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[Bubblegum Britt]

Dare I say it, are there any feminists in here? Whenever I mention the f word on a forum, some nasty attitudes unleash, so yeah..

I'm a feminist and proud of it. No, that does not necessarily make me a man-hating dyke who doesn't shave her legs. I've heard some ridiculous misconceptions about what a feminist stands for and looks like, so I just wanted to set the record straight...

[Rob]

[Bubblegum Britt]

ha. ha.

[buttercup.]

Dare I say it, are there any feminists in here? Whenever I mention the f word on a forum, some nasty attitudes unleash, so yeah..

I'm a feminist and proud of it. No, that does not necessarily make me a man-hating dyke who doesn't shave her legs. I've heard some ridiculous misconceptions about what a feminist stands for and looks like, so I just wanted to set the record straight...

High five!

[imaginary friend]

Dare I say it, are there any feminists in here? Whenever I mention the f word on a forum, some nasty attitudes unleash, so yeah..

I'm a feminist and proud of it. No, that does not necessarily make me a man-hating dyke who doesn't shave her legs. I've heard some ridiculous misconceptions about what a feminist stands for and looks like, so I just wanted to set the record straight...

1) Yes, and I'm one.

2) I'm not a man-hating dyke either.

#@!

p.s. Rob: where'd you get the Tori Spelling pic? Is it recent?

[Cirque]

Why you dissin' on Tori?

[Molotovna]

I would be perfectly content to stay home, raise a family and bake things for years on end, but I'm also extremely grateful that women in our time have the option of making that decision for themselves, rather than being forced into that position.

 

[The Angel Raliel]

I am a feminist and male.....
I believe in the equality of everyone through individuality

[itevaporated]

Dare I say it, are there any feminists in here? Whenever I mention the f word on a forum, some nasty attitudes unleash, so yeah..

I'm a feminist and proud of it. No, that does not necessarily make me a man-hating dyke who doesn't shave her legs. I've heard some ridiculous misconceptions about what a feminist stands for and looks like, so I just wanted to set the record straight...

BAH! Exactly!

[Purtlepootle]

It seems sometimes feminism is a dirty word but I would totally call myself one! 

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

It's one of those words where the definition seems to shift itself around constantly and means something different to everyone.
I would not call myself one, simply because I don't think my understanding is clear enough and most of the discussions I have heard about feminism have made me want to rip my ears off.
There seem to be the ones who think everyone should be equal, it's great that we have choices, etc. and then there seem to be ones who just think women are better than men and men should fuck off and go live in caves...that type of thing, which is really quite dumb.
Anyway, my point is that it confuses me.

[Pope Totalfrog]

My mother in law likes to refer to me as a "hairy legged feminist". I think she thinks it is an insult. I just think it is accurate.

It also annoys the hell out of me when people point out that I couldn't possibly be a feminist because I choose to stay home and raise my family. I believe feminism gives me that choice. I don't think feminism is useful if it forces us to feel that we can't be full time mothers and be considered strong independent women.

To me feminism is about empowering women to choose the direction their lives take - not forcing them to make choices that don't feel right to them.




 

[yosmark]

I want to do the "Rob":

[Molotovna]

To me feminism is about empowering women to choose the direction their lives take - not forcing them to make choices that don't feel right to them.
 

Exactly.

[Johnny]

Why you dissin' on Tori?

 

thank you for that.

[caddy]

Aw hell, I'll get down with my bad self, and do The Rob, too!

[NastyEgo]

Every extreme is sick. At least I belive so. I don't mind feminists as long as they don't fall into extremes. One example could be an act that was a project from them in Poland. They wanted ALL posts at work to be divided equally between men and women. Of course I don't mind it if there are women, who are the same good as men, but that would sometimes force the employer to hire poorly qualified woman over a highly qualified man. I don't know any women who can weild a tanker hull for example. And at the school where I work no girls study to do that. And at some jobs women are just better, e.g. kindergarten teacher. So if feminism would mean such a stupidity, then I'd say "F you."

