AFP Responds to Bob Lefsetz re: Imogen Heap/music as a means of connection

[indeciSEAN]

For those of you who don't follow Bob Lefsetz yet (you can fix that here BTW):

Bob's recently posted two pieces on Imogen Heap and how she is connecting with fans, analyzing the pros and cons of the whole thing, from Twitter to shows to social media in general.
You can find Part 1 HERE and Part 2 HERE - they're both interesting, whether or not you agree.

Obviously when reading either of these, I was thinking about Amanda because of the similarities, and then he even name-checked her in his second piece...
In the new "mailbag" (where Bob collects recent responses and whatnot) there was in fact something from AFP in regards to the whole shebang:

the new art of twitter and blogging and realtime connection with hundreds and thousands of people means that the very role and meaning of the rock star is changing.

watch it happen.

i started making the music in the first place not because i wanted music, but because i wanted human connection.
music was the bridge there.

(it took me a long time to admit this to myself, because i felt guilty and like a naughty/bad/inauthentic artist when i truly discovered this, in my mid-twenties, classic crisis time).

BUT this is, hands fucking down, also why people listen, why they search, why they want art.

connection = primary.
music/art  = secondary.

yes, you need a filter (like you're often saying) to FIND the music you love and connect to (and that filter has evolved and will continue to evolve....radio-vinyl-MTV-blogs and on and on)
BUT
the music ITSELF is a filter to connect to another human expressing mind/heart that blows your skirt up and makes you feel alive, not alone, etc etc what have you.

so in a weird way, music may take the backseat and act as a filter to those you follow on twitter....not the other way around.
fucked up, but maybe not.

it's a symbiosis. one will need the other, but don't discount the realtime human connection as only a tool.
it is and it's not.
for many people, it's the thing that they NEED and WANT, the holy grail of Not Feeling Alone in a world where that used to be JUST A FANTASY as you lay in bed with your headphones on, imagining a connection with the artist and the other people who might be out there in beds just like yours, imagining the same thing.

the music simply provides the necessary room in which the miraculous happens and all these bed-worlds collide in cyberspace.

there is a reason that i often find myself wanting to sit behind twitter and connect instead of sitting at the piano and writing.
there is a reason that the fans on there would often rather be connecting than lying in bed with their headphones on.

we do both. we need both.

twitter = realtime connection.
at the very end of the day, humans crave realtime connection.

that is Why It Works.


twitter.com/amandapalmer
amandapalmer.net

[doritojoe89]

for me, music is number one..

music is what i listen to in my car, before i go to bed and when i'm walking down the road jammin' with headphones...

you can't do that stuff with a twitter feed.

[MerelyMarquis]

I can see how for a singer/performer the connection is primary but, for a listener/fan, I think it's secondary. Music itself connects with us and that is enough though connections like Imogen or Amanda have with the fans are great.

For example, CocoRosie's music connects with me on so many levels but they don't have an online connection with their fans, really, but the music alone is enough. Another example would be Sarah Slean who only blogs when she's on tour, usually, I like long periods of no blogs because it kind of alerts me she's onto to something new like making another album which is what I want as a fan.

I have human connections with my friends, family, etc. so I don't need ones with singers but I can't deny it's great to have those connections too.

[daniellelavigne]

I personally feel that art is a connection between people in the first place. You're there with the musician and their work, having emotions together with their song or painting or film. Maybe it's not at the same time, in the same place, and sometimes it is, but it is a connection none the less. They share something with you, and in becoming a fan, you share back. It's this kind of broad love that transcends everything, if just for a moment.

The response I'd wanted to send to Lefsetz was that it's not all about money. Sometimes that is what it's about, and that is, to paraphrase him, the old way of doing things. That's not "real". That's not love or a connection. To want to squeeze every last penny out of every interaction with your fans seems so horribly disingenuous.

For me, the music is part of the connection between me as a fan and Amanda as a performer. But the rest is important to me, too. I'd still listen to the albums if she stopped twittering and blogging, but the non-music interactions add new depth to how I feel about them all the time, and knowing that she's out there spreading the love makes her so much more real.

She really does feel like a comrade in this viscious struggle we call life.

At my first show playing for the peoples, I said to my audience that it was so nice that I could find a form of socially acceptable attention-seeking. A little self-depricating, maybe, but it's so very true in a lot of ways. The love between an audience and an artist they're there to see is unbelievable... And besides my love of the music, it's a big part of why I play. Embarrassingly enough...

xxx

[Hayley Fiasco!]

I like Amanda's response.

It reminds me of something I was talking about to a few friends, actually, about the connection that fans want/seek.

My theory on why people are constantly seeking Amanda's attention here, on twitter, at signings etc.



