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Author Topic: Pope Benedict Quits  (Read 8133 times)

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Pope Totalfrog

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Pope Benedict Quits
« on: February 11, 2013, 07:13:09 AM »

Pope Benedict just hung up his funny hat.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-11/pope-benedict-to-resign3a-italian-media/4513244

Popes don't quit. They die. It will be interesting to see what they have on him once he is safely out of the way.

This seems appropriate -
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/fHRDfut2Vx0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/fHRDfut2Vx0</a>


As Pope of the Shadowbox I have humbly offered my services to the Vatican. Just waiting for them to call me back.  :angel4:
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Savannah

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 08:30:15 AM »

It's said that he's been having serious health issues for quite some time. So i don't think it'd make any difference if he hadn't quit.

Anyway Froggie, it's your time to head the Vatican.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2013, 09:53:08 AM »

Considering that he didn't want the gig in the first place, good on him for getting out before he's carried out, I guess. About a decade ago, he told an interviewer that he was looking forward to hanging out and going fishing with his brother once he retired; his bro's still alive, too, so maybe they can still make that happen.

Like Savannah said, his health issues became overriding; he was told some months back by his doctors not to make transoceanic flights anymore (they probably didn't want him to be too far from a hospital). A pope these days can't just sit in Rome and get the job done. Pope T being much younger, she could handle that aspect easily.

Lots of speculation the the next pope won't be European, so that also works in her favour.

Savannah

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 03:15:46 PM »

^I'd vote for Froggy if i was a member of that council. Alas, i'm not a cardinal. I'm not even a Christian.  :-\

Again, i know she'd use her powers for good not evil. And she'd lend me the invisibility gown and errithing.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 03:59:07 PM »


I can't say I'm sorry to see him go.  If they would only disband the mob vatican as well, the world would be better off. 

But, let's give Ratzinger his due, with a nice send-off from the late, great Christopher Hitchens:




"On March 10, the chief exorcist of the Vatican, the Rev. Gabriele Amorth (who has held this demanding post for 25 years), was quoted as saying that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican," and that "when one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' in the holy rooms, it is all true—including these latest stories of violence and pedophilia." This can perhaps be taken as confirmation that something horrible has indeed been going on in the holy precincts, though most inquiries show it to have a perfectly good material explanation.

Concerning the most recent revelations about the steady complicity of the Vatican in the ongoing—indeed endless—scandal of child rape, a few days later a spokesman for the Holy See made a concession in the guise of a denial. It was clear, said the Rev. Federico Lombardi, that an attempt was being made "to find elements to involve the Holy Father personally in issues of abuse." He stupidly went on to say that "those efforts have failed."

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 He was wrong twice. In the first place, nobody has had to strive to find such evidence: It has surfaced, as it was bound to do. In the second place, this extension of the awful scandal to the topmost level of the Roman Catholic Church is a process that has only just begun. Yet it became in a sense inevitable when the College of Cardinals elected, as the vicar of Christ on Earth, the man chiefly responsible for the original cover-up. (One of the sanctified voters in that "election" was Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston, a man who had already found the jurisdiction of Massachusetts a bit too warm for his liking.)

There are two separate but related matters here: First, the individual responsibility of the pope in one instance of this moral nightmare and, second, his more general and institutional responsibility for the wider lawbreaking and for the shame and disgrace that goes with it. The first story is easily told, and it is not denied by anybody. In 1979, an 11-year-old German boy identified as Wilfried F. was taken on a vacation trip to the mountains by a priest. After that, he was administered alcohol, locked in his bedroom, stripped naked, and forced to suck the penis of his confessor. (Why do we limit ourselves to calling this sort of thing "abuse"?) The offending cleric was transferred from Essen to Munich for "therapy" by a decision of then-Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger, and assurances were given that he would no longer have children in his care. But it took no time for Ratzinger's deputy, Vicar General Gerhard Gruber, to return him to "pastoral" work, where he soon enough resumed his career of sexual assault.

It is, of course, claimed, and it will no doubt later be partially un-claimed, that Ratzinger himself knew nothing of this second outrage. I quote, here, from the Rev. Thomas Doyle, a former employee of the Vatican Embassy in Washington and an early critic of the Catholic Church's sloth in responding to child-rape allegations. "Nonsense," he says. "Pope Benedict is a micromanager. He's the old style. Anything like that would necessarily have been brought to his attention. Tell the vicar general to find a better line. What he's trying to do, obviously, is protect the pope."