[The Angel Raliel]

equal opprtunities and equal rights should never mean enforced numeric equality, that is just silly.
It is like the problems that some people face in the UK where jobs are given nto someone less qualified because they fulfil a racial or minority quota ( this even happens in schools )..... it shows a deep misunderstanding of equal opportunity

[Bubblegum Britt]

Every extreme is sick. At least I belive so. I don't mind feminists as long as they don't fall into extremes. One example could be an act that was a project from them in Poland. They wanted ALL posts at work to be divided equally between men and women. Of course I don't mind it if there are women, who are the same good as men, but that would sometimes force the employer to hire poorly qualified woman over a highly qualified man. I don't know any women who can weild a tanker hull for example. And at the school where I work no girls study to do that. And at some jobs women are just better, e.g. kindergarten teacher. So if feminism would mean such a stupidity, then I'd say "F you."

How are women just "better" at being kindergarten teachers?

[Peet!]

I'm not particularly a 'feminist' per se, but I think that if a woman wants to do something she should do it. Same with men. It shouldn't matter if you're a male or a female. (Unless you don't have the genitals for the particular job, although they have strap ons these days. *shrug*)

[Peet!]

Every extreme is sick. At least I belive so. I don't mind feminists as long as they don't fall into extremes. One example could be an act that was a project from them in Poland. They wanted ALL posts at work to be divided equally between men and women. Of course I don't mind it if there are women, who are the same good as men, but that would sometimes force the employer to hire poorly qualified woman over a highly qualified man. I don't know any women who can weild a tanker hull for example. And at the school where I work no girls study to do that. And at some jobs women are just better, e.g. kindergarten teacher. So if feminism would mean such a stupidity, then I'd say "F you."

How are women just "better" at being kindergarten teachers?

I don't know what he was implying, but a possible explanation of his statement would be that children will respond more cooperatively to a mother-figure than a father-figure generally. The father is usually the one who has the discipline role, where the mother is nurturing and a figure of warmth. This isn't a stereotype, just statistics. And whilst a woman could quickly snap into a disciplinary role for a problem child, most men would probably not be too successful at being nurturing or warm to the basic mind of a toddler.

[Rob]

My daughter loves her male Kindergarten teacher.

[Cirque]

Every extreme is sick.

Tell that to Jason Everette (sp?) maybe then he'll stop infesting young minds with Chastity.

[NastyEgo]

Every extreme is sick. At least I belive so. I don't mind feminists as long as they don't fall into extremes. One example could be an act that was a project from them in Poland. They wanted ALL posts at work to be divided equally between men and women. Of course I don't mind it if there are women, who are the same good as men, but that would sometimes force the employer to hire poorly qualified woman over a highly qualified man. I don't know any women who can weild a tanker hull for example. And at the school where I work no girls study to do that. And at some jobs women are just better, e.g. kindergarten teacher. So if feminism would mean such a stupidity, then I'd say "F you."

How are women just "better" at being kindergarten teachers?

I don't know what he was implying, but a possible explanation of his statement would be that children will respond more cooperatively to a mother-figure than a father-figure generally. The father is usually the one who has the discipline role, where the mother is nurturing and a figure of warmth. This isn't a stereotype, just statistics. And whilst a woman could quickly snap into a disciplinary role for a problem child, most men would probably not be too successful at being nurturing or warm to the basic mind of a toddler.

Yes, that's one point. Also women have stronger "instinct" for taking care of the youngs. I don't say it's a rule or it's always like that, or you're bound to be a kindergarten teacher. It's just women are more "sensitive and fluffy" kind than men. Just look how many men decide to be kindergarten teachers. Or teachers at all. And it's also proven that children generaly have better contact with mother/other women than men.

[Pope Totalfrog]

Every extreme is sick. At least I belive so. I don't mind feminists as long as they don't fall into extremes. One example could be an act that was a project from them in Poland. They wanted ALL posts at work to be divided equally between men and women. Of course I don't mind it if there are women, who are the same good as men, but that would sometimes force the employer to hire poorly qualified woman over a highly qualified man. I don't know any women who can weild a tanker hull for example. And at the school where I work no girls study to do that. And at some jobs women are just better, e.g. kindergarten teacher. So if feminism would mean such a stupidity, then I'd say "F you."