I'm going to paraphrase my initial thoughts on this that I wrote in an email to someone, because I think it's very applicable to this discussion (and hell, it would be interesting to see what you guys, or even Amanda, think about it)

The 'neediness' of fans:

Ultimately I think it comes down to fans wanting the musician to acknowledge their existence. They appreciate the art and the musician so much, they recognize that the musician exists and that they have something important to say through their music and they want that artist to return that acknowledgment back to them in some way, they want their attention so that they can be noticed. So people will get excited when Amanda @ replies them on twitter, replies to their thread on the Shadowbox, or even better, when they get an autograph after the show. It's a moment of the fan saying to the artist: "I love you for what you've created and I appreciate you" and they hope to get the musician to say that back in the littlest, but personal, way. And I think in part, that explains why there's so much fan art in the community. Imagine that, the star saying to John Doe "I recognize your support, I acknowledge that you have a name and you're not just a SoundScan statistic").

So basically, the music, as Amanda was saying, is important, but so is the connections that people make via the songwriting, the musicians, and the fans.


I've made some excellent friends through the shadowbox - people I've met at Dresden Dolls/Amanda Palmer concerts, and even outside of the concerts - just going to get a slice of pizza or wondering around Union Square etc. Friends that share a love for the Dresden Dolls/Amanda but that's not what the friendships are based on. Sure that's how I know them, whether we met at a concert or through mutual friends - it doesn't matter - because if the only thing we had in common was a favorite band and appreciation for the same music, well the friendship wouldn't be as meaningful as it really is.

[Hayley Fiasco!]

I can see how for a singer/performer the connection is primary but, for a listener/fan, I think it's secondary. Music itself connects with us and that is enough though connections like Imogen or Amanda have with the fans are great.

For example, CocoRosie's music connects with me on so many levels but they don't have an online connection with their fans, really, but the music alone is enough. Another example would be Sarah Slean who only blogs when she's on tour, usually, I like long periods of no blogs because it kind of alerts me she's onto to something new like making another album which is what I want as a fan.

I have human connections with my friends, family, etc. so I don't need ones with singers but I can't deny it's great to have those connections too.

For Amanda it's about connection. She could write songs, play the piano, and retreat to her dressing room after concerts and that would be that. A lot of musicians do that. But for Amanda, no, that's only half of it, that's the vehicle for her to meet all of us, all of her fans that say to her, "What you're doing, what you're saying... it moves me. It moves me because..." and that's important for her. A while back someone suggested that Amanda was addicted to twitter, and I wrote on here that I didn't think she was, that I thought she was addicted to the connection that she was feeling from it (back when she only had 13,000 friends). I wrote as a reply, that twitter for Amanda was her way to reach her hand into the darkness and find 13,000 pairs of hands reaching back to hold hers. She replied to my post and said that's exactly it.


So for you, as a fan, as a consumer (as you purchase music or you at least consume it by listening to it), the music is important. You wouldn't listen to Amanda or anyone else if the songs were not your cup of tea. If Amanda starts to put out political records that you don't agree with, or starts to decrease the quality of music you'll probably stop listening and move on to a more meaningful band/musician. Or maybe you won't, maybe you'll be loyal to Amanda and buy/consume every and anything she releases. If so, you're choosing the connection over the art. You're choosing the memory of the brilliant art (before its quality declined) over the reality of the current quality.

Music... is my life. I'm an extremely loyal fan to my favorite musicians. When I was in college, I had a radio show and it was my way of expressing myself through other people's music, promoting artists that meant a lot to me that needed the airplay, it was my way of connecting not to the artists/musicians I interviewed, but with the fans that tuned in - to the people that supported what I was doing. Now, just because I'm heavily into the music that matters to me, doesn't mean that I don't have connections in real life, that I don't have family or friends to reach out to. In fact, I'm fortunate enough to have a twin sister who loves the bands that mean the most to me too, so I have that extra bonus. So I know a lot about The Dresden Dolls, Ours, Dredg, Weezer etc. but there are also bands that I love and listen to that aren't so public - with their fans or just generally on the net - and there's bands I listen to that I love but I can't tell you anything other than information about the cd. The point is, we -as fans and as individuals - digest music in different ways. I'm curious though about why you're on the Shadowbox. Why post on a forum if you didn't seek some sort of connection to the band or to the band's fans? I don't think it's always a conscious decision, and I don't believe "connection" exclusively refers to becoming friends with other fans or feeling a personal relationship to the artist. I think connection can even be something as simple as knowing important information about the next record, about being on the newsletter, about enjoying songs for more reasons then because it sounds good or the singer has a nice voice.

[Graham]

For me, the music is part of the connection between me as a fan and Amanda as a performer. But the rest is important to me, too. I'd still listen to the albums if she stopped twittering and blogging, but the non-music interactions add new depth to how I feel about them all the time, and knowing that she's out there spreading the love makes her so much more real.

