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[Cheddars Cousin]

I would exclude myself from the WIC program!

[CeeGBee]

Well clearly you're not Government Cheese....

[85283-071]

Or JFK? Good Question. They are either outsiders in some other regard or they develop those skills despite the lack of a great need to do so.
[/quote]


Within the realm of any socio-economic spectrum, there is competition. There is always an advantage (or need, relative to one's objectives) in possessing skills of analysis and articulation. The value of such skills, in many cases, will be affected by one's backgrounds and opportunities (althoughI doubt it is so simple and linear as the model being suggested), but your use of an absolute like "only" blew the whole idea into the realm of falsity.

[Andy Pants]

Or JFK? Good Question. They are either outsiders in some other regard or they develop those skills despite the lack of a great need to do so.

Within the realm of any socio-economic spectrum, there is competition. There is always an advantage (or need, relative to one's objectives) in possessing skills of analysis and articulation. The value of such skills, in many cases, will be affected by one's backgrounds and opportunities (althoughI doubt it is so simple and linear as the model being suggested), but your use of an absolute like "only" blew the whole idea into the realm of falsity.
[/quote]

I always speak in absolutes.

[N.U.]

Bush made no mistakes. The mistakes were the Democrats in congress and the people of the United States of America.

[CeeGBee]

Bush made no mistakes. The mistakes were the Democrats in congress and the people of the United States of America.

...and of France, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and North Korea (in that order).

Oh, and Russia, China, Great Britain (what were they thinking?  Nobody would ever have
guessed that all the Iraq WMD intel was made up if they'd just kept their damn mouths
shut)....  That whole 'U.N.' outfit... What a bunch of sissies.

The lightweights in the Pentagon who kept insisting that Islamist fanatics wouldn't respond
to torture the way we wanted (and who made "torture" a bad word anyway?)

And those busybody judges who just wouldn't shut up about "rights"...  The only rights
that matter are my right to keep and bear arms.  If the Vice President (and his associate
The President, of course) want to put people in secret prisons, it's nobody else's biz.
These psychos aren't "Prisoners of War" so DOD and the Red Cross need to shut the f up,
and they're not "criminal defendants", they're DETAINEES and unlawful combatants, so the
lawyers and judges likewise need to stfu and let Dick & Dubya keep us all safe from oppression.

[N.U.]

nope. the fault didn't go beyond what I mentioned. Only one member of the senate voted against the PATRIOT Act (Russ Feingold), though it was obvious none of them had the time to read the entirety of the act.

The Democrats ran out a bad candidate, an obviously duplicitous candidate, content upon windsurfing their way through the election. And half of all voters, who had all that info out there for them, including the swiftboating, bought into it, giving W the win.

You can pretend all you want that W wasn't elected twice.

Sorry. Too bad. Wake up from you self-delusion. W was elected twice. Period.

If you think that sucks, you might want to ask yourself what exactly did you do to prevent it, either in 2000 or 2004.

Me? I voted for W in 2000. I PROUDLY voted for Bush in 2000. That is just how low an opinion of Al Gore Jr. I have as a politician.

I voted Kerry in 2004 simply as a vote of "no confidence" in our current president, not because he wowed me. The only thing that wowed me in 2004 was the Barack Obama keynote speech at the DNC.

[Rob]

I've missed you N.U.!

[CeeGBee]

nope. the fault didn't go beyond what I mentioned. Only one member of the senate voted against the PATRIOT Act (Russ Feingold), though it was obvious none of them had the time to read the entirety of the act.

The Democrats ran out a bad candidate, an obviously duplicitous candidate, content upon windsurfing their way through the election. And half of all voters, who had all that info out there for them, including the swiftboating, bought into it, giving W the win.

You can pretend all you want that W wasn't elected twice.

Sorry. Too bad. Wake up from you self-delusion. W was elected twice. Period.

If you think that sucks, you might want to ask yourself what exactly did you do to prevent it, either in 2000 or 2004.

Me? I voted for W in 2000. I PROUDLY voted for Bush in 2000. That is just how low an opinion of Al Gore Jr. I have as a politician.

I voted Kerry in 2004 simply as a vote of "no confidence" in our current president, not because he wowed me. The only thing that wowed me in 2004 was the Barack Obama keynote speech at the DNC.

I never said he wasn't elected...  certainly he won the second time around.

So was Hitler.  [what's the somethingorother-effect?]

That he was elected in no way changes the fact that he was a fuck-up as Vice President
(cuz lets face it, up to mid-07, Cheney was calling the shots).

