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Author Topic: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland  (Read 9778 times)

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Rini Martini

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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2010, 05:09:35 PM »

I've seen this twice at the cinema already! I really, really loved it. I think it's a stunningly beautiful film, and the whole cast is just perfect.

Having said that though, I too cringed at the Mad Hatter's dance. The choice of music and choreography was totally wrong - it stood out far too much from the rest of the film, and just felt like the end of Napoleon Dynamite. I think it would have been so much better if he'd done perhaps a Scottish jig or something...?

I agree that the White Queen was underdeveloped as a character, too. Though I didn't mind that too much, as I found Anne Hathaway really annoying - I was much happier watching more of the Mad Hatter and the Queen of Hearts. Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham-Carter can do no wrong.

I think that parts of the film could have been a lot darker than they were as well, like the scene where Alice crosses the moat to the Queen of Hearts' castle. You don't get much of a chance to realise how gruesome that actually is, it's really skimmed over. I guess they didn't want to go too far and lose the appeal to a younger audience...

Also, Avril in the credits? Ouch.

Otherwise though - wonderful. Cannot wait for the DVD!
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FrailAndBedazzled

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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2010, 11:17:23 PM »

^The thing is, they cut down the White Queen so much that all you got was her dithering, and only got one or two glimpses into the fact that she's not actually all good (a couple of bitchy lines directed at Alice, and mostly the fact that as the younger sister, she's technically a usurper).
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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2010, 11:53:08 PM »

Just got back from watching it and, like I said on Twitter, to say I loved it is an understatement. I had so much fun watching this, I fell in love with the entire cast and was just excited from the beginning to the end. Favorite film of 2010 by far, even if I have no idea what the fuck Burton was smoking when he didn't edit the Mad Hatter's dance out. Gah! I need to see it again!
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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2010, 10:43:50 AM »

This movie was quite a disappointment for me... not that I didn't have fun, sure, the whole thing was really good, funny, loved the word play, loved the design, loved Johnny's and Helena's acting, loved the soundtrack (MOST of it, maybe without the Avril's song in the credits :P), but... it wasn't what I thought it'll be. It totally lacked the spirit, I mean, this whole creepy-weird-dark Burton spirit, which was so clear in, for example, Sweeney Todd, not to mention Beetlejuice... or even Corpse Bride, or anything.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think it was a bad movie. In fact, I think it was really, really good, as a movie in general. But not as a Burton movie - here's the thing. It was just too... too sweet, too cute (I'm not saying all of it, just the general impression in comparison to other works), too... Disney-like? It would be SO MUCH bettet without this whole grand Hollywood ending with Alice as a princess on white horse (umm.. it wasn't actually a horse, but you get what I mean) slaying the baaaad Jabberwocky beast. And without those so obvious attraction between the Mad Hatter and Alice. And without Avril at the end, but those were just credits, so they don't count that much.

I'm quite a big fan of the Carroll's book and it's dark, weird atmosphere, so I was extremely excited about that particular director making this movie, and I really expected it as one of his greatest works, concerning all those really cool graphics from the trailer, concerning actors starring... and it just wasn't it.

And I get it - probably if that movie was dark, weird, creepy and psychedelic, it won't get so much of the positive response, it won't get so much money, it won't be suitable for kids, so it won't be classified PG, so not that much people would see it, so...blah blah blah. I get it, really... I'm just sad Burton decided to make it a great money-raising hit instead of some kind of... art? As I perceive some of his other productions. Man, maybe that's me who's weird here.... but still.
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Matty

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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2010, 10:56:44 AM »

I havn't seen the movie yet, but from what I've heard, it's a bit of a bastardization of the source material, not that that's much different than any Alice adaptation. From what I've seen, and I may be wrong, it seems as though The Mad Hatter's role has been upped a bit probably because that's the role Johnny Depp played.
Honestly, I really think Tim Burton is losing his touch. The last movie he did that he did that I REALLY liked was Big Fish. I think these two videos have got it pretty down pat.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/bFzLRP8e4vE&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/bFzLRP8e4vE&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VViTfSmpYtI&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/VViTfSmpYtI&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&amp;</a>
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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2010, 07:41:04 AM »

see, i really didn't like big fish.  it's not easy to be a burton fan, honestly.  i sometimes feel like i was the only burton fan who owned a copy of the original sweeney todd dvd with angela lansbury and george hearn.  and, to be honest, there is no way that burton's usual cast of characters can or ever could pull off a show like that without having the voices to sing the incredibly difficult sondheim score, not to mention the usual burton audiences could totally understand and appreciate the incredible songs without cutting them, which they of course did.  visually, it was awesome (it's always awesome visually), although there generally seems to be no way to make mr. depp not look nine years old.  and i will be happy if i never hear helena bonham carter sing again; i thought patti lupone did a good enough job of murdering mrs lovett already.  god, she's awful.