---------------------


100% agree!

[byetscrewmamm]

  ask neil about his pal cory doctorow and the invention of new business models. the internet has forced media into a corner; its fight or friend up.  what drew me initially to amanda and brian was that quirky coin operated boy song, i didn't have access to media at the time, but later on the webs i got hooked on them.  the net downloads fed my addiction and i throw cash at them for tangible copies of their art. i make about 700 bucks a month, i'm living in the time rich, money poor side of this equation. this, lets call it addiction model, of marketing works when it works. it might work for heap. she has my add attention span to wow me.
p.s. wtf is up with all these slapass grinny emoticons in the middle of my screen?
s

[insignifikunt]

I guess part of the problem is that I can't read more than 1 paragraph into a Bob Lefsetz commentary, without feeling utterly repulsed. So I can never read it to the end.
There's a lot of music out there, and a lot of it not only gets listened to, but it get "used" like in bars, and DJ events. And the idea that the ONLY way music-makers can get payed for their work, is to create a personality cult around themselves, pretty much grosses me out. Have we gone off the deep end ? There's plenty of good music that we enjoy every day, that doesn't involve a cultish "connection between the artist and the fans". NOT that I'm against this kind of connection, and of course it's nothing new. But it shouldn't be that someone will only buy a piece of music, if they see pictures, and read the blog, and hear the life story of an artist ..and of course, that they like what they SEE.
Again, nothing new there, but if we completely acquiesce to this, we're saying - it just comes down to image and marketing, and that's all

Do you honestly believe that anyone only buys Amanda's music because of the connection she has with fans? I highly doubt that. I bought her music because I thought it was amazing, I didn't know she connected with fans the way she did until after I bought the music and familiarised myself with it and how she does things. In fact it was probably well over a year into listening to the Dresden Dolls before I even seeked any information out about them.

To me music is number 1. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that she is so connected with fans and I feel very lucky to have discovered an artist such as her as I am sure everyone here is, but I listen to some artists that have never blogged, or tweeted or don't even really have a website. I started listening to music before the massive explosion of the internet where you had to join a physical mailing list and read street press to know when an artist was touring. You even had to CALL the ticketing company or line up of you wanted tickets!

I feel incredibly spoilt by Amanda because I think she is the most connected with fans than any other artist. Imogen is another great example, and I may be wrong about this, but does she stay at fans houses when on tour? I know that is a way Amanda saves money, but it also shows respect she has for her fans, and faith that they aren't some psycho fuckers who will do something bad to her.

I have mixed feels about being this spoilt because no other artist I listen to does this. I follow people on twitter with half the amount of followers Amanda has who have NEVER replied to anyone saying they get too many @ replies but they get only a fraction of those Amanda gets. So in a way I came to expect that if Amanda does it everyone should but I know it's not the case. For some it is ALL about the music and fans are there to be thanked from the stage after a show or in one line of the thanks you's in a CD booklet but nothing else. Part of me doesn't understand that because without fans they'd all be no where, on matter how much a label pumps into them fans are still needed for success, but another part of me does understand it, they obviously just do it for the music and I know ever artist appreciates their fans, but some just have different ways of showing that appreciation.

Oh and St. Martin Bisi, I don't know about where you're from, but here in Australia if a bar plays your song, you do get paid for it. They pay a blanket license to APRA and submit all the music they play and then the money they paid to APRA get's divided out to the artists on those lists. The same is supposed to happen with DJs, they are meant to submit their playlist to APRA and the royalties are meant to be distributed based on that. This is not full proof because a lot of venues and most DJs are lazy so it means they just pay those who are popular at the time even if they were never played in a that venue.

[Hayley Fiasco!]

Bob just sent another letter from Amanda:

More from Amanda

From: Amanda Palmer
Subject: dude
Date: August 15, 2009 5:57:25 PM MDT
To: bob@lefsetz.com

if asked....how does twitter actually make you money?

well it just saved me at least a couple grand in hotel and piano rental bills.

imogen heap and i ended up DMing each other b/c of your post and she offered me & neil her apartment (with piano!) for two weeks
in central london while i'm there gigging and filming next month.

thanks bob/thanks twitter.

you rock
XXXXXa

[Hayley Fiasco!]

Bob mentioned Amanda in his weekly chart round ups in his comment about Imogen. Thought it was interesting but didn't deserve it's own thread so I'm bumping this one since it's relevant:

Sales-Week Ending 10/4/09

135. Imogen Heap "Ellipse"

Sales this week: 3,928
Percentage change: -14
Weeks on: 6
Cume: 86,508

I'm saying she would have been better off monetizing her social media activities a la Amanda Palmer than taking all that time to make a record for the major label.  Working for herself in her own studio would generate a ton of coin in record sales, working for the man, it does not.