyone on amanda's part.
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I do not want to live to archive my own life.
I see it everywhere around me, especially with the popularity of web diaries, forums, and cell phones that take pictures.
I do not want to fall into the subtle trap of truly believing I Blog Therefore I Am.
amanda, 2005-04-15

A Needle Pulling Veins

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2012, 03:57:44 AM »

the lack of research on behalf of the naysayers into where the 1.2 million is going, and the fact that she was crowd-sourcing FANS as volunteer musicians for ONE NIGHT, is astounding. this debate is ridiculous.
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NikosGr

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2012, 04:54:53 AM »

this debate is ridiculous.
it is even beyond ridiculous, but i'm really hoping amanda doesn't lose any of her energy or enthousiasm in this.i hope she keeps enjoying these shows as much as we do. this is one of the greatest phases in her career and i want her to look back to it one day with nothing other than positive feelings
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Mr. Leave Me Alone

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2012, 05:02:50 AM »

So these people think they are somehow defending these people from the big scary Amanda who wants them as her slaves, when really they are criticising their decision to help her out?

It's reminding me of all that 'ART/DESIGN/ETC. COMPETITIONS ARE BAD BECAUSE THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE BY DISGUISING FREE WORKAS SOME KIND OF PRIVILEGE/ACHIEVEMENT' stuff that was around (which I didn't pay any attention to but a lot of people on my facebook feed posted about) and are these people assuming it's the same thing? Because Amanda isn't exactly going 'WOW, IF YOU ARE TALENTED ENOUGH, YOU MIGHT EVEN GET TO DO THIS!'
It's coming off more to me like 'can you help me do this?'

If I am making no sense, ignore me, I'm only paying the tiniest amount of attention to this because I think it's insane.
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absynth aura

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2012, 05:11:14 AM »

Amanda posted an open letter on her tumblr in reply to a musician who wrote to her against the volunteering thing.
I would post a link, but I'm on my phone so I can't, but it is a really good read, and Amanda makes a really valid argument for why she does it. Which probably won't change people's minds, but makes a good point.
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NikosGr

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2012, 05:18:05 AM »

here's the letter. it's on her blog too, and i agree it is a very good read.

i really liked Kyle's quote too

Quote from: kyle cassidy


    As someone who has worked, frequently, for free in the past and will do so many times in the future. I have this to say:

    You do the ones you have to do so that you can do the ones that you want to do.

    That’s the way it is; for every artist. You do the unfun jobs that pay well so that you can work for free on the ones that you believe in. And if you work hard enough and the stars align, the good ones bubble to the top and you make money.

    That’s just how it works.

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Morpheus Laughing

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2012, 05:28:33 AM »

Here’s a thought: Couchsurfing and staying at a fan's house.

Bed&breakfast businesses might be after her next...
   
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Cheddars Cousin

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2012, 02:28:50 PM »

Yeah.

Even though she stayed at my house "for free", ( i got passes, which technically cost her nothing), it cost me a lot of money to put the whole crew up.  I expected nothing in return, and was pleasantly surprised.

I would do it all again and still would expect no compensation.  No one is being taken for more than they are willing to give.  Have at it.

Mitholas

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2012, 05:30:24 PM »

This debate is silly and pointless, but it might ultimately fall under the "only bad press is no press" category.
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Miss Sahara

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Re: The Grand Theft Controversy
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 05:57:56 PM »

Here’s a thought: Couchsurfing and staying at a fan's house.

Bed&breakfast businesses might be after her next...
 

well...i think there is a difference between such a business and a self-employed artist sturggling to make a living...

to all the people saying the discussion is ridiculous. i don't think it is ridiculous. i know quite a few well-trained musicians that are struggling to find payed gigs and i'm not surprised that they find it upsetting if a well known artist who makes money in a gig doesn't want to pay them if they are part of the gig. music is, after all, often regarded as a luxury and/or something fun so musicians get asked to do things for free way too much...and even if this might lead to better and bigger things, and payed things, it loos kinda rude to EXPECT people to show up for free to them. so i understand why many people make it a black and white thing to protect the rights of musicians. this is a bit like unpayed internships that make you believe it's for the experience when in reality they just want to save money. and the problem is, that even if you don't do the free thing because you can not afford it, someone else will do it...and after a while it becomes normal that these things are unpayed.
BUT in this case,  i think the problem is not really that amanda is asking her fans to help her out on a single night (everyone enjoys it, right? i also WISH i hadn't stopped playing the violin in 7th grade now!! ahh) but rather that other bands might start to do the same and make it a rule, but  WITHOUT grasping the special circumstances of amanda's case:
+ she's openly asking her fans to participate, mostly amateurs, but fans who love to be there
+ she probably wouldn't hire pro musicians otherwise so no jobs are lost
+ she herself gives her fans a lot for free, as well (her music, and her time...i think she hangs out after every show to talk to people while other musicians's fans sometimes pay hundreds of euros/dollars for a single meet and greet)
+ participants might not get money, but since they are fans, they'd probably would have bought a ticket, also some merch and drinks...and if all of that is free, they save probably about 60 euros or even more...
+ in an internship they lure you in for a vague experience and so you can do better things AFTERWARDS. everyone of the musicians here knows exactly what playing there entails and participants want to do EXACTLY THAT..not use it as a gateway to other things.
+ she always trusts that when people can, they help each other out...even if you can't pay for stuff. in the same way she encourages to download her music and pay later when you can. other bands and businesses don't work in that way.

she has quite a lot of media attention now, so i really understand the fear that other bands might imitate her. even if the other bands, however, want to have professional musicians to play with them who practice and perfectly play the stuff at shows, rather than (very) good amateurs who LOVE to be part of the spectacle and it hence might not even work for them to not pay them...

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