How are women just "better" at being kindergarten teachers?

I don't know what he was implying, but a possible explanation of his statement would be that children will respond more cooperatively to a mother-figure than a father-figure generally. The father is usually the one who has the discipline role, where the mother is nurturing and a figure of warmth. This isn't a stereotype, just statistics. And whilst a woman could quickly snap into a disciplinary role for a problem child, most men would probably not be too successful at being nurturing or warm to the basic mind of a toddler.

Yes, that's one point. Also women have stronger "instinct" for taking care of the youngs. I don't say it's a rule or it's always like that, or you're bound to be a kindergarten teacher. It's just women are more "sensitive and fluffy" kind than men. Just look how many men decide to be kindergarten teachers. Or teachers at all. And it's also proven that children generaly have better contact with mother/other women than men.

Mu husband is pretty sensitive and fluffy when it come to our kids and our nieces. He isn't a sensitive new age feminist guy either - he is actually a big, scary looking, ice hockey playing, motor sport enthusiast.

I know a lot of women that aren't all that fluffy - one of my oldest friends hates children and many other women I know don't have a lot of time for them.

I think many men don't become kindergarten teachers because it is stereotypically seen as a woman's job. Not because they aren't capable of nurturing children.

[NastyEgo]

IN GENERAL... That's a very important part. Genralisations are as bad as extremes... Maybe a little less.

[Rob]

In other words, they are pointless...

[NastyEgo]

In other words, they are pointless...

They have a point. Just like statistics, which some consider pointless. They show a tendency.

[Peet!]

To the people who were pointing out exceptions to what I said, I did say "usually". Everyone is an individual. Saying that you know Fred Bloggs who likes fluffy pink things and football but isn't gay, or that you know a million women in the army doesn't really change the fact that rules of thumb are out there and usually strike true, thus existing as a rule of thumb or generalisation for someone to take someone at face value. Whilst I know that that isn't a good thing to do, be honest; how many people that you dodge in the streets are actually good people? You're not just going to go up to every single person that looks dodgy in the hope that they might be nice, you just use a generalisation that if they smell like marajuana and carry around a knife then they're probably not a nice person.

On the topic of women being good kindergarten teachers, it's a general truth. More women will be good kindergarten teachers than men.

[Bubblegum Britt]

Just as long as you recognize that we're good at other things too, not just being kindergarten teachers or anything related to kids

[Musings]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/11/18/hunt_is_on_for_more_men_to_lead_classrooms/?page=1

Just because something has been true in the past, doesn't necessarily mean it should remain so.  More women are entering science and engineering fields than ever before; it wouldn't be a bad thing if more men explored elementary school teaching and would be productive for society as a whole.

[The Angel Raliel]

Unfortunately, there is something of a stigma attatched to male teachers for the very young. THis has more to do with media hysteria about paedophiles than it does with aptitude for teaching

[CeeGBee]

Unfortunately, there is something of a stigma attatched to male teachers for the very young. THis has more to do with media hysteria about paedophiles than it does with aptitude for teaching

It's not so much a 'stigma' as a widespread... "suspicion" is too strong...  wariness, I suppose.

On the flip-side, a multitude of studies have shown that kids who have male teachers at an early age
display fewer behavioral issues in later grades.

...and finally, before turning this thread back over to the militant females, if any of you guys out there
are worried about finding a job after college, get into an early-education curriculum.  You can probably
get financial aid specific to the program, and you should have no trouble finding a job after graduation
(assuming you don't totally suck at teaching, that is)...  You might even enjoy it.

Back to you, ladies...

[dangerpants]

In other words, they are pointless...

They have a point. Just like statistics, which some consider pointless. They show a tendency.