This is common or garden stuff, very familiar to American and Australian and Irish Catholics whose children's rape and torture, and the cover-up of same by the tactic of moving rapists and torturers from parish to parish, has been painstakingly and comprehensively exposed. It's on a level with the recent belated admission by the pope's brother, Monsignor Georg Ratzinger, that while he knew nothing about sexual assault at the choir school he ran between 1964 and 1994, now that he remembers it, he is sorry for his practice of slapping the boys around.

Very much more serious is the role of Joseph Ratzinger, before the church decided to make him supreme leader, in obstructing justice on a global scale. After his promotion to cardinal, he was put in charge of the so-called "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" (formerly known as the Inquisition). In 2001, Pope John Paul II placed this department in charge of the investigation of child rape and torture by Catholic priests. In May of that year, Ratzinger issued a confidential letter to every bishop. In it, he reminded them of the extreme gravity of a certain crime. But that crime was the reporting of the rape and torture. The accusations, intoned Ratzinger, were only treatable within the church's own exclusive jurisdiction. Any sharing of the evidence with legal authorities or the press was utterly forbidden. Charges were to be investigated "in the most secretive way ... restrained by a perpetual silence ... and everyone ... is to observe the strictest secret which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office … under the penalty of excommunication." (My italics). Nobody has yet been excommunicated for the rape and torture of children, but exposing the offense could get you into serious trouble. And this is the church that warns us against moral relativism! (See, for more on this appalling document, two reports in the London Observer of April 24, 2005, by Jamie Doward.)

Not content with shielding its own priests from the law, Ratzinger's office even wrote its own private statute of limitations. The church's jurisdiction, claimed Ratzinger, "begins to run from the day when the minor has completed the 18th year of age" and then lasts for 10 more years. Daniel Shea, the attorney for two victims who sued Ratzinger and a church in Texas, correctly describes that latter stipulation as an obstruction of justice. "You can't investigate a case if you never find out about it. If you can manage to keep it secret for 18 years plus 10, the priest will get away with it."

The next item on this grisly docket will be the revival of the long-standing allegations against the Rev. Marcial Maciel, founder of the ultra-reactionary Legion of Christ, in which sexual assault seems to have been almost part of the liturgy. Senior ex-members of this secretive order found their complaints ignored and overridden by Ratzinger during the 1990s, if only because Father Maciel had been praised by the then-Pope John Paul II as an "efficacious guide to youth." And now behold the harvest of this long campaign of obfuscation. The Roman Catholic Church is headed by a mediocre Bavarian bureaucrat once tasked with the concealment of the foulest iniquity, whose ineptitude in that job now shows him to us as a man personally and professionally responsible for enabling a filthy wave of crime. Ratzinger himself may be banal, but his whole career has the stench of evil—a clinging and systematic evil that is beyond the power of exorcism to dispel. What is needed is not medieval incantation but the application of justice—and speedily at that."   C. H. 2010



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Rose

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 04:14:13 PM »

I wasn't even aware they were able to step down. They've always just died in office.. but I'm hoping that they elect a slightly more liberal and worldly pope this time (which is incredibly unlikely). But really, the Catholic church needs to get with the game and start functioning in the same world as the rest of us.
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Astica

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 10:15:50 PM »

^Wont happen. Besides, they're made to cater to people who still support their ideas, of which there are many.

I'd say the new pope will be very similar to the old one *shrug*
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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 10:40:55 PM »

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 03:06:26 AM »

I was confirmed Catholic, and I was the best in my church school class on account of the fact that I realized sometime in sixth grade that my teacher would let me sleep for the rest of the class if I proved that I knew everything on the (really easy) quizzes. I'd like to think that knowing what the basic Catholic views on sex were in the eighth grade (WAIT UNTIL MARRIAGE OR YOUR GENITALS WILL ROT, FALL OFF AND BE CLAIMED BY SATAN and such) qualifies me for the position.

Then I can quit too and Totalfrog can take her rightful place-- I just really want to put "pope" on my resume.
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Savannah

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 04:35:35 AM »

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 01:15:58 PM »

^That's how I feel when I wear my hair down. Like, pretty much, exactly. Poor Pope.
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N.U.

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 06:26:04 PM »

Link to that article, please. Otherwise it just comes across as kicking someone when they're down.


FWIW, the last "Liberal" Pope was Pope John Paul I. He served 33 days until he died. JPII was considered much more conservative, leading many to speculate that JPI's death was not a natural death.
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Pope Totalfrog

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 07:00:51 PM »

Link to that article, please. Otherwise it just comes across as kicking someone when they're down.
The Hitchens one? http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/03/the_great_catholic_coverup.html

Also, kicking who when they're down? The man who did his best to cover up and ignore the abuse of children? Way I see it people should kick him harder.

