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Author Topic: another week, another mass shooting in the USA  (Read 16607 times)

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Rose

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2012, 06:19:20 PM »

Paranoid Americans clutching their weaponry instead of trusting their appointed officials to protect them.
I am writing this from Derry, N.Ireland where I know for a fact I am in a city with hundreds of illegal paramilitary weapons
no more than possibly 15minutes walk from my family home and guess what.
I sleep soundly. I sleep without the need for a glock on top of my copy of American Gods.

You are not Mad Max. You live in a sort of civilized society yet cling to the yeehaw gun toting days.
Fucking grow up.
I am praying Obama continues to be a ballsy president and changes things for the better.
Ohmigod, exactly this. REALLY. PEOPLE. I was trying to have this conversation with my sister today. We do not live in a third world, or second world country. If we revolutionize, if we for some reason organize enough to "overthrow" the government it will not be the Arab Spring. It will not be such a violent revolution - it will be a pervasive, slow, and relatively legal one.
And we have a system of checks and balances. Our system is perpetually flawed, but it works to the point that the government is not going to come stomping into our homes, squishing us and our rights.
Anyone who calls me naive for believing this would be considered just as (crazyand)naive to believe that the government is going to suddenly start violently oppressing us, and that we will need to rise up against it or defend ourselves against it. Anyone who uses that as an excuse, and I've heard an abhorrent amount use it as one, is paranoid and borderline delusional.

And unless you live in the inner city, in an area where the crime rate is high, you do not need a gun for personal protection. Buy a taser if you're that scared and you live outside a dangerous area.
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Rose

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2012, 06:20:53 PM »

Paranoid Americans clutching their weaponry instead of trusting their appointed officials to protect them.
I am writing this from Derry, N.Ireland where I know for a fact I am in a city with hundreds of illegal paramilitary weapons
no more than possibly 15minutes walk from my family home and guess what.
I sleep soundly. I sleep without the need for a glock on top of my copy of American Gods.

You are not Mad Max. You live in a sort of civilized society yet cling to the yeehaw gun toting days.
Fucking grow up. I am praying Obama continues to be a ballsy president and changes things for the better.

President Obama has a D- rating from the Brady institute because of his lack of supporting any gun control legislation at any elected position he has held.
Are you arguing for the sake of arguing? I feel like you're trolling.
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N.U.

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #62 on: December 18, 2012, 06:23:39 PM »

Here's the funny thing: I don't own one. However I have seen (and been quite close to) two major incidents of gun violence plus another personal one. The most recent was the Aurora theater shooting. The other one was Columbine, which rewrote the book in terms of media coverage and the way police deal with things like this.

The personal involved one was over Thanksgiving weekend, 1995. My best friend's mother invited me over for Thanksgiving, so I spent the weekend there. However, that Friday night, my best friend's mom's disgruntle ex0husband called and wanted to talk with my friend's Mom. Keep in mind that it's 10:30 at night and she was already in bed. I explained this and he hung up only to call back two minutes later doing the 8 year old "Can I PUH-LEEEEEEASE speak with (insert name here)?" to which I told him that as I was a guest there, it was not my place to wake her up. He tell me he's going to come over (at least a 30 minute drive) and that I wasn't going to stand in his way.

I proceed to call my friend (who was out with his then GF) and left a brief synopsis on his voicemail and for him to come home immediately.

It was me, alone in the country with a pistol and a sleeping mother in the next room.

I kept the pistol out of sight as I wanted to assess the situation. He came in with a baseball bat, had an obvious slur and seemed a little twitchy/amped up. Knowing this piece of work had a bad coke habit on top of being a drunk gave me all the info I needed. I decided that, as I view guns as always the weapon of absolute last resort, to take care of him personally.

With a baseball bat, the trick is to get right up into the bat-wielder's face before they can hit you with the bat. Inside of their arm's reach, the bat becomes completely ineffective. So I took me and the guy through the glass door to the porch and through the glass door to the yard. Doucheface went from being threatening with his baseball bat to trying to get me off of him. BFF's mom grabbed the bat and refused to let it go. It was then that I informed him that I was half his age, twice as angry, and could keep this up all night. The next move was his.