Actually, it wasn't a generalization, it was a stereotype, and they don't show tendencies. Ignore what some people may say about all stereotypes having a "seed of truth," it's a gross miscalculation based on misconceptions. The very idea that you could say that there are more female teachers than male without actually doing the research is preposterous.

Thank your lucky stars I'm not a militant feminist, otherwise I would have ripped all of your posts in this thread apart to line my cat's litterbox.

[NastyEgo]

I know there are more women teachers in Poland (who work as teachers maybe, but not sure there). I can be pretty sure about that, because I am a teacher and I am one of the few male teachers in my school. Apart from me, there are four other men ina a group of about 50 teachers.
I also attend to conferences and trainings and see how many men teachers are there.

[yosmark]

Arnold Schwarzeneeger was a teacher onece...



... even the movie showed the tendency.

Stereotypes what to say about those, most of them are truth, or at least the ones I have had a chance to experience.

[dangerpants]

I know there are more women teachers in Poland (who work as teachers maybe, but not sure there). I can be pretty sure about that, because I am a teacher and I am one of the few male teachers in my school. Apart from me, there are four other men ina a group of about 50 teachers.
I also attend to conferences and trainings and see how many men teachers are there.

Sorry, but this doesn't qualify you to say that for sure unless you polled everyone and counted. There could be many more in Poland that go to different conferences, or that teach in private schools or in college that you have never seen, therefore cannot count. Not only that, but you generalized it even further to infer that this ratio is the same throughout the world, and I doubt you've been to a teaching conference or training in Peru.
If I were wrong on this point, one could guess at any number based on what they have seen and use it in a research paper...

[yosmark]

I know there are more women teachers in Poland (who work as teachers maybe, but not sure there). I can be pretty sure about that, because I am a teacher and I am one of the few male teachers in my school. Apart from me, there are four other men ina a group of about 50 teachers.
I also attend to conferences and trainings and see how many men teachers are there.

Sorry, but this doesn't qualify you to say that for sure unless you polled everyone and counted. There could be many more in Poland that go to different conferences, or that teach in private schools or in college that you have never seen, therefore cannot count. Not only that, but you generalized it even further to infer that this ratio is the same throughout the world, and I doubt you've been to a teaching conference or training in Peru.
If I were wrong on this point, one could guess at any number based on what they have seen and use it in a research paper...

Even if this is from 2001 it shows a little something:

http://www.women.gov.hk/eng/document/govern/cedaw/cedaw_annexk_e.pdf

[CeeGBee]

In other words, they are pointless...

They have a point. Just like statistics, which some consider pointless. They show a tendency.

Actually, it wasn't a generalization, it was a stereotype, and they don't show tendencies. Ignore what some people may say about all stereotypes having a "seed of truth," it's a gross miscalculation based on misconceptions. The very idea that you could say that there are more female teachers than male without actually doing the research is preposterous.

Actually, the numbers are not hard to find...  I doubt they've changed much in the many years
since I was in college.....  There were, last I checked, more female than male teachers in America's
public schools.  However...
Women represent by far the majority in pre-school through elementary grades, and a slight
majority in middle and secondary schools. 

Men teach more physical-education classes, and coach far more sports teams... 

Why does that matter, you ask...

Guess what little career-highlight is on the resumes of most school administrators, from assistant-
principal to district superintendent?  And how surprised are you that even though pretty much all
administrators started out as classroom teachers (majority-female), the vast majority of admins
are still men?

Even if this is from 2001 it shows a little something:

http://www.women.gov.hk/eng/document/govern/cedaw/cedaw_annexk_e.pdf

It's a small sampling, probably one city school district.  Do you know where it's from?

[dangerpants]

I know there are more women teachers in Poland (who work as teachers maybe, but not sure there). I can be pretty sure about that, because I am a teacher and I am one of the few male teachers in my school. Apart from me, there are four other men ina a group of about 50 teachers.
I also attend to conferences and trainings and see how many men teachers are there.