[N.U.]

We're not going to buy into ANY of this.

Bush was elected as President.

Cheney was elected as Vice President.

The Bush administration were a bunch of well-tenured Washington insiders who bullied the Democrats in both houses of Congress.

And the Democrats in congress let themselves be bullied!

My point is this: Bush is a great smokescreen for the failings of the Democratic party, but Bush wasn't a fuck-up. Bush did everything and anything he wanted to do without any protest from the legislative branch.

There are also 6 presidents that Bush will rate higher than in terms of "being a good president"
1. James Buchanon - He did nothing to prevent the oncoming Civil War, pissing off the South to the point that all it took as Lincoln bein gelected for the Civil War to start.
2. Franklin Pierce - From New Hampshire, Southern Sympathizer, repealed the Missouri Compromise, opening up the possibility of slavery in the West. He set events in motion that led directly to the Civil War. Also a distant relation of Barbara Bush, George W. Bush's mother.
3. Warren G. Harding - was popular until the Teapot Dome scandal was exposed after his death. Arguably the most corrupt administration in US History.
4. Herbert Hoover - did nothign to stop, slow, or mitigate the oncoming Great Depression, going so far as to order the Army to roust a bunch of homeless WWI vets living in a tent city (known then as "Hoovervilles") across the Potomac from Washington DC.
5. Richard M. Nixon - Sadly it's my opinion that if not for Watergate, he woudl be viewed as one of the most successful presidents of the 20th century. If not for Watergate, he would be remembered for ending the Vietnam War, opening relations with China, and negotiating both the anti-ballistic missile treaty and the policy of detente between the USSR and the US during the height of the Cold War.
That being said, Nixon = bad because of Watergate.
6. Calvin Coolidge - the president who I most closely associate W. with. Did nothing to prevent the oncoming Depression and left Hoover to deal with the cleanup, both irresponsible positions to take.

[Agonistes]

nothing anyone can say will convince me that gwb was elected either fairly, or correctly, or above-board.  the electoral college is unconstitutional and should be abolished, but the miscounting or falsification of votes, being as easy as it has been, was also a factor.

[N.U.]

nothing anyone can say will convince me that gwb was elected either fairly, or correctly, or above-board.  the electoral college is unconstitutional and should be abolished, but the miscounting or falsification of votes, being as easy as it has been, was also a factor.

Then I have nothing to say to you. If you're content to sit there like a child with their fingers in their ears, yelling, "LALALALALALALA," then don't let me disturb you.

However, let me point out the glaring flaw in your above statement.

US Constitution Article 2, section 1. By it's very appearance in the US Constitution, that makes it completely constitutional. It was also been updated in the 12th, 14th, and 24th Amendments to the US Constitution, which only further makes your statement look like you skipped US History.

BTW, it took all of 15 seconds to find the information that I posted here via Google.

[Rob]

Where ever you went while you were gone...was a wonderful place.

[CeeGBee]

nothing anyone can say will convince me that gwb was elected either fairly, or correctly, or above-board.  the electoral college is unconstitutional and should be abolished, but the miscounting or falsification of votes, being as easy as it has been, was also a factor.

Then I have nothing to say to you. If you're content to sit there like a child with their fingers in their ears, yelling, "LALALALALALALA," then don't let me disturb you.

However, let me point out the glaring flaw in your above statement.

US Constitution Article 2, section 1. By it's very appearance in the US Constitution, that makes it completely constitutional. It was also been updated in the 12th, 14th, and 24th Amendments to the US Constitution, which only further makes your statement look like you skipped US History.

BTW, it took all of 15 seconds to find the information that I posted here via Google.

Alas, he's right about the Electoral College.  (To which I would append that I believe all 50 states
should adopt the system used by Maine and Nebraska, which allocates the majority of a state's
electors on a district-by-district basis [which, in turn would necessitate an end to the current
incumbent-protection system of districting] rather than the current winner-take-all system that
really does render most of our votes utterly irrelevant.)

Also, despite his many failings, and the scandal that brought him down (which pales in comparison
to the exploits of some of his successors), Nixon was a very effective President.  He wasn't afraid
to engage in diplomacy with "our enemies" or to admit that South Vietnam was unsustainable.  He
made tough calls, and stuck by them...  and then he sent a bunch of idiots to spy on the Dems to
make sure he had an inside track for reelection.... 
In the immortal words of H.J.Simpson - "D'Oh!" 

[MerelyMarquis]

"This is just the madness of king George. Yo George."

At least he made for a good Tori Amos song