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Author Topic: Gayness  (Read 285079 times)

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the CAPS guy

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2009, 04:47:05 PM »

So, are you gay? Are you LGBT, undecided or other?
I'm T and fairly certain I'm B too. Problem is, the T doesn't really go with the others in terms of this survey, and up until recently, I didn't know my sexuality at all: the T has affected my life a HUGE amount more. Which makes me answering this survey a little...tricky.


Well, i just want to say to you that it's great you are T and you are so brave, i admire you, you seems a very nice person and someone who i would love to be your friend.
I HAD A T FRIEND.

in another things, and talking about sexuality, i really don't like drag queens... i mean, i think they are fake and destructive people. i know that some of you will blame me for saying this, but i used to go to gay/lesbian clubs, and i never, never, never saw or meet a nice drag queen, i mean, a centered drag queen.

All of they want is to do a SHOW of everything, i mean, they behave fake 99% of the time, where is the real person? i think they are depressing because when you are not a real person 100% of the time it will kill you. THEY HIDE THE REAL PERSON UNDER POUNDS AND POUNDS OF MAKE UP, literally.

Drag queens ARE VULGAR, and i know that sometimes being vulgar is funny, but sometimes you have to behave under some circunstances, they  CAN'T  behave and they think thay they are defeating everything just for being like that. SO WRONG.

PLEASE GAY BOYS AND T's, NEVER BECAME A DRAG QUEEN.
ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS CONSERVE YOUR ESSENCE.

Now that I've said what I think.. you can blame me.
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Indja

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2009, 04:51:50 PM »

I like the way drag queens look. I wish straight boys would be drag queens xD I like transvestites too, but not convincing ones - boys in fishnets are hawt, boys who look like girls aren't. To me, I mean.
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slyvia k

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2009, 05:00:56 PM »

So, are you gay? Are you LGBT, undecided or other?
I'm T and fairly certain I'm B too. Problem is, the T doesn't really go with the others in terms of this survey, and up until recently, I didn't know my sexuality at all: the T has affected my life a HUGE amount more. Which makes me answering this survey a little...tricky.


Well, i just want to say to you that it's great you are T and you are so brave, i admire you, you seems a very nice person and someone who i would love to be your friend.
I HAD A T FRIEND.

in another things, and talking about sexuality, i really don't like drag queens... i mean, i think they are fake and destructive people. i know that some of you will blame me for saying this, but i used to go to gay/lesbian clubs, and i never, never, never saw or meet a nice drag queen, i mean, a centered drag queen.

All of they want is to do a SHOW of everything, i mean, they behave fake 99% of the time, where is the real person? i think they are depressing because when you are not a real person 100% of the time it will kill you. THEY HIDE THE REAL PERSON UNDER POUNDS AND POUNDS OF MAKE UP, literally.

Drag queens ARE VULGAR, and i know that sometimes being vulgar is funny, but sometimes you have to behave under some circunstances, they  CAN'T  behave and they think thay they are defeating everything just for being like that. SO WRONG.

PLEASE GAY BOYS AND T's, NEVER BECAME A DRAG QUEEN.
ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS CONSERVE YOUR ESSENCE.

Now that I've said what I think.. you can blame me.
oooh, drag queens.
well, some people are professional crossdressers so of course they do a SHOW, and they're damn good at it.
and i definitely do not agree that all drag queens are vulgar. some might be more elegant than many ladies out there, actually.
one of my favourite movies ever is on drag queens (priscilla, queen of the desert).

and yes indie, i too like how drag queens look like. actually, when i was a kid, i wanted to be a drag queen. i hadn't considered that uhm i was missing the main ingredient lol. i feel so sexist but i don't find drag kings half as fascinating.
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the CAPS guy

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2009, 05:05:16 PM »

I like the way drag queens look. I wish straight boys would be drag queens xD I like transvestites too, but not convincing ones - boys in fishnets are hawt, boys who look like girls aren't. To me, I mean.

thanks! You give a point that i forgot to talk about!

Girls' opinions about drags are mostly good, i mean... girls always see drags like funny and good... drags likes girls as most gays likes girls friends instead of boys friends.

there are just few girls who don't likes drags.

come on girls! drags shouldn't be judged as a funny/fashion object, you have to look the real person.