Sorry, but this doesn't qualify you to say that for sure unless you polled everyone and counted. There could be many more in Poland that go to different conferences, or that teach in private schools or in college that you have never seen, therefore cannot count. Not only that, but you generalized it even further to infer that this ratio is the same throughout the world, and I doubt you've been to a teaching conference or training in Peru.
If I were wrong on this point, one could guess at any number based on what they have seen and use it in a research paper...

Even if this is from 2001 it shows a little something:

http://www.women.gov.hk/eng/document/govern/cedaw/cedaw_annexk_e.pdf

It shows K-high school. What about college? What about grad school?
I don't doubt that there are more women than men teaching. I just hate when people stereotype things just because they can't bother themselves to look around, and I'm trying to prove my point that generalizations serve no purpose except to be lazy. Also, that women make great welders, and I know several.

[yosmark]

C, that thing is from Hong Kong, don´t really know exactly from which school or district but is from HK.

I know there are more women teachers in Poland (who work as teachers maybe, but not sure there). I can be pretty sure about that, because I am a teacher and I am one of the few male teachers in my school. Apart from me, there are four other men ina a group of about 50 teachers.
I also attend to conferences and trainings and see how many men teachers are there.

Sorry, but this doesn't qualify you to say that for sure unless you polled everyone and counted. There could be many more in Poland that go to different conferences, or that teach in private schools or in college that you have never seen, therefore cannot count. Not only that, but you generalized it even further to infer that this ratio is the same throughout the world, and I doubt you've been to a teaching conference or training in Peru.
If I were wrong on this point, one could guess at any number based on what they have seen and use it in a research paper...

Even if this is from 2001 it shows a little something:

http://www.women.gov.hk/eng/document/govern/cedaw/cedaw_annexk_e.pdf

It shows K-high school. What about college? What about grad school?
I don't doubt that there are more women than men teaching. I just hate when people stereotype things just because they can't bother themselves to look around, and I'm trying to prove my point that generalizations serve no purpose except to be lazy. Also, that women make great welders, and I know several.

College, from what I have seen at least in Electronic related Engineerings you will find more & like really more male teachers than female teachers, If I had to put some numbers in the table I would have to say the male to female ratio is like 10:1 (at least in a private college), what I have heard is that in comunity colleges, the reatio goes like 20:1 or something like that, S please don´t stab a fork in my throat, these are just aproximations.

[dangerpants]

S please don´t stab a fork in my throat, these are just aproximations.

Sorry, I needed a place to put it.
I get irritated when my point is ignored, and the actual numbers themselves were not my point. So I was a little rough on you, I apologize.

[yosmark]

S please don´t stab a fork in my throat, these are just aproximations.

Sorry, I needed a place to put it.
I get irritated when my point is ignored, and the actual numbers themselves were not my point. So I was a little rough on you, I apologize.

bah no problem   

[NastyEgo]

Also, that women make great welders, and I know several.

I didn't say they aren't good welders, but that there aren't many. Anyone can do anything if he puts some effort into learning.

[CeeGBee]

S please don´t stab a fork in my throat, these are just aproximations.

Sorry, I needed a place to put it.
I get irritated when my point is ignored, and the actual numbers themselves were not my point. So I was a little rough on you, I apologize.

I like it when women are a little rough on me  

[The King of Carrot Flowers]

Dare I say it, are there any feminists in here? Whenever I mention the f word on a forum, some nasty attitudes unleash, so yeah..

I'm a feminist and proud of it. No, that does not necessarily make me a man-hating dyke who doesn't shave her legs. I've heard some ridiculous misconceptions about what a feminist stands for and looks like, so I just wanted to set the record straight...

I'm a feminist in that I believe woman are entitled to the same rights and protections (as well as the same disadvantages) as men.

[Purtlepootle]

Also, that women make great welders, and I know several.

I didn't say they aren't good welders, but that there aren't many.

And sometimes women are welders by day and dancers by night...oh wait...that was Flashdance...

[yosmark]

Also, that women make great welders, and I know several.

I didn't say they aren't good welders, but that there aren't many.

And sometimes women are welders by day and dancers by night...oh wait...that was Flashdance...

Welding is fucking dangerous!