What he didn't know is I had already dialed 911 and hung up; something that brings about an instant visit from the sheriff. I was just trying to stall him.

His next move has saying he was going to leave. I moved form where I was back into the house and stood behind the table, where I had put the pistol. He demanded his bat from BFF's mom. She refused. I calmly told her to give it to him. I had him dead to rights. I decided quickly that if he raised his arm to attack anybody with that bat, I was going to shoot him. I knew if I ended up at that place where I had to pull the trigger this doucheface would be dead as I wasn't taught to shoot any other way by the military. Even the visiting sheriff asked why I didn't shoot the guy as I was well within my rights to do so. My only answer was, "Well, officer, I also went to war to heal people (I was a medic during Desert Shield/Storm), so any answer I give probably won't make sense to you."

I would say, Johnny, that I have way more respect for life than the average gun-rights supporter in that I don't think having a gun is always necessary, but I'm not so naive to think there will never be a situation where a gun doesn't become necessary.

I hope this makes a bit more sense as to why I have these strange ideas.

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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #63 on: December 18, 2012, 06:43:39 PM »

N.U, we are never going to agree. People should not be permitted to own the kinds of weapons that have been used in these incidents. Banning these weapons put a complete stop to mass shootings in my country and significantly lowered the rates of firearm related deaths overall.

Australia might be an island nation but plenty of contraband gets through our borders. We're not as isolated as you think. People here wouldn't have to try too hard to bring guns like that in but the vast majority of people here don't need a gun to feel safe/manly/tough/strong/macho.

Maybe because we know that our neighbours/coworkers/fellow students etc don't have them either.   

Hopefully this boy isn't the first of many.
11 year old boy brings a gun to school for "self defence".

http://www.9news.com/news/article/305688/188/Utah-boy-brings-gun-to-school-cites-Newtown-fears
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N.U.

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #64 on: December 18, 2012, 07:28:27 PM »

If you read the article (it's my hometown news in your link), you would have seen this little diddy:

"...School officials say the 11-year-old has been arrested on suspicion of possessing a dangerous weapon and aggravated assault after other students told police he pointed the handgun at them on a field at a suburban Salt Lake City elementary school..."

This was not a child in fear. This was a child without proper parenting in this instance.
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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2012, 08:29:44 PM »

The fact that he had access to a gun demonstrates poor parenting. It doesn't mean he wasn't afraid or a bit of a brat.
Quote
Authorities say a Utah sixth-grader caught with a gun at school told administrators he brought the weapon to defend himself in case of an attack similar to the mass shooting last week in Newtown, Conn.
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Miss Sahara

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2012, 08:51:26 PM »

Things are being done about heart disease, cancer, Alzheimer's, diabetes, etc.
Nearly every single disease, illness, or condition on that list is being studied and researched on some level.
Medical advances are being made. The pharmaceutical companies come out with new drugs on a semi-regular basis, and due to the research that's been published, it's become easier to treat some of these diseases and conditions on a preventative level (as well as catch them early). For many of the conditions, it's entirely feasible to treat them holistically and without medication, due to being able to catch them early on.
There are constant PSAs for some of them - awareness in the public is being raised, so that people will (theoretically) take better care of their bodies in the first place.

It's ridiculous to make sweeping statements such as "we aren't doing a thing" about them. That's an incredibly flawed statement and it makes your whole position look weak.
You just proved literally nothing.

Are they talking about completely banning High Fructose Corn Syrup from all foods in a manner similar to the large drink ban imposed in NYC? it would go a long way towards cutting down diabetes.
How about banning every food that is shown to lead directly to heart disease?
What about banning alcohol due to it's direct link to cirrhosis of the liver?

Oh... now it becomes clear. Prohibition doesn't work.

the other things are definitely problems, too. but only because other problems exist as well, it doesen't mean dealing with one of them is bad.
also, with most of the food stuff it is your own responsibility and brings harm to yourself (like excess drinking), but not to others. (at least not physically...)
If you go to school and someone else uses a gun it might very well affect many other innocent people.
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sangrebloom

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2012, 09:02:34 PM »




" Meet one of America's youngest gun victims -- shot in the womb. Tonight, we ask trauma surgeons how they'd quell gun violence."