DO YOU THINK THAT YOU COULD MARRY WITH A DRAG IF HE WAS A STRAIGHT MAN?  
... I MEAN, COULD YOU MARRY WITH THE PERSONALITY OF A DRAG?

oooh, drag queens.
well, some people are professional crossdressers so of course they do a SHOW, and they're damn good at it.
and i definitely do not agree that all drag queens are vulgar. some might be more elegant than many ladies out there, actually.
one of my favourite movies ever is on drag queens (priscilla, queen of the desert).

and yes indie, i too like how drag queens look like. actually, when i was a kid, i wanted to be a drag queen. i hadn't considered that uhm i was missing the main ingredient lol. i feel so sexist but i don't find drag kings half as fascinating.

yeah! the different thing about a drag and a real t, is because a real t is like a normal girl, they want to be a normal gir!
drag queens are always trying to be MORE than a girl buy THEY JUST... CAN'T.
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Re: Gayness
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2009, 05:13:08 PM »

(Not blaming, just my two cents...)
Living in Brighton and going to some of the club nights that I do in London, I come across alot of drag queens. I've never met one who struck me as unpleasant. They're just living out their lives in the way they want and having a good time, as everyone should have the right to do. And good for them, it takes some guts and conviction to do what they do and if they're happy doing it then I don't think people should judge them anymore than they should me or you.

We all wear masks and hide behind persona to a certain extent, I don't think the thickness of a drag queen's make up is really an issue in that sense. It could be the way they show the world who their 'real person' is.
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Re: Gayness
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2009, 05:17:39 PM »

So, are you gay? Are you LGBT, undecided or other?
I'm T and fairly certain I'm B too. Problem is, the T doesn't really go with the others in terms of this survey, and up until recently, I didn't know my sexuality at all: the T has affected my life a HUGE amount more. Which makes me answering this survey a little...tricky.


Well, i just want to say to you that it's great you are T and you are so brave, i admire you, you seems a very nice person and someone who i would love to be your friend.
I HAD A T FRIEND.
Thankyou, sweetheart :)
I'd love to be your friend too!

in another things, and talking about sexuality, i really don't like drag queens... i mean, i think they are fake and destructive people. i know that some of you will blame me for saying this, but i used to go to gay/lesbian clubs, and i never, never, never saw or meet a nice drag queen, i mean, a centered drag queen.

All of they want is to do a SHOW of everything, i mean, they behave fake 99% of the time, where is the real person? i think they are depressing because when you are not a real person 100% of the time it will kill you. THEY HIDE THE REAL PERSON UNDER POUNDS AND POUNDS OF MAKE UP, literally.

Drag queens ARE VULGAR, and i know that sometimes being vulgar is funny, but sometimes you have to behave under some circunstances, they  CAN'T  behave and they think thay they are defeating everything just for being like that. SO WRONG.

PLEASE GAY BOYS AND T's, NEVER BECAME A DRAG QUEEN.
ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS CONSERVE YOUR ESSENCE.

Now that I've said what I think.. you can blame me.
Most transwomen who do drag shows do it for the money because they are destitute, often having run away from home. Drag is usually associated with transvestitism, which has very little to do with transsexuality. It's a problem sometimes, because people get the two confused.

TVs aren't trying to be more than girls. They're doing it for the show. They may be feminine, but they are not female. I have a little bias against them, because of the aforementioned confusion between them and transsexuals (which even happens in Rocky Horror), but I don't think them especially vulgar. Some of them are very classy.

Transsexuals on the other hand...well, in the cases of transwomen, they ARE women. They are female. And they do want to be normal girls, as in girls born physically female. TVs definitely do not, and the few that actually have tried usually freak when they start growing real breasts and realise what a mistake they made.

As long as the distinction is clear, I don't mind.

boys in fishnets are hawt, boys who look like girls aren't. To me, I mean.
Haha, well, I quite like boys in eyeliner myself. And some androgynous boys are really very very pretty :)
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the CAPS guy

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2009, 05:18:15 PM »

(Not blaming, just my two cents...)
Living in Brighton and going to some of the club nights that I do in London, I come across alot of drag queens. I've never met one who struck me as unpleasant. They're just living out their lives in the way they want and having a good time, as everyone should have the right to do. And good for them, it takes some guts and conviction to do what they do and if they're happy doing it then I don't think people should judge them anymore than they should me or you.

We all wear masks and hide behind persona to a certain extent, I don't think the thickness of a drag queen's make up is really an issue in that sense. It could be the way they show the world who their 'real person' is.

thank you for saying that, you're right, everyone should have the right to do whatever they think it's good, but i think they should be more real, i think it is not good for their health to do a show of everything all the time.