I got one of my fingers burned last week.

[dangerpants]

Also, that women make great welders, and I know several.

I didn't say they aren't good welders, but that there aren't many.

And sometimes women are welders by day and dancers by night...oh wait...that was Flashdance...

Welding is fucking dangerous!

I got one of my fingers burned last week.

My dad wanted me to do that... Perhaps I should have.
I can solder like a mofo... But that's different.

[The Angel Raliel]

there are several jobs which are peculiarly suited to a particular sex, but they can be a little surprising...........

Did you know that women make much better submariners and astronauts, as they cope with extreme pressure differences much better and tend to adapt to claustrophobic conditions much more easily.... also tend not to get the Bends as easily

[Rob]

there are several jobs which are peculiarly suited to a particular sex, but they can be a little surprising...........

Did you know that women make much better submariners and astronauts, as they cope with extreme pressure differences much better and tend to adapt to claustrophobic conditions much more easily.... also tend not to get the Bends as easily

Tell that to her...

[yosmark]

Also, that women make great welders, and I know several.

I didn't say they aren't good welders, but that there aren't many.

And sometimes women are welders by day and dancers by night...oh wait...that was Flashdance...

Welding is fucking dangerous!

I got one of my fingers burned last week.

My dad wanted me to do that... Perhaps I should have.
I can solder like a mofo... But that's different.

But... he wanted you to weld like big metal things or electronic circuits? I was burned while welding electronic circuits, I don´t even want to imagine what would happen to me if I try to weld a big piece of metal.

Rob, hahahahahahahaha.

[85283-071]

As soon as we give something a name, people using it is a self-label bind themselves to a set of ideals that is unlikely to be entirely accurate. If you call yourself a feminist, you desrve what comes with the label. It is, at best, superfluous to your beliefs.

Watch how this works.

"I'm a feminist in that I believe woman are entitled to the same rights and protections (as well as the same disadvantages) as men."

"I believe woman are entitled to the same rights and protections (as well as the same disadvantages) as men."

If you want the label, that is fine. Just remember that you are the one that aligned yourself with the dysfunctional biddies that give the related ideas a bad rap. An ex of mine used to say that men who called themselves feminists were just trying to get laid. I think it is deeper than that, but she was on the right track.

[The Angel Raliel]

"men who called themselves feminists were just trying to get laid"
this shows a complete lack of understanding about the nature of men....... they are always trying to get laid, everything else is peripheral!

[CeeGBee]

"men who called themselves feminists were just trying to get laid"
this shows a complete lack of understanding about the nature of men....... they are always trying to get laid, everything else is peripheral!

"men who called themselves feminists were just employing a particular strategy in an attempt to get laid"

Better?

[Mr. Leave Me Alone]

Oh god. That contortionist freaks me out whenever I look at this thread.
Make it go awaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

I was talking to one of my friends about the idea that feminism can be about equality as opposed to women being superior and they said something like 'Why should something to do with equality be called 'feminism'? Doesn't that suggest that equality is a female concept and men know nothing of it? Doesn't that make it inequal?' or something...I dunno. It made some sense to me at the time but I can't remember how he phrased it.
Also I think he was angry because his feminist girlfriend dumped him and he needed something to pick on. But..yeah.

[85283-071]

Some feminists see sexism in places it does not exist. As with any cause, zealots attach their ideology to every perceived problem in their world. There is nothing personal or individual about any -ism, and without personal and specific consideration and adjustments, the wisdom of ideas are compromised.

Feminism. It's no different than any other -ism.

[Bubblegum Britt]

Some feminists see sexism in places it does not exist. As with any cause, zealots attach their ideology to every perceived problem in their world. There is nothing personal or individual about any -ism, and without personal and specific consideration and adjustments, the wisdom of ideas are compromised.

Feminism. It's no different than any other -ism.

How is feminism the same as racism?