Photo Credit: Seni Tienabeso



Shot in the WOMB

For me, this is enough reasons to have things change.
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Savannah

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2012, 03:29:21 AM »

@NU: I see your point, what you've experienced that night is not easy to forget. Anyway that guy might have been the one who held the gun, what would you then? He too had a right to bear one.

The victims of this mass shooting haven't been shot by a hitman or gangster, the murderer was just an ordinary person with some menthal/etchical issues. Now you think banning won't stop the criminal people, but at least it will stop the ordinary people with such issues you'll never notice until they go into action and attack innocent people.

And i really don't understand why most US people still feel insecure. For god's sake, any kind of emergency service is just a phone call away from you. And the terrorist attacks are quite fewer in quantity when compared to the middle eastern countries.Besides you are not being governed by a blood-shedder dictator. US doesn't even get involved in a war unless it's in some other country, so you are not likely to defend yourself againist the armies or raiders. If all you are afraid of is just some intruders and criminals, well here's the news: bearing a gun will never guarantee your safety.

Seriously, i understand the paranoia with the Jewish people, they've been exiled and killed severely over the centuries, i understand the paranoia with African & Middle Eastern people as most of them have never been governed by a consistent and trustworthy system or people. These people have always had to witness & engage to wars.

But what's the reason most people in the US are so passive-aggressive about everything?
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JohnnyDBBUK

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2012, 04:10:04 AM »

From the sound of things you managed to incapacitate that guy without deadly force NU
Bruce Lee never needed a gun
Batman never needed a gun
and that night neither did you.
I know three ways to disarm a guy with a baseballbat that do not require a gun.

Rose

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2012, 01:39:33 PM »

@NU: I see your point, what you've experienced that night is not easy to forget. Anyway that guy might have been the one who held the gun, what would you then? He too had a right to bear one.

The victims of this mass shooting haven't been shot by a hitman or gangster, the murderer was just an ordinary person with some menthal/etchical issues. Now you think banning won't stop the criminal people, but at least it will stop the ordinary people with such issues you'll never notice until they go into action and attack innocent people.

And i really don't understand why most US people still feel insecure. For god's sake, any kind of emergency service is just a phone call away from you. And the terrorist attacks are quite fewer in quantity when compared to the middle eastern countries.Besides you are not being governed by a blood-shedder dictator. US doesn't even get involved in a war unless it's in some other country, so you are not likely to defend yourself againist the armies or raiders. If all you are afraid of is just some intruders and criminals, well here's the news: bearing a gun will never guarantee your safety.

Seriously, i understand the paranoia with the Jewish people, they've been exiled and killed severely over the centuries, i understand the paranoia with African & Middle Eastern people as most of them have never been governed by a consistent and trustworthy system or people. These people have always had to witness & engage to wars.

But what's the reason most people in the US are so passive-aggressive about everything?
I don't like scapegoating or overly vilifying anyone or anything, and the media has been taking a lot of flack lately. Also, when I (or anyone else) refer to it as "the media" it sounds like this huge shadow corporation out to get us (and I don't really believe that). Buuut.. that aside.. I do believe a large part of the reason we live in such fear is the way we get our news.
It is a depressing fact that even the local news usually shows stories of violence or distress before any other stories. It's what sells. But they sensationalize it. For people who keep up on the news, local or national, it begins to seem like these things happen on large scale. They happen on a regular basis, but statistically, you're pretty unlikely to deal with a violent situation unless you live in a dangerous area or you're engaging in at risk behavior (including hanging around with dangerous/unstable people, like drug addicts).
But, since our news sources are almost completely negative, it can be very difficult to not believe we live in an incredibly dangerous and terrifying country. The only times I've ever felt unsafe are when I've been in situations where I know I'm unsafe - but a lot of people, I think, can't really tell the difference anymore. Everything has become blurred, and everything has become scary. I've got a friend who's a black belt in martial arts (I can't remember which type), and he's paranoid and nervous even in safe areas if we're out after dark. Even if it's not late at night. It's one thing to be aware of the area around you, but you shouldn't have to be scared. It sucks.
The media starts this and feeds this, and then everyone who is scared feeds it and breeds it within the community, and it snowballs. It becomes very easy to demonize anything that might be dangerous, because we're all fucking terrified all the time. It gets out of control very easily. People get angry. Lines are drawn. Nearly everyone is living in fear and wanting a solution but no one will agree on what the solution can be and not enough people are being rational. It's such a clusterfuck.
But yeah. I think the media is a huge instigator and contributor. People are plugged into it in an alarming way. It's very difficult to be secure when the people you trust to tell you what's going on in the country (and you do trust them on some level, because otherwise you wouldn't be watching) make it sound like the edge of the apocalypse.
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Miranda.