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Devery

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2013, 09:39:10 AM »

Link to that article, please. Otherwise it just comes across as kicking someone when they're down.
The Hitchens one? http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/03/the_great_catholic_coverup.html

Also, kicking who when they're down? The man who did his best to cover up and ignore the abuse of children? Way I see it people should kick him harder.


Thanks for the assist, Froggie.  They tore down Paterno's statue for looking the other way, whereas this pope actively engaged in the cover-up.  Hell, he ordered it, and moved child rapists away from the heat and back into situations where they could rape again, and he knew it.  I think it was called "pastoral reassignments".

kick, kick, kick.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2013, 11:07:08 AM »

Yeah far be it for anyone to understand the hubris of putting the church's reputation ahead of any of these abused individuals. I will not nor ever will say it was okay what he did, but we've seen this hubris before. Paterno, as you mentioned. Nixon. Reagan. Clinton. Bush 43. All of them suffered from the same hubris, which makes one wonder if that sort of hubris is more prevalent than any of us are aware.

And to think, all it would have taken to prevent this is get rid of that stupid "no sex" clause. If priests were allowed to be married, 99% of the molestation issues within the church would never have happened in the first place.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2013, 11:19:44 AM »

Yeah far be it for anyone to understand the hubris of putting the church's reputation ahead of any of these abused individuals. I will not nor ever will say it was okay what he did, but we've seen this hubris before. Paterno, as you mentioned. Nixon. Reagan. Clinton. Bush 43. All of them suffered from the same hubris, which makes one wonder if that sort of hubris is more prevalent than any of us are aware.

And to think, all it would have taken to prevent this is get rid of that stupid "no sex" clause. If priests were allowed to be married, 99% of the molestation issues within the church would never have happened in the first place.

Yeah but sex is fun and one of the core beliefs of Catholicism is that anything fun is a sin.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2013, 12:13:49 PM »

Yeah far be it for anyone to understand the hubris of putting the church's reputation ahead of any of these abused individuals. I will not nor ever will say it was okay what he did, but we've seen this hubris before. Paterno, as you mentioned. Nixon. Reagan. Clinton. Bush 43. All of them suffered from the same hubris, which makes one wonder if that sort of hubris is more prevalent than any of us are aware.

And to think, all it would have taken to prevent this is get rid of that stupid "no sex" clause. If priests were allowed to be married, 99% of the molestation issues within the church would never have happened in the first place.

Yeah but sex is fun and one of the core beliefs of Catholicism is that anything fun is a sin.

Having been raised very Roman Catholic, I absolutely agree with you. Anything that is fun or questions the authority of the church is evil.
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RoRi23

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2013, 12:23:40 PM »

There's a specific brand of German Catholicism, though, where fun (and fallibility) are considered acceptable - after all that's what confession is for.
It is no coincidence that carnival is celebrated in the predominant catholic areas of Germany.

Ratzinger however didn't subscribe to that particular school of thought.
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Savannah

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2013, 01:00:17 PM »

Yeah far be it for anyone to understand the hubris of putting the church's reputation ahead of any of these abused individuals. I will not nor ever will say it was okay what he did, but we've seen this hubris before. Paterno, as you mentioned. Nixon. Reagan. Clinton. Bush 43. All of them suffered from the same hubris, which makes one wonder if that sort of hubris is more prevalent than any of us are aware.

And to think, all it would have taken to prevent this is get rid of that stupid "no sex" clause. If priests were allowed to be married, 99% of the molestation issues within the church would never have happened in the first place.

Yeah but sex is fun and one of the core beliefs of Catholicism is that anything fun is a sin.

Having been raised very Roman Catholic, I absolutely agree with you. Anything that is fun or questions the authority of the church is evil.

I think that's the problem with the whole system. God should be the real authority for the believers; not a third party or another mortal creature.

Vatican is a system that is being run by the people, and you know: the err is human.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2013, 02:11:47 PM »

The spirituality of Catholicism is aces. The dogma sucks giant donkey dick, but apparently settles for altar boys.
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spider jerusalem

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2013, 02:50:32 PM »

I wasn't even aware they were able to step down. They've always just died in office.. but I'm hoping that they elect a slightly more liberal and worldly pope this time (which is incredibly unlikely). But really, the Catholic church needs to get with the game and start functioning in the same world as the rest of us.


Actually, it is more likely he was "quited". As far as I know, only one pope of those who quited had genuinely gave up. There are many more things behind this decision than what they will ever release to the public.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2013, 03:27:23 PM »

I wasn't even aware they were able to step down. They've always just died in office.. but I'm hoping that they elect a slightly more liberal and worldly pope this time (which is incredibly unlikely). But really, the Catholic church needs to get with the game and start functioning in the same world as the rest of us.