[85283-071]

I could write essays on it. They are both pre-fabricated ideologies that cater to zealots and the insecure. Right now, you are probably thinking of differences between the two, or you are thinking of how many feminists just believe in an elusive gender equality. It hardly matters. You wonder why it has become a dirty word. It's because the people who have taken ownership of the word are the insecure, paranoid zealots. I don't imagine you will deny their existence. You just want the word to be pure. It can't be. The ideas can be pure, but only by extracting them from the associations with that word.

I believe in equality between the sexes. I have and will express outrage when I encounter digressions from that ideal. I am even confrontational about it. Nevertheless, experience has taught me that a room full of feminists is also full of toxic ideas and psychology. You want to take ownership of the word back? Good luck. Recognizing the problems that have been bound to the word is a first step. Personally, I think you'd do better just to focus on a pragmatic approach to varying sets of ideals.

[Musings]

Sometimes ideas need a cohesive grouping.  Feminism, multiculturalism, altruism, Marxism, transcendentalism.

None are perfect and many are far from it, but they give voice to an ideology, to a group of people who wish to join and speak on behalf of a certain core belief.

Feminism has many, many problems, but this discussion we are having right now would not exist without feminists, both radical and practical.  Only by looking at the extremes can we see where the center should be.

[yosmark]

A nigga would never let her bitch to get into feminism.
lol... jk

[Bubblegum Britt]

A nigga would never let her bitch to get into feminism.
lol... jk

Why is the lol...jk so small?

[yosmark]

A nigga would never let her bitch to get into feminism.
lol... jk

Why is the lol...jk so small?

You know just for fun.

[Bubblegum Britt]

Mhm, I see.


Didn't find it funny

[85283-071]

Sometimes ideas need a cohesive grouping.  Feminism, multiculturalism, altruism, Marxism, transcendentalism.

None are perfect and many are far from it, but they give voice to an ideology, to a group of people who wish to join and speak on behalf of a certain core belief.

Feminism has many, many problems, but this discussion we are having right now would not exist without feminists, both radical and practical.  Only by looking at the extremes can we see where the center should be.

I don't think they need it, and I know the cohesiveness of the ideas was born before the grouping. Multiculturalism was a facet of many cultures in trading cities and ports of ancient days. They needed no such labels. Altruism describes something that exists in the hearts of many people without a real awareness of the word. Marxism is a prime example of the flaw of binding ideas to an ideological format. Feminism falls victim to the same thing.  The movement toward equality would continue without "feminists." The associated ideas would be more universally accepted as critical elements of civil rights.

You're right. We wouldn't be discussing feminism if it weren't for feminism. We would be discussing equality without the distraction that comes with the ongoing battle over the value of the ideology.

[Bubblegum Britt]

I think we're all forgetting the origins of feminism here.

[lil' lindsay]

Explain.

[85283-071]

The origins of life were in the oceans. That does not mean we should all move there. It's about the here and now. It's about the difference between ideas and labels. This thread is about the label, and the label has some well-deserved baggage.

[pedobear]

Feminists are the girls who grew up after I rejected them.  They were already too old back then, and I don't do rag blood.

[lil' lindsay]

you like it bright red and after the fact!

[Alyss]

Feminism means equality to me. And that extends to everything. I'm not the kind of girl who wants the vote but expects guys to pay for my cinema ticket.

[imaginary friend]

"men who called themselves feminists were just trying to get laid"
this shows a complete lack of understanding about the nature of men....... they are always trying to get laid, everything else is peripheral!

I was getting laid before I knew waht feminism was.

#@!

[ShiningSugar]

Budding feminist represent!!
Damn close to saying, "Fuck it," to the male race, becoming a separatist and moving to BC.

[Alyss]

That's not feminism. Feminism is the Suffragettes.

[The King of Carrot Flowers]

Budding feminist represent!!
Damn close to saying, "Fuck it," to the male race, becoming a separatist and moving to BC.

That's called female chauvinism. Lay off the green and start giving us decent males some credit.

[Alyss]

She doesn't know about the green, she doesn't mean it that way. I only found out about it a few minutes ago.

[Indja]

She should still lay off it, it's fucking annoying.