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2012, 03:03:41 PM »

For the record I do not own a gun. My husband owns one for duck hunting & it is not kept in our home because I will not allow it without a gun safe.

And i really don't understand why most US people still feel insecure. For god's sake, any kind of emergency service is just a phone call away from you.

The victims of this mass shooting haven't been shot by a hitman or gangster, the murderer was just an ordinary person with some menthal/etchical issues.

This is what makes me feel insecure.

People kill other people. People, for whatever reason, chose to go to public places and kill other human beings with lives and families and futures. People that they don't know. People that they have never even met. People that they have no reason (as if there were an appropriate reason) to kill. There is nothing that anyone can do about a life that has already been taken so emergency service is only a small comfort.



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N.U.

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2012, 03:55:54 PM »

Folks from other countries don't understand US culture. In American culture on the whole, the gun is absolutely as much a part of our republic as is speaking your mind. It was so important to us that right after guaranteeing freedom of speech, the press, and religion came the right to bear arms.

Does this mean nothing should change? Heavens no. It absolutely has to change, but a ban will not happen in this country. There would be open revolution in some parts of the country. That's not a fear tactic. That's a fact. I would like to see at least some of what I would like implemented. I won't hold my breath, though.
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Savannah

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2012, 04:43:26 PM »

For the record I do not own a gun. My husband owns one for duck hunting & it is not kept in our home because I will not allow it without a gun safe.

And i really don't understand why most US people still feel insecure. For god's sake, any kind of emergency service is just a phone call away from you.

The victims of this mass shooting haven't been shot by a hitman or gangster, the murderer was just an ordinary person with some menthal/etchical issues.

This is what makes me feel insecure.

People kill other people. People, for whatever reason, chose to go to public places and kill other human beings with lives and families and futures. People that they don't know. People that they have never even met. People that they have no reason (as if there were an appropriate reason) to kill. There is nothing that anyone can do about a life that has already been taken so emergency service is only a small comfort.

I see, but i guess the true answer to that question was given in Marionette's post above.

When i said emergency services i didn't just imply the ones that give health services, i was talking about the whole public services such as the policemen, firefighters, search & rescue teams, ambulances, etc.

I know it's a race against time in such cases, you can find the time to do something or get quickly hunt down. There are lots of possibilities.

People killing people makes me feel insecure too, but i have never thought about getting a gun or a knife. Instead i used to keep a tear gas spray in my bag when i was in the university. But not sure if it's a solution too. Anyway i don't find it reasonable to get that much scared and paranoid and bear a gun. It is too much.

A couple of years ago my uncle shot his very best friend during a bar fight. He was just trying to scare some other guy away, but his friend had thought he'd shoot the guy and tried to stop him. Both were as drunk as a sow, and it ended with uncle shooting his best friend on his abdomen (luckily he survived and uncle got released after a couple of months).
Anyway if you ask my uncle why he keeps the gun, he'll probably say 'to defend myself'. Defend yourself from what for the f's sake, from yourself?
As i said before, we're not robots. It's not that hard to lose the temper and cause such a horrible accident.
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Miranda.

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Re: another week, another mass shooting in the USA
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2012, 04:53:56 PM »

I didn't mean that those were reasons/excuses to carry a gun. I was saying that is why I personally feel insecure about life right now.
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