i was nervous about alice in wonderland because of my growing disappointment in sweeney todd and subsequent burton projects...and i liked it, but i found it pretty boring, in the end.  not good, not bad, and very pretty, but boring.  i've come to face facts, that burton probably peaked with nightmare before christmas.
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Matty

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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #81 on: April 30, 2010, 02:44:25 AM »

see, i really didn't like big fish.  it's not easy to be a burton fan, honestly.  i sometimes feel like i was the only burton fan who owned a copy of the original sweeney todd dvd with angela lansbury and george hearn.  and, to be honest, there is no way that burton's usual cast of characters can or ever could pull off a show like that without having the voices to sing the incredibly difficult sondheim score, not to mention the usual burton audiences could totally understand and appreciate the incredible songs without cutting them, which they of course did.  visually, it was awesome (it's always awesome visually), although there generally seems to be no way to make mr. depp not look nine years old.  and i will be happy if i never hear helena bonham carter sing again; i thought patti lupone did a good enough job of murdering mrs lovett already.  god, she's awful.

i was nervous about alice in wonderland because of my growing disappointment in sweeney todd and subsequent burton projects...and i liked it, but i found it pretty boring, in the end.  not good, not bad, and very pretty, but boring.  i've come to face facts, that burton probably peaked with nightmare before christmas.

Which he himself didn't even direct. Funny.

I didn't like Sweeney Todd, I'm already biased because I almost always hate slashers, and that Burton cast his favorite actors, friends and wife yet again, instead of choosing actors fit to play the parts (singing ability is an important point here-none of the cast were god awful, but they the fantastic singers a musical adaptation should have had-no)

For me, the BEST film he directed was Beetlejuice. All of his movies from the beginning of his career, including Vincent and Frankenweenie, yeah, even Peewee, are brilliant up until Mars Attacks, which is like this weird transition, because as stupid as it is, I still love it. After that they either sucked or they were just alright. (except Big Fish, OMG I love Big Fish)
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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2010, 01:46:10 PM »

...Burton cast his favorite actors, friends and wife yet again, instead of choosing actors fit to play the parts...
Mel Brooks always did this, and when he no longer had Gene Wilder et al to work with, the films suffered.
While this may be attributed to weaker all-around scripts, I think it's largely a matter of a director having
a rapport with certain actors that lets his intended vision reach the screen intact (or at least consistently interpreted).

Seriously, watch Robin Hood: Men In Tights*....  (Do it for science...)
I love Cary Elwes, but English-accent jokes notwithstanding, it's Gene Wilder's part... and nothing
against Dave Chapelle, but that sidekick should be Cleavon Little, Marian should be Madeline Kahn
(25 or thirty years younger than she is now), the nurse? Cloris Leachman of course.... and so on.

Burton's "fixed cast" is smaller, but imho more essential to his work, for better or worse.


*...after thoroughly familiarizing yourself with The Producers (1968), Blazing Saddles & Young Frankenstein.
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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #83 on: May 01, 2010, 09:37:07 AM »

john waters is another one with his own preferred cast (and he had johnny depp first)....

of course, tim burton is no john waters.  neither is mel brooks for that matter.
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CeeGBee

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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #84 on: May 01, 2010, 10:13:25 AM »

tim burton is no john waters.  neither is mel brooks for that matter.
Comparing apples & oranges bungee cords... 
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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #85 on: May 01, 2010, 03:41:47 PM »

tim burton is no john waters.  neither is mel brooks for that matter.
Comparing apples & oranges bungee cords... 
nah, not comparing their work, just scriptwriting, concepts, directing and story consistency talent, not to mention social consciousness and above all, CAMP VALUE.
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Matty

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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #86 on: May 08, 2010, 03:33:26 PM »

Mel Brooks films were mainly silly comedies and parodies and John Waters films were campy and weird and had a b-movie indie sensibility to them. Brooks films weren't about best portraying a character, they were about making it funny and sometimes even contrary to the source material (Rick Moranis as Dark Helmet..). Waters films were admittedly Divine-heavy (no pun intended) until his death, but at least for the last 20 years his group of actors has mainly been in supporting roles, and many of the roles seem to have been designed with the actor in mind.
Burton takes something to adapt (his ratio of original movies to adaptations is growing more disproportionate every year...) and sticks his actors in without stopping for a moment to think that it might be more respectful to the source material to consider a different actor who may be better fit than Johnny Depp (who is really getting boring). Also, his films are generally more serious as well as mainstream.


btw, I like Robin Hood: Men In Tights, Cary Ewles is like my hero. Dracula: Dead And Loving It sucked though. I don't like the chick that plays Maid Marian/Mina Harker. Also... I liked Dave Chappele.
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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #87 on: May 08, 2010, 06:33:06 PM »

Dracula: Dead And Loving It sucked ...

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Re: Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2010, 02:26:57 AM »

personally i see Alice as being very much a missed opportunity and seemed to suffer from the HAND OF DISNEY...it could have been this....

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