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old news

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2009, 05:21:51 PM »

(Not blaming, just my two cents...)
Living in Brighton and going to some of the club nights that I do in London, I come across alot of drag queens. I've never met one who struck me as unpleasant. They're just living out their lives in the way they want and having a good time, as everyone should have the right to do. And good for them, it takes some guts and conviction to do what they do and if they're happy doing it then I don't think people should judge them anymore than they should me or you.

We all wear masks and hide behind persona to a certain extent, I don't think the thickness of a drag queen's make up is really an issue in that sense. It could be the way they show the world who their 'real person' is.

thank you for saying that, you're right, everyone should have the right to do whatever they think it's good, but i think they should be more real, i think it is not good for their health to do a show of everything all the time.
I don't agree with this point. I don't really see how their health is involved in this. They are being real, as far as what they want to do. And a lot of drag queens don't stay in drag 'all the time'.
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the CAPS guy

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2009, 05:22:04 PM »


Most transwomen who do drag shows do it for the money because they are destitute, often having run away from home. Drag is usually associated with transvestitism, which has very little to do with transsexuality. It's a problem sometimes, because people get the two confused.

TVs aren't trying to be more than girls. They're doing it for the show. They may be feminine, but they are not female. I have a little bias against them, because of the aforementioned confusion between them and transsexuals (which even happens in Rocky Horror), but I don't think them especially vulgar. Some of them are very classy.

Transsexuals on the other hand...well, in the cases of transwomen, they ARE women. They are female. And they do want to be normal girls, as in girls born physically female. TVs definitely do not, and the few that actually have tried usually freak when they start growing real breasts and realise what a mistake they made.

As long as the distinction is clear, I don't mind.


thank you! and I just want to say that I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. i couldn't explain it better!

(Not blaming, just my two cents...)
Living in Brighton and going to some of the club nights that I do in London, I come across alot of drag queens. I've never met one who struck me as unpleasant. They're just living out their lives in the way they want and having a good time, as everyone should have the right to do. And good for them, it takes some guts and conviction to do what they do and if they're happy doing it then I don't think people should judge them anymore than they should me or you.

We all wear masks and hide behind persona to a certain extent, I don't think the thickness of a drag queen's make up is really an issue in that sense. It could be the way they show the world who their 'real person' is.

thank you for saying that, you're right, everyone should have the right to do whatever they think it's good, but i think they should be more real, i think it is not good for their health to do a show of everything all the time.
I don't agree with this point. I don't really see how their health is involved in this. They are being real, as far as what they want to do. And a lot of drag queens don't stay in drag 'all the time'.

What I meant to say is what you said already, a trannsexual IS a girl. a DragQueen IS an actor.   

when they base their lifes 99% to be a drag queen they can loose their essence, they think they are real but ask them when nobody is around... ask them what they feel. when nobody is around them.. when they are alone...

and i agree with you that some people just do it for money and if they don't stay in drag all the time it is good, IN THIS CASE I CAN SEE THE ART OF BEING A DRAG.

I JUST CAN'T SEE THE ART WHEN YOU ARE AN ACTOR 100% OF THE TIME.
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yosmark

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2009, 05:26:02 PM »

A capacitor?
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Re: Gayness
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2009, 05:44:57 PM »

well, some people are professional crossdressers so of course they do a SHOW, and they're damn good at it.

(Going to see an amazing recurring tour with my crush this summer: Lady Boys of Bankok. They are freaking awesome and H.O.T.)
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Lyzardly

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2009, 09:38:37 PM »

Drag Queens at the 801 Cabaret is an interesting read. It shares the stories of drag queens researched by two lesbian researchers (Taylor and Rupp). I read pieces of it as part of a research methodologies class, so most of my reading was based in reviewing and critiquing the methodologies used. (Also very interesting, how to negotiate the researcher/researched power dynamic reflexively, etc.)

Anyway, the book is basically drag queens telling their stories, in their own voices as much as possible. Regardless of your thoughts on drag (and whether you think Judith Butler appropriated it, exploited it, showed it's value in Gender Trouble) - I think it's worth checking out of the local library.