I don't see how feminism can be seen as something worth fighting for - the issue isn't that women are repressed, it's that anyone is repressed. Who cares what they're like? They're people, that's the only thing that matters (in my dumb idealistic and badly thought-through theory that no doubt the next person to post on here will rip to pieces... meh).

[PRK]

The ugliest person in that picture is wearing a Hooters shirt on the left.

[Kimmielingus]

I'm not sure where I heard this, but I heard a story about a feminist getting onto a bus which had no free seats, so she went up to a guy and was like "Why aren't you offering me your seat? This is exactly how women aren't treated equally etc etc" to which the man replied "I am treating you equally, I wouldn't give my seat to another bloke, so why should I make exceptions for you?"
lol.

[Cirque]

I'm not sure where I heard this, but I heard a story about a feminist getting onto a bus which had no free seats, so she went up to a guy and was like "Why aren't you offering me your seat? This is exactly how women aren't treated equally etc etc" to which the man replied "I am treating you equally, I wouldn't give my seat to another bloke, so why should I make exceptions for you?"
lol.

Well that's true.
You should give your seat to like...an elderly person or something but if you want to treat a woman equal don't give her your seat.

[The Angel Raliel]

personally i am coutious to anyone who looks like they would appreciate a simple action of opening a door, giving up a seat etc.... male or female, young or old.

[Johnny]

Why you dissin' on Tori?

i love you for this.

[Chloe]

I certainly am a feminist
A book that id suggest all feminists read is 'Full Frontal Feminism' by Valenti. It covers a lot of things, is a really interesting read and isnt particularly taxing on the brain.

[The Epigrammic Poultry]

Why you dissin' on Tori?

I have and will knife her on several occasions.
You better watch yourself.

[Indja]

Here's some fun for you crazy bulldykes (joke!!) - in philosophy my teacher's getting pissed off with reading essays where people have spent half their time defining what they're talking about instead of, um, talking about it (so like telling her what the ontological argument is or whatever). So, to remedy this, she's set the whole class a bunch of essays like Which Is The Nicer Colour, Blue Or Orange where no-one's going to sit there defining "blue" or whatever. Aaaaanyway, my question was:

Assess The Usefulness Of Men

So... go!

[Chloe]

Here's some fun for you crazy bulldykes (joke!!) - in philosophy my teacher's getting pissed off with reading essays where people have spent half their time defining what they're talking about instead of, um, talking about it (so like telling her what the ontological argument is or whatever). So, to remedy this, she's set the whole class a bunch of essays like Which Is The Nicer Colour, Blue Or Orange where no-one's going to sit there defining "blue" or whatever. Aaaaanyway, my question was:

Assess The Usefulness Of Men

So... go!

HAHAHA! This is BRILLIANT!

http://www.womansavers.com/funny-quotes.asp

[Indja]

I'm going for the angle that they're no more or less useful than women, but then trounce that with the argument that the great lovelies of the world - art, music, pets, etc - have no real use as such, but are still hugely valuable just because they're marvellous. I love men xD They're so lovely.

[peppamintdynamo]

http://blogs.tampabay.com/photo/2009/11/terrorism-thats-personal.html

The plight of these women are among the many reasons I consider myself a feminist. I don't hate men, in fact there are lots of men I respect. But while crimes are being committed around the world towards women - BECAUSE they are women, and some men think they have the right to commit these crimes - I will keep working for rights for women.

[imaginary friend]

saw this, figured it might interest some here:    http://www.alternet.org/story/153984/do_men_belong_in_the_women%27s_movement?page=entire

[Indja]

^Great article, thank you I was actually talking about this with Paul today. He says he won't call himself a feminist for two reasons, partly because he doesn't like to label himself (which is a whole other debate) and partly because he doesn't feel that, as a man, he has the right to talk about women's issues. We chatted for a long time about how, IMO, feminist issues *are* men's issues as well, because all men know women, and the lives of those women impact directly on them. It was a good talk

[Astica]

I think men can be feminists if they believe in equality and care about womens rights issues.