THESHADOWBOX.NET

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Want some free music? Most of AFP's discography (as well as The Dolls, side-projects, and more) is available for free+donation on Bandcamp

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 ... 10  All   Go Down

Author Topic: another week, another mass shooting in the USA  (Read 16606 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JohnnyDBBUK

  • Proud custodian of the Neville sisters souls
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4358
  • Where in time is Brian Viglione?
    • ~Gaslight Cabaret Club~
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2012, 09:49:29 AM »

@N.U
Aye whatever dude. I know a lot of mentally ill people who go off on one but can't cause this much death and misery.
no fucker can stand by the sale of automatic weapons to the public. Anyone wants to play Rambo go join the fucking Marines.
Children shot 11 times each with bullets altered to fragment after impact.
Automatic fire. no chance of rushing/disarming the prick.
Tired of hearing America's excuses for this shit happening every year.

Miranda.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1303
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2012, 09:51:27 AM »

@Miranda: It's like you have to be there. You feel like you have to bear witness. You feel like you have to observe every nuance, memorize every detail, and open yourself up to feeling the pain really deeply - otherwise you're not doing the victims justice. They deserve you to go through this for them because they went through hell, and because the victims who survived are going to be going through hell for a very long time.


yes! that is pretty much exactly how I feel. I think though that you are right & it isn't really the proper way to handle a situation like this. I am so glad that you understand. I am going to try and step back from all the news and just mourn for those people without reading all of the information that is being put out.
Logged
I could live for nothing but kissing.

5 points to the house of your choosing for awesome crochet skills.

imaginary friend

  • Enigmagnetic
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 14904
  • up in flames
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2012, 11:16:52 AM »

The gun argument is a red herring. This is a mental health issue.

You're 40, right?

In your lifetime, over 1.2 million of our fellow Americans have died by the gun, and another 2.8 million have been wounded by them.

That's an awful lot of herrings.

N.U.

  • Initials... OF DOOM!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2258
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2012, 11:17:44 AM »

@N.U
Aye whatever dude. I know a lot of mentally ill people who go off on one but can't cause this much death and misery.
no fucker can stand by the sale of automatic weapons to the public. Anyone wants to play Rambo go join the fucking Marines.
Children shot 11 times each with bullets altered to fragment after impact.
Automatic fire. no chance of rushing/disarming the prick.
Tired of hearing America's excuses for this shit happening every year.

Yeah, because other places that have gun bans never have any violence.

As I said, the gun argument is a red herring.
Logged

N.U.

  • Initials... OF DOOM!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2258
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2012, 11:18:26 AM »

The gun argument is a red herring. This is a mental health issue.

You're 40, right?

In your lifetime, over 1.2 million of our fellow Americans have died by the gun, and another 2.8 million have been wounded by them.

That's an awful lot of herrings.

Let me ask you a question.

How many lives were saved during that same timeframe because somebody was armed?
Logged

imaginary friend

  • Enigmagnetic
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 14904
  • up in flames
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2012, 11:21:27 AM »

I give up. How many?

N.U.

  • Initials... OF DOOM!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2258
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2012, 11:53:36 AM »

I give up. How many?

That is precisely my point. They aren't tracked. Nobody knows. As such, the presentation of "facts" around this debate are heavily slanted because it is impossible to do a direct side-by-side comparison of the only two figures that matter: Gun Deaths versus lives saved by guns.
Logged

sangrebloom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1032
  • I'm working toward something, I don't know what...
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2012, 01:37:54 PM »

I just feel there isn't enough education on guns and their impact in very respect...they are too much power require little if any thought to them and their use. 
Logged
I had to google pegging.

"I'm generally confused - I can't hear you over my obnoxious wealth"

Indja Points:40

Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 810
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2012, 02:18:45 PM »

@N.U.: Can't this be a multifaceted issue? I think mental health is a big part of it, but I think gun control is important as well. My older sister says that our society is 'broken' and our moral compasses are skewed in general, which is a contributing factor. I'm not touching that argument though, it's too difficult a point to get a gauge on or to argue for.
Regardless, this isn't an issue that is as simple as one or two points. There weren't one or two things that were the main problems that caused this - you can't point to gun control, or even the mental health system, and definitively say that if things had been different this wouldn't have happened.

But do you really believe that we shouldn't have any stricter of gun control? No more regulations? Not a better (or different) registration system? Do you really believe what we've got going now is working just fine, and there's no need to tweak it?
Or are you just against outright banning?
Logged

N.U.