My two pennies have been tossed.
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the CAPS guy

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2009, 10:04:05 PM »

Drag Queens at the 801 Cabaret is an interesting read. It shares the stories of drag queens researched by two lesbian researchers (Taylor and Rupp). I read pieces of it as part of a research methodologies class, so most of my reading was based in reviewing and critiquing the methodologies used. (Also very interesting, how to negotiate the researcher/researched power dynamic reflexively, etc.)

Anyway, the book is basically drag queens telling their stories, in their own voices as much as possible. Regardless of your thoughts on drag (and whether you think Judith Butler appropriated it, exploited it, showed it's value in Gender Trouble) - I think it's worth checking out of the local library.

My two pennies have been tossed.

I guess i can't have access to that book but it seems interesting.

So, you read it, what did you found out?

I'd love to read your opinion about what you found out on the book.

According to the book, are drags centered people? Or they just live for the show hidding theirselves?
Are they happy all the time? Or they want to die when nobody is near them?

What a best resource than a book.
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Lyzardly

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2009, 10:45:41 PM »

Drag Queens at the 801 Cabaret is an interesting read. It shares the stories of drag queens researched by two lesbian researchers (Taylor and Rupp). I read pieces of it as part of a research methodologies class, so most of my reading was based in reviewing and critiquing the methodologies used. (Also very interesting, how to negotiate the researcher/researched power dynamic reflexively, etc.)

Anyway, the book is basically drag queens telling their stories, in their own voices as much as possible. Regardless of your thoughts on drag (and whether you think Judith Butler appropriated it, exploited it, showed it's value in Gender Trouble) - I think it's worth checking out of the local library.

My two pennies have been tossed.

I guess i can't have access to that book but it seems interesting.

So, you read it, what did you found out?

I'd love to read your opinion about what you found out on the book.

According to the book, are drags centered people? Or they just live for the show hidding theirselves?
Are they happy all the time? Or they want to die when nobody is near them?

What a best resource than a book.

No access to the book? For why? I would mail it to you if I owned it because I am a book commie and I think everyone should be able to read anything they want.

I only read excerpts, like I said because it was for a research class so the focus was on the research methods and how they impacted the data - the difference between getting audience volunteers for focus groups when the drag queens announced vs. when the researchers announced, etc.

Anyway, from what I did read it demonstrated that drag queens are human. Some are self-centered. Some are generous. Some are drug addicts. Some are anti-drugs. Some are HIV positive. Some are HIV negative. Many are destitute. Some were in a good space and happy when the research was done and some were not.

I'm not sure if you meant to be ironic with the comment about a book being the best resource, so I'm going to respond gingerly. I'm new here, don't know you, you don't me. Reading has not been my only experience with drag. My father used to judge drag shows in Utah, I've been to plenty of drag shows - both drag queen and drag king - and have friends who do drag, both king and queen again. And my experience has been similar to my limited experience with the book I mentioned.

People who do drag are human. Everyone I have met and spoke with does drag for a different reason. Certainly, some drag performers are self-centered, egotistic, drama fiends ... as are many other types of performers. What drives someone to dress in drag and prance around on stage? I don't know, I imagine the answer is multiple and varied, but I would guess it's not too far from what what drives people to dress is costume and act in plays, or perform their music, or display their art. Some people are driven by drag/performance/music, some people are attention-seeking/self-centered/trying to work out Freudian issues in public.

Drag can be transgressive. It can challenge conceptions about what gender is and how it is constructed in our society. Drag can also be highly entertaining. It can be a great show. And drag can be degrading. It can contribute to the reinforcement of traditional gender stereotypes of the idea that those who do drag are freaks to be paraded around. I've seen some brilliant drag and I've seem some drag that I thought was just plain crass.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as saying that people who do drag are always putting on a show. In some ways, we all perform our gender. If you perform it "well" heteronormative society rewards you, if you perform it "poorly" heteronormative society has clearly punitive consequences.

And this is much longer than I intended. Sorry about that.

If you are interested in the book, or in Butler's Gender Trouble - let me know and I will keep an eye open at local bookstores. I am serious about mailing it if you can't get it. I'm the book commie.
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Its secret is rather the possibility that indeed it might have no secret, that it might only be pretending to be simulating some hidden truth within its folds. ~Derrida

I have forgotten my umbrella. ~Nietzsche

tanqgirl

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Re: Gayness
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2009, 11:00:54 PM »

my favorite transvestite is eddie izzard and he's hilarious...he likes to talk about being in drag so the conversation reminded me of him

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