Actually, it is more likely he was "quited". As far as I know, only one pope of those who quited had genuinely gave up. There are many more things behind this decision than what they will ever release to the public.

Celestine V put all the rules in place so a Pope could quit. The ones that were replaced in the early 1400s were more a result of different factions insisting "their" Pope was the real Pope.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2013, 03:51:58 PM »

I just wanted to let y'all know, every time I see the title of this thread in the unread posts thing I read it as "Pope Benedict Quilts", and then I picture quilts with Papa B's face on them and it makes me smile.

Also, remember that time there were three popes? lol. History be crazy.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2013, 03:58:10 PM »

I just wanted to let y'all know, every time I see the title of this thread in the unread posts thing I read it as "Pope Benedict Quilts", and then I picture quilts with Papa B's face on them and it makes me smile.

Also, remember that time there were three popes? lol. History be crazy.

technically, The Year of Three Popes was 1978. Pope Paul VI died having served as Pope for almost 15 years. Pope John Paul I was elected, died 33 days later. Pope John Paul II was elected.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2013, 04:50:42 PM »

I just wanted to let y'all know, every time I see the title of this thread in the unread posts thing I read it as "Pope Benedict Quilts", and then I picture quilts with Papa B's face on them and it makes me smile.

Also, remember that time there were three popes? lol. History be crazy.

technically, The Year of Three Popes was 1978. Pope Paul VI died having served as Pope for almost 15 years. Pope John Paul I was elected, died 33 days later. Pope John Paul II was elected.

No, in the Great Western Schism (I want to say 1415?) there were three guys being all like YO I'M THE POPE THO and then they were like NAH BRUV, I'M THE POPE.
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2013, 06:11:39 PM »

The spirituality of Catholicism is aces. The dogma sucks giant donkey dick, but apparently settles for altar boys.

The pageantry rules.

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2013, 07:13:14 PM »

Celestine V put all the rules in place so a Pope could quit. The ones that were replaced in the early 1400s were more a result of different factions insisting "their" Pope was the real Pope.

What I meant to say is that they (Vatican) maneuver it, in terms of making a deal or whatever so the pope would say he is quiting instead of them moving him away from his position (sorry for not being able to put it on fancy words, but I think you got it). At least, that is what I recall from history classes, but I could be mislead on that.   

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2013, 08:42:53 AM »

Celestine V put all the rules in place so a Pope could quit. The ones that were replaced in the early 1400s were more a result of different factions insisting "their" Pope was the real Pope.

What I meant to say is that they (Vatican) maneuver it, in terms of making a deal or whatever so the pope would say he is quiting instead of them moving him away from his position (sorry for not being able to put it on fancy words, but I think you got it). At least, that is what I recall from history classes, but I could be mislead on that.

It's along the lines of the old Soviet Premiers "having a cold" whenever they were hospitalized.
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Savannah

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2013, 08:18:40 AM »

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2013, 11:42:29 AM »


Aren't you a little short to be a Supreme Pontiff?
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2013, 12:22:15 PM »


Aren't you a little short to be a Supreme Pontiff?

Judge him by his size, do ya?
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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2013, 01:29:33 PM »

It's okay, the Pontiff's posthole digger hat makes up for the short stature.
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imaginary friend

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CeeGBee

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2013, 10:32:52 PM »

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Félix Marqués

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2013, 08:43:22 AM »

Nooooobody expected anything like this.
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imaginary friend

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2013, 06:19:37 PM »

It is possible for neither claim to the name having a thing to do with each other.

One is a recording name.

One is a Papal honorarium.
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CeeGBee

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2013, 10:41:12 AM »

Papal honorarium.

They have drugs to treat that now.....    ;D
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imaginary friend

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2013, 11:13:34 AM »

N.U.

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2013, 11:53:30 AM »

Pope Francis. This name was not chosen by accident. St. Francis of Assisi is the Patron Saint of Italy. St. Francis Xavier formed the Jesuit Order.
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Devery

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2013, 12:09:10 PM »

Pope Francis. This name was not chosen by accident. St. Francis of Assisi is the Patron Saint of Italy. St. Francis Xavier formed the Jesuit Order.

St. Francis of Sinatra also had some Italian connections.
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"The world is going to hell in a hand-basket, but it sure is nice up here on the hill."   A. Kujawa

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Re: Pope Benedict Quits
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2013, 12:37:52 PM »

Pope Francis. This name was not chosen by accident. St. Francis of Assisi is the Patron Saint of Italy. St. Francis Xavier formed the Jesuit Order.

St. Francis of Sinatra also had some Italian connections.

HAHA! Well played.
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