  • Initials... OF DOOM!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2258
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2012, 02:27:26 PM »

I've said quite the opposite. If I had my way, I would require ALL sales, business or private, of guns to be reported through the BATF. That takes care of the end-around used by most folks who aren't allowed to buy guns to buy guns. It also hits home the point that there is a responsibility on behalf of all gun owners to make certain guns aren't getting into the wrong hands with any amount of ease.

Additionally, I'd require gun safety courses to be taught before any license to carry (open or concealed) is granted. I'd also leave open the option for the gun safety instructor to recommend a mental eval for passage if they don't feel right about it.

Now these rules, which seem fairly basic, also violate the 2nd Amendment.
Logged

Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 810
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2012, 02:38:03 PM »

Well, I'm still new to the board and you haven't said it in here so I haven't seen it.

Those regulations all seem incredibly reasonable. I don't know very much about the second amendment - like next to nothing. So how do those violate it? Does it literally just say that everyone has a right to bear arms? Because that sounds a bit general.
Logged

imaginary friend

  • Enigmagnetic
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 14904
  • up in flames
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2012, 02:47:35 PM »

I give up. How many?

That is precisely my point. They aren't tracked. Nobody knows. As such, the presentation of "facts" around this debate are heavily slanted because it is impossible to do a direct side-by-side comparison of the only two figures that matter: Gun Deaths versus lives saved by guns.

So...in your mind, some theoretical Successful Instances of Defense trump 30,000 real and documented American deaths every year.

Ok,then.

N.U.

  • Initials... OF DOOM!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2258
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2012, 03:18:27 PM »

I give up. How many?

That is precisely my point. They aren't tracked. Nobody knows. As such, the presentation of "facts" around this debate are heavily slanted because it is impossible to do a direct side-by-side comparison of the only two figures that matter: Gun Deaths versus lives saved by guns.

So...in your mind, some theoretical Successful Instances of Defense trump 30,000 real and documented American deaths every year.

Ok,then.

Yup. I sure do. Think about this; the shooter (whose name I refuse to learn or repeat) only shot himself because first responders were moving in. That tells me the shooter would have been content to continue the spree. If you count the 29 (I think that was where the count topped out) that were senselessly killed in this event, then we must also think about those who were spared when the shooter killed himself instead of continuing his rampage.
Logged

N.U.

  • Initials... OF DOOM!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2258
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2012, 03:26:28 PM »

Additionally, the CDC lists the top 15 causes of death (in 2009) in the US as follows:
1. Diseases of heart (heart disease) - 599,413
2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer) - 567,628
3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases - 137,353
4. Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke) - 128,842
5. Accidents (unintentional injuries) - 118,021
6. Alzheimer’s disease - 79,003
7. Diabetes mellitus (diabetes) - 68,705
8. Influenza and pneumonia - 53,692
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney disease) - 48,935
10. Intentional self-harm (suicide) - 36,909
11. Septicemia
12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (hypertension)
14. Parkinson’s disease
15. Assault (homicide)

Now, from this list (from the CDC), we can see there are a great many preventable causes of death that are much much greater than gun-related deaths. Suicide (#10) is a mental health issue. Chronic Liver disease is entirely avoidable in 99% of cases. High Blood Pressure (Hypertension/Hypertensive renal disease) is also entirely avoidable.

If we look to outlaw a tool who greatest place of use is homicide, why aren't we doing a thing about the 14 causes of death in front of it as well?
Logged

Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 810
Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2012, 03:51:03 PM »

Things are being done about heart disease, cancer, Alzheimer's, diabetes, etc.
Nearly every single disease, illness, or condition on that list is being studied and researched on some level.
Medical advances are being made. The pharmaceutical companies come out with new drugs on a semi-regular basis, and due to the research that's been published, it's become easier to treat some of these diseases and conditions on a preventative level (as well as catch them early). For many of the conditions, it's entirely feasible to treat them holistically and without medication, due to being able to catch them early on.
There are constant PSAs for some of them - awareness in the public is being raised, so that people will (theoretically) take better care of their bodies in the first place.

It's ridiculous to make sweeping statements such as "we aren't doing a thing" about them. That's an incredibly flawed statement and it makes your whole position look weak.
You just proved literally nothing.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 ... 10  All   Go Up